Your knowledge of history is as abysmal as your logic. The Arab people of Palestine (who refused to consider themselves Palestinian reserving that term for the Jews) were intimately involved in the Holocaust. Do your homework.

Their leader, war criminal, Haj Mohammed Effendi Amin el-Husseini encouraged Hitler and actually raised an Arab army on his behalf. He was instrumental in torpedoing efforts to buy the safety of Jews early in the conflict.

Through the efforts of local Arabs, Palestinians if you will, the British Mandate of palestine closed its doors to those fleeing the Nazis, condemning hundreds of thousands to their doom.

Ethnic cleansing in Palestine? Are you confusing the ethnic cleansing of almost all Jews from the Middle East? Perhaps you are thinking of the current Arab efforts to remove the remaining Christian communities?

Palestinians have probably the highest rate of population increase of any people in the world. In Israel their percentage of the population has risen to match the Jewish population despite waves of Jewish emmigration. In Gaza their population is rising at twice the world average while in the West Bank the population rise is a percentage point less but still above the world average. In Jerusalem, the site of new Jewish building the Arab population grew from 68,600 people in 1967 to 244,800 people (a rise of 257 percent), twice that of the Jewish population.

THIS HAS TO BE THE LEAST EFFECTIVE ETHNIC CLEANSING THE WORLD HAS EVERY KNOWN. Do your homework.

David — Your distortions are downright wacky.

Your education starts here:

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, by Ilan Pappé.

How did end up on this website and thread by the way? ;)

@David
‘The Arab people of Palestine were intimately involved in the Holocaust.’

No doubt they shot JFK as well and organised 9/11.

Ta for that update on ‘history’. In fact I remember them distinctly invading Ireland with the Danes and treacherously slaying Brian Boru. Its scribbled on page 911 of my bible.

You clearly don’t now much about history do you Marist ’59 ??? You should be aware of the deportation of Jews to Palestine/Israel by Nazi Germany (before the gas chambers were being used), and many Muslims in the area were collaboraters with the Nazis. Some were even in the SS etc. You should research the facts before coming out with incorrect statements such as that.

Petr Tarasov.
Is that the same Ilan Pappe of whom Benny Morris wrote, “Pappe … is mortally ignorant of the basic facts … awash with error of a quantity and quality that are not found in serious historiography. … It can almost be called a deliberate system of error.” ?

Is this the same Pappe who said, “There is no historian in the world who is objective. I am not as interested in what happened as in how people see what’s happened. ”

I’ll raise you serious analysts and historians Benny Morris, Efraim Karsh, Herbert London, Steven Plaut,as well as Professors Daniel Gutwein and Yossi Ben-Artzi from his previous employers Haifa University who all consider Pappe is not only incorrect in his conclusions but deliberately mistranslates and even falsifies his so called evidence.

I’m aware Pappé has many enemies; dissidents always do. Let’s cut to the chase though. If you can cite a list of errors Pappé has made then we can talk. So over to you, produce your list and we can evaluate it.

On a side note, Morris’s work on 1947/1948 largely supports Pappé’s, despite it being framed differently.

falsifies his so called evidence

Boy, you better be able to substantiate that!

Damian from the IPSC thinks that everyone who disagrees with him is a propagandist.

Right. No propaganda here whatsoever.

So we have David from Rehovot, Israel, throwing in a whole bunch of comments. David’s “looking for a position in public diplomacy. We also have Irish4Israel doing coordinated comment spamming and email campaign to email the “author” directly: https://www.facebook.com/irish4israel/posts/174618716013475

2 + 2 = ?

Yup.. the usual bully-boy tactics…

My inner criminologist just woke up for a second … Sykes and Matza’s neutralisation theory attempts to understand how people justify unconscionable acts – I think it’s quite telling, pretty much any given apologist post falls into one of these general categories:

Denial of responsibility. The offender will propose that they were victims of circumstance or were forced into situations beyond their control.

Denial of injury. The offender insists that their actions did not cause any harm or damage.

Denial of the victim. The offender believes that the victim deserved whatever action the offender committed.

Condemnation of the condemners. The offenders maintain that those who condemn their offense are doing so purely out of spite, or are shifting the blame off of themselves unfairly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techniques_of_neutralization

@Paddy

IPSC?
Not everyone who disagrees with Israel’s recidivist criminality is affilliated with your chosen straw-men decoys.

Try dealing with the issues, instead of hasbara smear-techniques.

….Israel = it ….it = has..not have

That’s the best you could do.

The US would just vote down anything going negatively towards Israel as they need the ally in the Middle East. China would vote it down because they don’t want anyone interfering with China or her interests. UK and France wouldn’t support anything because they are trying to tip-toe around past mistakes. The only one on the permanent security council who would stand any chance of supporting anything against Israel is Russia, and only because it would be looking to get some lucrative defense contracts out of Palestine and other nations in the region within the next few years.

That is why nothing more than weak words come out towards Israel.

What nonsense you speak. Opininion polls show that 90% of the Israeli population supported his actions and that includes all the Jewish opposition parties who surely would have been the first to complain if this was an election gimmick. His party’s likely share of the Knesset (parliament) has actually dropped because of his failure to complete the job.

You should ask, why so close to an election, the Gazans thought it an opportune time to make war against Israel? Didn’t they realise that more than a thousand rocket and mortar attacks would guarantee that no Jewish politician could pretend that opposing Israel’s self defence would be a peace move?

David — I strongly suspect you are a paid propagandist.

Petr Tarasov. I wish someone would pay me. If they did it would make difference to the argument. The war in Gaza had nothing to do with elections, neither Israeli or Palestinian. Remind me when they are scheduled.

Petr, you accuse every person who disagrees with your opinion of being an Israel spy! Get over yourself.

Just ones that support Israel. That must be against Journal rules.

So your saying that the Journal are deleting the majority of pro Israeli posts?

Your not worth responding too anymore Reg……stay up in your tower of delusions…

My reply pointing out the deletion of my last rebuttal of Reg’s tendentious take is already gone…see how long this lasts.

The Palestinian successful effort in the UN completely voids the Oslo Agreements. Why should Israel be expected to continue abiding by other agreements when the PLO does not?

Correct plus the Balfour land act also an important document the British backtracked on with palestinians and helped start the isreali nuclear program.

Censorship been played in a major way here by the journal!! Shocking.

Reginald, Israel has made their intentions clear and the world has had enough. Its not going to be long before they cross the final line…….then it WILL be tough

Their book also says that the Canaanites and Pelishtim (Palestinians?) were the people there before the Israelites.

No Mary not the Palestinians. Palestine was a term invented by the Romans.

Mary, you’re right about the Canaanites but do you mean Phoenician rather than Pelishtim? The Phoenicians as well as the Canaanites and [Ancient] Israelis are Semitic tribes that were situated in the Levant thousands of years ago. Semitic covers a lot more people than just Jews. One fact many people, especially the ones that like throw ‘anti-Semitic’ around a lot, don’t realise is that Arabs are Semitic too!

Paddy, ‘Palaistine’ was used by the Greeks around 500BCE to refer to the Levant area. The Latin name ‘Palaestina’ was adapted from the Greek. The Greek name is thought to possibly come from the Ancient Egyptian name for the region.

Any evidence for that Barry?

Plenty of history books out there Paddy. All you gotta do is pick them up and read them. Or you could even just google it… http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_name_Palestine

So absolutely no connection to the Arabs in Judea and Samaria/Palestine today.

Actually Paddy, the majority of Jews in modern Israel are Ashkenazi Jews of European origin. The Sephardic Jews are native to the Levant and are genetically far more similar to Arab Palestinians than the Ashkenazi. Most of the Sephardic Jews are against the wars and occupation of modern Israel – they lived in peace with their neighbours before the mass immigration of Ashkenazi Jews. This time google it yourself.

Actually Barry Ashkenazi Jews have their origins in the Middle East, dna studies tell us that. Google it yourself :)

If Eastern Europe and Central Asia were in the Middle East then you would be correct but it’s not. The Askenazi are of Scythian origin – near the Ural mountains. The Ashkenazi migrated westward through Slavic territories and into Central and Western Europe. Many settled near the Rhine in Medieval times and became quite wealthy through trade. This accumulated wealth, along with religious suspicion, is one of the main reasons for their persecution and subsequent migration throughout the world including migration to the Levant. Most Ashkenazi will deny this historical truth because they think it will invalidate their ‘god given’ right to the disputed land.

I don’t deny that the Ashkenazi Jews were persecuted beyond what words can describe throughout history, but I don’t agree that this gives them the right to persecute people of other ethnic origins i.e. Palestinian Arabs.

I believe the topic today is Israel’s ongoing expansionaryt aggression and theft of Palestinian taxes because of tantrums over global disgust at their general outlaw behaviour.

Write an article about Oslo.

What I posted is relevant to this Damian. You spouting ipsc propaganda is irrelevant.

ispc??

Israeli Society for Palestinian Coercion?

That wouldn’t be propaganda..that would be your hasbara department.

Sorry Damian typo. IPSC.

I got an email a while ago that you commented after me. Mysteriously disappeared :/

@Gavin, What a load of crap

Nice one Gavin, did you get to the end of your magic book yet, I’ve a good one Thor and another on Ganesh when you are finished.

@John: the prophecies and their fulfillment are true. I’m just saying that there are more that are supposed to follow, do we just disregard that FACT and play caution to the wind?
Your lambasting doesn’t help!!!

I find it funny how Gavin uses the phrases “make an informed decision” and “only the bible has that monopoly” almost in the same sentence. I needed that laugh to lighten up the day.

@ Jason: I mean ‘informed’ regarding what the bible prophecies are, its why I attached the link.
The bible is made up of about 1/3 prophetic themes, its what separates it from any other so called ‘holy book’. Its stands alone in that regard, prophecies that have occurred beyond even a reasonable doubt, and are the hallmark of omnipotence. That is why I say monopoly, so laugh away!
Proverbs 18:2 ESV: A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

@ Gavin

Genesis 16:8

And he said “Hagar, Sarai’s slave girl, where have you come from and where are you going?” She answered, “I’m running away from Sarai, my mistress.” The angel of the Lord said to her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to ill treatment at her hands.

Hahaha Gavin… yer too funny!

So God is now an estate agent?! hahaha

Hey Gavin, your talking a load of hogwash! “bible prophecies” FFS get a grip man, there’s no more truth or facts in that piece of fiction than any other! The Israelis are flouting international law, just like they always do safe in the knowledge that as long as the US backs them up they can do as they please, they are like the annoying obnoxious little brat who bullies other kids in the playground with the big bully standing over them. This should make people wake up to the fact that Israel and Nethanyahu in particular have no interest in peace and are certainly not going to allow a 2 state solution. I don’t condone terrorism in any form but like a lot of people I am sick of the Israelis and i’m sick of hearing the holocaust card being played again and again by those who support them. The Israelis have had 70 years to come to a solution with the Palestinians, they have milked the holocaust for all it’s worth and tragic as that was for the Jews and don’t forget not all Jews are Israelis. I think the time is coming when Israel is either going to have to get serious about peace or face the prospect of an all out war with it’s Arab neighbours especially Egypt, Egypt is slipping more and more down the road to becoming an Islamic republic, another Iran in the making and with Syria tearing itself apart and the very real prospect of it too becoming another Iran then Israel is going to face an onslaught, throw Iraq into the mix and you have another enemy in waiting. Even Turkey has fallen out with the Israelis so they are becoming more and more isolated. Only the US and it’s puppy the UK are standing firm and even the puppy has been yapping at Israel this morning over these ‘settlements’. If Israel continues to build these illegal settlements then they deserve to be treated like a pariah, they can’t have it both ways. As for the threats to Israel from Hamas and other terrorists by all means they have the right to defend themselves but their own behaviour is just playing into the hands of the extremists.

Wee caveat, Gavin.

Think of the bible as the Hollywood of its day. Lotsa people think John Wayne tamed the West. Its not gospel.