We need your help now
Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
By continuing, you are indicating that you accept our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
ACCORDING TO OUR Constitution Irish is our national language. Yet for, most people, Irish has little or no impact on their lives and they will never bother too much about it. Why then did it turn out to be different in my own case, and that I went on to develop a lasting interest in the language? Brought up in rural west Wicklow (far from any Gaeltacht or urban Gaeilgeoir background) I was definitely an unlikely recruit.
Looking back on it now I think it was a combination of two lucky factors that opened up Irish to me. While my parents had practically no Irish themselves they were favourably disposed – this was factor number one. The second lucky factor only kicked in during my final years in secondary school when for the first time in my life I had a teacher who was able to teach Irish as a living language.
As if by magic, what had previously seemed as dead as Latin suddenly began to come alive for me. The characters in Dónall Mac Amhlaigh’s book Dialann Deoraí about Irish navvies in England could have been neighbours of ours from west Wicklow, and in the expressions they used in Irish more and more I could hear echoes with the Hiberno-English all around me.
That good experience enabled me to surmount the barrier which faces every learner of a second language, and especially those trying to grasp a minority language that is spoken by very few people. That barrier is, of course, is the reward worth the effort? – or, as we say in Irish, an fiú an tairbhe an trioblóid?
Irish will always remain my second language but I have to say it has opened up a whole new world for me, and has deepened my understanding of what it means to live in this country and to be able to partake in its multiple cultures. I recognise, of course, that I have been exceptionally lucky, and only regret that far more people did not have the same opportunities.
There is no doubt that Irish is now at a crossroads, and the next 10 years will determine if she lives or dies. I know from my own periodic visits to the Gaeltachts over the last 40 years that the language is now on its last legs in its traditional heartland. On the other hand, with the growth in Gaelscoileanna, the success of TG4 and other factors, there has been a revival of interest among a section at least of the urban middle class.
Another remarkable development is the way Gaeilgeoirí have made their own of the new social media – they’ve taken to Facebook and Twitter like ducks to water. But the question remains: can these virtual Gaeilgeoir communities with their global reach survive what looks like the inevitable demise of the real language community in the Gaeltacht?
The Gaeltacht has always been the tobar (well) from which the language drank, and the experts all agree that when it runs dry the game will be up for Irish.
How did the situation in the Gaeltacht get so bad, especially over the last 30 years? One undoubted factor has been the abject failure of the State to provide services through Irish even in the strongest Gaeltacht areas. In effect, a regime of compulsory English was imposed on native speakers.
With the unanimous support of all the parties in the Dáil, the Official Languages Act of 2003 was an attempt to deal with this issue by ensuring that public bodies over time would provide for services through Irish. To oversee the process Seán Ó Cuirreáin was appointed to the post of Coimisinéir Teanga (or Language Ombudsman).
Now 10 years on we find Mr Ó Cuirreáin resigning from his post in protest at the lack of political support for his efforts. There have also been disproportionately severe Government cutbacks in the Irish language sector. In the circumstances the suspicion arises that the political establishment itself has now decided to cut Irish adrift.
Despite the fact that Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Tanáiste Éamon Gilmore are both fluent speakers, and that they both give frequent interviews in the language, the evidence continues to mount that there is now a new but undeclared policy afoot to dispense with whatever supports there have been up to this for the use of Irish by our civil service and other public institutions.
The latest example was the absence of any Fine Gael or Labour representative at the recent Oireachtas sub-committee meeting on the Government’s 20-Year Strategy for the Irish language. In what was his last appearance before an Oireachtas committee before his retirement later this month Mr Ó Cuirreáin gave a damning assessment of the present state of this Strategy which is supposed to be official Government policy.
The absence of any Government representative at the meeting can only be seen as a deliberate snub to Mr Ó Cuirreáin and his efforts to draw attention to the current sorry state of affairs.
It is against this background that a major demonstration (Lá Mór na Gaeilge) in support of the language is planned for Dublin on Saturday 15 February. It will begin at the Garden of Remembrance at 2pm and we are promised there will be a festive atmosphere throughout with lots of music and craic.
The protest will be the first real test of whether the Irish language movement can succeed in garnering a significant level of support for their cause. While opinion polls may show a majority of people sympathetic towards the language, in practice few will extend themselves beyond this generalised good will.
In fairness to the movement, it is very difficult for them to get their message across in the English language media. In an era of government cutbacks, affecting especially the poor and marginalised, trying to make a case for Irish can all too easily be portrayed as self-serving and elitist.
The Irish language activist and writer Máirtín Ó Cadhain advocated an alliance of the language movement with the social struggles of the working class, but to most people this just sounds like some fanciful communist theory rather than anything they can relate to.
A more fruitful approach for language activists might be to seek the active support of politicians across all the political parties who are thought to be supportive and to target for negative campaigning those who are known to be opposed. The upcoming European and local elections could provide some opportunities for effective electoral interventions.
I hope to take part in the forthcoming demonstration in the company of my children and grandchildren. I want Irish to remain part of the public life of our society and over time to be supported to enrich the lives of others as it has enriched my own life.
This demonstration is in support of people’s right to use the language in their dealings with the Irish State. It’s really about the right of citizens to use Irish in public, and not to be restricted to its use just as a private language between family and friends.
It is widely recognised now that a language cannot survive unless it is given space to breathe in the public arena. The attitude to Irish among some commentators reminds me of what used to be a common attitude to gay sexuality – it’s okay between consenting adults in private but not to be seen or heard in public!
If almost 100 years after the 1916 Rising Irish citizens are to be deprived of the right to use Irish in their official dealings with the Irish state, you’d have to wonder was there much point in having a separate Irish state at all. Ironically it seems as if the Irish language now has more official support at European level in Brussels than it has in our own country.
The protest on Saturday will give people an opportunity to demonstrate their support for Irish as she struggles to retain her perilous place in the public and cultural life of our nation.
Seán Mag Leannáin was a Principal Officer in the Civil Service for 15 years up to his retirement in December 2009.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
It was successive ministers of Education who killed the Irish language. Irish is taught in our schools as if the child is already fluent in it. I still to this day quote from Irish language poems etc. that are of absolutely no use to me now and I have absolutely no idea what they mean.
@ Dean – spot on. We were taught Irish verb tenses and noun cases without being told what these actually were. I was in 6th year before the teacher actually told us what the Tuiseal Ginideach actually was – it was drilled into us how to do it though.
Tuiseal Giniunach surely no an bfuil dul amuigh orm? Ta se seaxca bliana o bhios ar scoil.
I would hate to see our native language disappear. My children went to a Gaelscoil and are fluent speakers. It shouldn’t make a difference whether the majority of our generation can’t and don’t want to speak it. The problem has always been how it was taught in most schools. More emphasis needs to be placed on the oral aspect from an early age, once that is mastered, the stories and poems become much easier to understand. It is having a major revival and has never been more popular. Like everything else with this Government, this is purely a money driven exercise. I, for one, shall be attending that march on the 15th.
@ Andrea – while it’s great you sent your children to a Gaelscoil, apart from bonus points in the Leaving Cert what benefit is it to them, honestly?
Well, there’s no bonus points in the LC anymore so it had nothing to do with that. I just wanted them to speak their native language and to fully understand their culture. I am proud of my Irish history and of my language. The same can be asked of lots of subjects. What use is Geography if you don’t plan on a career involving it? You don’t use the things you learned on a daily basis. Same goes for Music, Art, History etc. Subjects are only practical if you need them in your chosen career.
Sorry. I thought there was a bonus if you did the whole leaving cert through Irish.
At least geography, music, etc have a relevance to the modern world and people from other countries can relate
I’m trying to think of the last time I referred to Pythagorus’ theorem,oh,I never did!
what benefit music, poetry, art, sport? Some benefits are more hidden than others, this doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
@ Mary – I wouldn’t send my children to a Gaelscoil either but unlike you I wouldn’t criticise and insult someone for doing so.
Padraig, I wasn’t insulting those other subjects. I was just pointing out that they would not be considered to be practical subjects.
Journal staff – Mary Lyons is a very obvious and pathetic troll. Please ban their IP address from using your app.
Also the ability the learn one language encourages learning of a modern European language.
I know Andrea, it was in reply to Edmond’s comment .
@ Padraig – I can’t see how your comment is relevant to anything I said but I’ll respond if you care to elaborate.
You’ve lost any argument (discussion) when you start insulting people,,
What an ignorant comment Mary. Are you seriously saying Andrea is a bad parent for sending her children to a Gaelscoil and wanting them to learn their native tongue? Both my children attend a Gaelscoil and I am delighted they are now bilingual and have a greater capacity to learn other languages. It could be argued that it is ‘bad parenting’ to impose monolingualism on a child. Of course it isn’t but I am just highlighting the sheer stupidity of your viewpoint.
I use it every day in the construction industry.
Usaisaim é gach lá in san tionscal togáiliocht.
You are quite right when you say, “More emphasis needs to be placed on the oral aspect from an early age”.
I traveled from the Arctic Circle and down the coast of Finland to Helsinki last year and found that everybody under the age of around 70 spoke perfect English. When I asked a lady how they spoke such perfect English,she explained that as the Finnish and Hungarian languages are almost impossible to learn, they have to learn other languages to communicate with people outside the country, so from 3rd. class in the National School, they learn Swedish, Russian, German and English and are equally as fluent in each language. When I asked how they achieved this she told me that they concentrate entirely on the oral aspect of the languages. They don’t bother with grammar or the written language. They just learn to speak it! They also watch a lot of foreign TV stations and that I suppose explains why they all speak English with an American accent! :-)
Tá Gaeilige go hiontach! A mhuintir na hÉireann, Tabhair bhur gcúram di, mar bíonn sí ar nós óir!
Some people seem to think of Irish as the subject that made no sense at school or that they hated. Irish is, like any other language, taught by wrote learning, grammar, the dreaded modh conníolach and just reading and writing. Nobody can adequately learn a language or learn to love a language that way.
I say do away with the pens and books and simply learn to talk to one another as gaeilge.
I hated Irish until I went to an all Irish secondary school and I learned to love it. I finally saw it as part of our identity, our history, I saw it as something that sets us apart from the rest of europe.
Don’t hate it because it is badly taught, instead let’s alter how it is taught.
The Irish language has always been too political in this country. Trying to shame people for not speaking a language has never worked. National identity isn’t a tick the box exercise. Someone who speaks Irish, plays hurling, goes to mass and plays trad music isn’t more or less Irish than anyone else. Being Irish and living in the UK, I’m always aware of how culturally different the Irish are. I’m never insecure about my natural identity even though I don’t speak Irish. National identity is not just about the language we speak or native traditions. Publishing every boring government document in Irish won’t help revive a language nor will trying to shame people into speaking it as some sort of national duty. Having it as a compulsory subject and teaching children as if it’s their first language doesn’t help either. If we step back from all that, we would realise that Irish will only see a true revival if we teach it like any other language and focus on the spoken language. It will also only be revived if people learn it for the right reasons i.e because they want to! It would be sad to see the language decline but it seems that both the government and many of the language’s advocates are going about reviving it in the wrong way.
Do you see any connection between being Irish and speaking Irish?
Of course. Most Irish speakers are Irish so that’s a strong connection. But I don’t think speaking Irish makes anyone ‘more’ Irish.
It’s hard to say that one person is more Irish than another, it’s such a subjective thing. Speaking Irish on a daily basis helps me stay connected to a feeling of Irishness that I have, whatever that means. It’s great that people find the subject relevant enough to discuss. Ádh mór
I couldn’t see any other European country dropping their native tongue. Would Spain drop Spanish ? Disgraceful people are just to lazy to learn their own language and yet they say their Irish and can’t speak a word of it
Spanish is there natrual tongue. So why would they change it !!!!. Like it or not irish is not ours. Were hard pushed for kids to learn a more relevant tongue for the 21 century .ie french. German. Chinese for business.
That depends on what part of Spain you hail from , Basque for example ,
Nobody in the rest of the world cares the blind bit of notice of the differences we so cherish within these Islands , Irish. English,Scots, Welsh, Cornish.
What do you care about Flemish?
Or where the boarder with Belgium and France is?
Wake up ! Nobody cares , it’s all about Humans communicating , stop wasting time and energy on difference, concentrate on bigger and more important issues .
@ Hill 16 – Spain isn’t the only country that speaks Spanish though. 20 countries have Spanish as main language and at least 6 have it as a significant second.
So with 410 million speakers you can’t really compare Spanish and Irish.
And no Venezuelan feels less Venezuelan for speaking Spanish but we are fed this BS that we cannot be Irish without speaking Gaelic.
You cant really compare the two. That would be like us dropping our main language that we use to communicate. Spain doesn’t have a language that it doesn’t use any more.
How about you go and learn the different between “to” and “too” before you start lecturing people about language.
Speaking Irish, Eric, not Gaelic. Gaelic is a family of languages. And the Venezuelan comparison is not the same. Venezuelans are the descendants of Spaniards and natives who were forced at musket point to speak Spanish. Having said that, not being able to speak Irish in my mind, and in the minds of most Gaeilgeoirí, does not make someone less Irish.
Brian. Since when were the Irish people pure blood Gaels? Never in history. The Venezuelan analogy is not wholly inaccurate. Look at the surnames common in Ireland, they betray a recent ancestry far from wholly Gaelic. English is not the foreign language some would have us believe.
I never said the Irish were pure blooded anything. And I never said English was a foreign language. Sheesh, if your line of arguing is based on lying about what others say then it doesn’t say much about the strength of your own arguments. Plus, you don’t seem very good at learning. I’ve told you at least 6 or 7 times previously about what Gaelic means and it still doesn’t compute with you. You’re so blinded by your own hatred. Maybe that blind hatred is also the reason you put words in other people’s mouths.
Brian what you need to understand is that Eric is one of those crackpots who refuses to call the language Irish because calling it Gaelic somehow devalues the connection between the language and this country.
I have come across a few people like this – one guy was adamant that the language couldn’t be “Irish” because he was “Irish” and couldn’t speak it.
Of course, he said this in English, but didn’t seem to appreciate what this said about his identity, according to his own logic.
Unless people actually speak it day-to-day, every government effort is pointless. Change the educational approach so that children learn to speak it and theres a chance. I spent 13 years of my life learning a language and still could not hold a reasonable conversation in it.
Hi Karl I agree with you. However a critical step towards making Irish a more day-to-day user friendly language is to move forward from the educational debate to a broader debate on how to capitalize on the thousands of fluent Irish speakers completing the leaving cert every year. To get real and measured value for the time and money invested in the language we need a paradigm shift regarding the debate on how to strengthen the langauge.
Approaching the issue of creating capable Irish speakers is very important and needs radical improvement but the brewing issue is how best to transform these capable speakers into functional day-to-day speakers who would then go and pass on the language organically to next generation through the family.
Educational reform can only go so far without wider societal reforms that would allow and encourage Irish language use on a day-to-day basis. We are over reliant on the educational system in creating Irish speakers and it is completely unrealistic to have given schools the sole responsibility for Irish language revitalisation.
Dáil Éireann has failed miserably in one of its primary reasons of existence, if not the primary reason, and they should act on this failure before it’s too late as the article highlights. On the other hand it would seem wiser for the Irish speaking communities and all Irish people with an interest in the future of the language not to disempower themselves by handing all the responsibility to the state. *rant over :-)
There’s nothing wrong with the Irish language. It is the sanctimonious gaeilgeoirs that I can’t stand.
The sanctimonious Irish speakers?
If you know anything about the history of the language it is clear that it was English speakers who felt morally and culturally superior to the Irish speaking plebs, and it is still that way today in many cases.
That sanctimony, which in many cases extends into vitriol and even anti-Irish racism from many in the media and in the different government departments (and filters down to some of the public) is one of the main reasons the growth of Irish has floundered.
You’re clearly another one with a chip on your shoulder about the language for one reason or other. Don’t take your repressed rage out on the Language and its speakers who you probably have had minimal contact with throughout your life, and know little about.
A good article. Language rights are human rights. You can either be a whinging clown nobody listens to or come out and march for a progressive cause that, if achieved, in the long run will benefit not just Irish speakers but wider Irish society!
I think you just proved Henry’s point, Kerron.
Firstly, as for chips on shoulders, you are clearly well balanced – with a chip on each shoulder. Secondly, the main reason that the language has not prospered is that the vast majority of Irish people are not interested. You can’t seem to accept that.
I am learning Irish at the moment and I can honestly say I haven’t encountered one ounce of the sanctimony you mentioned. I go to Irish classes, and my teachers and others who are more advanced in my class have been nothing but helpful. If I make mistakes or mispronounce something, which I invariably do in these early stages, they help and correct me, but not in a condescending way. I’ve even been to the Dingle peninsula where I was greeted with an enthusiastic welcome by most, or a sort of shy curiosity by some, considering the fact that I a Dublin learner. I wonder how the same people who complain about the Irish language now, would actually feel if we lost it. They’d feel differently, i mo thuairim :)
“According to our Constitution Irish is our national language. ”
Ah, yes, the same constitution which begins ‘ In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred, We, the people of Éire, Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ…..”
The methods of learning our native tongue is as outdated as the preamble in our constitution. It needs to be removed as a core subject on our school curriculum, and be offered as a second language, taught via the same modern methods we learn other languages. Forcing people to learn something leads to resentment, and will effectively only ever keep our native language on life support.
Irish took up a sizeable proportion of my leaving cert. I missed practical pivotal subjects like tax, finance management ( buying a mortgage health insurance pensions managing monthly wages), cooking, sex ed, relationships, career studies (who pays what amount what does each career entail), mental health, politics, more focus on physical ed, nutrition. Irish language is historic and traditional yes but crucial life education is far more important than cultural subjects and that is a 100% fact. Why hasn’t the above been brought in. Let people have the choice of Irish and religion. Fact is religion hasn’t ever been proved. Ghost.stories.
Brilliant Sean my feelings exactly.
None of those things would be taught in stead of Irish if it was removed as a compulsory subject
Even if true, dropping this pointless politically imposed subject would leave more time for the other subjects that are taught.
Karen comments like these are cloudy ambiguous and stubborn. Anyone who lives life realizes that all the above are crucial. Your comment would get a pile more credence from me if you had
A) a specific reason as to why not
B) if you don’t believe I them a reason why.
It would give your comment a lot more structure and weight.
These are crucial life skills not taught. If they are not taught you keep asking why until you get an answer.
Read up on Seán Sabhat lol
He clearly understood the importance of the language you are derogating to a lesser position
Interestingly I’m extremely fluent in Irish. I stem from a west cork town and my pedigree are strong advocates of the language.
I love Louis de paor. I love john spillane and am familliar with a large amount f Irish poetry and think the language is amazing here.
I have gleaned a shit load of education, life and work experience to know that you should respect those who choose to embrace the language, however, they in just recourse should not force it upon others.
Especially when
A) the language that exists now is not the Gaelic of old.
B) there was a language before Gaelic
C) there is an abundance of subjects I have previously made reference to that are of far more value and currency then gaeilge. Needs versus would be nice to haves. They are black and white simple and logical
An bhfuil céad agam dul amach go dtí an leithreas más é do thoil é
Amadán
Sorry?
Ha ha James,I always liked the ‘más é do thoil é’ – ‘if it is your will’ like a jester asking the king can he nip out to the jacks
It’s a clever in jest comment. These comments have big places in these forums.
People “thumbs down” to troll I think.
People post ‘An bhfuil cead agam dul amach go dtí an leithreas’ on every single article with any connection to the Irish Language to troll I think.
Great article. It’s a pity most of the comments here didn’t actually read the article and just decided to comment on their own thoughts on the language. I will be there on the 15th to support the language and it’s future in Ireland
Two things I want to say- (1) irish is not dead, and it pisses me of when people say it is- that’s just pure ignorance. (2) people suggesting that irish speakers look at non-irish speakers as somehow less irish. I’ve never met any who are like this, and if I did, I’d think they’re just as ignorant as people in point 1
Then why do we force children to learn this language? Is it not because without it we cannot be ‘really irish’?
That’s a tricky one Eric, forcing people to do things that they don’t want to do does seem unreasonable, however I never enjoyed religion and history at school. I was however forced to learn them, and accept that they contributed to a well rounded education. English is the global language for sure, but if the whole world could speak only English, wouldn’t it make the world a little bit more boring?
Without doubt one of the greatest wastes of money in this country is the Irish language.
Think about something as simple as a road sign. How much extra does it cost to have the Irish version added to it? Then multiply that by the number of road signs in both languages.
I know I’ve never looked for signs to “Baile Atha Cliath” but only “Dublin”.
Absolutely crazy waste money, time and resources on a dead language.
On the flip side, we could question the rationale for having them in English. I agree, having them in both languages is more or less pointless, but it may be reassuring to some people.
Droichead Atha (bridge of the ford) means something, but Drogheda is essentially anglicised gibberish. It is also impossible for Americans to get.
Again, Dublin is an anglicised version of Dubhlinn (black pool). It is not a good example for an example of an English name.
so what if americans don’t ‘get it’! do we now make decisions on what the fecking yanks like or dislike?
Most of the multinationals providing jobs in Ireland are from the US.
If the “Gathering” was a success this year, it was because of the yanks.
I can then think of two government ministers (Bruton, Varadhkar) who will be all ears to the opinions of the yanks.
Agree 100%. Any bit of success we have enjoyed is down to our speaking English.
@Eoin
Cluain Meala for Clonmel looks reasonable until you scratch the surface and discover that it is an entirely unattested made up Irishism. The original Irish name is lost for all time. This is not uncommon.
I worked with Aran Islanders for many years. I found that every one of them had the same attitude towards people trying to learn Irish. When the news in Irish came on television they always got up and walked away. When you asked them why they did this, they always said that they were unable to understand “book Irish” i.e. Irish spoken with a foreign accent. They wouldn’t bother to help you learn Irish either as you would end up speaking it with the aforementioned “foreign accent”. With an attitude like this by native speakers, it’s no wonder the language is dying.
This is a very interesting piece about the future of the Irish language, a subject in which I feel needs to be addressed seriously. I consider myself very fortunate to have been raised amongst gaelgeóirí so my Irish comes second nature to me, I can think, talk and dream as gaeilge and it’s very different from doing the same in English. The structure of a sentence and the phrasing of words in Irish can often sound much more poetic than its English translation. It would be incredible to think that some day everyone living in Ireland could have a good level of conversational Irish so they could too experience what it’s like to think, talk or even daydream as gaeilge!
This proposed meeting and march for the survival of the Irish language is an important show of support, I can’t make it as I’ll be struggling with my Spanish in Cuba but I encourage anyone who doesn’t want their native tongue to become extinct to show their support come rain come shine. Tír gan teanga tír gan anam.
Your comment is very interesting
“what had previously seemed as dead as Latin suddenly began to come alive for me”
Latin is not dead. Irish is dead. A dead defunct language that in my estimation should be optional in schools, at best. I’d much prefer my children to learn Latin than Irish.
Eventually, we’ll have to grow up and accept that one can learn Irish if they wish, and you can not learn it if you wish too. It’s all getting pretty pathetic now.
Personally, I’m happy to leave Irish to people in the Gaeltacht, Michael D, and Irish teachers. There is nothing immoral about letting go of the past. There is nothing immoral, unpatriotic, anti irish about my post either.
I do not want my two year old daughter learning Irish to keep other people happy. In fact, I resent it.
Forcing Irish in schools is immoral.
That’s a lot of inputs to this stream by you Eric.
No-one is challenging your Irishness by speaking Irish; try not to project your identity problems onto those of us who try and speak Irish.
If the existence of the Irish language gets too much for your tricolour-wrapped personal problems, take up mindfullness or Buddhism.
Deep breaths….., it’s not a conspiracy against me….., it’s not a conspiracy against me…
I’m a Welshman living in Galway. My son is Irish and doesn’t talk yet, but I speak to him exclusively ‘yn Cymraeg’ and so do my family back home. My wife is from Wexford and speaks to him in English.
Cymraeg faces the same problems back in Wales, but it’s possible to conduct your day to day business in Welsh and I’ve not seen that happen here in Ireland.
I’d like for my son to speak Irish. I don’t think the language is dead, just in trouble. I have this to say though:
Welsh isn’t my mother tongue because of bilingual government forms, nor due to my education (I didn’t like the subject in school). It’s because my parents passed it on to me. The reason most of the Irish people I know, and a lot of the Welsh people I know, don’t speak their native tongue is because a previous generation of theirs decided they would make a better living using English.
Irish will die because people are obsessed with the monetary value of things. And it’s to their eternal shame. There are thoughts that I can express in Welsh that it’s not even possible to say in English. Every language is an amazing human invention and to lose one is lamentable.
Ireland won’t lose native language forever, thanks to Polish, Lithuanian and Latvian immigrant children.
Being able to speak multiple languages is very normal.
Níl fhios agam
If this government had its way , we would forget all about Ireland and our culture , and become good little europeans , I’m embarrassed as an Irish Citizen , not to be able to Speak our native language , something I must remedy .
The language uniting all the Irish people is English.
Tá mé ag foghlaim Gaeilge faoi láthair Taim ag freastal ranganna Gaeilge le Gael Linn. Nuair a bhí me og, nuair a bhí mé ar scoil, fuath mé ag foghlaim Gaeilge, ach anois, is brea liom é. Tir gan teanga, tir gan anam :)
You’ve no idea how nationalistic that comment sounds!
Get rid of the themes, old poems and stories in the Irish curriculum and then we might have some hope. Having to talk about the alliteration, hyperbole and symbolism in an Irish poem isn’t going to help you learn it. Beatha teanga i a labhairt.
God yes, actually get rid of the poems totally, they’re totally inappropriate for learners who mostly can’t complete a grammatically correct sentence, even in Gaelscoils. Could you imagine going to beginners German and being taught nineteenth-century poems to learn by heart? Or advanced German for that matter…
It really is ridiculous! We have to learn the same kind of stuff for it as we do for English and we’re fluent in that. Its so frustrating because if they totally changed the curriculum I really don’t think it would be a dying language. They could do so many things to it to make it interesting and inspire love of the language.
I find quite incredible the amount of people who don’t care about the Irish language and don’t see the point of fighting for it. I am native of Brittany ( in France) and there is a debate in the government at the moment to ratify the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages. The majority of Breton people are fighting so that their native language can be more recognised. It’s mad to see such a difference of opinion. Also, to everyone who says that children would be better off learning Chinese or other languages, I think that the more languages you learn, the easier it gets. I studied Breton at school ( it was only an optional subject), and it didn’t stop me from learning English, Spanish and Italian. Unfortunately my parents couldn’t transmit the Breton language to me because their generation was forbidden from speaking it at school, and that’s how it slowly disappeared. I don’t understand how some Irish people wouldn’t care about the disappearance of a big part of their history and culture…
It seems to me that we Irish have no pride. The Welsh have retained their language. Many Scots still speak Gaidhlig na hAlbain daily. The Afrikanere have retained their language. The Israelis have revived a dead language.
What is wrong with the Irish? Gan teanga, gan tir.
Maith thú…
Have the Welsh really retained it though? Obviously there are more Welsh speakers than Irish speakers, but unfortunately Welsh saw a huge fall-off in the number of speakers over the twentieth century. And if you go onto a Welsh website, you will see the exact same debate about the Welsh language.
If you go to Wales you will see the Welsh flag flying from all public buildings, not the Union Flag. All road signs have thw Welsh words first. You cannot get a job as a schoolteacher without being able to speak Welsh. They are a proud people, bail o Dhia ortha.
It’s very sad to see so many angry comments about the Irish Language calling it ‘pointless’ ‘dead’ and a ‘waste of time’. People say it shouldn’t be a compulsory subject because we’re forced to learn it and its useless, yet I haven’t heard anyone reasonable calling for abstract Mathematics, 18th Century English Literature or Irish Pagan and Celtic History to be stricken from the curricula of our children just because they don’t have an ‘immediate and practical use’ (ie. they don’t help us earn money). There are many more things that we study in English, History, Geography, Science etc. that bore the pants of many of us and have little practical use outside of a small minority of career choices. So what should we do? Get rid of all these things? Have we really become so sterile in our approach to education that we who call ourselves Irish cannot see the point in learning something that teaches us about our ancestry, our heritage, the foundations of our ‘Irish-isms’ and turn of phrase as well as helping us to speak another language, which itself greatly helps our ability to learn 3rd and 4th languages. There is so much more to be learned in school, and in life, than what we can call ‘practical’ as judged by the harsh light of an increasingly consumerist and materialistic society. But should we just abandon so much of what is taught in schools just be abandoned because of this? I agree that we could do with a change in how the Irish language is taught (and other subjects for that matter), perhaps Irish needs more focus on the spoken language and with the literature side kept as an optional subject (much like Applied Maths), but to withdraw funding and support and to stop trying to keep the language alive would be an inexcusable case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and I really don’t think that future generations of Irish would thank us for letting it happen.
“et I haven’t heard anyone reasonable calling for abstract Mathematics, 18th Century English Literature or Irish Pagan and Celtic History to be stricken from the curricula”
True, but learning Irish is a staple in primary and secondary. The time and resources allocated to it far outweigh the other subjects you listed.
In the 2006 census the number who said that they spoke Irish daily was 72,153
In the 2011 census the number who said that they spoke Irish daily was 77,185
This is an increase of 5,032.
An increase of almost 7% in the number of people speaking Irish on a daily basis. (6.97%)
However during the same period the population increased by 341,421 (7.45%)
As such in percentage terms the number of people who speak Irish daily as a percentage of the population has actually decreased.
72,152/4,239,848 = 1.70178% in 2006
77,185/4,581,269 = 1.68480% in 2011
Hold on maybe the increase in population was made up of of loads of people who can’t speak the language?
Nope – there was an increase in the amount of people who can speak Irish of over 110,000.
The situation is that in 2011 there was 1.77 million people who said they were capable of speaking Irish, yet only 77,185 do so on a daily basis.
Basically Irish people have overwhelmingly chosen to not speak the Irish language.
It’s very easy to blame the education system but the fact is that it is obviously managing to educate people to be able to speak the language but the vast majority of the Irish public choose not to.
The fact that in percentage terms the number of people speaking Irish in daily life between 2006 and 2011 declined should surely lead one to wonder if all the money spent by government on Irish should be investigated in depth.
I have serious doubts about the number of people who say they can speak Irish, and would expect the majority have little more than the stereotypical phrases. If you tried them with a document like a piece of legislation, or even a decent random smattering of news headlines most would be struggling to read it, and far less still could readily compose their own sentences to discuss it.
I would agree about the actual number is probably inflated but the actual ability level of the people who say that they can speak Irish is not the important point.
What the stats do show is that bar a tiny percentage of Irish people, for the overwhelming majority of people who can speak Irish, it’s the case that the Irish language has no place in their daily life.
Basically forcing people to learn Irish on a compulsory basis is futile when you see that the vast majority of people don’t actually want to speak Irish on a daily basis.
Or to put it another way: 4,426,899 people don’t speak Irish on a daily basis. And of those who do, how many are Irish teachers imposing it on the next generation?
Damn your facts.
Why shouldn’t the less than 2% our cent of the population impose a non native tongue on the rest of us.
Surely the Basques and Catalans impose their language on the test of Spain too ?
OK to be serious though how many countries in the world impose a minority language of around 1% on the remainder through the education system and governance ?
If you want to learn Irish more power to you but let’s be fair teenagers should have more decisions on what subjects they choose to be of benefit for the next 50 years of their lives.
Let Irish flourish in the Gaeltacht and not be imposed upon the majority against the wishes.
I would favour the language more if it wasn’t tainted so much with intolerant nationalism. It’s more a tribal thing these days. So many parents want their kids to learn without knowing it themselves.
All the kids themselves if they would rather learn Irish as opposed to other ones or even computer languages.
More science I say less Irish because we don’t use it and fact is its on life support. Let it thrive or die on its own.
The case for Irish being one of the three core subjects is long past.
It needs to be demoted in favour of another language or science subject or computer language.
I hate sitting on the train and hearing the announcer speak it every 10 minutes even though nobody speaks it as their first language. It is annoying hearing it every on Irish radio as well. Basically, I am sick of the government shoving it in my ears every chance they get. Say what you want about the Brits, but English is the best language ever. It is so inclusive of other languages. Ask anyone who doesn’t speak it as their primary, and they will tell you they wish they did
Why does the State think it has the right to force its idea of Irish culture on us?
I speak English. I’m perfectly happy with this. I am all the more Irish for doing so as all Irish people can speak English.
Eric, pal, you’re embarrassing yourself now…
Lay off the wacky backy of whatever it is your puffing and commit yourself to a place where there are lots of men in white suits and the walls are padded
Wacky Backy? For imagining that the State was there to serve the citizen? Of course this is Ireland, a nation of slaves.
YOURMAN you don’t speak the language, a majority do not speak the language but that is not the same as ‘nobody speaks the language’ some do and would like the right to be able to do so with the state, allowing that right or putting up with irish spoken on the train would be ‘inclusive of other languages’. i think you mean english is popular and widely spoken as a second language. yes you are right on that.
People like Eric De Red and Edmund Murray seem to have a bull-headed, narrow-minded hatred of the language and the way they belittle it and those who speak it comes across as racist. It comes down to this – some treasure it, some have a passing interest in it and others couldn’t give a hoot. And that’s fine, nobody is any more or less Irish, but those who choose to speak it should not be associated with negative politics or elitism just because they’d like to have it better acknowledged and further strengthened throughout the island with proper commitment from the gov’t. To each their own, this is the 21st century, but please don’t paint speakers as backward or ignorant just because you don’t engage in it in your life. Beidh mise ag máirseáil i Baile Átha Cliath ar an 15ú lá ar son mo chearta daonna, le bród agus intinn oscailte i dtreo an todhchaí.
@Sean and @Eric – lads what’s with the continual negative points about the irish language??? What do you hold against it? I think that you should accept that for some people the irish language is something that they hold very close to their hearts. It is their constitutional right to use the language if they choose, as you have chosen English. Live and let live!
The whole pretext that we little citizens must all learn Gaelic is racist. Just look at the picture at the head of this article. What is wrong with speaking English?
You’re ignorance is ruining my Saturday
What sort of warped thinking have you that says learning the historic language of your country which was nearly wiped out by racist colonials is racist??
In any right thinking person’s mind reversing the language shift is progressive and lifts us out of an inferiority complex borne out of being subjected to state sanctioned racism over hundreds of years
You have a tri-colour as your avatar, designed by a Young Irelander. The Young Irelanders saw the language as an inclusive entity that could unite Catholic and Protestant just like the design of the flag. Racist? lol
Your foolishness is quite astonishing.
No one is insulting anyone here. If you have a specific explicit reason state as to why/ back it up and state it with examples/facts/reasons why/details/specifics/numbers/articles. Otherwise you are throwing out loose comments and insulting at will. Actually it makes the point you are saying seem weak and it isn’t good for these forums. The funny thing is I suspect you may have a good point or something to add somewhere.
Actually Sean, many of these comments are insulting to people who are attempting to keep the language alive. It is insulting to me when people claim the language to be dead. My children speak Irish every day and they are very much alive. If people truly understood how are language was ripped from us perhaps they might have more clarity. Irish didn’t just fade out. it was literally beaten out of us as little as 150 years ago. The National Schools were established in the 1830s and handed over to the Catholic Church in 1838. They were under strict orders that all tuition was to be in English and children were to be beaten for every word of Irish they spoke. Sometimes they were sent home and their parents were told to beat them for the crime of speaking their own tongue. (Read The Politic of Language in Ireland by Tony Crowley) We have a deeply uncomfortable relationship with our language because of this past and that seems to result in a fierce aggressiveness against the language. I for one will be at the Lá Mór na Gaeilge with my family and I encourage others to drop their resentment against the language and come too.
Exactly, Irish has been destroyed by occupants. You were forced to speak English for hundred of years and that is how it has become your first language… Don’t loose your native language. Instead of finishing it off you should do as much as you can to keep it alive and make it grow.
You could be bilingual just like that… This is really amazing. And it’s true, if you know second language it is easier to learn another one, it opens your mind and your world.
I’m living in Poland but I have been interested in Irish for many years and last summer I was in Gweedore for a Irish summer course. It was fabulous. I am aware of a fact that the language has been taught badly in the past, among few books I used there was only ONE where I found a dialogue about good Irish language teacher…. -.- Because of the language I loved the music as well, I play Irish music on the fiddle. I’d love to move to Ireland one day and have Irish speaking children in the future.
I have been asked several times why I’m learning such useless language, but I then I always explain what leaded to the situation we know and people are usually shocked. Here in Poland we had similar situation for many years, for example during the World War 2 people were killed because of learning Polish language and history. I also speak Czech and Czech nation faced same problems, the language it has been reconstructed in 19th century from rural language plus Polish and Russian and this is how it survived.
I believe that Irish won’t extinct but it all depends from you, us… It’s tough, but don’t close yourself into small world of English because it’s easy and commonly known so there’s no need to speak other language.
It’s a pointless language, it has no use or benefit in the modern world.Why not teach students a language that will benefit them in the real world and not waste their time and stress levels studying for a Irish exam.
exactly, something like Spanish or Mandarin, since the whole point of language is to be able to communicate with other people. and we have a language we can communicate with already so there is no real need to learn Irish only for nostalgic reasons
it would be far more useful if they put one of the Australian aboriginal languages on the school curriculum, at least it might come in useful some day when the whole country has to emigrate to Australia
Why is it a choice between only one second language?
Once you learn a second it is far easier to pick up a 3rd, 4th, 5th!
socio-linguists have conclusively proven this fact, yet the anti-Irish crowd only want Irish people speaking English and Mandarin.
Go brown nose Kevin Myers :-P
And the bit the Irish language hobbyist forget to mention is those benefits require deep immersion in both languages from an early age, something that would not be possible for the vast majority of Irish people in relation to the Irish language.
I’ve yet to meet a person fluent in Irish who isn’t also fluent or close to it in another language. Kids immersed in Irish from Naionra level pick up French/German/Spanish quicker and more easily than those who don’t.
Check out second level Gaelscoileanna results for European languages …
While I don’t agree with those who actively hate Irish and want to see it disappear, I do understand the frustration felt that so much money has been pumped into its preservation with little tangible result.
Like many people I disliked it in school until I had a teacher who instilled a love of the language in me.I now live abroad but still practice my Irish, I am also fluent in three other European languages and Irish in no way hindered my learning of those. I am now teaching it to my two young daughters, who are already bilingual (Spanish and English), and as they have no inherited ‘hang-ups’ absolutely love practising Irish and showing off to their friends!
I can see merit in teaching it in primary school with an emphasis on speaking and as an optional subject in secondary with the curriculum based on the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages (CEFR).
However,the language needs to be accessible in a practical sense. How easy is it to actually use Irish in Ireland? How does one know that they can go into a shop or pub and ask for something or use a few words without been thought of as a geansai-wearing radical or meet someone with the vitriolic attitude of some of the commenters here?
Perhaps Irish language groups could come up with a program with local businesses that are friendly towards Irish or have a staff member who can speak some,.The business could place a sign or sticker on the door which would say that you are welcome to use Irish in their premises. These could be colour coded to show what level can be used from ‘Cúpla Focal’ to ‘Líofa’. People could download an app with would indicate where those businesses are in their local area.That way if you want to use a bit of Irish you’ll know where to go. No need for government involvement or politics, just normal people who share an interest in this particular part of our culture making it easier to enjoy and use for all.
Once again this argument is trotted out that we can’t truly appreciate or understand our history without learning the language.
The fact is that all languages evolve, & the Irish spoken today probably bears little resemblance to that spoken just a few hundred years ago. Yet modern Irish is presented as some kind of faithful insight into our history.
The argument could be extended to Latin, or Pictish
Of course we are all pure blood Gaels who always spoke the language. Fact is genetic analysis has shown that the people in Ireland were here long before Gaelic arrived in these shores.
Pictish disappeared centuries ago. It was replaced by Gaelic.
Irish is not a dead language as long as there are people speaking it on a daily basis(thinking of Gaeltachts here). Personally speaking I hated the language growing up due to how it was taught – until I was in 6th yr and the syllabus changed (no more Péig for me). Nowadays a few of the people who I work with are not from Ireland and are interested in the language, a new dawn perhaps?
Always hated Irish in school..
I haven’t one good argument for keeping this language. Seriously read the comments
A) Irish ppl were here before Gaelic.
B) we force on our young. We teach it dis incentivizing way also.
C) it has no value bar tradition and culture.
D) other languages are way more valuable in an economy screaming out for languages.
E) Finance management, nutrition, sex ed, more pe, life relationships, wills pensions, insurance, tax system, mortgages, property market, career guides, career preparation, alcohol and drug awareness, foreign languages to a business standard are all far more currency. These = “needs”. Irish = cultural “would like to have”.
I know what I would choose if I had the choice. It’s rare on these forums where not one argument has been made for the alternative. And remember this language is not as cultural as one might think it has changed massively since old Gaelic and even before the old Gaelic we spoke a different language. So I don’t see how we keep it going. Possibly old institutionalised people who can’t think outside of box.
We’ve moved on Sean. We’ve made some progress where the Irish language is concerned. We’ve decided to revitalise it via having Irish speaking voice over artists overdub the muppet show on TG4.
I agree fully with your posts.
“Possibly old institutionalised people who can’t think outside of box”
And posters with their names in Irish that appear only on articles about the Irish language, and tell us about its great significance.
loose language = loose culture etc
I’ve read the comments I find quite incredible the amount of people who don’t care about the Irish language and don’t see the point of fighting for it. I’m a native of Brittany and in France, at the moment ,there is a debate in the government to ratify the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages. The majority of Breton people are fighting so that their native language can be more recognised. It’s mad to see such a difference of opinion… I learned Breton at school ( it was an option, it’s not compulsory at school) and it didn’t stop me from learning English, Spanish and Italian as well. Unfortunately my parents couldn’t transmit the Breton language to me because their generation was forbidden from speaking it at school and that’s how the practice slowly disappeared. A language is part of a culture and an identity, and it’s quite sad to see that some people don’t care about it…
An bhfuill cad agaim dul godti an lethoris ma se do hulla?
Táim ag siúl go mór leis an Lá Mór :)
Its their choice, you cannot force people to do something if they dont want to do it voluntarly, i was educated in the fifties and the language was only taught as a means to get a job in the civil service,and then never used again outside the place of employment,thus my family had to emmigrate to find work because the only jobs available here were for Irish speaking civil servants,its no wonder there was a bias against its use with such narrow selfish ideas,its only now in the latter years that i have taken an interest in the language with the help of TG4 Irish speaking programmes, but i have an interest in other languages as well,princibly in the Cajun French/Creole of the southern US.
and in the 50′s the state would not provide local services through irish in irish speaking areas even? either terrible planning or terribly tokinistic.
the failings of the the education system is an interesting discussion all right but the article is about irish language speakers who went through the education system and have the language or grew up in the language but now when engaging with the state, buying stamps, calling the gardai, dealing with revenue, hospitals, social welfare etc are not allowed to use the language by dent of the fact that state employees on the front line can not speak it. This has gone on for 90 years now. this society claims through the laws of the state that they supposedly want to save the irish language, but their behavior tells a different tale. Its also an interesting discussion and worth teasing out.
Culture is a very overrated word usually giving an excuse to fringe fanatics to force something on us . The Irish language is well and truly dead. Bury it and let it go by stopping the institutional abuse of pushing it on us through red-tape channels at every opportunity.
De LURO is the future … “Language for the United Regions of EurOpe”
English is out. No other Europeans can pronounce their “th” ….
LURO is a properly engineered spec. No daft stuff like genders. No daft silent letters like French “t” or Irish “h” or the likes. Meets the most important requirement of all “that adults can learn it”. Kids don’t have to learn language they just acquire it.
Language shift occurred a couple of centuries ago. Deal with it… we are English (or Hiberno-English) speakers.
The whole Dev / Paddy Pee inspired “revivalist” effort has been a failure since 1922. It always will be,as it is an essentially reactionary dogma.
have your say