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Dublin: 6 °C Tuesday 18 June, 2013

Column: This wasn’t the Middle Ages, Bishop Kirby, it was the 1990s

Lisa McInerney asks why, if a senior member of the Catholic Church thought paedophilia was ‘crossing the line in friendship’, does the same Church think it can guide people on how to love and who to marry?

Lisa McInerney

BISHOP OF CLONFERT Dr John Kirby apologised this week in an interview on Galway Bay FM for moving two priests from one parish to another after they abused children.

An apology is always a positive move; Kirby expressed his “profound” regret at his actions and, at the very least, acknowledged that his part in the crime only exacerbated the culture of abuse and cover-up in the Irish Church and prolonged the misery for the affected children. But let’s not be too quick to commend his admitting he was wrong. His attempts at explaining his actions were baffling, at best.

Dr Kirby explained that at the time, he did not understand that his failure to protect these children would have devastating consequences, because he thought that paedophilia was “friendship that crossed a boundary line”.

The idea that a learned adult in a position of authority couldn’t understand the ramifications of paedophilia is incredibly far-fetched. Bear in mind that we’re not talking about a young clergyman fresh from the seminary, or someone from a secluded order who hadn’t seen the outside of his monastery since the orphanage left him at the gate, but an experienced, respected man who had, presumably through hard work and some semblance of intelligent thought, risen through the ranks of his vocation to reach a position of some influence. Also bear in mind that this didn’t take place in the Middle Ages; Dr Kirby facilitated the transfer of these priests in the ‘90s.

“That rational adults couldn’t fathom the havoc wreaked by paedophiles is nonsensical”

“[In] the mood of the time, very little was known about the insidiousness and the compulsiveness of child sexual abuse… I think that was true not only in the church, but in society at large,” said Dr Kirby, which again is a rather baffling statement. Ireland is an island, it’s true, but to suggest that otherwise rational adults couldn’t then fathom the havoc wreaked by paedophiles is completely nonsensical.

Why, a whole decade earlier, the world noted the hysteria surrounding mass allegations child sexual abuse in day care centres in the US. As a preteen in the ’90s, I remember checking out from my local, rural library YA novels clearly influenced by that moral panic. If I, at twelve years old, knew that sexual abuse was a terrible crime, it’s unfathomable that Dr Kirby wouldn’t have copped that it was much more insidious than crossing the line in friendship.

But it’s not difficult to see what’s going on here.

Dr Kirby is trying to excuse his failure by claiming that he just didn’t know any better. The word “excuse” is provocative on my part, granted; Dr Kirby did apologise profusely and didn’t place the blame on anyone but himself… overtly, at least. Instead, he framed his apology in a non-existent social context: that no one was aware just how much damage child sexual abuse could do.

That is nonsense. It is intended to share the blame that, in this particular case, is his alone.

“Much to his dismay, the predatory priests re-offended”

But we do have the option to take Dr Kirby at his word, no matter how irrational his excuses. We can suppose that Dr Kirby genuinely wasn’t aware of the ramifications of child sex abuse. He claims to have thought of it as friendship that overstepped its boundaries – a definition that insinuates that the child took an equal part, perhaps by being over-familiar and giving the adult priest the wrong signals. So he moved the misbehaving priests to another parish, where he could only hope there were no alluring minors. Much to his dismay, the predatory priests re-offended, so Dr Kirby reluctantly realised that the nature of paedophilia is rather more dangerous than he had thought.

In this scenario, the only crime of Dr Kirby, learned figure of authority, is that he was astoundingly stupid.

Can we forgive a man for being astoundingly stupid?

Can we believe that Dr Kirby was merely astoundingly stupid?

The clergy are obliged to remain celibate, and so perhaps Dr Kirby is asking us to consider that individuals within the Church really regularly underestimate the gulf between healthy sexual behaviour and deviant sexual behaviour. That they were, at the time, widely unable to tell the difference between friendship that became improper and the process of destroying an innocent child’s life.

Are we to treat the clergy as innocents? Are we to assume that neither the predatory elements within the Church nor their administrative superiors know how sexuality is expressed, know what sexuality is, know the power of an abusive adult over a tiny child?

“Isn’t this the Church that still assumes to tell people how and who to love?”

But isn’t this the Church that still assumes to tell people how to love, who to love, who to marry, and how to express their sexual identity? Isn’t this the same Church that owns the vast majority of the primary schools in Ireland, whose bishops act as patrons for the schools within their diocese? Isn’t this the Church that claims gay marriage is a threat to society and adults taking control of their own fertility is an affront to God?

Dr John Kirby, in explaining his failure to protect children from criminals, claims not to have understood the difference between right and wrong. And yet he represents spiritual authority.

So is Dr John Kirby – and, in turn, the Church he represents – all-knowing, or know-nothing? Or does he intend on alternating both hypotheses depending on which end of the accusatory pointed finger he finds himself?

How many more times do we need to examine the underbelly of this land’s biggest and most important church, only to discover that the organisation, and all its works, and all its promises, is as hollow as this bishop’s half-arsed apology?

Read previous columns on TheJournal.ie by Lisa McInerney >

  • Connect counselling is available to provide free telephone-based counselling and support to anyone distressed by the Child Safeguarding audits published this week. You can call Connect from 6-10pm, Wednesday to Sunday. Call freephone 1800 477 477 from the Republic of Ireland and 00800 477 477 77 from Northern Ireland and the UK.

Connect was established at the request of survivor groups to provide out-of-hours phone counselling and support service to people who have suffered abuse and is funded by the HSE.

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Comments (75 Comments)

  • Dr John Kirby, in explaining his failure to protect children from criminals, claims not to have understood the difference between right and wrong. And yet he represents spiritual authority. ….unbelieveable statement:(:(

    Reply
  • What a complete IDIOT this man is making himself out to be.
    Trying to dig himself out of a hole.
    Resign immediately as you are as much to blame as the perpetrators of this vile crime against our most vulnerable.

    Reply
    • Unfortunately he could say aliens told him to handle it like that and he would still get away with it. He knows he can’t be touched and he only has to please the local old folks who still go to mass as there are his day to day bread and butter. I know they say respect your elders but it’s hard to respect people who still go to mass dropping money into a basket to pay the bills of child molesters and the people who protect them

      Reply
    • Margaret, this excuse of a man failed to deal with pervert priests in the 90′s and you call this revelation church bashing? are you for real?

      Reply
  • A mate borrowing your golf shoes and not returning them is ” crossing the line in friendship” not the systematic rape and abuse of children. And the for this criminal to merely move the pedophiles to another area to do the same is nearly as bad as the crime itself.

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  • Thou shall no lie…..

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  • But what do you expect Lisa? Demonise women for thousands of years ‘Woman you are the gateway to the devil’ etc (see any amount of early church papas) Destroy the natural delight & desire men & women have for each other, Demand obedience through fear, Deny and distort (via dogma) the simple gospel message “do-as-you-would be done by” and Hey Presto you have the Catholic Church in all its present putridness….or is that putridity? Anyhow it’s dying now…so all this guff from Bishops, Oh if only we’d known! Oh we’re so sorry! Oh those poor children how could we! is utterly meaningless. The damage has been done and the Church as-we-knew-it is over caput finis.

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    • Here here, I completely agree. The rampant mysoginism of the Church has served to damage not on our women but our men and children also.

      My ears nearly fell off when I heard the words “friendship that crosses a boundary”. The Church holds itself out as a moral compass and accordingly should be condemned in the same fashion that it has condemned others for hundreds of years.

      This comment cannot be described as naive, ill informed or plain stupid. It is far, far worse than that, it is evil.

      In allowing and facilitating these heinous acts against our most innocent an beautiful members of society, we find instead in the Catholic Church the evil that we are supposed to be sheltered from by our belief in the Good and the Divine.

      Reply
    • Amen!

      Reply
  • Isn’t there a statute about the conspiracy to pervert the course of justice?

    Reply
  • The catholic church in ireland are almost finished putting their assets in trusts and beyond the reach of any compensation orders to victims. As the song says “it’s all about the money money”. Many good priests led by monsters.

    Reply
  • peter 07/09/12 #

    Should be charged. Simple as that. Ignorance is not a defence anyone else can rely on

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  • Brady – things were different in 1975
    Kirby – things were different in the 90′s
    Yet amazingly the church had the foresight to take insurance out back in 1987 against anticipated future legal actions due to the criminal abuse they were aware was happening.
    Liars the lot of them.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0906/1224323653117.html

    Reply
  • A Man who think Peadophiles are just over Friendly. Has No moral and should dismissed from his post by the church. He has no morals and is cover-up for peado’s by saying this. Disgusting Person. Who is of a low moral character. Maybe he should be interviewed by gardia and a mental health team.

    Reply
  • Well said. It is simply not credible that a man in his position and with his background should be so naive as regards paedophilia. Of course, he should resign. Will he? No.

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  • Sicko – an organization without a moral ounce in it – people who cant relate to the real world – makes me sick. It’s about time the catholic church ended and the good guys setup their new church. How any good priest can remain in such an organization amazes me. Christ is sick of those who use his name and not his teachings

    Reply
  • It wont end until we stop refering to them as Bishop this and Cardinal that and Pope d’udder…give then Mr at most…and dispel the clouds of mystique these Mass-hypnotists wrap themselves in.

    Ground the sky-pilots…this IS the next life. Live with it. We are not just dealing with mass-hypnosis..it is also mass-psychosis…the collective mind of the INSTITUTION is pathologically sick on its own power and delusion of moral superiority. Nazism was a similar mass-delusion of superiority based on the superstitious pseudo-science of 19th century ‘racial’ genetics spliced to pragmatic pursuit of power.
    This one traces itself back through the primitive priestcrafts of ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, child-sacrificing appeasment of the wrathful Judaic tribal deities, and the ritualised canibalism of its ‘communion’ which is a perversion of the originators injunction to split a meal and bottle of plonk in his name if you really want to commemorate him. But then he was a heretic too…but the precursing Sanhedrin heirarchy couldn’t find the matches. If Jesus hadn’t arrived until the 14th century he’d have got a warmer welcome…after the Inquisitors had extracted the sacramental confession. Ultimately religion remains a propaganda tool for social control..though many honest and decent people buy into it because, as the wily Jesuits realised…once ya get them young..they’re yours for eternity.

    Reply
  • Who will rid us of these turbulent priests ?
    Women stop baptising your kids,you’re keeping this absurd ‘relegion’ going !

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    • Thank you! I agree wholeheartedly with you David Holbrook. Wake up people and stop baptising your kids. (although I’m not sure why you think it needs to be aimed solely at women?) You’re allowing them to continue, ensuring their longevity by giving them control of your children. They have no power without you. Take it back.
      Stop. Just think for a little while and realise that you do not want to associate your child with an organisation like this.
      So many posters here are heralding the death of the RCC, but that is premature I fear. The same people who are complaining about them are Still baptising, communing and confirming their kids. Wake up and see you’re own part in this.

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    • Why just address that at women? The most conservative Catholics I know are all men.

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  • Well written

    Reply
    • Well written? It’s just another story bashing the church. It seems that there is more of this on journal than actual news stories. It’s very easy to keep writing one sided columns which are merely a soapbox for someone who isn’t a journalist. The real skill would be to write a two sided or even impartial piece rather than another witch hunt story which only results in a lot of people slagging each other off. The journal.ie is blatantly only looking for reactions and just keeps churning out these badly written columns. If you want to improve the standard of your reading material then it may be time to buy The Sun newspaper.

      Reply
    • Two-sided? If you think there’s another side to this story then I hope you are never given responsibility for children.
      Here’s the impartial version of that story.
      This man facilitated child abuse, protected the abusers and his excuse is that he didn’t know any better. How can we trust what he has to say on matters of sexuality?
      Now give us the other side that you’re so sure exists.

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    • Margaret, if you can think of another side to this story I would be fascinated. There is only so much church bashing journalists can do, Bishops like Kirby are doing an excellent job of bashing the church all by themselves (pardon the coincidental euphemism).

      Reply
    • the church deserves to be bashed. its a cancer on society.

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    • Margaret,
      I’m sure if yourself or bishop Kirby or even cardinal Brady want to ensure the two sides are heard the Journal would be more than willing to facilitate you.
      I eagerly await your column.

      Reply
    • Niall 07/09/12 #

      Margaret its hard to believe you are being serious yet I know you are. That’s the frightening part. How you can even type out that crazy opinion is beyond me. Kirby belongs in jail for what he facilitated. Wake up.

      Reply
    • Margaret, non- consensual buggery of boys and the rape of girls is something worse than crossing the line of friendship.h

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  • When exactly did the bishop realise that it crossed a line? Presumably he realised before he was caught in the middle of a scandal and if he claims not to have, well then im afraid he is simply a liar. Did he one day have a revelation and if so, why did he not come forward having realised the severity of the situation? Criminal charges would be right and proper if the dpp found that he had attempted to pervert the course of justice.

    Reply
  • I think it is important to remember that this man believes in the virgin birth and transsubstantiation. His capacity for self delision is perhaps limitless. Great article Lisa!

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    • Rubbish article
      I hold no brief for the hierarchy or the appalling way they handled things but this article is as self serving, biased & delusional as anything the bishops have come out with in years.

      Reply
    • Which part, specifically, is any of those things? Self serving? How do you figure?

      If by self serving you mean that this article may contribute to pressure for the Bishop Kirby to resign then I thank the author for serving us all by ridding us of someone who is either accidentally or willfully incompetent and did, by his own admission, put children at risk.

      Reply
  • One question is “what boundary was crossed?” At what stage, in Dr Kirbys opinion does a relationship between a minor/child and a religious superior/adult, initially founded on trust, become inappropriate?
    Presumably when it is discovered and can no longer be sustained.
    One can presume that such “friendships” may have been the norm.
    I am reminded of Padraic Pearse’s poems, ( a teacher at the time and a trusted adult authority figure), that is, his poems about the “sweet kisses of young .
    I am also reminded of the “values ” of Pearse and his colleagues being drilled in to me by the Christian Brothers.

    Reply
  • Amazes me how there are so many defending him. Is it yet again a case that catholics cannot see hurt caused by this and think ever divine priest should be protected. And would they be so quick to thumbs down if it was one of their own children who had been raped and humiliated leaving scars so deep they would never forget. The catholic faith helps me further to lose faith in humanity on a daily basis. The faith which is built on the words’love thy neighbour’ is based on hatred for their ‘neighbours’ these days

    Reply
    • I agree with you also David. Would all the priest defenders be so quick to defend if it was priests of another religion even?

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    • Those who suggest that getting rid of the catholic church will rid the country of child abuse are confused. The Catholic church stepped in to help when others failed with orphanages etc. The children seeking predators will just infiltrate elsewhere. The problem is bigger than what happened in the Catholic institutions.

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    • Who failed? The state in the 1950’s and 60′s? The sate that had a “special relationship” with the catholic church?

      I agree that gettingrid of the church won’t remove child abuse, nor would i want to get rid of the church. People have a right to religion. But its pervie should be just that, religion. Not education, not medicine, not politics.

      The church had and still does have the delusion of having a higher moral authority than the law. As long as they maintain that attitude they place themselves beyond the reach of justice, claiming to be answerable to their own (canon) law, which is appalling in a modern society.

      The church was in a unique position to stop these people and not only did they fail to stop them, they protected and facilitated them. It’s shameful. Every person working with a child or vulnerable adult these days is vetted, are applicants or the priesthood vetted? What do they do if the report shows anything up? Absolve the man and welcome him with open arms?

      Reply
    • Sorry about the appalling spelling & grammar there. It’s hard to type something that long on a phone!

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    • “The Catholic church stepped in to help when others failed with orphanages etc.”

      And Tomnewman.org they did SUCH a good job of that, didn’t they with the regimes of physical, mental and sexual abuse, child labour and no education.

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    • Nobody suggested getting rod of the church

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  • moving to another parish?????? JAIL !!!! This catholic church is watching its downfall now! About time….

    Reply
  • Tony 07/09/12 #

    Fight fire with fire quote Matthew 18: 1-7a “Jesus said… but whoever shall mislead one of these little ones who believe in me , it were better for him that a millstone were hung around his neck And that he were drowned in the depth of the sea” . Let the bastards drown by the teachings of their Christ

    Reply
  • Wait a minute….. this man actually has a doctorate. Heaven help us.

    Reply
  • The man seems to be implying that the children are culpable in what happened to them . after all takes two to cultivate a friendship . But these were never friendships . They were instead a method of grooming children for abuse. Only a pedophile would claim it was friendship gone wrong maybe he is one too . It’s extremely possible that a number of the church hierarchy are pedophiles , would explain the cover up

    Reply
  • Just wait untill the unfortunate people in the missionaries find their voice. That is some playing field for a dedicated paedophile.
    ….more to come.

    Reply
  • great article, Lisa,
    Antoinette

    Reply
  • Just shows what confession is all about in the RCC.

    If he can tell porkys with impunity, then the rest of his flock should follow his example.

    Does the man think we are all fools.

    Reply
  • This mans excuses just don’t make any sort of credible sense. He had two priests abusing kids in his diocese, he moved them both to another parish, this happened in 1990 and 1994, it seems he also made two settlements to two victims of sexual abuse in his diocese in the 90′s. The report states that there were five seperate complaints made against one priest alone.
    So, this is a well educated man, a man of some considerable intelect, during the 1990’s in his diocese he dealt with many complaints of sexual abuse against children, some by just one man, a priest. He then negotiated settlements with the victims of some of this abuse, during all this, during the five complaints against one man, the settlements and the complaints against the other priest if he didn’t know much about pedophilia he would have damn well had a crash course. As the man in charge, an educated man he would have made it his business to know all about pedophilia, or he would have been told all he needed to know by advisers. To say now, oopps he thought it was “friendship that crossed a boundry line” is bullshit.
    He and the organisation he represents have absolutely no credibility in this, they knowingly allowed children to be sexually abused and then bought their silence. It really disturbs me that the church claim to bastions of morality in this country, something I see nothing of in how they treat others and in their history, they’ll now presume to lecture us on gay marraige and abortion. Morality. Something they know very little of.

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  • The definition of bishops in Ireland .The blind leading the blind.

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  • Oops!
    “Sweet kisses of young boys”

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  • Tony;
    It has to be remembered that, one has to be a priest, before one becomes a bishop, cardinal or pope. So, whatever vices you have, you take them with you to your new post.

    Reply
  • Greetings people!
    God here, I just want to take a little time to comment on this abuse thing…
    So some repressed and heavily deluded types are running amuck with your children.. Don’t look at me, I didn’t create this church racket ok.. You did that all by yourselves and YOU are responsible for this “Church” and what you allow it to do… dumb asses
    Look… I created this Heavenly playground HERE for YOU to enjoy and explore NOW.. ITS YOURS… but some smart ass gangsters or church as you call it, have made you believe that having fun and enjoying yourself is somehow bad, so you are only allowed into the shitty sand box area, without buckets or spades if you don’t mind… The best rides in the playground are VIP access only, and by working for the gangsters you may earn VIP access when you DIE…. While they get to play with all the best rollercoasters and waterparks my divine mind can conceive of… I created this safe heavenly park for YOU to grow and develop into the divine beings you will become. These gangsters don’t believe in divinity or the sole or your divine potential.. They just see a hole load of opportunity to make money and play the king by convincing you that this divine playground is actually a plot by some Satan dude to distract us from our duty to suffer and toil…it’s like “Nooo happiness and joy are a mugs game.. Suffering and Toil… now that’s where the REAL fun is”… I mean seriously guys.. Really??? A priest has to believe that he is somehow more divine than normal people, his stance is to patronize people. By going to mass you assume you are less human than he.. or he is somehow a divine being and we lesser humans are unwashed savages.
    It’s all there for you.. whenever you’ve had enough of your sadist fantasy.. Come enjoy, learn, grow, develop.. LIVE.. for CHRIST’S sake if you must, but better for the sake of your own blessed sole.

    Reply
  • Send in the American Army toarrest all in the Fatican. Remove them to some island prison and redistribute the enormous Fatican wealth.
    Flatten the entire area and redevelope as a huge theme park. A different kind of theme park than the one that is currently there. popemobile rollercoasters, cardinal waterslides, bishopwaltzers and jesuswhirlygigs.

    Reply

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