But Howard,just like the catholic church it is a case of do as I say not as I do.

Why would you find that unusual given that he lives in a constituency which is one of the furthest from Leinster house.

That makes it alright then…

To recap:
If we support the proposed referendum the government will be able to manage it’s finances (which it can’t do now) because Europe will tell it that it has to be fiscally responsible. Fine it if it isn’t. Lend our insolvent government the funds it needs. Who will then continue to pay in full the bondholders of insolvent banks. Makes perfect sense.

“Government failure is always used as an excuse for government expansion. Government THRIVES on crisis and incompetence.” – Jim Babka

Peter: I know exactly where he lives as I live way down in West Cork also. I started work at age 15 and retired aged 66 last year not once in all that time did I or a was I allowed to claim expenses only through PAYE. Why are these parasites allowed to claim the obscenely large expenses in this age of “austerity” that this government have told us is what we are living in. There are 2 Ireland’s. The one that we all live in and the privileged Ireland that TD’s and Senators along with there select friends live in.

Yes indeed and every man woman and child in the state will have to pay back some € 400.000 each

By the same amount? If only that was the case!

Not like I have any time for FG or Harrington but 3879 x 4.5million is 17billion. Even if you cut all the TD’s wages to 30k, cuts all expenses, downsized to 66 TD’s and no Seanad and fire 2/3′s of the Oireachtas and Departmental Staff you wouldnt save the colour of that.

Sheila I would love to give more green thumbs to your post

They should be washing their own damn clothes. What, can they not do things for themselves?

Sorry Sheila your maths are a just a little off. I’m afraid that if we got rid of Dail Eireann altogether it would not alter the State annual overspend by a fraction of one percent!

Thanks guys :-)

To quote the article quoting Noel Harrington, Peter: “We are overspending by €3,879 for every man, woman and child.”. So at least for those in the Dail the 3500 they get to spend on laundry isn’t too far off. They creamed off nearly 6 mill in expenses in 2010 – and look here for the vouching of the expenses:
http://politicalreform.ie/2012/02/06/one-third-of-tds-dont-submit-receipts-for-expenses/
I know that the 6 million won’t get us out the mess we’re in – but to see this kind of money wasted whilst the public are being constantly hit is damned unfair in my book…… Price of everything is going up – groceries, petrol, heating, electricity…………….
And the thing about it in any case, is why are they quoting these figures, when they themselves remain relatively untouched (in the current austere climate) – they should be leading by example…………..

Peter
I’ve a pain in me hole reading figures in these articles and posts. They change every day depending who is quoting them, for what reason the’re being quoted and from what source they’ve been taken. And then guys like you tell us those are the facts! What facts? The fact that the ex Secretary General of the Dept of Finance got in a muddle over a measly 3.6bn! So there’s the figures Peter there’s the fact that Kevin Cardiff couldn’t count his toes.

I’ll give you a few facts. This country is broke while still paying money out in bond payments and promissory thingys. People are on the breadline while this is happening and the government continues to borrow and beg to keep up with the SW and PS pay and day to day ho hum spending. We are borrowing to pay debts and borrowing more to pay it back. How stupid is that and how long will it last?

Sheila, the judicial system is not there for the benefit of those who go through it. The criminal side of it is to maintain order and the civil side is to settle disputes between individuals/companies etc. just because you haven’t “gone through” the system does not mean you don’t benefit from it.

Ultan
I know it’s a bit factious to say this but I can’t help it. When I see Seanie Fitz and a few others looking out over the brass rail of a witness box then I’ll know I’m getting real value from our judicial system. It functions as a pretty good revenue enforcement and collection agency too. Oh, and of course a great spot for the reward of legal practitioners who have danced an oul party tune in their time. And then they have the cheek to charge it up to us at 500 sovs a skull – the cheek of them!

Hey Ultan, cheers for the clarification; I already understood this to be the point.

However when you talk about individuals who use the criminal/civil justice system just remember that there are people who use it and unfortunately there are those that abuse it.

Agreed- pensions too much and over paid but even if we stopped paying all expenses salaries and pensions all together still unfortunately doesn’t make a dent in our expenditure problem. We have a fundamental problem as a country, our basic necessities (not even including servicing debt /guarantees) cost more than our income, it won’t be fixed by spiting politicians although it might make us feel better.

We cant just snap our fingers and have that growth Ciaro.

The governments books look like this in millions

Receipts
Tax Revenue 35,585
Non Tax Revenue 2,496
Capital 1,825
Total Money coming IN 39,906

Expenditure
Current Voted 42,154
Current Non Voted 9,069
Capital Voted (Departmental Expenditure Voted annually by the Dáil) 4,383
Capital Non-voted (Expenditure charged directly under particular legislation) 5,866
Total Money going OUT 61,472

Exchequer Balance -21,566 million

If you knock 10% of the 20533 million Social Protection spend bill thats a saving of €2053million
10% of the 17127 million public pay and pensions bill is 1700million

4% growth in Tax revenue is 1423.4 million

Thats 5176.4 million which does NOT cover the deficit of -21,566 million

How much of the deficit is relating to public spending in Ireland, and how much is related to the bank debt? That would be informative, since the first one is at least nominally within our control.

@skeolawn
DETAILS OF CURRENT AC. RECEIPTS AND EXPENDITURE 2012

Receipts €m
Tax Revenue 35,585
Non-Tax Revenue 2,496
Total 38,081

Expenditure €m
Net Voted (Departmental Expenditure Voted annually by the Dáil) 42,154
Non-voted (Interest on National Debt charged directly on the Central Fund) 7,488
Non-voted (Contribution to EU Budget) 1,340
Non-voted (Oireachtas) 116
Non-voted (Oireachtas and Judiciary Pensions) 53
Non-voted (Other Non-discretionary expenditure charged directly on the Central Fund) 72
Total 51,223

Surplus (Deficit) on Current Account -13,142

DETAILS OF CAPITAL RECEIPTS AND EXPENDITURE 2012

Receipts €m
Total 1,825

Expenditure €m
Total Net Voted Capital Expenditure (ie Capital Projects) 4,383
Payments under the European Communities Acts 830
Advance to Credit Union sector 250
Exchequer Contribution to Insurance Compensation Fund 396
Promissory Note payments to certain banking institutions 3,085
Banking recapitalisation 1,300
Miscellaneous 5
Total 10,249

Surplus (Deficit) on CAPITAL SPENDING -8,424

Public servants should lose another 10% on top of the 11% (minimum) they have already lost? I disagree, public servants have had enough hardship. It’s all very well to give out about the high earners, but most public servants are not high earners and are struggling just like everyone else.

@Marcus Costello – thanks for the data.

Pretty shocking numbers. I don’t see how we’ll be able to borrow our way out of this.

Tom
Whatever about the significance of the ‘figures’, the level of ‘abuse’ is rather significant and informative too!

It allows people a forum as T Ds consistently refuse to reply to e mails calls and letters.They also evade direct questions deliver replies masked with smoke and mirrors.
People are angry very angry yet we are lied to

threatened frightened and we hear today that sick and dying children are suffering because our government can’t find 8 million to make our sick children’s time in hospital a little more bearable.So the anger vents itself in these threads.
It’s real life get used to it !!

There’s 2171 euros a head missing from the breakdown which he doesn’t explain at all. I was interested so I went off to check the original source:

http://noelharrington.com/?p=1074#more-1074

Looks like this is just a stunt. He used this to bash capital spending by FF and PDs. What’s that got to do with our annual deficit?

And what’s it got to do with voting Yes? Vote Yes so Harrington can keep his cushy deficit funded job and very nice expenses?

They arent here to sort out “our” mess, they are here to make more money than the total amount we spent during the naughties.

Frank. Fgs get real. You have to stop expecting outside influence to look after us. Stop electing fools and grow the hell up Ireland please.

@mike wouldn’t they make a lot more money lending to a more stable country for a higher interest rate? For how stable our finances are they are giving us a shockingly good interest rate. But yes we do need to stop relying on outside help and fix the situation internally- first issue would be to balance the amount we spend with the amount we take in. I wouldn’t lend anything to someone who’s basic necessities cost so much more than what they made.

If you hold such strong views,why don’t you run for office? Im guessing that as soon as you are confronted by your constituents that don’t agree with your politics.that you’ll slink away like all armchair politicians.

Yeah, because free legal aid is the only aspect of the judiciary system.

Bringing the top rate of Tax/PRSI to 66% ?
2/3rd’s of someones pay over a certain rate going in tax. don’t know about that.

Other countries take in more, we are wimps to the rich and its time we grew a pair.

what countries have a 66% tax rate at the top end?
Other countries distribute the tax burden more evenly across all income brackets, two thirds of the 2.2m people paying income tax in Ireland paid an average rate of less than 10% ..
I’m all for people who can afford it paying more tax but don’t pretend high earners in this country get off easy.

You do realize your figures are wrong, correct? http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2011/08/people-thrive-more.html . Also note the people are happier there according to that particular article, we should be doing all we can for mental health, our health matters the most. Also when you take the year of 2011, we aren’t even in the top 15 most taxed countries with the top income tax rate being just under 60%, when you add other taxes on to Sweden, it would well exceed 66%.

You do realize your figures are wrong, correct? http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2011/08/people-thrive-more.html . Also note the people are happier there according to that particular article, we should be doing all we can for mental health, our health matters the most. Also when you take the year of 2011. If you are to take income tax alone, Sweden in 2011 had the top rate at just under 60%, add in other taxes and you’re well above 66%, so even if your figures are to believed, there would still be a country taxing more than us.

The top income tax rate I quoted is for Sweden.

Karl, are you volunteering?

skeolawn, I’m far from the top 25% but believe me if I was lucky enough to be in that group, I’d pay such a tax for the good of my country.

very easy to say that when you are not the one paying it.

Fintan, I would pay it if i could(i stated that but you chose to ignore it) and believe me so would any person who truly loves their country and that’s what we need to make people do.

Love is probably too strong a word. but I’m keen on this old place…. not that keen though ;-)
Good luck.

That’s the problem Fintan, we need to show people there is things in their country they can love and make them love it enough to pay up as much as they can for it’s good and thanks for the well wishes.

Karl the top twenty five percent already pay eighty percent of the total tax collected . Afraid you will have to reduce Social Welfare to European average and Public Service pay by around thirty percent to balance things.

Peter, I don’t care what they pay it’s not enough and people on social welfare probably can’t afford any more cuts, European average is lower due to lower living cost, it’s not like for like.