“they have the plant but we have the power”- Lisa simpson
Great work

So where’s the name? Let’s have it.

Why is NAMA so secretive?also why are they exempt fromthe FOI act anyone know?

Nice article, interesting way of looking at these kinds of occupations. In Cork they managed to force a dissolved company, Padlake Ltd, to re-register to force them out. So now they’ll have to either start paying back their loans again, or go for insolvency I’d imagine. Either way, the public wins in terms of forcing light on the issue.

We own these buildings anyway, so I dont see any problem!

@ donal very true.It brings into question the apparant democracy were supposed to be living in.Politicians are only there to give you the feeling or idea that you have rights & free speech. Well YOU don’t..YOU & i are owned by corporate businessmen,they own US

@ Dave very true..there is obvious corruption involved.I’m guessing there’s politicians involved also that’s why it’s not accessible to the public..Any other reasons??? With regards “we own them” ideology,that’s as daft as Leo varadkar! Politicians are there to give US the impression we live in a Democracy and that we have the right to free speech,we don’t have either.YOU & I are owned by corporate elite & wealthy powerful buisnessmen,when you start to realize this it becomes much clearer.I’m not a conspiracy beatbox just a plain auld bogman.the evidence is there,do yourself a favor & do a bit of research,what you will find is very interesting,it will unlock your answers!!

I think this occupy NAMA has alot of big boys running shit scared calling on there contacts to change laws quickly to there interests.just watch for it.

Well done occupy NAMA.hope ye get to the othe 849…:-)

Act of civil disobedience!

You don’t need to be a product of the Kings Inn to know that this description is grossly inaccurate of the illegal occupation over the weekend of private property by an unelected mob who had to be removed by the Gardai.
In the interest of dealing in facts the author should be corrected on the inaccurate statement that the Guards were acting on the instruction of the liquidator of the business concerned. The Gardai are upholding the law and nothing more.
When groups of people decide that law breaking is perfectly acceptable for them because they hold some grievance over Government policy or Acts of our Parliament then we need to worry that their next foray might turn much more ugly.

What an asinine comment to justify the misuse of limited public resources and the forceful illegal entry of private property by a gang of people who know better than everybody else. Next you guys will be suggesting that this behavior is for our own good as somehow we don’t understand the evil being caused by our elected democracy.
When the participants have to cool their heels in an over crowded cell in Mountjoy which reeks of stale sweat and fear for stupidity then they might realize that the laws of our society have to be respected.
To equate the actions of Dail Eireann to those of the Third Reich is a clear reflection of your intellectual immaturity. The suggestion also conveys an appalling slur on the victims of Nazi Germany and all of our elected parliamentarians.

John I do believe that you are attempting to represent what was an illegal act as something protected by law. The entry of this building by a large group was clearly behavior likely to disturb and potentially lead to a breach of the peace.
While I am unaware as to the actual means of entry itself it could reasonable be interpreted in law that the manner rather than the method was indicative of a forced access. Should this be the case then the act itself is criminal in nature and not civil as you suggest.
My understanding is that the Gardai cleared the building and the Mob (sic) are now trying to suggest that they left voluntarily.
Mob rule John in any society where people act with a complete disregard for societal norms is something to fear and also be stopped in its tracks. Have we not had enough of that in this country over the years.
Which Laws or Statutes do you like John and which ones do you believe can be broken. Maybe we will let everyone who reads the Journal have their choice on a daily basis!
We could even have a poll on the issue!

Mark. U have a point..but,when is enough enough?? When most laws favor the people that have imposed huge losses of negative equity suffered by nama/tax payer and the owners names have to be kept quiet.why should that hold up?that is not good enough I think. Why should the law favor them? I’m lookin at a 50% negative equity,no bank or state body will help me,but they will help the big boys!.and I have to look down the barrel of that gun for 35 years because the government never imposed banking regulations to protect it’s people against non regulated mortgages & greedy bankers and morgage sellers getting huge bones to nail us hard and fast.they knew it was unsustainable,why did they carry on? I’ll tell u why,GREED..this was all a big plan mate by Goldman sack and others alike..Paul haufer for example,why “could” they sell their stock on a saturday when stock markets are closed for I think $8.16 a share?come Monday morning stock markets crashed with shares down to just over a buck..the big banks in USA failed,pushing Europe into recession,sooo bondholders could sell there debt to be bough by umbrella company’s for a quarter of the price forcing governments to borrow massively against state assets..of course country’s can’t pay back,so the big corporate elite move in to take over country’s state assets,get laws changed to suit themselves and hey presto the people get fucked.now I think you sound like ur involved somehow regarding ur statement,clearly not affected by this corruption.so u need to get off ur fox hunting stallion and go look for a piebald pony coz you’ll be facing cuts too!
Don’t forget,all occupy Nama want is the names of the so called owners of these empty buildings..you obviously think that is asking to much??maybe a move to Russia or Nigeria would suit your personal interests better.

Mark,as for your comment of “misuse of public resources” it was on the radio today about a girl who had her car broken into,handbag taken etc,she had an iPhone so she called the local ‘”public resources” to tell where the phone was showing up,she asked for an email address so she could forward GPS links etc,they are not allowed email,she called 2 more local offices,only to be told the same story.they replied telling her to fax it in!! Are an garda siochana still operating with 1990′s technology?? Now that’s more like a “misuse of public resources” wouldn’t you agree?

Actually Neil they probably are because their resources are used up removing mob type law breakers from causing damage to private locked property!

Neil the latter part of your intellectual contribution sounded like a threat.
When you obtain the location of all these properties that have been taken into State ownership are you then going to proceed with the threat to take over many of them for your homeless charities etc.?
You do realize that the State cannot allow that to happen and sooner rather than later there will be a confrontation where someone will be injured and may die.
This frightening scenario is being caused by misguided dreamers who think they have all the questions and every single one of the answers.
I am beginning to also see a pattern her and frequently I recognize faces and therefore it is only a matter of time before your personal lives are fully known. Do you wish to pay that price?

.

Seventy people forced their way into a somewhat derelict building………Shanti…with a name like that you must have a couple of fired up synapses that can help you with the bigger picture?
Someone slips on a stair and another falls over the body and four crash through the banisters all the way to the ground floor. The neck of one person is lying at an odd angle to her face……..?
You don’t need to have violence but you can put it in if you want. All this suits the organizers of the group. In fact they get off on stuff like that. It gives them bold headlines and they start to believe their own rhetoric. Invincible.
Now you tell me with this Mob…….how many days before this happens. Go and wash your hands!

Well said shanti..he has tunnel vision..sounds like a politician or a judge of some kind that is wanting to protect his rich buddies that are part of a corrup system that will do anything to keep public opinion down.it’s the system that has contributed to ruining our country for over 90 years.

Ooh shanti…I feel a more united public is coming..he has definatley got some kind of connection to either Nama,politics or corporate ties..hey actually aren’t they all inter mingled anyway?? Hehe!! I tell ya shanti I’ll die fighting on my feet before I beg on my knees before these corrupt w*****s..I think there era is coming to an end.They ought to head to there Swiss banks with a connecting flight to the cayman islands:-)

The more they utter the more they say!

I think I will change my Name

Stalin , Hitler and Mau made Lovely so called laws to keep the owners of their countries down just like today. “When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty”? and if you disagree you are part of the problem. In Ireland like in many countries there are a lot of sucker uppers who would do anything to climb the social ladder and walk on the heads of the real owners of the land just because they are being paid off . there is only one law “The Law Of The Land” do no harm . when you support criminals and corruption you are acting unlawfully in the same way they are. When you are standing up for what is right you are the opposite. In Ireland today the working people are paying the wages and bonuses of failed ,useless bankers and Politicians and then being demonized by uneducated fools when they decide to do something about such tyranny. The so called system (which is only in place to benefit a few criminals and their minions) is rotten to the core in this country and someone needs to fix that

i think it was purposely set up this way using commercial sensitivity to allow them to operate without true accountability to the citizens who are bankrolling yet another scam and devise to manipulate the property market.

Went along to the Unlock Nama meeting last night and this is a freeform review of the gig.

I was criticising Conor McCabe on Vincent Browne for not presenting a compelling alternative to our dysfunctional system.
And Jesus it’s probably just as well he did not.
Cos if it sounded anything like the one he gave tonight he would have terminated the possibility of any empathy with the cause he espouses.
But tonight we got it and sadly the vision sounded way too like division to me.
Not the predictable Judaen People’s Liberation front variety – although boy did we have that – but the sort of division that the Pope lacks.
War!
Take to the tanks and take em out.
Seriously we had a rabble rousing call to arms!

McCabe rightly pointed out that much of the cancer that blights our society is actually legal.
Ok it’s not illegal but is it right?
According to Conor it doesn’t matter.
They are right.
We too are right.
Who are ‘they’ and who are ‘we’.
Sadly we were back to simplistic class cliche to work out who the enemy is.
The Occupy movement – as distinct from the local Khmer Rouge wing about which there will be more later – struck a chord because it emerged from the modern world and jettisoned class cliche with its more pertinent 99% versus 1%.
(It in itself a somewhat simplistic acknowledgement of the radical shift of wealth distribution in the past 20 years)
The ‘working class’ as a social/political phenomenon now, as far as I can see, lives in Asia.
While back in the West the predatory lions of capitalism roam the denuded ‘wild’ seeking to devour the gazelles irrespective of their preference of tweed over donkey jackets.
But apparently the savannah ain’t big enough for the two of us.
So someone has gotta go… grave side.
That’s fighting talk!

Meanwhile history has granted us an unprecedented moment to question the lion’s right to prey.
The perfect storm of total economic breakdown, the once in 50 lifetimes opportunity is here now as we speak.
So here’s the moment to look at capitalism in terms of the social carnage it has created and to posit some alternative vision for the future.

And Conor, speaking honestly to his credit, did posit a vision for the future.

Forget fighting corruption within the current system cos the system itself is corrupt.
Cool. So far so good.
Forget wrong or right.
Hmmm
They are right. We are right.
Big Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
The difference?
The difference is, as I mentioned already, some ill defined outdated notion of class
Both competing sides are valid so we just crush their side. We declare war.
Rousing stuff. That’s what meetings are for. Or so they say.

So it’s just as well Conor did not do justice to his vision on TV the other night…cos ultimately it seems to come down to some Darwinian supremacy.

WAR BABY

My gang is bigger than your gang!

Instantly the Khmer Rouge wing of the Occupy meeting was on its feet.

One of them threw a deadly barb at Conor: “Middle class.”

Another bearded cadre, the one who appeared in the truly embarassing Occupy the Aras clip, and his mate shouted “coward”.

Barely had war been declared and the room filled with cries of dick size. What a surprise. That’s war for you.
Messy. Unpredictable. And profoundly male.

Thankfully sense came in the usual shape of a woman. But the dame comes later.

I had been previously been wondering when I stuck up notices of the meeting both here and in the other gaffe about the choice of words: Unlock Nama and had presumed that feuding had ruled out the use of Occupy.

I also found it strange that I was publicising a meeting on a topic of huge interest to the Irish people.
That recent youtube clip of the attempted eviction near Athy (?) got over 300,000 views.

300.000 and there are no jokes, no violence, no nudity.
Nor is there even any sound legal advice to be gleamed.
And still 300,000.
You don’t need to be a genius to know that this is raw, visceral stuff.
This is the stuff revolutions are made of.
But if we’re gonna have a revolution, let’s not get too male on it.
Let’s get it right.

But tonight despite inadvertently doing their best to ensure a limited attendance there were about 120 people there. (Sure why inform the public?)
A lot though were the usual suspects though.
Which is probably just as well cos Joe public is not that wild about the idea of war.
(Thanks be to God)

I have quite some respect for Mr McCabe.
And despite appearances, I don’t entirely rule out the concept of warfare.
But I have very little time for the concept of beautiful losers.
Especially when there is so much at stake.
And especially – and I know this is hard for quite a few people in that room to accept- when there is finally a possibility of winning.

If you are going to declare war, you do it when you are sure of winning and you do it for the right reasons.
And you don’t do it when you only have mustered 120 people on a life and death issue.
A rank and file of 120 people.
That’s scary! In the wrong way.
Cos that’s not enough for a decent mini marathon never to mind military manoeuvre.

So this is the time for communication, not conflict.
And first there is the issue of what is being communicated

Conor presented a vision where we merely change the people who oppress others.
Admittedly on behalf of what is supposedly a majority.
Allowing for the greater beneficiaries, there was still something so naked and so brutish in the bellicose vision.
The whole doing wrong for right gig.
Ends/means yabba yabba yabba.

But why go so lazy. Why stick to that old yellowing script?

The people are clamouring for that difficult elusive concept: a fair and just alternative.

It’s not as rousing as declaring war. Well not to the boys anyhow.

The women can be a bit better when it comes to an alternative.

And the time has never been better for delivering one.

An alternative.

Not just a change in the accents administering power.

Somewhere in the structure of power and our evolving relation to it lies the root of the tension between the Occupy movement – as distinct from Khmer Rouge wing that were aptly vocal and present tonight – and the traditional left.

Although still vague and diffuse, the left still clings to much of the patriarchal, vertical structures of power; the power structures which were born out of the printing press: you know the whole reasoned rational democratic debate gig that’s built around some medieval might.

The embryonic political structures emerging out of the digital revolution clash big time with the old left world view.

Now of course there are issues of clarity, focus and organisation but somewhere in the animosity lies the roots of something new.

There is still something new on a meta level despite the dispute we witnessed tonight between Occupy debris and leftie stalwart being perhaps more familiar to a caveman than Paul Mason.

But as Mason too gropes to explain; somewhere in the changing manner of processing knowledge and then there’s the weird new undefined dimension, a new metaphysics which seems to have its roots, without sounding too Simpson like, in the technology.

And we are talking something more profound than a hipster hail Apple song.

So here we were in the political protest clash of civilisations.
But all was not in vain thanks to the input of one woman who instinctively knew what was to be done.
A trade unionist teacher with the energy to run a country got up a made a speech about the lack of space for classes and how some, presumably adult education classes were being conducted in buildings that were being rented.
Funds restricting classes. Funds going on rent. Empty building. Join the dots. Go figure. Some common sense.

The oh so obvious solution: help people.

Short of a fleet to tabloids to help your sell your martial plans and a historical tradition of putting the boot in to help recruit grunts, declaring war is not attractive.
People don’t like it.
If you spend some time in one, it’s very easy to see why they it’s not best selling idea to people.
That’s goes some way to explain the concept of conscription.

People generally prefer living to dying.

Although they now seem condemned to a new zone between the two – a paupers’ purgatory.

And it’s all getting too much for some.

But all the more reason to help them live.

Give the people a class room for their kids not a class war.

Give the people a creche.

If people trust you to mind their children, they’ll trust you with anything.

With enough people you wont have to go to war.

And from experience we all know that killing people is really messy. Things go off-script.

The guy tonight living in Argentina spoke of the slogan: No Houses Without People, No People Without Houses.

We need a new Land League.

We need an office.

We need a database.

There are lots of skilled people with nothing to do.

Do up ghosts estates. Start handing them out to the needy.

Maybe use the corpo housing list at first so favouritism is not an option/issue.

Looking at the response to the household charge, could you imagine anyone trying to stop you doing up a ghost estate to house people.

Don’t think so.

The first creche, the first adult eduction centre, the first ghost estate brought to life will bring a victory far greater than any battle against any supposed class enemy.

I can just see us out there, the Marxist Militia, AK in one hand and calculator in the other:
“OK so the car is part of your work and allowing for taxes… eh… still… when I add everything up you are 20 quid over the limit and I therefore declare you a class enemy and sentence you to death.” BANG.
You won’t be needing that car now.
Ooops meet the new boss etc

So thanks to the teacher the idea got aired.

And the post declaration of war shouts about who was middle class, who was a coward, who ran from the police did nothing to detract from an idea whose time has come.

You offer the people a service and they will see you are for real.

Despite what you said Conor, the problem is ultimately not the other side are legal, it’s that they are wrong.
Profoundly so.
To ape their power structures means we too would be wrong.
And it’s not the right time to be wrong.

I, for one, will offer any assistance I can provide to occupy Nama. To give back to the people the property that belongs to them.
That they have paid for through bailouts and subsidies.

No people without houses, no houses without people

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=11459