Easy answer …. the fecking Gaelgoir’s just love to lord it over the rest of us !

@ Ben Gunn – great point. Changing the signs doesn’t address the issue. Make the teaching of Irish more effective. Have more events and initiatives for speaking Irish. n

David Fehily; I think you wiil find that you learned more German, French and Gaelic THAN English or did you learn German, French and THEN English.

wiil is a typo error …touche!

Sean, they have been working on this for quite some time. It’s a collective effort by An Post and Ordnance Survey Ireland called the Geo Directory.

The problem with rolling it out is that people here are very, very stubborn and don’t take change well.

when you are in a foreign country and they have signs in two languages (usually the language of the star and English) do you find this is any less clear? No, you’re still able to follow it aren’t you? It’s the same for Irish. So the use of two languages in equal font size has no bearing whatsoever on clarity.

apologies meant language of the state not star

Ah! Katie Does be spellin’ the word sacrificed as scarified….scarey!!!!

Hi Katie Does; I hope you can take a joke but, joking aside, why waste space giving the same information twice. Why not use it to give further information like “don’t stop here as there are no toilets” etc.,

@ephen I’m scarla :(

True. There must be some reason all the yanks flock to learn it every summer.

Yeah that has worked in lots of other countries with minotiry languages. Oh no wait it’s never happened.

How about we stop compelling people to learn it and see what happens!

@Aodhán

What about Wales?

Don’t you mean *whales.

How do you think we learned English?

Bless you.

Yán*

we are talking about IRELAND HERE….. the sun was probably shinning in africa yesterday aswell …. has no barring on things here!!

And you have only used four for your name Debi?! For shame.

Why is that?

Another one of the many, many ridiculous comments from the monoglot English speakers on this thread.nnYou might like to know that this issue of signage has been discussed regulary in the Irish language media.

Hi John..I think you should read the sign at the top again, it is in fact Bhearra. Mind you there are plenty of signs that are totally wrong but that is what you would expect from a made up language. eg there is no word for television because television was not around in the days when Irish was spoken so they make one up and if you tell them your name is Frederick they will do their bloody best to bastardise it into some kind of Irish sound and the list is endless.

i think its yourself that needs to look at the sign again Ephen Boland…. its the english spelling of the word you should look at….

John; you said it was Bearla so you would be speaking about the Irish when in fact the English is wrong as CastletowMbere so my comment still stands.

How come the sign interprets Bandon as Bridge of Bandon

Answer …because they don’t have a translation for Bandon they only change the O to an A ..how bad is that. So they distract you by adding the rest.

As Bearla…. is irish for “in english”…… not the bhearra part or the name….

Gotcha Kop!

even gave you a thumbs up for that

@ Ephen…here is no word for television because television was not around in the days when Irish was spoken so they make one up
hahaha. And where do you think the English language got its word for “television”. I don’t think you’ll find that in much English language literature prior to the television’s invention. The English language is inventing words all the time. It’s a sign of a living language. French does it too by an officially sanctioned state body. Why not in Irish too?

John; if anything you should have said that All Capitals “ARE” easier and Not “Is” easier

Hi Brian O’Dalaigh; I think you might misunderstand my point. My point is; if there is already a word to describe something, then that is it , just like my name or your name. If you go to Germany or France they will ask your name and then respectfully use it as you have given it. If television was an Irish invention then I would have no problem with a Gaelic word for it but, it was not and to bastardise a word just so it fits into an Irish sentence, is a bit ridiculous. I have some Chinese friends and they call me by my name and do not try to give me their version and that is a living language.

Sorry, Ephen, but your point makes no sense whatsoever. I understand what you are saying about personal names. I hate the way school teachers impose a Gaelicisation, whether reversed or novel, on school pupils. However, what you are saying about words such as television is simply ridiculous. Using your logic the word television should be an English word as the device was created by English speakers in the United States – an English speaking country. However, the word television is not English. It is derived from French “télévision” (in the same way that Irish “teilifís” is derived from English “television”), which has, as its ultimate source, the Greek word “τῆλε” (“from afar”) and the Latin word “visio” which is the action noun of the verb “videre” (“to see”). Using your logic, English should have named the device as the “farseen”, from the Anglic “feorrsīen” (compare German “Fernsehen” and Norwegian “Fjernsyn”). The vast majority of the world’s languages have as their word for that device a word which stems either from the French or the English versions. Estonian has “televisioon”, Serbo-Croat has “televizija”, Spanish has “televisión”, Basque has “telebisu”, Indonesian has “televisi”, Dutch has “televisie”, Russian has “телевидение” televidenije, Swedish has “television”, Turkish has “televizyon”, etc. At the end of the day, English has the word “whiskey/whisky” which is simply their way of bastardising the Gaelic languages just so it fits into an English sentence. The same as other English words such as “galore” (go leor), “bannock” (bonnach), “bog” (bogach), “drumlin” (droim), “kibosh” (caip bháis), “lough” (loch), “shamrock” (seamróg), “slogan” (slua ghairm), etc. Basically, not only has the English language done, and continues to do, that which you give out about regarding the Irish language, but the English language does it for concepts that were already pre-existing ones.

Classic! ..Brian who is called Brian !

And that last comment of yours definitely made no sense. But just so we’re clear – my name is “Brian”, pronounced “BREE-un”, never “BRY-un”.

’twas a joke but, I take it you are not a Monty Python fan. Don’t need things getting too serious on this topic.

Nope, much more of a Black Books fan myself ;)

Like Leighlinbridge pronounced Loughlinbridge… why not just spell it the way you want it pronounced. What a confused bunch we Irish are.

But it is spelled the way I want it pronounced. It’s Irish. It has a different orthography than English (and a far more uniform and consistent method). Think about the Irish words “srian” (rein) pronounced SREE-un, or “grian” (sun) pronounced GREE-un.

Good Night, BREE un, nice swapping ideals and sarcasm but, sleep calls as I need my wits about me tomorrow whatever I have of them.

WELL….let me see…. ask Enda to stop throwing money in to the big black hole that is bailling out bondholders… plenty of money to sort out things in this country then…….and being a Fine Galer sure are you not totally against everything Irish………

Household tax

Nah, the way home is fine – it’s getting to other places that presents the difficulty.

I can get out and about fine, but getting home is a bother and getting home on time is impossible. Ask the wife.

Yes, you’re right Ciaran.

Every roadsign in Wales is bilingual, but no-one can see them because of the heaps of crashed cars around them.

All safety signs should be clear and understandable for a reason, I can imagine some tourists last thoughts before wrapping his car around a lampost being ‘ what the hell does ‘go mall’ mean? ‘

In fairness Ciaran, if the driver is too busy trying to understand a language he doesn’t speak when the English is right there in front of him, perhaps he shouldn’t be driving in the first place. I mean, come on, we allow billboard signage along our primary routes with some of these consisting of some fairly distracting imagery and words. I have never ever heard of a driver having an accident simply because of Irish or any other language being present on a bilingual sign. If this were the case every time an Irish person drove in Europe they’d have to have ordered their coffin in advance. As for the cost – no it wouldn’t cost a fortune. Simply put, when a sign needs replacing, replace it with a new standard.

@ciaran – explain to me why Bilingual signs would cost more than monolingual signs?? FYI, they are exactly the same price.

Until you and others like you stop forcing your language on me, I don’t give a rat’s a**e for your language.

I have never forced the language on anyone. I have the cúpla focal that is it. In no part of that comment have I said we should force the language on people. In fact in other comments you will see I have said I believe should NOT be compulsory. I think Irish would be much stronger if the people who want to speak it do, and stop p*ssing off a section of people who do not want anything to do with it.nnWould I like to see it grow? Yes. Among people who want to speak it. Its their choice. Again I have not said force it on anyone.n

AND IRISH……

Old Nokia Charger same old rhetoric, no pride in your country or it’s language. Old Nokia Dinosaur more like!

Indeed I have no pride in ‘my’ country! The very idea is ludicrous to me.

The Kop…Cop on Lad we don’t all speak Irish. What a load of rubbish…

Irish is dead, has been for years. Drop it and concentrate on real issues…

Ah to be so uneducated and to demonstrate it in front of the public!

Nearly all Irish placenames are transliterations that phonetically represent Irish language pronunciations in the English Language. Therefore the correct place name is the Irish version. It is incorrect to call these placenames English or English language placenames. For example Dublin has no meaning in English or is its source from the English language. It is Dubh Linn and every educated Irish person knows what that means.

A good example of placenames where transliteration partially failed due to English ignorance is the place name Ireland. If one is not familiar with Irish orthography and therefore ignorant of the effect a sine fada (acute) has on pronunciation and that an unaccented ‘e’ is pronounced ‘ah’, then the word Éire will be pronounced ‘ire’ and the leading ‘E’ becomes superfluous in the mispronunciation of the written word. So one cannot be Irish or refer to Ireland without speaking Irish whether one is aware of it or not!

The Brita beat the Irish speakers out of this country and the present bunch of anglophiles bow down to that. Pathetic.

And shite….

see how it fares*

Thanks

Seems silly to actively try to kill our heritage, I’m sure people’s English language skills would steadily decline if it stopped being a mandatory subject in school, as would maths. In fact why bother teaching Spanish or french? Taking in another language forced on kids, as is religion as a subject in some schools.

Irish is the only exam you must sit at LC level. The requirement for sitting a Leaving is Irish + 4 other subjects. The reason English, Maths and a third language are de facto compulsory is related to college entry criteria rather than law. That and they’re the ones most useful to you generally in life.

I don’t think anyone here wants to kill Irish, there’s just a difference in opinion as to what’s best for the language going forward – preserving the status quo for fear of a decline in the language versus trying something new, i.e. teaching it like third languages like French and German are taught, or making it optional in Senior Cycle. Only a minority ITT are purposely trying to rustle some Gaelgóir jimmies, probably out of an (understandable) bitterness from the way it’s forced on students for whom the native tongue culturally irrelevant at school.

I, for one, resent the attitude that you’re somehow less Irish or less culturally valuable to society if you can’t or don’t want to speak it. It’s never been relevant to me, my parents, my grandparents and so forth all the way up my largely Anglo-Irish ancestors, and I don’t think those like me are a cultureless people “gan anam” for our, in reality, not-so-different heritage.

Nonetheless, I tolerate that attitude and my jimmies remain to this day unrustled by the culture of others within my society. To each, their own.

Thanks for your comment, Paul. Indeed, English is the majority language of our country. However, I am not proposing removing English from signs: I would just like to see signs give equal status to both languages so that we can stop thinking about one of them as “special”, “protected” or “in need of promotion” (this mentality seems to cause a lot of frothing at the mouth, as we can see from the comments here!). And two languages on the signs won’t confuse tourists: bilingual signs work fine in Wales and Finland, as well as in many other places. As far as I am aware, guidebooks tend to mention that Ireland has bilingual signs.

No way, Laura. Compulsory school Irish has only hastened the decline of Irish.

Why do you think that Paul? The majority of studies on the topic show that it’s not the compulsory learning of Irish that people have a problem with, it’s the way it’s taught. And to a large extent that’s true but without teaching it in schools we would only have a handful of speakers

You mustn’t have if your writting this on something that doesn’t interest you

Well fortunately we don’t live in a fascist country, we live in a democracy. So it is open to you to campaign on this point with the electorate, rather than accuse democratically-elected governments of engaging in fascism.

And if you read up on fascism, you’ll find they were never big into language equality.

Why roadsigns have the Irish version in Italics beats me. Irish is not a Latin language. I would like to see Irish given the same status as Welsh i.e. equal.

It shouldn’t cost anything if this was applied to new and replacement signs.

Long reply there, but can you explain to me why my children have to learn Irish, even if I don’t want them to?

Because your not the dictator! Its a democracy, campaign for an end to compulsion if its what you believe in. I dont believe it should be compulsory either, but I accept the will of the majority.

Will of the majority? Can you link me to where the majority made their views known on this?

Many informal polls have been undertaken into it including hereand it seems it generally falls into a 60/40 split in favour of Irish remaining compulsory. I dont keep records or anything, Im not that bothered, but just from my experience.nnIm in the 40%. Unfortunately, Fine Gael promised to make it optional, but then went right back on it like everything else.nnI actually think Irish would thrive if optional. It would boost demand for Gaelscoileanna, which DOES create speakers, compulsory Irish in English medium schools doesnt.

@ Old Nokia Charger – Did you not see the results of a poll carried out by Ipsos/MRBI in 2011? 61% are in favour of compulsory Irish.

Link: http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0209/irish.html

As an aside, although I am a supporter and native speaker of Irish, I personally disagree with all compulsory subjects. Education should be tailored to encourage a child’s natural talents and skill sets while fostering a basic understanding of other topics.

German might be an alternative ?

Maybe Polish and Nigerian should be added to the list and while we are at it mandarin I here that’s fast becoming the most spoken language in the world….

Have we not better things to be spending money on.

@gingerman. Because we don’t live in china

Hear hear.

Thanks for your comment, Eric. In fact, “conversion” of English speakers into Irish speakers is an unrealistic goal and something I am completely opposed to. I touched on this in paragraph six of my piece. What angers me about Irish road signs is that they hark back to this “promotion” idea by giving one language a special status (by, ironically, italicising it and making it more illegible). I imagine the idea is to make the Irish look more “Celtic” or something, but who knows. It all goes back to ridiculous article 8 of the Constitution.

There’s a lot of hysteria around Irish and a lot of it stems from the “promoters” of Irish (who I don’t agree with) and their opinion that Irish is “better” than English. Neither language is better than the other and this should be reflected on the signs, as it is here in Finland, in Wales and in many other countries.

Ian, very good article. You may be interested to know that designer Garret Reil (and Conradh na Gaeilge) have out research into equality on road signage. Here is some info: http://www.garrettreil.ie/about-the-design-research-project.php

However I’d have to disagree with your above comment that Irish language ‘promoters’ claim that Irish is somehow better than English. I am an active member of the Irish speaking community and I have never come across that viewpoint.

Sa lá atá inniu ann tá an tromlach de phobal na Gaeilge an-tuisceanach faoi thábhacht teangacha go ginearálta agus cuireann siad an teanga chun tosaigh ar bhealach dearfach oscailte.

So Sinn Fein supporters are the only people who support the Irish language?? That is bullsh**, Fianna Fail supports the Irish language, so to does the Labour party and so too does alot but not all Fine Gael supports. The problem with Sinn Fein is that they have used the Irish language in the wrong ways e.g promoting their republican agenda. So no its not just Sinn Fein supporters who support our national language. In fact the Irish language makes us Irish unique and different to so many places in the world which in my opinion is a good thing. Why let the Irish language decline? The biggest problem is the way its thought in school which, if it was thought differently through better communication techniques would change most peoples negative perception of the language.

Looks like there could be a problem with the way English is TAUGHT in your school too, Sam. Best get onto them about that.

Jesus, I didn’t realise the language police were out this evening. Instead of correcting my grammer mistake, maybe you should bring something constructive to this article about the Irish language.

Or maybe not and just continue trolling on every story which is on TheJournal. Which ever makes you feel better Wolfgang.

By dad, people who speak Irish writing their names in Irish, the cheek of them. Next thing we’ll have Spaniards by the name of José commenting on here as well.

Grammar.

John Murphy that is an extremely offensive and downright ignorant comment. I really hope you were just trying to be funny in some way.

Sam didn’t realise the language police were out this evening. Either that’s some super post-modern irony going on or, well, someone with no sense of humour. Did you read the article, Sam?

Sam, first of all with regards to “language police”, I don’t believe there’s anything wrong with highlighting a fundamental error in your grammar. Correcting typos is another thing but correcting a grammatical mistake should be seen as doing you a favour.

Secondly, with regards to “trolling”, just because my opinions happen to differ from yours, does not mean I am “trolling”. Indeed, if you want to be really pedantic, going by the number of green thumbs vs red thumbs my posts get overall, the result of polls, referendums and elections, then I am representing the voice of the majority in the country. The anti-government, anti-EU, anti-everything crowd on here represent a tiny but very vocal minority here. If anything, their posts could be seen as trying to “troll” the majority. Lets not be petty though, just don’t go throwing around “troll” accusations just because you yourself get your panties in a bunch over something someone says.

@Ronan Doherty, come on now, lets not play make believe. The overwhelming majority of those who are posting with Irish names here (facebook/twitter accounts) DO NOT speak Irish with any level of fluency AND those are not the names they’re known by offline. It is utter pretentiousness to seem more “Irish” and nothing more.

“I don’t believe there’s anything wrong with highlighting a fundamental error in your grammar”
Get a grip otherwise you would be commenting on 99% of the comments on this site. As long as people get their point across who actually gives a crap.

Wolfgang I was replying to John Murphy’s comment, there was no need to get involved in this discussion if you had nothing constructive to say. I have no problem if you have a different opinion than mine but when you go ‘trolling’ around(yes I called you a troll) on TheJournal instead of bringing something constructive to the discussion this annoys me. So instead of us having a civilised discussion about the Irish language, this has turned into an argument about a grammar mistake I made. So therefore do not get involved if you have nothing constructive to say thanks.

And cheers Daniel you make a good point.

John Burke I was trying to be funny maybe you shouldn’t read the journal.ie if you are easily offended ? I was being sarcastic it’s a play on the kind of people that hop on this Irish band wagon. Jeez …

You were ‘trying to be funny’? That says it all really. It’s funny how you didn’t state that after the first few angry comments came in. No you were busy enjoying the emotional responses you were receiving. Essentially, you were trolling and you would be easily offended too, trust me, if you something you loved was being linked to SF.

On this Irish bandwagon? Are you descended from English settlers or what?

And I suppose you consider yourself the voice of reason, even though you haven’t actually made a point about the topic under discussion.

Interesting that. I’m sick of Irish being forced down mine!

No one forces you to speak Irish. You have no idea what “forcing language down your throat” is. We all did subjects we didn’t want to in school, I did maths for 14 years and have the most basic grasp on the subject. Get over it and treat us equally. I don’t care if you want to call Baile ?tha Cliath “Dublin”, leave me to my own devices and I’ll leave you to yours.

You have no idea what “forcing language down your throat” is.

I most certainly do. And I know what’s it’s like to have it imposed on my children too.

Explain to me how Irish is forced down your throat.

I was made to learn it in school and now my children suffer the same fate.

Look, English is the majority language in this state. If you wish to speak a minority language that’s your call and I wish you the best. But I don’t want to fund that indulgence. Know what I mean?

Poor you. 40 minutes a day for 5 days a week, three months off in the summer, 2 weeks at Christmas, 2 weeks at Easter, a week at Hallowe’en and a week in February. Must be hell. I can say the same about science and maths.

Speaking Irish is not an “indulgence”; it’s a normality and daily thing. The internet is where I speak English – that’s an indulgence.

Having a language forced down your throat is a lack of forms, websites, customer service workers, menus, television and radio programmes, university courses, schoolbooks, Garda?, priests, doctors, pubs, roadsigns and countless other things available in your language.

It’s being told “not to speak that filth in here” when chatting to friends in a restaurant (only happened once, but still not a nice feeling).

Forgive me if I don’t empathise with your plight (I’m indifferent to the school situation) but please don’t critisise (spelling? “N? c?in”) what you don’t understand.

Based on your “I don’t use it, why should I pay for it” logic – I shouldn’t pay taxes for services in English. Or for single mother allowances.

I hate getting foul of people because of this. Live you life gallda in peace and I’ll live my life Gael in peace.

is maith liom Gaeilge…..

Sorry mate, but it absolutely is an indulgence, unlike children’s allowance and other vital social welfare provisions. Why should I subsidise your use of a minority language when you are perfectly able to speak and communicate in English? Pretty cheeky of you to expect me to, no?

lack of forms, websites, customer service workers, menus, television and radio programmes, university courses, schoolbooks, Garda?, priests, doctors, pubs, roadsigns and countless other things available in your language.

Oh poor you! Fortunately, you are more than capable of filling out forms in English so I think you’ll survive!

Ta se i mo chroi agus mo ceann…

This just brings us back to the ‘forcing down throats’ thing. “Learn my language and use it or you can’t have access to services from the state of which you are a citizen”.

I stand by “it’s not an indulgence”. I think you confuse me with a couch-Gael; one who uses the language as a hobby and only uses it in public to make a point. As opposed to someone who goes for days/weeks without speaking English. If I were one of them I’d probably be writing to you in Irish. I’m indulging you by using your first language.

We have to support each other. I pay taxes for things I deem irrelevant or useless because someone needs them.

Should you come to An Spidéal, as countless Irish visitors do, would you attempt to speak Irish? Probably not, so we have to (or rather, graciously indulge) you by speaking English.

It’s wrong to force us to speak a language which is unnatural in order to ‘survive’.

Take a look at the new signs that went up in ‘Dublin’ recently. Perfect bilingualism. If that’s the way it were always done; there’d be no problem.

Well, that’s fair enough. I also stand by my contention that it is an indulgence. I appreciate you engaging politely and wish you all the best.

“Learn my language and use it or you can’t have access to services from the state of which you are a citizen”.

You see, this is simply not true. You know how to speak English. The fact that you have some eccentric dislike of speaking it is neither here nor there. If filling out a form in English offends you that’s shame, but you must understand my reluctance to finance this messing.

would you attempt to speak Irish? Probably not, so we have to (or rather, graciously indulge) you by speaking English.

Christ! If you didn’t you’d be some rude lot. Malta is bi-lingual, if I travel there they speak English to me because I don’t speak Maltese and they can speak both English and Maltese. It’s not a matter of them indulging me graciously, it’s called not being an arse.

It’s wrong to force us to speak a language which is unnatural in order to ‘survive’.

Speaking an language is not natural or unnatural. You want to save a minority language that a reasonable position to take, but you have to recognise and some people don’t give a hoot about Irish and don’t want to subsidise university courses, radio and TV shows, and all the other things on your list – that cost a bloody fortune – for people who are fluent English speakers.

Hehe, tell that to the French! In my experience they hate people who don’t make the effort to speak French.

I know how to speak English because it’s forced down throats…If every single service and sign were equally Irish and English, why would I speak it? (I’d probably learn it off my own bat, to be honest, I like languages).

It’s not a dislike – it’s just out of the ordinary.

Ah no, I think a language can be natural (poor choice of words, perhaps); one in which you feel comfortable? The one in which you think and dream? (Perhaps I should have said ‘unnatural to me’).

Anyway, we’re not going to agree on this so I’ll leave it at that. If you ever are out here ‘leithreas’ is a toilet, and ‘bialann’ is a restaurant. You should survive ;)

No, we won’t agree, but once again cheers for engaging in a good spirit.

Oh, and I do have a few words so I surely will survive! :)

Maith thú Maitiú, ráite go cumasach agus go cruinn agat ansin.

Many kids have no interest in mathematics why force them to learn it? After-all how many of us were forced to learn Shakespeare, Milton et al and found no use for it in real life? Why force them to learn economics which recent events have proven to be a buffoonish endeavour? It appears many assumptions underlie your conclusions!

Perhaps when Ireland grows up and throws off the shackles imposed on us by Dev.

Let’s ban homosexuality, non-whites, Protestantism and anything else that isn’t a majority!

Will you run for a seat in Conamara? You have my vote.

Where did he say he wanted to ban it, “Maitiu”? He said to remove it as an official language, not ban it.

Before getting your knickers in a twist and dragging out sensationalist extremism, take the time to actually read what you’re responding to, digest what has been said and then form your reply. Don’t just bash the buttons because they’re available to bash.

(There’s a síneadh fada in my name [Alt Gr + vowel] :))

It would have a similar effect. Fair enough, children wouldn’t be beaten for using Irish, but it would have a similar effect.

For instance, homosexuality is not banned, but one cannot officially enter a homosexual marriage – it’s a negative thing.

You might be interested to know that people don’t choose their own names. They are given them or inherit them.

You are right “Small John”!

Irish self-haters : Suffers of Stockholm Syndrome.

The only way to combat this negative disease that affects many people on our island is a change of focus in our education system & an awareness of the process of colonisation which should hopefully give these people some real self-confidence.

Francis as your name means ‘fierce one’ your need a sword or a sharp intellect to attack the abilities of others especially as your Anglo-French is full of blunders and assumptions.

If you really want to start a debate just throw in the occasional Tír gan tenaga tír gan anam, Sinn Féin, dead language, if you don’t speak Irish your not a true Irishman, make Irish non-compulsory, or Peig Sayers… You’ll have both sides frothing at the mouth then.

Then no one would know where they are. SILLY.

Proud to be German!!

Then again a lot of Irish people like “Old Nokia Charger” (well I presume he’s Irish, but maybe not) have absolutely no pride anyway in their culture, identity or Irishness.

Exactly right. No pride at all. Not even a bit. That I was born on this island is an accident of birth, nothing to be proud of at all.

Oh Jesus Con speak for yourself, I mean I’m an Irish speaker and even I would be very much against putting up nothing but Irish place names… I’d have to look up logainm.ie every time I go out my drive. As for your culture, Irishness rabble, it is exactly that sort of talk that makes people dislike gaelgoirí.

Being proud of where you happened to be born is moronic.

Although, with that being said, those who are proud of their nationality tend to be people who’ve done little to be proud of themselves. They latch to things like the success of the national teams and talk about their success using terms such as “we beat them”.

If you want to attach yourself to the success of people who happen to have been born here, then you’ve equally got to attach yourself to the failure of people who happened to be born here. The same goes for the positive and negative actions of people born here. If you happen to have pride for someone who did something great on the international stage ’cause they’re Irish, then similarly you’ve got to be “ashamed” to be Irish when someone Irish does something bad on the international stage also.

I’ve no “pride” to be Irish, similarly I feel no shame for the actions of people from this country also.

Although, if you really want to talk about “pride”, I don’t think “being Irish” is something to be very proud of these days. I know people will disagree and mash the red thumb button for that, but that doesn’t really change the facts.

I see your point wolgang but taking pride in your heritage and what your people have achieved is hardly moronic and if someone has achieved little who are you to take those small joys from them, also I think that enjoying the achievements or failures of national teams is all apart of inherent tribalism thats ingrained in every human that’s Carried on from when we were small groups that got eaten by animals frequently, though you are right in saying it is negative because if we could all take pride in every humans achievement and let go of things like nationality then we could probably further the human race as a whole a lot faster. Go team people!!

sorry a bit of a typo there it should start “The arrogance and audacity”

I’m intrigued Miles, are you linguist, cultural anthropologist or statistical geographer? No! let me guess, you have at least a master’s in all three and speak pig Latin fluently too! a rare breed indeed. So what’s your point?

Adrian níl aon amadán mar amadán gan oilte! – Conchobhar na muice. Sin mo pointe!

Ah trolling, how noble.

Exposed as a ignoramus one is likely to level the charge of trolling in direct contravention of the evidence in order to protect ones prejudices. The lack of cogent argument in defence of one’s opinions indicates a defence not based on erudition but one based on injured pride.

Adrian, you seem to be confused. ‘Pig Latin’ or ‘Vulgar Latin’ was the type of common Latin that developed, depending on the areas in which it was spoken, into the modern Romance languages of Italian, French, Catalan, Spanish, Romanian etc.
It was no connection whatsoever with Gaelic.

RG Cuan, I’m of aware that. I call Irish Pig Latin because it amuses me.

No Adrian Connor calling Irish Pig Latin as RG Cuan correctly points out is incorrect but it does indicate the presence of bigotry and prejudices and as the world knows prejudice is the child of ignorance. “The less secure a man is, the more likely he is to have extreme prejudice.” – Clint Eastwood

“Well Oddball, what do think?” – Clint Eastwood

“Definitely an antisocial type… woof woof woof, that’s my other dog impression” – Donald Sutherland

and it’s attitudes like your’s that will help it end up that way. When a language is lost a whole cultural identity and history is lost with it. I’ve worked with people whose language is on the verge of dying out and they all wish they’d done something to save it. When it does die, they are sad at what they have lost. English is referred to as a killer language by linguists because it works it’s way into a country and kills off all the other languages like a virus. You think English is so great? Wait until there are no other languages to speak and then see how wonderful it is that everyone is the same!

Definition of laughable: eejit that has an Irish language name and does not know it! Synonym of soccer fanatic.

Níl aon amadán mar amadán gan oilte! Conchobhar na muice.

I’m devastated. :) I know exactly the heritage of my name. Saving the Irish language is like fighting the weather. language assimilation and extinction is evolutionary fact. I’m sure the Anglo-Saxons where crying into their soup when the Normans showed up and made their lingo the official one, ditto the Spanish and native American’s. Pre Celts, Celts, vikings, Normans, west freisen, take your pick. they were all someones cultural identity, once. The UN predicts the loss of hundreds of languages and dialects by the end of this century alone. It’s all about common usage. By the way I’m a citizen of this state and as Irish any other that claims it. Now, back to the football.

The use of evolutionary fact suggests an ignorance of evolutionary theory. But funk me ignorance is so over used as a descriptor it might not be fittest to survive. Paradoxically the lowest form of humanity is a soccer supporter. Stupidity, outrage, vanity, cruelty, iniquity, bad faith, falsehood — we fail to see the whole array when it is facing in the same direction as we!

Oh Miles, you’re so intelligent, aren’t you?

Almost all your comments on this article amount to:
“YOUR NAME WAS ONCE IRISH AND NOW YOU’RE INSULTING THAT VERY LANGUAGE LOLS OMG YOU’RE SO DUMB I’M SOO SMART LOL”.

Wolfgang or Wolf Path of the weasel. You are so Germanic I bow to your superiority!

I want whatever you’re smoking, Miles, because you’re certainly away with the fairies.

Pig latin, the real football… Ya that comment really takes the biscuit alright. Mún coiligh é an ráiteas sin. Éist do bhéal anois Adrian agus téigh a luí mar is leor sin uaitse.

Hjmkk

As regards Irish being pig Latin: French in its earlier forms was to Latin what AAVE/Ebonics is to English today, in linguistic terms at least. English too is a real mongrel of several different languages. Terms like pig Latin are not only insulting they are incorrect and irrelevant.

Sean Walsh an Irish language transliteration of Jean and signifying that one’s ancestors were from Wales! What’s in a name!

point proven

yeah that why I have all those qualifications in useful things like science and medicine

strange the way the same ones telling us to speak Irish now are the ones who would have been telling us not to speak it 200 years ago

Miles – seeing as though your comments directed at me are in a language I have no understanding of I would argue that its your approach that’s ignorant. So your point of view is lost on me. Language extinction extinction is a fact, Irish is no longer a useful language – fact, as it is not a trading language it offers the user no economic benefit. Languages generally die when they are dumped in favour of one that offers the user economic and cultural benefits. English is the future for now and that may become German or Chinese depending on whims of time. Humans have always used what gives most advantage at a given time. Irish is past its sell-by.

Adrian O’Connor you seem to have posted in the wrong place! Learning a second language no matter what language it is has many intellectual advantages. It is known in science as the bi-lingual advantage. Thus your monolingualism and postings are manifest evidence of a lack of erudition!

Lieber Miles, mein punkt steht noch, Gaelisch ist nicht mehr eine nutzliche Sprache. Ubrigens, machen Sie eine Menge von annahmen uber die Volker zweisprachige Fahigkeit. Apologies for the lack of umlauts.

Now now Adrian O’Connor injured pride, insults and pig Germanic languages do not indicate the presence of an erudite mind!

Is iad na boinn tuisceana ar do thaobh féin. Sin an aineolas na muice.
Die Annahmen sind an Ihrer Seite ist als Schwein Unwissenheit!

What does erudite mean?

Gelehrt!

Actually, there are people living in Gaeltacht areas who don’t read English very well, and who have fairly poor spoken English. Most of these people would be 40+, but when I worked in a community in the Galway Gaeltacht a few years ago I was surprised to find that some younger people (twenties and thirties) also struggled with English. I remember that one woman had huge problems sorting out a parking ticket because she couldn’t explain her case properly in English, and there were no Irish speakers who could help her. There were women there who struggled to understand doctors and other service providers and generally had to bring a friend who had better English along to medical appointments and the like. There are still young children who have little or no English and in fact my own 6 year old godson can only speak Irish, but I’d imagine that they’ll pick it up in the next few years. It’s not just tokenism, is my point. Some people still do live their lives through Irish.

“There is not an Irish speaker that cannot read English.” I wonder why! I also wonder why to be classified and ignormai one must be monolingual!

Fair enough point, there.nn I reckon giving it equal status is a nonsense, it’s not the majority language and it hasn’t been for quite some time. If people want to get uppity about the status of our Gaelic inheritance then they should also accept that Gaelic and Irish can have different meanings. We are, plenty of us descended from British and various Norse people too, so calm down. I’m all for preserving the language but you’re not somehow more Irish if you’re fluent. The Gaelic aspect of being Irish is only one aspect, people on here need to calm down and stop getting so passionate about a misconception of Irish society. We are not a Celtic society, it’s one aspect of our make up and should be treated as such

MnB, you’ll find that Irish speakers are more aware than most of the identity issues you mention and we don’t claim that we’re more Irish than anybody else. That false claim arises from the misunderstandings of the non-Irish speaking population.

Sigh- it’s not news, it’s a column- opinion pieces get it?

Sorry wrong thread.

Jesus “Charger” – next thing you’ll be telling us that ETA are arming Irish rebels in Connemara. Btw Language Freedom Movement were a fascist anti-Irish outfit in the 70′s

Con

Tell it to the New York Times.

If you were driving in say Portugal tonight and the sign said for instance …Bairro Alto, you would not need to know what it means. So a tourist seeing a sign for Daingean Uí Chúis will easily be able to find their way to it. Common sense!

Yeh true enough but if I was French and looking for Dublin and saw baile atha cliath on a sign you would be lost, Ireland is a bit different than other European countries. But you are right.

Language Freedom? WTF? You’re free to speak whatever language you want, just don’t expect others to subsidise you.

@ConnnWhat pills are you taking?nnDo you define your irishness by speaking Gaelic and hating England?nnYou need to get out more. nn

Old Nokia Charger, I like your name but you seem overly obsessed about the ‘subsidisation’ of Irish.

Of course the government spends some money on Irish language services etc – this is common practice in most progressive countries regarding minortity language planning – and indeed it is the first language of the state.

My main point however is that the Irish-speaking community aren’t living on subsidies of any kind. We work, pay taxes & pay our bills like our English-speaking compatriots. There are hundreds of Irish language projects & schools that receive no funding etc. but we continue with the work because we want to create a positive future for our communities, our families, our culture, our language. Sin é.

@Eric The Red. On the contrary i don’t hate England at all. But I was very happy to see Italia progress at their expense, if only because England have a crap football team. I don’t speak Gaeilge because I live in Dublin City Centre and Irish is mostly spoken by proud people in Ballymun and Clondalkin who fought and got Gaelscoileanna so their children could feel truly Irish. Irishness? You define yours!

How’s the weather up there in the clouds, Michael?

What country is that then?

Think you may be a bit mixed up there Michael!!

Don’t know where you got that statistic from Michael

more people speak Polish than Irish in this country. Hell I say Ireland has more French or German speakers than Irish. How many people here had a higher result in their 3rd European Language than Irish in their Leaving Cert?