Files were sent to the DPP???…don’t make me laugh…they STILL haven’t prepared a file on that solicitor Lynn (not sure if that’s his name )…we’ll be waiting a long time for anything from the DPP…bloody joke!!!..

Come the next budget you will see a huge cut in welfare payments coupled with a reduction in the mimium wage. This will help IBEC and co but be of no help to ordinary workers who will become like the comrades in Germany nothing more than wage slaves

well with the mess him and his friends got us in while they were cashing in and the mess the current government are continuing to pile on us, some vouchers would be nice…………….but I think they’re called food stamps.

Dear Michael,

I’m sorry, but I cannot forgot the destruction that you and your party wrought on this country. You were a cabinet member during this time. Your pathetic apology was not enough, you need to accept the consequences of your failure. You are very lucky that our legal system is incapable of putting you and your collaborators in jail, where you belong. Do the decent thing and spare us your attempts to restore your credibility. In spite of some of the comments above, you will never be trusted by the Irish people again.

Goodbye.

@Mark: Yeah p27 of the document refers to a vouchers scheme similar to the German Hertz Refoms. What are you asking about them?

If only the press was like that

Eh ‘minister’?

It’s meant as a little dig ;-)

Ok, I agree with him. He’s right.

But I still want him to show me he’s serious about cleaning up his party and go after the 50k.

All files were sent to the DPP & I’m pretty sure it’d be inappropriate to seek the donation back until after the DPP has made its ruling.

lovely stuff Susie. That’s the sort of constructive attitude that’s going to get the country moving.

I’ve read this report and I actually think there are a lot of really good ideas in here. The total cost is very modest – cE50M. Micheal Martin isn’t trying to make this a party political thing – it’s interesting / depressing that the usual suspects appear on here to try and make party political points.

Ok Seamus
Tell me then Why Fianna fail are supporting the ”yes” campaign in the european Fiscal Treaty ? IF they are serious about job creation why are they supporting indefinite austerity?

Martin had 22 years in the dail to make a difference – half that as minister. Sh1t or get off the pot. Time for him to parachute off into the gilt edged wilderness

Well said Susie I sent him a tip/correction saying I’ll be voting NO at the end of the month.

Yes booooo to austerity. Vote no so we can have a huge ever increasing national debt for our children

@Gerard. That’s what will happen if we vote yes and let Inda/Martin gorge themselves in the ESM trough. Vote No and end the madness. We already owe 173B euro – 40k per man woman and child. Inda wants to finger the ESM for another 60B minimum. How the hell are we ever going to pay that back. Lunacy

Look I will be voting NO for my childrens futures . I am going with what I trust my ability to read situations and between the lines . vOTE no .

Since you ask Susie, I don’t know about Micheal Martin, but I’m voting Yes precisely because I want my nephews and nieces to have a future in this country (I don’t have children).

Another word for the ‘austerity’ you talk about is ‘balancing the books’. Getting the public finances back into shape won’t fix everything, but it’s part of the equation. THere needs to be investment and job creation as well.

But that is medium term. What a lot of No campaigners ignore is the fact that in less than TWO YEARS we need to get finance from somewhere. This Treaty means we get it at cost price from the ESM fund. If you have somewhere that is as certain and as good / better cost, let me know where it is and I’ll consider voting ‘No’ as well.

Something tells me I’ve already spent too long responding to your hate.

Seamus
Firstly , I will address your accusation of ”hate”.
I do not hate .
Can I take from your comments that you agree with the exhorbitant salaries and allowances of our curent and retired politicians . Do you work yourself ? and if so I reckon like most decent people you believe in a fair wage for a job well done . If this is the case then I do not understand how you can approve of the last governments failures and desperately poor efforts at managing our nations affairs.
You obviously have very strongly held beliefs so I will not take up any more of my time feeding your own hatred towards anything new or innovative .
However I do have children who were educated to a very high level and I believe truely and unashamedly that the only way forward is to vote NO.
You have a good day, and I hope that in time you will realise that anyone who is in opposition to your own simply held views is not full of hate , but are voicing their own strongly held views. There is more to life than money …

Susie, I welcome your more conciliatory tone. It certainly beats your ‘Shut the F**K up’ which started the thread.

To answer your specific questions, yes I am lucky to have a good paying job. And no, I don’t support extortionate benefits for any former politicians or anyone else.

If the referendum were about that, I’d vote No.

But it isn’t, and I suspect you know that.

Tell me please . Seamus what you believe the referendum is about ?
I believe it is all about austerity and there is no escaping it . But that does not mean we have to sign up to permanent austerity…. I really wish I could convince you how enthusiastic I feel for our future and the future of our nation if this referendum is rejected. It will be tough in the short term , difficult even, but it will be worth it. Please if you have not read the Fiscal Treaty , then please do so, or read it again with an open heart if you have read it . I am seriously an ordinary person who , due to these extra ordinary times feel very strongly to go against every thing I grew up believing about our political parties and regime. … We can not do any worse than what we have already been through .

Seamus @
So if we all vote yes and this treaty is passed , where are we going to get the extra 6 billion euros on top of what we will already have to pay …. That is an extra 3600 euros per household every year the house hold tax x36 . I can not afford that nor can many others afford that money. The fianna fail party and FG are one and the same now and Labour pfft …. No will remain my vote. I am sorry if you believe that I am more conciliatory <maybe I am , but I am no push over ….

Eileen and Susie, what do I believe this treaty is about?

Simply put, I believe it is about strengthening a series of rules on balanced budgets that we have ALREADY AGREED TO in various other treaties.

Passing it will also get us access to the ESM fund IF we need it.

Re the alleged 6 Billion extra that we would need after 2015. This is a lie. So almost impossible to argue against.

But Jayney, I’ll still try. Deficit can be fixed in three ways – economic growth, ‘austerity’ and more efficiency. This stupid 6 Billion argument assumes that there will be NO growth between now and then and Zero improvement in efficiency.

3 eminent economists – Whelan, Coffey and McHale have all agreed that it is bullshit. No addtional significant adjustment will be needed to get to a target WE HAVE ALREADY AGREED TO!

Seamus, your last comment is reminiscent of the “We have turned a corner” line we heard so many times in the last 4 years. You are so sure that the economy is going to grow by the level you suggest between now and 2015 is off the mark at best and nuts at worst. So long as the Irish people know that they are continuing to carry an unsustainable level of National debt, and are being managed to a metric set out by Germany (who was the first country in Europe to break the same budget rules layed out in the Maastricht treaty is crazy. Germany sets rules for Europe to suit its own interests at any given time. Unfortunately, right now, is not a good time for Ireland to try and meet Germanys new rules. We need flexibility to raise capital for infrastructure improvements to start the growth cycle moving in an upwards cycle. Germanys new enforced restrictions means we cannot do this. This is just wrong. Germany/France have suddenly realised that they cant continue along this path (the US and the Chinese have told them, either start growing or we will cut you off). That is the reason that neither country has ratified the treaty. They know its dead in the water even before they proceed. They are going to engage in a new treaty, which supports growth. In the meantime, by voting YES, Ireland will have written into its constitution we must balance our books… How crazy is that. Every other country in Europe will start to grow, while Irelands economy will continue to contract.

Cal, that is a fallacy. There is scope written into the treaty itself for any country to go outside the limits in order to provide for the very investment you speak of once agreed upon by the European partners (and that goes for all, from Germany to Malta). Also I can’t understand the No side that seem to put forward the idea that other countries are going to come up with a treaty on growth. Think about that practically……..how would a “treaty promoting growth” work? Is it even needed? I mean seriously, which is the country in the Eurozone that actively doesn’t want their economy to grow that we’ll have to pin down with a treaty? Yes, there is need for a growth stimulus package but that is separate to the Fiscal Rules that will help guide countries to not over heat their economies in future. Finally Cal, as regards growth, the OECD today forecast Ireland’s economy to grow 0.6% this year and 2.1% in 2013. So, not that insane to say we’re on the path to growth after all. This is mainly down to our strong export market at present and in particular areas such as pharmaceuticals, technology and services.

In summary, vote yes and you will get austerity. Vote no and you will get austerity. The main difference is what happens after the austerity, how severe it will be, how long it will take and how much it will cost to fund ourselves in the medium term. It’s a Yes for me!

Eoin A
and that is why I will be voting NO in the referendum… You see Austerity is inevitable , but I do not want it signed into our constitution. If that happens it will not matter who we vote into government ever again …They will have to abide by the rules.

Yeah, fair point Ryan. At least it’s constructive criticism.
Pp7-8 of the National Plan for Youth Unemployment document (http://scr.bi/KE1pSU) relates specifically to cost.

I generally hate when people throw links at me instead of answering the question specifically asked, so the general thrust is that it will require a €52m investment but this will be returned with future returns (since we get no returns from those who have emigrated).
It is an interesting document though. Suggest you leaf through it, even if it’s only to point out any potential flaws…(!)

Paul, we only read leaflets from people who haven’t fcuked up the country. Don’t mean to be harsh, but when the leader of a party that has personally overseen the destruction of a thriving economy, caught through multiple tribunals to be rotten to the core, gave bank guarantees to private bankers in other countries, being decimated by electorate in this country, it is really hard to take ANY suggestion from one of the architects of that treason seriously. I hope you understand.

Jobbridge is only open to people who receive welfare. Not all young unemployed people are entitled to it. Some job sectors aren’t very well if at all covered

@Ger: Yeah, it does need to be extended. And in fairness to the Govt, they’ve extended their own schemes now to start taking people who were self-employed or receiving carers’ allowance.
The point of this document is to provide constructive ideas to develop programmes specifically targeting young people.

@Cal: “Don’t mean to be harsh but” you’re an awful peddler of misery so you are… Hope you understand.

@Ryan regarding that statistic of “37% of those who’ve done internships receiving a job out of it” – its a rather selective statistic and only refers to those interns who actually completed the JobBridge scheme. It doesn’t take into account the proportion of interns who don’t complete their internship due to a variety of reasons (economic, poor quality of internship etc).
As reported in the Sunday Times the week previously – there is a dropout rate of up to 75% in the JobBridge internship scheme.
A closer look at the figures (NOT just the “statistics”) will reveal a truer picture…

Here’s a constructive suggestion: Michael could give up his pay and pensions to fund jobs for young people.

After all, it’s the least he could do given his background and history.

Running off into the sunset would have been the easy option for Micheál Martin to take following the last election. Instead of doing what so many others did, Martin actually sought to contest the election despite the overwhelming criticism levelled towards him and is now using his platform as an elected representative to put forward alternative ideas for the government to consider implementing. I respect him for that.

@Greg, i would admire him if he stood up in the Dail and announced that he truly regretted screwing our country over, reneged on his pension and wages, walked out, took O’Dea and O’Cuiv with him and swore never to return. But being FF, he only sees opportuinities to sneak back into power with FFg at the next election. He hopes that if he is a good boy, does nothing to P*ss off Enda and the rest of FFg between now and then, he might get back to the cabinet. Thats what i see… A political opportunist, with no sense of shame.

Sorry Greg I disagree, the only reason Martin didn’t ‘run off’ was because he actually thinks he can do some good…which is funny in so many respects…He seems to not quite get the ENORMOUS MESS he and his party made of our country…YES much and almost all down to decisions they made or failed to make.
He should be banished forever…without his pension…let him sign on…or go on Jobsbridge.

In fairness, he went on national TV and apologised. Saying it over and over again isn’t going to make the facts any different. The clip is on Youtube Cal.

Micheal Martin, like it or not, is just as entitled to sit in the Dáil as any other TD, he’s just as entitled to launch a party policy as any other party leader, and moreover, he’s entitled to be hear for what he has to say now, the same way as the public aren’t really blaming Enda and co for calling for more spending and lower taxes when in opposition.

Attack the idea all you like, but do so on the contents of the scheme. I’m sure you’s take a different approach to the same document were it to be published with a Sinn Féin or ULA front cover, that’s just plain ignorant.

Sometimes the truth is just too damn ugly

What do you mean, Andy? All 56 comments seem fine at this end. Are they not all showing up? Sometimes there’s a bug which means only the 50 most recent comments can be seen through the apps, but that wouldn’t account for only 14 comments being viewable. V strange.

That’s real nice Derek, so…it’s not appropriate to be feeling bitter towards this…man. Jesus any fool can come up with a strategy…especially a fool earning what Martin is earning, a couple of tasty pensions in there as well
See I don’t trust him…with REALLY GOOD REASON, lets not forget. So please don’t belittle how I feel towards this man. His opinion is WORTHLESS.

Except for the facts that a) Hollande is for the Fiscal Compact but wants a growth stimulus to run concurrently with it, and b) the treaty comes into effect once 12 states ratify it regardless of what the others do. There will be a two tier EU after this treaty comes into effect. The main prize being access to cheap funds and the security that will provide going forward. It’s a clear choice in my book.