Best of luck Sharon and I hope you get to make all the right informed choices for you regarding your birth.

So long as you are educated on the effects on your baby of choosing that path, and you are making an informed choice on that basis, best of luck with your choice. See http://chriskresser.com/natural-childbirth-v-epidural-side-effects-and-risks
I knew when I had my baby that if I had an epidural there would statistically be a worse outcome for my baby, but in any event because of him being the wrong way round I had a very long and difficult birth that ended in epidural and caesarean. Because we know that the actual birth through the birth canal is important as it squeezes the fluid out of the baby’s lungs and there is some bacterial thing that happens too, I was upset by my baby missing this vital step. Not to mention the hard recovery from surgery, and my baby being born into bright theatre lights and noise – when their first moment on this earth should not be about searing light after nine months of darkness, noise after being muffled in the womb, and being taken away immediately to be weighed in a cold scales. I still wonder whether I would have had a natural birth if I had been at home with a midwife. It’s obvious that natural birth has worked itself out over thousands of years, but I suppose in the end we all just do our best. Good luck with whatever choices you make for yourself and your baby.

Can I ask genuinely what effect you believe there is in the long-term for babies whose first view of the world is theatre lights?

Exactly the health of the baby should be paramount

No Martina – the health and the baby and mother should be equal.

So if anything did happen you would your own ideas over having a healthy child

Wynner I answered that elsewhere. No, my choices wouldn’t take priority over my baby’s health. I’d have done anything to make sure my baby was born safely. In fact she was breech for a long time and I would have been in the hospital if she had stayed that way.

Yes, it might be arrogant and dangerous. But at the end of the day, you’re the one who will have to live with the consequences. Doctors are more than welcome to strongly recommend a course of action and explain why…but I’m uncomfortable with forcing a mentally competent person to accept medical treatment and violate their bodily integrity.

Sinead, if it were a case where on one side of the scales you had the health of the baby and on the other side the health of the mother then fair enough I’d agree with you.

In this situation however it’s the health of the baby on one side of the scales and the mothers right to “feel empowered” on the other, there’s no contest the health of the child is paramount.

I agree with Nick that ultimately the consequences for the mother are far more serious than for the obstericians involved. She is the one who would have to live with the guilt, and with the practical problems of dealing say, with a child with disabilities or injuries that could have been avoided. It makes no sense that women who resist medical intervention in birth are all doing so just so they can “feel empowered”. It’s possible that some are, and often medical intervention is justified but Irish rates of C-sections etc are extremely high by international standards.

Well said.

Have you looked at what those quoted risks were in that case? And that statistics that actually respond to what the obstetricians were threatening? That woman agreed to the operation but asked to wait one more day for her husband to be present and they sectioned her anyway. Can you imagine the effects of a forced operation like that? Without the support of your partner?

We all want a healthy baby, but I’m not sure how healthy it is to have a parent suffer years of PTSD or PND as a result of the treatment she receives. I would not have emotionally survived that experience, though of course I would have had a section if I was confident my baby would be in danger otherwise. Why be so quick to write that mother off as selfish or stupid?

I don’t know where I said anyone was selfish or stupid but feel free to ignore what was actually said and replace it with your interpretation.
I did read the facts of the case unfortunately and my points still remain the same. 24 hours can be the difference between life and death for that baby. Imagine the guilt, pnd & PTSD if the mother was responsible for the death or ill health of her child because she wanted to was “just” 24 hours

Tom, the rights of the born trumps the unborn. If a woman wants a natural birth, thats up to her to decide. No one should interfere. They can advise and make the woman sign a waiver to the effect that she has gone against medical advice but as its her body and shes the one going through the process of pregnancy and labour, then its HER CHOICE.

I agree…surely everyone wants what’s best for their baby. Whether that’s at home or in the hospital. If there was any risk in childbirth, no matter how small, I think midwives / consultants would try to push towards a hospital birth.

Interesting piece about that here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2013/mar/10/alice-roberts-on-science-childbirth-risks

That happened to me on my second child. He got into distress during the birth and needed to be sectioned. Poor baby ended up in the baby icu for a week.

My sister in law went for a home birth for her first and only child, things went wrong baby got distressed. She was rushed into hospital and had a emergency c-section. Baby spent 2 weeks in ICU having swallowed his poop.

I firmly believe hospital births are in best interest of baby and mother

My husband felt exactly the same as you before he met our midwife to discuss out options. He was always clear that hospital would be an automatic choice if anything changed during our pregnancy. His change in mind set following the birth was astonishing, and I know he would and has recommended home birth now to anyone who is interested.

‘Modern fully equipped and staffed hospital’? We don’t have those in Ireland.

Friend of mines exact the same. Her husband was an anesathist at maternity hospital. Very anti home birth. Post wife’s home birth he changed his practice in hospital. At home you have some control of who is coming and going around you. This for many women is very important.

If we can’t afford home births could we at least have birth centres.

Irish maternity hospitals are dangerous. Operating at way over capacity. For a low risk pregnancy (the majority) home is definitely safer, you get a higher level of care (dedicated midwives) pre, during and after. And it is free!

Nothing is free Emma.

A breech birth is not a straight forward delivery. I’m surprised at any mother who would put first her own preferences over the safety of her baby and any midwife who would facilitate it. The risk of cord prolapse is significantly increased which could lead to oxygen deprivation. In a lot of cases breech presentation is reason enough for a section. To have a home birth for a baby in this position is irresponsible. I’m so glad it went well for you.

The Irish state cannot afford to have an ambulance on standby outside a home where there MAY be a difficulty. Nor can it afford such midwifery care to mothers who wish to have their babies at home. If the state and the HSE wish to endorse and provide for home births for low risk mothers , then a root and branch change would need to occur. The supports like emergency transfer , flying squad obstetrical care , funding of home midwives , and careful evidence based screening protocols for the identification of low risk mothers. If all aspects are not put in place, most women will not qualify for home delivery by virtue of maybe their distance from the nearest maternity unit , the average response time for ambulances in their area etc etc. I think it’s something to aspire to but until a safe plan is constructed , agreed and funded , like in the NHS , we remain in a hospital based set up. Where despite all the problems , it might still be the safer place to take this most precarious of journeys for both mother and baby. It’s far from perfect but it’s all we have.

What I think is really horrible is being forced to lie on your back! What the hell is that about!? That’s the worst position to be in if you’re giving birth, puts extra strain on you and the baby, and can cause not only extra pain but actual damage too.

All because it’s easier for the doctors to see what’s going on. That alone would put me off going to the hospital to give birth.

Sinead
You want your choice which is a home delivery yet you want to get rid of private obstetric care which is a choice for other women?? Where do you get off advocating for your choice and effectively wanting to stop other women having a choice that’s an extremely arrogant view point.
@ Eileen
I think you’ll find only women with epidurals ( again a choice for some) need to lie in bed. Most midwives and obstetricians encourage their women to mobilise use birthing balls ect during labour the choice is the woman’s.
Having read both your posts I had to respond you can’t have choice for one group of women and remove the preference of an other group because it doesn’t fit into your ideal.

And before anyone jumps down my neck I am pro woman’s choice to decide what is best for her and her baby be that home or birthing centre or hospital.

Cliodhna thanks for the clarification, I was a little shocked about that info, although I’ve heard women complain about it.

Your welcome Eleen. It’s all about informed choice and best out come for mom and baby.

Cliodna that’s a fair point (re my comment on private care) , I guess it just comes from private care being the only option actively advertised to mums, especially those on their first child who have to make decisions on how they will birth their child under time pressure (your consultant will be booked up, etc) before they’ve announced their pregnancy and can chat to other parents openly. It was an option we felt we almost ‘had’ to choose if we could afford it. However your point is right and it should be a valid choice people can make.

However I will say one thing – you’re totally wrong on the back position only used for epidural. That absolutely wasn’t the case for me. I was basically put on a trace because my midwife recommended oxytocin to start labour and wanted to monitor the heart rate. At no stage did she say to me that a choice to accept oxytocin would affect my birthing position in that way. In fact talking to many people afterward they were quite surprised oxytocin was offered so early to me. And yes it’s a horrendous position to be in when all you want to do is walk around or shift onto all fours and I couldn’t. I wasn’t even allowed off the bed to use the loo!

I’m a midwife Sinead and bar a woman has an epidural I encourage them to walk, use the birthing ball ect all fours or left lateral are best for deliveries; but I give women the choice as do my colleagues, I’m sorry your experience wasn’t like that.
But you shouldn’t paint all midwives or doctors with the same brush you’d be surprised at how pro women’s choice we can be.

I was in labour for fourteen hours before the decision was made that, given my son was not making a move on his own, and was 10lb 4oz, a c section might be the best route to take. Even at that, the decision was mine to make, no-one coerced me into it, but common sense told me that if I insisted on natural birth, it could lead to my baby becoming distressed. Can we hear from some people who actually feel that they were forced into some sort of treatment that they didnt want(other than the author of this article, obviously) ??

I was in same situation I had spent 20 hours stuck on 3 cm and my now darling 12 yr old is here it could have been so different , she went in to distress, my needs were met the hospital I picked were superb and I went on to gave 2 more kids there

The WHO criticises our RATES of Caeserean sections; not the fact that we do them! They reckon that for 10 to 15% of births, C-section is the safest option. But Irish rates are much higher than this- meaning that some Irish women are having Unnecesereans.
Quality of care should mean approriate care, based on what is best for the individual. Our current regime of medical. interventionist birth for all (except those who are ultra-low risk, live close to a maternity unit and can afford a SECM) is among other things outragously expensive.
This article is about home birth, the right to which I support, but we also need to improve hospital birth for those who don’t have the choice to stay at home eg because they live too far away. Birth is not an medical condition.

Irish women are older, fatter and generally less healthy than women in other countries when they become mothers. This can lead to increased chances of gestational diabetes, high blood pressure and fetal growth problems- all of which can result in increased medical intervention . It’s not by personal choice that any doctor/ midwife recommends an intervention, it is a decision driven by the welfare of mother and baby, based on experience and evidence from the scientific literature.

I always find it so strange how people speak about interventions during labour/delivery as if they are some sort of indulgence of the ‘evil’ obstetricians. Bizarre.

Very well put Joanne!

Indeed Joanne, with the homebirth hippies trying to make out that a woman who undergoes a section or an instrumental delivery has somehow failed. Ludicrous.

Comment of the thread Joanne, I’d rather have a life baby it’s like breast feeding is best but feeding is better… Roll on the red thumbs.

Hang on. I’ve never nor would I ever make a woman out to be a failure for any aspect of her birth. Nor do I know any other women who would. It’s ridiculous to suggest we somehow feel superior for not having intervention. Rather I consider myself lucky and blessed. If intervention had been required then I’d have absolutely wanted whatever it took to deliver my daughters safely to the world. However no intervention is risk free, to either the mother or baby. And unfortunately the medicalisation of birth has resulted in interventions being required where they might not have been in the past. This is not a failure on anyone’s part – either the parents or the healthcare professionals all of whom want the best for the mum and baby – but is perhaps indicative of the society we live in.

From reading your comments I’m glad you were not my midwife cliodhna.

Why?

You have me totally wrong I am very pro breast feeding I am compassionate I am pro women making their own choice in their care and I am not dismissive of anyone but I also have sense of humour forgive me for that.
I accept you may not see that from a few random posts, also I may not have replied to some posts as didn’t go back to articles as I work full time and don’t always have the time.
I believe in skin to skin delayed cord clamping and kangaroo care I wouldn’t leave any baby cry for prolonged periods.
I am a realist life is not perfect and sometimes with the best laid intentions things go wrong and interventions are required.
I can only speak for where I work also.
But thank you for being so interested in my life and what I have to say that you have kept count of things.

With all due respect, if that was the case and they were that concerned, why not just go to their local GP/hospital for a check up? Whilst I don’t want to seem insensitive, I actually find your comment very hard to believe.

It is absolutely true she never measured the bump and so did not notice the lack of growth for a few weeks before of the baby and said their was no need for an ambulance when husband became concerned he eventually called one anyway and baby was still born in hospital it is the subject of a complaint. Baby may have been still born anyway but if she had done her job and noted the lack of growth the birth could have been induced eArly and Baby survive

That sounds to me to be a case of gross medical negligence. That could equally happen in a hospital.

Not really Alain as the woman would be palpated on each visit by a midwife and be scanned at least twice in the ante natal period.

HI Betty Lou,

What happened to your friend is very sad, but any mother who signs up for a home birth, also has to register with a maternity hospital and so your friend would have been measured regularly by hospital midwives also. If the hospital midwives had any concerns they would have changed your friend’s status from low risk to high risk and she would not have been allowed a home birth.

Yes my sister had home birth she had check up with her independent midwife and check ups at the midwifes clinic in her local hospital

Mags that’s exactly what you do. If you want a home birth you organise and pay for it yourself.

Rkmr, to the best of my knowledge, that’s not exactly true. There is (well, was when I was having my girls anyway) a grant available which covers the majority if not all of the midwifery costs, however any additionals like hiring a birthing pool etc are at own expense.

HSE grant provided in most areas. Please get your facts right like I did when I placed my comment.

Lisa is right. You do organise it yourself but there is a grant available. My health insurance also covered some additional costs.

Yes there is a grant available because you have to offer people freedom of choice. My sister got a grant of €1000 she paid €2500 on top if that.

Oh for god’s sake, Mags.

I’m a tax payer. Tax should provide the same general system for all i.e. maternity service in public hospitals. If you want to have a baby at home by your own choice, I don’t expect the tax I have paid to fund grants for home births.

Mags, what if all childless people decided they didnt want their taxes used for funding child care? How would you feel about that?
Id like all pregnant women to make an educated decision for themselves as to where they have their babies. Their bodies, their choices and Im happy to help fund their choices.

Mags
To be fair it probably costs more to have a baby in hospital than at home when you factor in all the costs.
All women should have a choice.

Tommy, I am the proud Mom of two. Not childless as your comments suggests. So no, I am not a bitter childless woman. I had both my children in Drogheda Hospital as a public patient. So I think I have the right to voice my opinion, you may not agree but I work hard and pay tax and would like to think that the tax I am paying will someway go to lowering the debt in Ireland so hopefully my children might have a good future and not be left paying back banks as I along with everyone else is currently doing. I personally think if you want a choice that is outside of the norm that you should be expected to fully fund it yourself.

But Mags your care during pregnancy childbirth and afterwards cost other tax payers more than the grant given these women to have their babies at home their choice just like yours was to go to hospital.
You can’t use my tax my say on how it is spent I’m afraid.
We all have a choice public v private healthcare, home v hospital no one can dictate to an other.

Mags I believe breastfeeding to be the norm as this is how your baby is meant to feed naturally so then that would mean formula feeding to be outside the norm. So does that mean that women should not be given free formula in hospital? After all it’s my tax that pays for it and the vast majority of women are able to breastfeed so why should I have to pay for their choice??

I would have to disagree with you there Danielle. I don’t think your giving Irish women much credit but perhaps it where your working.

I think your right and time we don’t have a lot of that as things are getting busier and being short staffed.

I don’t know Danielle I work in a very busy maternity hospital mind you out of Dublin. There are still women who will insist on lying in bed or push for lscs and won’t try to see how they go without epidurals but you can’t force them.

I wonder how many of the home birth brigade have ever been involved in an obstetric emergency.

Hi Julia could you please provide evidence of this? Thank you

I wonder how many of the home birth brigade have avoided an obstetric emergency by having their baby at home? Common hospital interventions like ARM (breaking the waters) and epidurals actually increase the risk of having to have a Caesarian.

‘The home birth brigade’. This is insulting bullshit, and I’m so sick of it. The home birth brigade are well educated about risks and the necessity of transfer. The head of the Domino scheme herself told my ante natal class that there is no problem that arises druring birth that they can’t see coming two hours before it gets critical, and they transfer very fast.

As to emergencies, my first home birth took a long time – had I been with the Community midwives I would have ended up transferred, induced, and section as a result. This has been confirmed. It would have been an emergency, and everyone would have said, thank god you went to hospital, see? See?

As it was, I had an experienced Midwife attend who monitored the baby’s progress and finally delivered her safe and sound – without intervention.

Read some studies, do some research about what home birth provides – no it’s not for everyone, every woman should give birth where she feels safest, and have the choice to do that without coercion. The hospitals are grossly understaffed and underfunded and I have heard too many women’s horror stories to count. I’m DELIGHTED to hear of women having good hospital experiences, and that’s as it should be. However, it all too often isn’t.

No, homebirth here isn’t perfect, the major issue being lack of choice and resources and co-operation from the HSE and hospitals. Seriously. Do some research, look at other countries and their stats.

Still waiting on Julia’s evidence for these statistics she claims?? Would love to see this Julia

You didn’t read it all, did you?

You really need to read the piece again. Look again.

There is many countries with a higher rate than Ireland. I don’t know where people are getting this false info.

Rkmr the ‘pro-life’ lobby [ie Youth Defence et all] like to push false statistics and sadly many people just lap them up.

Danielle that is both untrue and unfounded. It portray’s Irish women in a very negative way and implies most birthing experience’s in this country are negative and led by doctors not in fact the case. Have you any children yourself?

Martina, all I wanted was to be able to give birth to a healthy child and I felt that the hospital setting actually increased, for me, the risk of tearing, a c-section, trauma. I wanted a midwife who had a single focus on me, not one who was rushing from patient to patient and totally overworked and stressed. I wanted a midwive who would make the best choices for me and my baby, not because hospital policy demanded that a woman have her baby within a certain time frame. i wanted a midwife who would also, if needed, send me into hospital to have appropriate obstetric care. That’s a personal choice and one I was lucky enough to make. I think people who know me would say I was the opposite of selfish or hippy.

Sinead….what would you have done if you needed an emergency C section where every second counts ? I know a lady (who coincidently is a midwife) having her 5th child, all straight forward pregnancies & deliveries. During labour the baby’s condition changed so rapidly that she had to be rushed to theatre for a section under GA. the doctors literally ran as they pushed her bed up to the theatre. There was hardly time for her to sign consent. She would have passed all the criteria for a home birth. My view is if you don’t like the hospital environment then sign yourself out immediately after the birth. Congrats on your baby

Ive had two babies in hospital one nine days overdue one thirteen days over both with the dominos midwifes so came home shortly afterwards and got great care at home.i never felt rushed or that i recieved less care than i should have from any midwife.i would hate to think of the result of one birth if i had thought of myself and opted for a home birth.I put my childrens health before any of my needs or wants

Poppy, that’s a good question and I’m sorry to hear about your friend’s experience and hope she and baby are well now. Yes, the time delay in going for a emergency section is definitely a major factor to consider in having a home birth,but I believe SECMs are much quicker to recognise distress and would transfer as quickly as possible if there was any reason for concern. I balanced up that need vs the concerns about increased rates of sections involved once you enter the hospital setting. I think in many instances hospital interventions actually increase the risks of an emergency section.

I am so grateful I was in hospital for the births of both my children.
On my first he got stuck and had to be delivered by forceps with a room full of doctors, he’s cord blood had to be tested immediately for lack of oxygen, luckily he was perfect but in that situation every minute counted.
On my second, the delivery was much easier, but I bleed a lot and required 2 hrs treatment including stitching.
If I had been at home for either the outcome would have been disastrous.

Sinead what makes them better equipped or quicker off the mark? I find that comment outrageous and insulting to their colleagues who work in hospitals.
I had a great experience in hospital, I didn’t try to micro manage the experience I just wanted my baby safe in my arms. I had no interventions and could move around and do as I pleased. My midwife was brilliant, encouraging, supportive, caring, funny and most of all competent. I had a straightforward, textbook birth that honest to god frightened me with its ease. I had expected, from reading rubbish online that I would be forced into waters being broken, practically tied to a bed with no say in what went on and that I’d end up with tears & cuts(I had neither) but the complete opposite happened. I listened to so much scaremongering beforehand that I realised its no wonder there are interventions with women going to hospital stressed out and prepared for a battle that only exists (at that point) online and in their head. I understand not everyone has such an easy experience but I despise when people say I was “lucky” I wasn’t it was average, because there were 21 other labours that night and 19 others were the same as me.
As for bright lights etc I don’t personally subscribe to low lighting & whale sounds or see how they could help but different strokes etc.

For my 3 pregnancies my midwife only ever left my side to get help/second opinion. She never saw another patient, I was her only focus. And I also allowed student midwives in and they were great.

Sorry Martina I accidentally gave you a green thumb as I was scrolling there. I had no intention of endorsing your dreadful, insulting comment.

Wow karla, 3 pregnancies and each time the midwife stayed with you the entire time and had no other patients?? What hospital was this in? This is not usually what happens.

I was the same I had one midwife who stayed with me all the time, she was amazing, and that was in the Coombe

Limerick, it’s the norm and No I wasn’t private.

Martina, you mention that your experience was through the domino midwives. The philosophy of the domino scheme is a mother-centred, natural birth one. There is very little difference between how the domino midwives practice attending to labouring women and what happens when a woman has a home birth. The main difference is the location. Women who have their babies through the standard hospital policies have very different care and a very different experience. You’re not comparing like with like. There are many, many women who would absolutely love to have domino care in their pregnancies. You were very lucky. Delighted it went so well for you.

Two births in the Rotunda, public care and the midwife never left my side on either except one 5 min break where another stepped in immediately and had a quick chat : )
How do you think it’s not the ‘norm ‘?
How many hospital births have you had ?

It’s an opinion piece… What do you not understand about that?

“Opinion” pieces about health issues require better standards of editorial care than a diatribe against the latest celebrity hairdo or a litany of the perceived failings of a football team.

Hippy ideology is presented here as fact. Poor showing from the Journal.

There is lots of fact, if you have any interest in looking.

Hippy ideology? Doing what your body was designed to do? Doing what women have done for thousands of years without the aid of a full room of doctors and midwives?
Childbirth is THE most natural thing in the world. Whats hippy about doing it outside a hospital?
Significantrisk, sounds like youre jealous of those women who do it without assistance.
Relaxing on your couch or getting into your own bed in your own room after just giving birth sounds very empowering and natural to me.

Julia during my birth in hospital the midwife was not with me all the time, she had other women to look after too. She came occasionally and stayed no longer than 10mins a time. When at home your midwife is there by your side throughout all of your labour. So who is going to notice any compilations quicker? The midwife who is looking after several women and popping in and out of your room or the midwife who is by your side all the time?

My wife found it empowering and so she should! She was amazing and I have more love and respect for that woman since I saw her give birth to my 2 kids.
If you dont find it empowering, dont bother doing it.

What’s your evidence base? The plural of anecdotes is not fact. Happy to discuss factual research and statistics

If the cord is around the babies neck or the head is too large for the pelvis, the baby will get no oxygen and could suffer long term problems. There just is time in this scenario to get to a hospital. It just shows by the number of ‘dislikes’ how emotive this topic is and people in favour of home birth don’t want to listen to another side of the argument at all. As much as hospitals have their downsides, I couldn’t put my baby at that risk.

Up to one third of babies are born with the cord around their neck however it is quite rare that this causes complications.

Any women who has made a choice to have a home birth will have fully investigated what needs to happen if she does need transfer to hospital. She will get all of this information and use it to make the best decision. If it is a case where transfer to hospital will take a long time then probably she would decide against a home birth. As I said at home you have a midwife right there all the time, do you not believe that at the first sight of a problem the midwife will make a decision to transfer to hospital? If anything I would say that secms are even more aware of potential problems and ways to deal with them as they do not have a consultant to call and make a decision for them

Rkmr in previous comments you were demanding that anyone who disagree with you produce corroborated facts to back themselves up. Now you’re making unsubstantiated blanket statements about what every single woman will do. You can’t have it both ways

I didn’t demand anything from anyone who disagreed with me, a poster stated that worldwide statistics show home birth is dangerous. I asked for evidence if this. I know many people in Ireland and abroad who have had home births, they all spent a great deal of time educating themselves on the benefits and risks of both options. I can not imagine anyone opting for a home birth without doing this.

A blog, talking about North America and referencing only US stats.

The way the European healthcare system in general works is different to the US. Not really comparing like with like in any way shape or form.

Have you actually read this article? It’s talking about births in developing countries with little or no obstetric assistance. Home births in Ireland are attended by midwives and the mothers attend Irish hospitals for all their antenatal screening.

Well done on being able to google! Although a blog is not the best place to go for information as the writer has written with their beliefs in mind. You other comment said statistics in all European countries show that home birth is not safe. You must have read studies that prove this if you are willing to make such a statement, so please show me these studies that prove it.
The link you posted show deaths in developing countries where where there is limited medical care, there is also the issues of malnutrition, lack of education, lack of clean water and sterile instruments and poor living standards so of course deaths are going to be higher than in developed countries. Thankfully here in Ireland we have a fully trained experienced midwife at home births, we also have access to hospitals if needed. Generally women are more educated about birth, our diets are healthier, we have clean water, warm homes our midwifes have access to sterile instruments and had better living standards.

Yes you posted a link to a blog containing some info from who on mortality rates in developing countries which you can not compare to Ireland. See I have a problem with people who post such bold statements like yours without any evidence or actual facts. I’m curious as to where you learned that worldwide statistic prove home birth is dangerous, because if its true I would like to see and so educate myself more. I’m sure you must have some actual studies proving this or did you just make this up as its what you personally believe?