No, but to work in fields that Irish people wouldn’t either work in or because there’s a shortage of specific skills that can’t be sourced locally. But for some to say that we immigrants come here to milk the system just show how ignorant or racist they are. There should be a certain number of years of PRSI contribution before anyone is able to access state benefits.

No, but to work in fields that Irish people wouldn’t either work in or because there’s a shortage of specific skills that can’t be sourced locally. But for some to say that we immigrants come here to milk the system just show how ignorant and/or racist they are. There should be a certain number of years of PRSI contribution before anyone is able to access state benefits.

There isn’t a shortage of Irish skills nor are the Irish refusing to take up jobs at min wage this is pure hype put out there.
Any job advertised will have plently of Irish people applying mostly over skilled prepared to work for min wage.

There is an absolute abundance of jobs in the IT sector that can’t be filled by Irish people due to skilled labour force not being available here.

Those immigrants didn’t all landed here last year. Many was here since the good times and have decided to stay and are still working in those jobs that the locals would even dream to do during the Celtic tiger years

@Fotocrat,

I dont get your point at all. I never said the students didn’t have to pay for fees, that has nothing to do with the discussion, try to stay on the issue please. Random rambling only serves to stifle the debate.

Back on the issue though, it’s not surprising you yourself are on here casting negative opinions on Irish workers, since you yourself are an immigrant, your opinion is hardly impartial now, is it?

You along with our native leftist heal the world hippy types seem to miss the point, mass immigration into Ireland during a recession is unsustainable and serves no positive purpose for Irish people or our economy in the long run. The only people to benefit from this are big business interests who have a long history of this sort of thing.

They should just put the medical card and dole application form with the visa form.

Hearing you Tom ranting over things that you do have a clue about nor facts to back you is just disgusting. Am a heavy tax payer and an employer at the same time. I feel myself as being part behind your dole-sponging habits. Sorry, sad but true. Do you at least have a single clue about how much money I paid to university here before I decided to stay! No way. Just keep ranting over us immigrants who are contributing towards your fees and social welfare through taxation. Cheers and happy new year.

I love the Irish people who makes most of my personal friend circle Tom. But you, among the minority immigrant haters, makes us immigrants feel hated here. Cop on and show some respect towards others. You are reacting as if we were the ones who has been cleaning up the states cash till. Just because the boom or bubble had exploded in your face because of your kinda greed. We are simple and still working very hard and contributing a lot to this economy unlike spongers.

fotocrat, to say that immigrants come here to milk the system is not a racist remark, go check yourself dude then again its pure typical of you on here making ignorant statements. the old shortage of skillsets baaa we all know its lies in place of the excuse to pay less and cry for cheaper labour. you’re all the fools, it’s the irish emigrants that are taking the smart route.

Kinetic…that’s complete rubbish, my son did engineering (not computer), but for first two years course was general, included computer engineering…graduated nearly three years ago, the vast MAJORITY of that year (250+) including my son have left the country for work, not fun, work!!! I just do not buy that story at all.

You cannot apply for a visa and come to Ireland and claim benefits. End of.

Just to add to my point if so many tens of thousands of irish have to leave Ireland for work why are so many coming here from other countries something not adding up. Can someone answer that for me ?

Declan, it is a fallacy to say that foreign nationals are only applying for visas to come to Ireland and milk the system. One needs to have established at least 2 years of PRSI contributions in Ireland or an EU state before they can start taking out of the system.

If anything, I would reckon that a lot of East Asians (Indians in particular) are coming here for well paid mid-to-senior level ICT jobs, as the Irish don’t have the technical skillsets to fill these jobs.

@ doesnotcompute. Good points there. So there is work in Ireland but we dont have the skills that shows everyone how we need to fill the gaps with irish people with re training.

@Declan

If you seriously want the answer to that get yourself a copy of Michel Chossudovsky’s ‘Globalisation of Poverty, Impacts of IMF and World Bank Reforms’.

He’s Professor of Economics at Ottawa University and has followed the plot for decades across the globe.
Naomi Klein’s ‘Shock Doctrine’ gives a more accessable layman’s overview if you don’t want all the details, charts and tables of a serious economic analyst with a critical eye on the deified market theology.

Because you refuse to take the shit work. Look what nationalities work with bin collectors, janitorial services, security companies, automobile shops.

This is all part of a plan that was thought up by Mary Harney and Charlie McCreevy. Their thinking was to bring in as many foreign workers as possible, so as to lower the wages their rich and powerful friends in big business would have to pay them. Who remembers Mary Harney announcing back in the Celtic Tiger days that 60,000 foreign workers per year were needed to keep the economy growing? It was all part of a plan to ensure that ordinary Irish people didn’t get ideas above their station. The crowd in power now are following the same path. Nothing gives them more satisfaction than seeing ordinary people’s living standards drop to as low a point as they can get away with. In the meantime the rich and powerful are coining it in, ensuring that the gap between the top and bottom is growing to what is deemed a more acceptable level again. Forcing ordinary Irish people to emigrate is the icing on the cake for them. The more that leave, then the easier it gets to maintain this equilibrium. Instead of having a generation of ordinary people with high expectations, they’re left with a generation of foreign workers who are just happy to have a job and roof over their head.

@Declan

I work in IT and you simply cannot retrain someone in 12-18 months to bring them to the level of an IT graduate with 3-5 years experience. Retraining, at best, will bring them to the level of a graduate. It takes about 1.5 years of training before a graduate is actually producing productivity to match their income. That’s why so many grad programs are exactly 18 months long.

There are some exceptions who are very bright, but how many gifted people do you think are sitting around waiting to be retrained?

Our multinationals are very proactive in working with the government to produce and hire graduates. The government even subsidizes the salaries of Irish graduates in many cases. However, there simply isn’t a conveyor belt of Irish people to fill skilled positions, and it’s better that our employers bring in new taxpayers to fill them than leaving the job evaporate and get given to a different division. All of the multinationals in Ireland have to compete with their counterparts in other countries to get work from the mothership corporation. A readily available workforce is crucial to their success and credibility in bringing the work to Ireland, and with it the export growth that is keeping this economy alive.

Some retraining is possible, but companies cannot rely on that intake alone to fill positions. A career in IT takes a while to build up. You can’t just give people a safepass and 6 months in FAS and parachute them in. That’s why we invest in our universities to produce highly skilled graduates – because this stuff isn’t learned overnight, and we’re competing against powerhouse and emerging economies whose skilled graduates outnumber ours greatly.

Companies don’t take the process of hiring from outside the EU lightly. There are extra hiring costs and they don’t come cheaper. I can tell you though, from nearly 8 years in the business, they are predominantly good people that get brought in, and they do a lot to enhance the Irish workplace.

Interesting point there fred.

Why is it that the people doing the shit work get shit money and the people in the cushy numbers get the obscene rewards?

And its important work. It keeps us having better mortality rates than the 19th century. It keeps our hospitals clean, depite bacteriological and microbial evolution to beat antibiotics.
Yet a golf or football player can pocket a lump would build a city in his home country if he’s lucky enough to be lucky.

Meet your maker the mad market.

@coke con, you obviously don’t know a huge amount about the social welfare system. You can’t apply for job seekers , that is correct but you can apply for other benefits that give you the same financial gain, including housing and other benefits with different titles. I have a friend who works in the department and he has said , that many people who come to him from other countries know more about what they are entitled too than him. He’s worked there 10 years.

There are allowances that can be claimed without contributing a cent to the system. Do you see any visa applicants homeless ?

@Naill Boylan . You are correct there is plenty you can get beside job seekers. However I like to see stats on how many are working vs claiming some sort of benefits I would bet the number is quite high in tens of thousands. Obviously I cant back that claim but it needs to be checked.

Can the journal find stats? It really dosent add up so many applied for visas and the alike but how many working vs social benefits considering so many irish leaving. It is highly unlikey 88000 plus got job’s.

In cleaning I can say the minority are Irish where I work, there’s 3 Irish including myself.
The other 7 are from Eastern Europe
There’s 8 in security and of them 1 is African, 1 South Africa and 1 from Canada.

Irish people see cleaning as beneath them and wouldant do it for the €10.05 p/h I get.
Security are better payed at €15ish p/h and they get overtime.

@Morgan , are you finished your little delusional rant now. Asylum seekers get a basic allowance when they arrive and are also given provisional allowances to allow them to eat and dress their children etc. Once asylum is approved they can claim subsidies including their legal right to a roof over their heads. 38% of asylum seekers of a particular nationality are unemployed since the day they arrived on Irish shores. Explain to me how they are surviving and have roofs over their heads If, as you you say they get nothing from the state. You are the clown my friend and a very delusional one at that.

@Damien James Murray.

Security guards do not get paid €15 an hour or anything like it, the labour agreements covering the cleaning and security industry is no longer valid, it has finished so many security guards are lucky to earn €9 but those working from the old agreement are earning 10.01 per hour. Supervisors dont even get €15 ph in most places.

Cleaners in most companies earn on average €9.50 ph.

The reason mostly non Irish work in these jobs is because they are relatively low skilled and dont require a high level of communication skills.
Employers favour employing non Irish people the reason being most non Irish workers are unaware of their employment rights and are easily manipulated and screwed out of public holiday payments and over time payments. I’ve seen it with my own eyes so I know for a fact it goes on.

Most Irish people would jump at the chance of getting any work, how dare you presume such a negative stereotype of an entire nation of Irish people.

Declan, you sound racist to me.

@morgan. Ya might want learn the basics at pre-school before ya leave a comment.

88,000 is the number of visas. Those visas could be short stay or long stay and the number probably also includes re-entry visas too. Anyone on a short stay visa wont work or claim any benefits, they’re holidaymakers usually. Long stay visa holders still need to get appropriate residency before they can work. So the number doesn’t represent any number of jobs in reality- at all.

Yeah, the state pays asylum seekers. The state pays adult asylum seekers €19.10 per week. Per week. They’re housed in conditions that are honestly reprehensible in some places. I sure wouldn’t want my kids growing up in one room, infested with cockroaches, with no toys and no play areas. We do provide for asylum seekers- as little as we possibly can. It’s disgusting.

Declan
I can answer. Every one of those immigrants coming here is in employment . When you look at such numbers you now have concrete evidence that Social Welfare rates are a disincentive to work. There is no other explanation.

Rodrigo
Our wage costs in Ireland are still up to eighteen per cent above European average. This makes your case totally fallacious ( see dictionary ).

@Brian Horgan. I am no racist. Where am I been racist? . Dont be an idiot by throwing out the racist card on the table. I wont apologise for asking questions when something looks a suspicious.

@ Tom Rooney
I’m well aware of that as I’m in the industry since 2000.
Iv seen it go from mostly Irish to now mostly Eastern Europe or African people doing this job.

Would u clean other people’s shit for €10 p/h ? put up with people treating you like shit ?

As for security is that €10.01 + unsocial hours and shift premium ? Cause I earn just over €1600 a month (40h week) before tax and the security guys here get just over €2800 on a 48h week ?

I have heard a lot of Irish that started in cleaning say there leaven cause the money isant good enough to stay, there better of on the dole, some people just aren’t cut out for work ect ect.

I have told irish people I know to give me there cv for jobs but soon as I tell them it’s only a tenner an hour they lose interest.

Aisling cop yourself on don’t know where you. Got your info

Tom, failure is the door to success… But ignorance is the gateway to failure. Good luck

@ Rodrigo: Finally someone else get it. Thanks! You should keep copying and pasting that until it sinks in with everyone. The media feeding the skill shortage game for far too long. Course theres skill shortages but NOT thousands! We have our own ITs, our own Universities, damn it, they’re even coming here to study! So… course it doesn’t add up. THEY SIMPLY DON’T WANT TO PAY THE SKILLSET WAGE! Read Naomi Klein indeed and many others. DON’T BE FOOLED!

Yea Fred, computer engineering, graphic design, web developing etc etc is really shit work :/ get a grip man, they simply want it done for €8 an hour if they can get away with it. Thats highly skilled work for shit wages. Yea lets all slave away for the needy greedy. Pat on the back there for that. I saw Irish Dairies had a designer from BRAZIL! Don’t dare tell me theres a shortage in this country for that skillset, never mind the fact this not even an EU worker! Try getting that work in Brazil, you won’t get it cos that job can be filled for their own as its not a skillset thats in short supply. Don’t see them been called racist do you? We really really need to get tough here on employers and having jobs only for EU workers unless it REALLY is a skillset that can’t be filled.

Yes you can

100% agree.

Finbar: my comment wasn’t particularly pointed at you and I don’t think you have offended anyone.
All I was saying people blow out of the proportion Irish visas issue not even knowing (or maybe not wanting to know) real reasons behind them.

Also many Irish leave the country, but there is also not just 1 reason for it. For example:

- finished college and wanted adventure
- love / partner
- better job somewhere else (have job in Ireland now)
- don’t like the way things are going here and think of starting new life somewhere else (again, may have jobs here already)
- did not try that hard to find job in Ireland at all and assumed economics are bad, so they won’t even bother and just decide to go somewhere right away
- don’t want to up skill or re train and just prefer going abroad to work in their known and learned trade

And more!

exactly, though we’re called racist yet other countries are only allowing in those they need and rightly so, strange.

Well said Stephen Murray, most Irish people agree with you, never be afraid to defend your country and your people. The multicult media and agenda people are trying to make people afraid to speak out about what is right.

Why can’t you stay?

Ok Raymond.
But will you work for the minimum wage?

Can’t earn enough money to pay the bills.no future here for young people,especially ones who bought homes.are you living in Ireland?

Have you tried learning new skills to obtain a higher wage?

You might want to learn English first Raymond

Raymond, you sound racist to me.

Brian with a comment like that you sound stupid.

I’m thinking of getting into politics.

Work for a couple of years and get on the best dole and rent allowance in the world.

I’m surprised there hasn’t been 88 million applications.

In good time and bad Australia lets in approx. one hundred thousand immigrants per year.
A country with 20 million people and a land mass bigger than Europe.
They look for highly qualified, hard working, professionals, that are fluent in English, with their own funds.
These immigrants are given a sense of privilege and achievement when they have been accepted.
This type of selective immigration adds value to a country and its economy.
How does this compare to our immigration system Mr Shatter??

Not to mention that the Australian immigration authorities make you take a full medical and HIV test with a doctor, from their panel.

This sounds a bit draconian?

That’s a joke we are giving out visas when we can not keep our own in employment. We left because of no work not through any fault of our own. Cop on government

Yup…. Dey dern took auwr JAWBS!

Margaret – if your existing skillset results in no work then it’s you who is to blame, not the government.

Kinetic, there are some skills that aren’t here in abundance but most skillsets ARE here. Approx 1,000 permits were issued last year to Non Eu members for hi-tech skillsets, thats just 1,000 so what about the thousands of skills that are here that arent been met? Skill shortage excuse again i hear you cry? A fact is that lots of candidates get turned away here for been ‘over qualified’ so how then is that a shortage of skills? It simply means the salary is not been offered but dumbed down with either ‘skills shortage’ ‘over qualified’. They should just come out and say it “we can get it done cheaper elsewhere” instead of telling fibs. Companies who up shop and move to China etc do so for what? Tell me your answer then you will find the same answer is here for those companies who can’t afford to up shop and move to China, they would if they could and NOT for the skillsets over there, $1 an hour more like! If someone here decides to be an astro scientist then competes for the same job with an immigrant who will do it for less, is there something wrong then with their Skillset? NO AND YOU AGAIN ARE WRONG! Its got Greed and Exploitation written all over it.

I notice some immigrants from Africa have British twangs on their accents. I also notice they have friends and cousins already living in England. Pamela Izevbekhai husband came over from England or was staying there, wasn’t he? That cost us a pretty penny.

Multiculturalism is not the failure, Tom.

Ireland is multicultural, Gaeilic, Viking, Norman, English etc with enormous input over the last century from America and evrything from Handel premiers to Japanese theatre in our mix.

The failure is the too-big-to-admit-it totalitarian parasitic capitalist market-worship theology, with no thought for integrated inclusiveness as there is more moolah in strife and division.

Keep the focus.

Recommended reading: The Crisis of Multiculturalism: Racism in a Neoliberal Age.

@ Damien, in short…cop on.
You’re not comparing like with like and either you are ignorant of the facts or knowingly ignoring the facts to push an agenda.
Multiculturalism has been an abject failure all across Europe from Germany to France, the UK, Sweden and the Netherlands. This has been demonstrated through the large scale social unrest and lack of social cohesion in almost every ghetto in every city across Europe, ethnic enclaves were the ethnic minorities largely do not mix with the indigenous population, instead preferring to ignore the native culture of their host country and not assimilating.

But I suppose, Merkel, Sarkozy and Blair were all wrong when they declare multiculturalism was a failure across Europe and you are right, is that what you expect us the believe?

What’s the solution thought Tom? Do we announce that from now on only those living in the EEA can legally reside in Ireland?

Where does that leave the thousands of Irish emigrants living and working in Great Britain, the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Korea, Dubai etc? If all those countries closed up their borders to Irish people, we’d be in a worse financial situation.

As to the cheap labour assertion, do you believe Irish employers are paying foreign workers less than the minimum wage? As it stands, schemes like JobBridge and high levels of unemployment have decreased pay conditions (as well as cuts in public service salaries). I don’t think it’s reasonable to attribute all the blame on ”cheap foreign labour.”

@Tom

How many countries have you worked in and lived in?

I’ve worked and lived in many, from Britain and Africa and Oz to the US and Scandanavia, Germany, Netherlands where I mixed with all sorts over many years.

There were always ghettos of huddled paddies whinging over pints while I lived with Turks and Moroccons and Africans and had a ball.
Break out. Treat yourself to the world while you’re passing through it. There are humans in every culture, and feareful timid prejudiced people huddling in their herds.
I’m well copped on thanks.

As for Merkel, Sarkozy and Blair..you really should keep better company.

Eoin anything I assert is based on personal experience and things I have seen first hand, it is not just an opinion.
I am in the middle of taking 2 different cases before the labour relations commission on behalf of Polish friends who were being exploited by well know Dublin bars and clubs.

The solution is very simple. Restrict non EU immigration to very highly skilled professionals and only offer them temporary visas not permanent visas.
Dont allow low skilled immigration to Ireland from non EU countries as it is simply not needed, the pool of available labour in Europe is more than enough let alone Ireland’s almost 500,000 unemployed.

It is a matter of sustainability and maintenance of living standards.

@ Damien,
I have been to many different countries including parts of west Africa and I know they are human I never claimed they were not, but to deny there are major and often incompatible cultural differences between people in west Africa and Irish people in west Cork is just blind ignorance, to assume they will naturally just get along is a big mistake as has been proven time and time again across Europe.

We humans will never live in a one world utopia, it’s not in our nature, that line of thinking is little more than a fantasists pipe dream.

@ tom.
Well said. There is one other point I would throw in is that every other country wants the brightest and best while the only requirement here is arriving.

@Tom I suppose your bigotry ignorance towards multiculturalism and extends to the 80 million Irish Americans that have contributed to America also? Or how about Argentina, home of the fifth largest Irish community in the world. Tom, even you wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for multiculturalism, you are a fool. With an ignorant uneducated mindset that belongs in a different century.

@Tom God help you. Do you at least have a hint of notion that prior to any non-EU citizen traveling here for purpose of study, those people should apply to an Irish Embassy to get their visa and during the process, should prove to the embassy that they have the required amount of money to fund their studies and cost of living without any burden to the state! Only a tiny handful of countries are exempt from these regulations.

@Morgan James, why are you such an angry and hostile individual? I’m making fair points, I think all will agree I haven’t been bigoted or ignorant on this issue.
I have made points based on the available facts.
You however went on insulting rant, full of emotional outbursts and ignorance of the points being made.

Maybe it’s a cultural thing.

3rd attempt to reply to Tom.

Don’t be slinging accusations of anger and hostility until you retract your accusation that I’m ignorant and living a fantasist pipe dream of uptopian shite.

I was slung in gaol in the Orange free state for the same utopian refusal to swallow their apartheid dream back in ’69.

I was not a tourist. I’m a traveller and multiple migrant. I listed a couple of books up the page might light a candle out of your own darkening ignorance. I can’t be returning your invective.

Damien, Socialism is a nice concept on paper but it is not practical, the socialist system in its purest form is anti evolutionary, it like multiculturalism is a PROVEN failure.

Capitalism is by no means perfect either, but dont mistake pure capitalism with the crony capitalism that exists in the world today. In a pure capitalist system all the zombie banks would have been allowed fail and we would not be in this predicament.

Perhaps you should grow up, although mature in age it seems you’re caught in a state of socialist mania, holding onto an ideal that us unattainable.
It would be far more productive to think about the possible ways to develop helpful ideals for society maybe by cherry picking good principles from both socialism and capitalism.

By the way, you reference to the “Orange free state” I presume you’re talking about the 6 counties.
Well, if you are a Republican you must also realise all that socialist doctrine they fed you in gaol on the Republican wings was relatively new to Irish republicanism, Socialism only being accepted officially as an ideology by the Republican movement in the late 1960’s.

Hence if you think the two are intertwined and dependent then I’m afraid you are wrong.

Again, this is NOT about any individual race, ethnicity or tribe, you and your ilk are going to great pains in an attempt to create a strawman that doesn’t exist.

This is about practicality and what is sustainable, Ireland is not in a situation to open its borders to every immigrant on the planet, if that was what you wished it wouldn’t be long before Ireland would become nothing more than an over populated economic disaster.

There are 500,000 people unemployed in Ireland at the moment, all of our resources should be put into securing theirs and the rest of our futures first and foremost, this is the most practicle and logical approach and your one world unrealistic airy fairy ideal is not the answer Ireland needs right now.

@Tom Rooney some good points there Tom.

“multiculturalism is a PROVEN failure”

Tom you said your girlfriend is Polish, a Polish immigrant

:)

Oh dear, Tom.

You’re gonna wear out your assumptive shovel digging your own hole.

I was referring to the Orange Free State, capital. Bloomfontein, in the African republic of South Africa. And where did you dig up your socialist smear?
Irony?They called me a communist when they arrested me. I was working in marketing for a global multinational publisher’s agency at the time.

Stop digging and educate your self. Insult is NOT argument. Ignorance is not wisdom, unless you are timewarped in 1984 totalitarianist corporatism.

At least read Orwell, if my suggestions are too taxing for your increasingly flaccid and callow attempts at insult. You haven’t the experience or wit to insult me. Desist.
Your narrow nationalist mindset is antediluvian and redundant. It is unfit for purpose in the 21st globalised century.

It is a late parrot.
Dodo mortis. That Declan seconds you should be warning enough to be more cautious.

At this stage Tom, you have proven your oxymoronic monocultural theorising to be dangerously wooly and unthough through.

You are on the road to fascistic presumption, unless you engage your cortex promptly.

I have to agree with Tom on a lot of his points, articulate and without emotion, and Morgan, when comparing Irish people emigrating to the United States and Australia etc. when they were developing countries, building what are now some of the largest cities in the world, did it ever occur to you that Ireland is a tiny island with a population of just under 5 million people in a recession, and America and Australia are two massive continents, that is a tired and non-sensical argument, ‘sure we went to America’, apples and oranges my friend, I’ve pointed out before it’s like trying to fit 5 people on the titanic and 5 people in a dinghy, which is easier?

@tom, you feel passionate about your position and your point of view. Great to see an Irishman express them so consistently without getting caught in a conflict…

Good luck with the upcoming cases. Let journal know the outcomes please. Im sure You could write a piece on that!!!!

Agree with everything Tom Rooney has said, he has not once been racist or said anything hateful. He has stated facts and common sense. People like Damien attacked him and insulted him for nothing when they could not out-debate him.

@Brian.

I do believe the evidence remains as to who accused who of ignorance and communism.

That his ‘common sense’ confirms your prejudices does not make it fact.

You are colluding in a convenient scapegoating of the weak and vulnerable, to divert attention from the white-collar criminals who created the problem.

Both stupid and cowardly.

Being opposed to mass immigration is not scapegoating. However supporting mass immigration is something that falls into the hands of corrupt capitalists.

Tell me why do you think capitalist extraordinaire Peter Sutherland, George Soros and Irish-American maxi capitalist Chuck Feeney who has set up the multicult ONE foundation….why do you think they are all so enthusiastic supporters of multiculturalism? Because it suits big business.

Sutherland who is chairman of BP
Peter D. Sutherland is Chairman of BP plc (1997 – current). He is also Chairman of Goldman Sachs International (1995 – current).
he also serves on the Board of Directors of the Royal Bank of Scotland Group plc, and is associated with the following organizations: Trilateral Commission (Europe), Chairman; World Economic Forum, Foundation Board Member; the European Institute (United States), Director; Chief Executive’s Council of International Advisers, Hong Kong; the Federal Trust, President; Chairman of the Consultative Board of the Director-General of the World Trade Organization; and Goodwill Ambassador to the United Nations Industrial Development Organization (2 March 2005).

Prior to his current position, Mr Sutherland served as: Attorney General of Ireland (1981-1984); European Commissioner responsible for Competition Policy (1985-1989); Chairman of Allied Irish Banks (1989-1993); and Director-General of the World Trade Organization, formerly GATT (1993-1995).

His awards include an honorary Knighthood (United Kingdom 2004), the Gold Medal of the European Parliament (1988), the First European Law Prize (Paris 1988), the David Rockefeller International Leadership Award (1998)
A starstruck Michael Kantor would later dub him ‘the father of globalization’.
Little did he know when he so kindly consented to be Chairman of BP (the annual remuneration of £600,000 p.a. must have been useful pin-money) that the company would face accusations of trading irregularities, oil spills, what he called ‘harsh’ safety criticisms

But the money was always incidental to the greater aim of getting rid of all those pesky prehistoric frontiers, traditions and identities which impede the global flows of capital, commodities, human rights lawyers, pictures of celebrities in thongs, and humans in throngs. As he remarked almost angrily in 2007, opposition to greater globalisation is ‘morally indefensible’.

Sutherland is currently world corrupt money grabbers Goldman Sachs man in Europe, why in the world do you think they are rabid multicultists?
“The EU should “do its best to undermine” the “homogeneity” of its member states” P sutherland.

It is big business that gains, not the ordinary man or woman. People will and are being turned into consumer cattle, forced to go to whatever fenced in green field they are shunted into to squabble and fight for the few crumbs of jobs that are thrown their way. We are entering a new feudal age, where the number at the top are very few and are far richer than every before.

There is a concerted effort on to destroy Europeans and European identity and European made nations or states, this is because the globalists know that the greatest resistance and capacity to defeat them comes from Europeans who are awake to them, nationalists and nationalism is their biggest enemy, that is why they attack it. Marxism and all its ultra socialist offshoots is their ally and something they encourage.

They encourage the people to get involved in political extreme socialism because they know it actually helps capitalist globalisation, while in the long term, making all people poorer. So while you focus on your own self righteousness and feed your own need to feel important, humanity takes a dive at your expense. Mass immigration is your enemy and the enemy of immigrants and all humanity.

People who come to study have a loop hole in being able to stay, they can re-apply and re-apply for more study visas, right up to Phd etc, once they are here long enough, they get to stay. They all know the loopholes better then the average Irish person. Wake up or soon this will not be Ireland but a simple airport terminal.

certain?

You haven’t back it up with facts. It’s pure prejudice.

It’s not racism,it’s an opinion based on certain facts about Jews

Assertions are not facts. By all means, provide the facts but until you do your comments will remain as mere opinion.

If there’s four things I hate its racists and paddies.

“I’m not racist but…..”

Its becoming increasingly embarrassing being Irish these days. Never has the ‘Thick Ignorant Paddy’ stereotype been so true, on every level

Damien, you remind me of a feller that used to post on Indymedia – would you be the re-incarnated Opus Diablos, same kind a waffle started appearing here when he gave up on that nasty little site!

I know the bastard you mean Luigi…right bloody waffler.

Not at all. Sure you must remember me.

I gave you communion Sunday morning. Aren’t we in the same Opus Dei lodge? Yerr gettin awfil forgetful.

Say three Heil Mary Horny and we’ll say no more about it.

Spot, another one on the ball! We don’t need wannabe photographers, desk top publishers etc and those chancers with pumped up CVs that are so damn impressive you’d rarely see an experienced 40 year old with. We all can lie, but employers want honest workers don’t they or do they? Whats your salary expectations? Next. Whats your salary expectations?

Surely you’re allowed to work certain amount of hours on a student visa?

I know you are allowed to work for some few hours during the week, but the immigration officer was so hostile to me and he stamped ” Not allowed To Work” on my passport. Didn’t want to argue with him as its my first time being abroad and was afraid he might reject to stamp my visa

I do understand that am allowed to work 20 hours a week. But when i first arrived and went to the immigration to register myself with them the officer was soo hostile to me lol!!! and he ended stamping my passport with a huge “Not allowed to Work or engage in any Buisenes Transaction” i didn’t want to argue as it was my first time abroad and was nervous/scared that he might cancel nor reject to cancel my visa.
Am ain’t from a wealthy family. My Single mum is only struggling to pay my fees as she hopes that once i finish college and get a job i might help her in the future, as i do remember she had to sell some of her stuff to raise the money.
about staying in Ireland when i finish it all depends. Wherever i will get a job that’s the place i will stay be it Africa, Asia or Europe so long as i earn and help my family who is really struggling for me

Are you God almighty Tom? That guy has been polite, charming and open with us in commenting and you accuse him of lying?
Thinly veiled bigotry

Who told you students are eligible to apply for citizenship in Ireland.
Check your facts right Tom

@Tom Before placing any misinformed, inaccurate or simply ignorant comments against others, it would be kind of you if you could check the immigration laws here. There are two different types of Stamp that are given to students here. Stamp 2 given to students allow them to work 20hours during term time and up to 40 hours during college breaks. And then you have Stamp 2A where the student are NOT allowed to work AT ALL.

Never-mind Tom. Hes one of those that believe everyone hops off a plane here and gets welfare, and that its all the Polish taking Irish jobs. Yawn, yawn, yawn

If u hold stamp 2, u can work. It just say on The stamp ” you are not allowed to engage any business or profession” And I am sure that u have renewed ur visa since that hostile immigration officer. Is up to u to ask them to give you the appropriate stamp. U have nothing to lose assuming that u haven’t done anything wrong or illegal .

@Aine How on earth would you know if this guy has been open with us?
Are you letting your pre-conceived notions get in the way of impartial judgment?

This guy has spun a yarn about a “hostile” immigration agent who apparently stamped “not allowed work” on his visa for no other reason than “he seemed to be in a bad mood”

You must like the taste of masonry, keep on swallowing those bricks Aine Ni Chroinin.

@Morgan James,

Dont you get tired of making a fool out of yourself?

As for your pathetic attempt to discredit me by falsely claiming I say “all the Polish took our jobs”
I think my Polish girlfriend would disagree with you on that one.

Hold on, hold on…Tom what did you just write? You have a Polish girlfriend, living in Ireland? Yet you have been ranting about immigration and how you are so anti multiculturalism because it is a disaster, yet your girlfriend is Polish and immigrated here…

This clown is too much, I am honestly lost for words. I am embarrassed you are Irish :(

We should allow certain amount of people as we always have in order to come here and study, but on the strict condition they return to their home countries. That way you can better benefit your own country and put your education to use in bettering Kenya, that way, Ireland would not have to spend millions on the foreign aid we give you in money and man hours in volunteer work in engineering and medical projects. I suppose we are racist for all that aid we gave Africa too.

@Nial Boylan,

I agree with a lot your points but I think you could be a bit off the mark with the positive generalisation in regard to possible benefits non EU immigrants in particular bring to Ireland.

According to the CSO list of occupations the vast majority of immigrants both EU and non EU do not bring any skills that we dont already have an abundance of nationally already as they are mainly employed in the low skilled areas of the service sector.
Of course there are some immigrants (a minority) who are highly skilled and make an immediate contribution to Irish society and its economy, but that is the exception rather than the rule.

The fall out of what is a lack of social cohesion due to the multicultural system will be catastrophic in Ireland in the next 10 to 15 years, look at the ethnic ghettos in London, Paris, Berlin, Stockholm and Amsterdam as an example of what happens when immigrants dont integrate and assimilate into Irish society.

I once heard a representative of the African (Nigerian) community in Ireland speak on TV about immigration into Ireland from Africa, she spoke with a sense of entitlement in regards to her “right” to come to Ireland and her “right” to citizenship and how the Irish people should learn to adapt our culture to be more inclusive of her African culture, she claimed she should have the right to live culturally the same in Ireland as she did in Nigeria and any opposition to this or suggestion she should integrate and assimilate was nothing but ignorance of her culture and racist.

She declared all of these rights for herself and her fellow country men and women despite the fact nobody forcefully took her to Ireland, she came into our society of her own free will and expects the Irish people to change and adapt their ancient and rich culture to accommodate her ways but was not willing to do the same.

This attitude is epitomises the general views of the multiculturalists, they ignore the hard learned lessons of the past and continue to push for a multicultural society despite the fact most academics and leaders of multicultural societies have declared it has been an unmitigated disaster and a total failure.

When the liberal leftist or socialist one worlders are faced with these undeniable facts, they have no other recourse but to invent a strawman argument. This is the point in most debates when you will notice the grossly over used words bigot, racist and right wing fascist or some other nonsense being spouted completely out of context with the goal being to discredit the legitimate concerns surrounding mass, unsustainable immigration into Ireland.

Tom Rooney, your ignorance is encyclopedic.

@Allan, how so, Is the limit of your ability to articulate a point? Please explain what part of posts displayed ignorance.

Interesting comment Niall. Just to debate them out a bit.

“Different cultures have different ideas and characteristics. Merging these ideas can lead to a synergy that forwards human progress.”

It can also lead to a reversal, a regression. Merging cultures does not always lead to better things, sometimes it leads to the destruction of cultures that were once great or at least better.

The great Persian Empire was destroyed by the monocultural Greeks, especially the fascist Spartans who as a civilisation gave us much of our founding principles and sciences.
The once great monocultural Roman Empire started allowing in non-Romans as lower tier occupants, however loathsome their slavery etc, their strength in their early days was because they were monocultural and led by a single homogenous people, the monocultural barbarians absolutely tore them apart as Rome became less homogenous and soft.
Monocultural China is the up and coming power, multicultural America and Europe is fading and becoming rotten.

“The developed countries have got where they are by exploiting weaker less organised countries. They should give something back to human society, by giving people from less economically fortunate cultures a chance to build a life in a more prosperous place.”

This is a nonsense and a fraudulent argument put forward by neo-marxists whose agenda has been to dismantle everything that western or European heritage has built. Most of it is lies, half truths propagated especially by neo-marxist universities and academics.
1) Not all European countries were involved in colonialism. Ireland? Sweden? Denmark? Finland? Iceland? Norway? Switzerland? Austria? German involvement was very small, and so on. What do they owe anyone?
2) The developed countries got where they are by intelligence, is it colonialism that got us the internet, or European brainpower? It was European brainpower that powered much of science, the industrial revolution, the renaisannce, before that, Newgrange and stonehenge etc, European man had been progressing and a leader of technolocial innovation for 1000s of years, long before any colonisation, it is that which gave us the real advantage.
3) Before slavery Africans were killing each other and enslaving each other, it was Africans who raided further into the interior of Africa to raid, plunder and rape other African tribes and sell them to Jewish slave traders. In fact it was Europeans who made representations to end slavery, under our own inclinations of the best instincts of our race. The British Navy moved to end slavery while African and Jewish slave traders protested against the ending of the slave trade. Europeans did much to better the lives of people living in Africa, there was more violence before Europeans arrived.
4) Arabs also took 120 million African slaves, why is there no mass immigration into Saudi Arabia? Why no call for the Arab nations to “give something back”? Saudi Arabia only banned slavery from the official statute books in 1968, yet I see none of the same righteous infignation against these nations or calls to multicult their countries, why? Indeed today modern commercial colonialism is now being conducted by china and arab nations in Africa, who are buying up vast tracts of Africa in order to grow food for Chinese and Arab people, paying the locals slavery fees, who do not benefit from this, this is the modern colonialism, yet again, the silence from the leftists is sickening and hypocritical.
5)Europe has given trillions in aid money to Africa and the 3rd world, we have given trillions of man hours in volunteer work, we have provided medical relief, engineering projects, building their infrastructure and schools, we have paid any theoretical and nonsensical notions of debt we may ever have owed the 3rd world, possibly 100 times over. We owe them nothing, least of all now access to scant resources we need for our own people, which is what having a national territory is partly all about, as well as enjoying the company and culture of ones own kind. We need Ireland as a territory of resource, to feed, clothe our own people, to look after our own elderly, sick, disadvantaged, vulnerable, mentally disabled, physically disabled, we need Ireland to look after our own people, there is enough suffering and hardship in Ireland for all of our people to try to help out with, rather then looking to try to look after other nations first, simply because it is more ‘cool’ or exotic. It is time Africa and other places started bearing some responsibility for the state it is in and fixing it’s problems. Uganda aid corruption, need I say more.
6) Power does not happen in a vacuum, if some countries are less powerful, then other countries dominate and fill the void left by others, or not taken by others. If some European countries had not had colonies in Africa, then the colonial Arabs, or the chinese, or the russians – (even though European, they are also Siberian.) Any of these powers would have filled the space not filled by the western European powers, the proof of that is seen today where China and Arab countries are now engaged in modern commercial colonialism in Africa buying vast areas of Africa to support their own countries and people with foodstuffs and other materials. The people of Africa are practical slaves in this exchange. Where is the outrage and call for justice here.

You know people in the west are so neurotically focussed on ourselves and our own past, another form of selfishness, that they are so consumed with ourselves, trying to blame ourselves for things we should not be blamed for, that they miss the bigger picture or real modern threats and enslavements being perpetrated. If China or Arab countries had colonised the 3rd world, I think the African people etc would have been treated far far worse. What kind of world would we be living in today if they had? As bad as it is now, how much worse would it have been?

Well said Bro.

Thanks Morgan!

It doesn’t take long for racism to rear it’s ugly head does it? Though actually I wonder is it actually purely racism, or just a continuation of what the Irish have always been so good at – fear and hatred of difference.

@marlon and @issa – if you haven’t been here long, you could almost think that the Irish were trying to return to some sort of perfect place that existed before all these ‘outsiders’ arrived. That Ireland before immigration was a heavenly place of constant happiness to which we all long to return.

Only it wasn’t, it was no bloody nirvana at all.

It was an inward-looking, mono-cultural, bigoted, small-minded suffocating place where to look, behave or think in any way differently from the ‘norm’ was not just frowned upon but likely to have you at best ostracised or at worst incarcerated if you didn’t manage to run away first. And run away many people did. You think all the emigrants back then left because they couldn’t get work? That people fled small town Ireland at the first opportunity just because they had to? Sure, for most that was the reason, but for many it was to escape, to get away to a place where they could live the kind of life they wanted, which was never going to be possible otherwise. People are still leaving for that reason.

Personally, I love the mix we are seeing more of now. The fact that unlike me at their age, my kids have friends from upwards of a dozen nations and think nothing of it. That when I walk down a street there are people speaking different languages, who look different, think differently and are bringing all this difference here to us and making it part of what we will be.

So it’s not just pure racism that’s at work – though that’s there too – it’s differencism (if I may) that you see. We treated ‘our own’ no better when they didn’t conform and as a result lost a lot of the best of them. We need you more than you need us if the truth be told.

Welcome here, and may you prosper.

Katie!

Thanks for your comments. I’m sure your children are benefitting from your wisdom.

Marlon you seem to imply you are a born US citizen but your broken English would indicate you’re not a native speaker of the language. Which is it?

Tom,

My apologies for the typos… Working off of my cell phone. Regardless, my typos or bad grammar shouldn’t make a difference. It’s the content that is worthy of consideration.

Considering your focus on my grammar, you imply that you are a teacher… Possibly a teacher turned politician, waiting to collect two pensions, holding the space so that a qualified teacher cannot get full-time secure employment, over paid and under-skilled as a politician. Or maybe not, maybe you are the first scream foul and that you’re a victim, when at all times you have the power to make a difference. Whatever the case Tom, it’s not the cover of the book that counts…. It is always the content.

Oh and yes…. I was born in the US, a native speaker of English with a couple of other languages collected while at university.

@Marlon,

Not once did I imply I was a teacher.
Your entire rant is baseless and irrelevant.
Ireland simply does not need any more non EU immigrants with low skills, it is an undeniable fact.
It’s not personal, I dont have any issues with races or ethnicities, but I wont bury my head in the sand and keep schtum for fear of brain dead morons pulling the race card when they realise they have backed themselves into a corner with their own idiocy.

As for the worn out non argument about Irish people in various countries around the world, so feckin what?
Just because an Irish person may have emigrated to a different country that doesn’t mean there should be carte blanche for every immigrant on the planet who might want to come to Ireland.

Oh Tom, just crawl back under your neanderthal rock. Please.

Hi Tom,

I’m really sorry for taking the time to respond to your message. After reviewing your other comments I see you for what you are. And what you are isn’t worth commenting on. Maybe you find comfort in anatomization, bullying and fueled anger? Whatever the case.., Have a good life and good night.

Tom, you truly are stupid. You’re actually contradicting yourself :( What a nasty little man

@Marlon,
Please keep the emotional outbursts to a minimum, adults are trying to discuss important issues here.

@marlon I am truly sorry you have to deal with the likes of Tom. I can only hope that you encounter fewer of his ilk than people who treat you with respect and perhaps even the friendliness that we are supposedly famous for. Hah.

Tom, you have spewed your hate all over this thread and it’s ugly. That you’ve got so many thumbs up just adds to the sickening feeling it leaves me with. We’ve come some way in leaving behind the small mindedness that for so long characterised Ireland, but clearly we’ve a long, long way to go yet.

Katie,

Thanks for your kind words. Life has taught me that intelligence doesn’t always cancel out ignorance, stupidity or bigotry. Furthermore, Tom has implied that his personal association with a Polish person proves his tolerance and understanding…. This is not always the case. I truly wish Tom the best of luck in his life and pray that he never encounters discrimination for his physical attributes. But then again, I’m sure his personality, manners and opinions proceeds him.

Tom it’s time to close the door. We have done our bit and can’t afford it any longer. We get very little return at the end of the day

Marlon

Who asked the Irish people whether we wanted mass immigration, NO-ONE. So yes you are all illegal, it is an illegal policy foisted on the Irish people. Every single nation on this earth has a right to be left alone and to be themselves. We have a right to be Irish and for this, our country to be left as our country. Keep the word bigotry, because that is wrongly used for that idea. A nation of people having the right to stay who they are. That is a human right, for you to deny us that, is bigotry.

Brian,You have a right to dislike emigration, changes in Ireland and progress. However, it appearsthat you are one of the many that carries a chip on your shoulder for the 800 years of occupation. Your comment appears angry, which I suggest isn’t productive. Further, a few of your points lack complete reasoning.

Please note before emigration, many Irish left this country for survival. Many of these Irish were uneducated and unskilled. However, they had a desire to survive and make good for their families left in Ireland. Furthermore, many countries such as the US accepted these persons. These persons are now part of the fabric of America. They have added to the richness of America and the maney they earned fortified the Irish economy. Since America closed the door to open immigration, many Irish have continued immigrate to America, legally and illegally. Do you recall the American Green Card lotteries that use to go on here in Ireland and how lucky a person felt when winning a card? The reason why the felt so lucky, is that there was no prospects here in Ireland. Once again… This is before emigration.

Without emmigration this country would become insular and this isn’t good.

Another point… There are many immigrants like myself, who chose to live here, are legally, and where educated before arriving to these shores. I would argue that my university degrees, past work experience and taxes paid to the Irish government are making a positive impact on my adopted country, Ireland.

I said immigration Marlon, mass-immigration not emigration. However emigration is also bad for the Irish, every generation should have the right to see their children and grand children grow up and grow up in their own native culture free from having tyrannical policies foisted on them, like austerity and mass immigration.

If you are going to throw around accusations then you should be able to back them up.
Show how I have a chip on my shoulder and show where I am angry, if it appears angry to you, then that is something that is in your head and a problem you have. I think you have a chip on your shoulder against the perceived wrongs of white people, I have stated nothing but facts that go against the multicult nonsense spouted, I suggest your own anger at not being able to counter such facts is at play here. Examine your self.

Your point about the Irish emigrating to other countries is wrong on so many points it is hard to know where to begin to correct it. It is also a very insulting comment, to say the Irish need an influx of peoples who are not Irish. How do you think our Irish culture survived and is so rare and rich, it is precisely because the Irish are one of the most homogenous native peoples on the planet. Tell me how do you think according to you, the backward Irish made Newgrange, an earthwork of geo-astrological significance and complexity built before the Egyptian pyramids. Our homogenous ancestors all of western European origin created some of the best examples of gold artwork and artifacts the world has seen. The book of Kells etc, Our ancestors were looking to the stars long before other races or nations. At a time when we were even more homogenous then we are now. Ireland was also known as the island of saints and scholars which did much to re-educated the continent after the fall of Rome, Irish people were much sought after by electronics companies in the 80′s and 90′s because of our intelligence and creative ingenuity, all this before any so-called need for immigrants, your point that we need it to enrich us is so incorrect and such a blatant falsehood it is staggering. The homogenous Irish produced some of the best inventions and creations the world has ever seen. Backwards my foot.

1) The Irish were forced to leave during the famine, they did not choose to, they also were forced to leave for Oz, as convicts, unjustly convicted through Penal tyrnanical laws. Others went to the colonial HQ, Britain.
2) The Irish did not just become part of the fabric of America later on. THE IRISH WERE ONE OF THE EUROPEAN NATIONS THAT FOUNDED, DESIGNED, BUILT, FOUGHT AND DIED FOR AMERICA. We did not just become part of the fabric, we were one of the chief architects and builders of America, we sacrificed and died to bring it about.
3) America is a European made political entity, we have and had every right to go to a state that is part of our heritage, Nigeria is not part of our heritage, we would have no right to go there. Nigeria is a settled nation state, not one person other than Nigerians have a right to Nigeria, same goes for Ireland. America was seen as a new world, a new country, many Europeans went there and founded it, it was a European made state. Europeans have the right to go to a country made by them and is part of their ancestral heritage. We did not go to Africa or Asia and change the very nature of their populations and culture out of all recognition. Ireland is not an immigration country, it is a settled nation state of the Irish people and culture, a homeland and sanctuary for the Irish.

Well said Brian, you’re sharing many inconvenient truths that the multicultists would prefer to sweep under the carpet.

Tom

We are dealing with a phenomenon known as a cult or religion. People follow it once it becomes common currency, it’s message and image of being the new in-thing and the new cool trend pushed and reinforced in the media, once that is communicated to the masses, it becomes the automatic thing to follow and say yes to.

Anyone opposing it is seen as uncool and outside the herd, it goes further then that, they are seen as mad, or dangerous. Thus you then have the hysterical screams of R-A-C-I-S-M, N-A-Z-I, H-A-T-E-R, as well as a usual list they read off, such as, uneducated, ignorant, thug etc. These are automatic labels, nothing you say id addressed, the mob now in full hysterical frenzy are in full rabid mode, rushing off to get the witch burner to slay the evil-doer and hater. You are upsetting their trendy comfy time, discommoding the brainwashing that has been lodged in their heads and even though what you say strikes a cord that it is right, just and moral, it is fighting against what is fashionable, cool and accepted by the crowd, so to go against that is also dangerous for them, it takes a certain pair of balls or ovaries to go against the crowd, to stand alone and say the opposite of what their new religion has brainwashed into them. Because sure as hell, if they could get away with it, if the laws were not there, they would indeed lynch you or burn you at the stake. When these types have power they soon do start to erode and eat away at laws that support rationale and logic and they try to make new acceptable edicts that allow them to burn people such as you and me.

There is nothing more intolerant then a liberal or extreme leftist with power. You already see how they try to control you with their screams and labels, they are the thought control police, these people are the defintion of fascist that they label everyone else, they do not want debate, they simple want people like you and me dead. They truly are dangerous type of people, the most oppressive and tyrannical control freaks, disguised for the moment as humanitarians, only because they do not have the power…….for now.

Spot on Brian, articulate and to the point. Hopefully the people with intelligence will at least consider what you have written, it may force them to rethink and change their media educated perceptions.

Thanks Tom. Keep up your fact laden and calm comments, your comments are very effective exactly because you are calm and present facts. The rabid hysterics hate nothing more then to see the people they label as thuggish, uneducated, ignorant hate-mongering wacist nazis, as being bright, intelligent, articulate capable people who are not cowed by their attempts to shut you up, who have the backbone and moral fibre of their convictions, but not only that, the sheer affrontary to be equipped with the facts, to show these real tyrants that the facts are indeed on our side, they adopt mere transitory illusory fashion, no doubt because behind it all are presonages of dubious unsound quality. Long may continue to stand your corner no matter if all the world say different, your corner is Irelands corner and no less the freedom of the Irish people and from there the people of every nation.

Based upon the comments that I have read on Journal.ie I’m very disappointed. In this beautiful country, this land of innocence and this land of curiosity… There is just as much ignorance, misguided intelligence and fear as there is in America.

Marlon

The ignorance stems from yourself. You have yet to show how any person who is opposed to immigration into our country has shown any fear or racism. Ireland did not have this mass immigration policy before the mid 90′s, we were never accused of the ridiculous names you try on here. Your comment is a blatant attempt at false emotional blackmailing guilt tripping of people into accepting your selfish aims to be in our country. You should be ashamed of yourself. We owe Africans or any other race nothing. We have given millions to Africa in aid, millions of man hours in volunteer work, medical and engineering projects, we owe you nor them not one thing. How dare you try to trade on emotional blackmail and guilt trip a people who have given so much already of themselves, their resources, their time and effort. How dare you.

Lol! What a laugh.. In a good way. I’m an American of African, Irish and Native American decent. I acquried several college degrees, and speak several languages. I wasn’t born to privilege, so I had to work my way through undergraduate and graduate school. I relocated to Ireland for several reasons and none of them was for welfare or asylum.

Furthermore, my family tree is a quilt of many different skin tones and religions. My spouse is a native of Ireland and I’m a law abiding tax payer. The skills that I bring to Ireland are in demand….

Finally, I count my blessings. .. Never have I been angry for the ignorance and fear that perpetrated racism and hate in America. I have worked hard to achieve what I have achieved and would never let haters found on this site bring me down like crabs in a barrel. I’ve dealt with worse.

One thing you will find is that for all Ireland’s naivety, we still are quite an uncanny nation of people. And because race r skin colour has nothing to do with this, it is why I can respond to you the same way I would respond to any Irish person after seeing your utter nonsensical replies.

I think you are a spoofer and a liar.

Now again, for the 2nd time, show me where the racism is in my post, should be very easy, for a person with several degrees, several languages and several races all mixed into one, your profile photo however does not betray any signs of native american or Irish, but even if you were, so what, I thought this was all about, NOT BEING ABOUT RACE. Yet you are the one who brings race into it. You are nosensical, I do not find you intelligent at all. Now show where the racism is, back up your nonsense claims.

I find none of this funny, when Irish people old, sick, cancer patients, disabled, mentally disabled, home help people stressed out to hell, all in need of funds that we are spending on both mass immigration policies and asylum claims and austerity, my people are dying because of these policies, I can assure you, it is no laughing matter.

You do make a good point there all though you getting thumbs down for no reason.

exactly, is there an actual Skills shortage list for Ireland just like Canada and Australia etc? I’d like to see it and if there is one then it should be enforced cause i seriously don’t think it is AT ALL! Nurses aren’t IT but hey we all know they have difficulty paying them too for the long hours they work and they do work hard! So its not a skills shortage there or maybe its what Noonan means when he let slip “it’s a lifestyle choice” that we have to emigrate. Ha! See, it is all part of the plan. Some on here can see it, others sadly don’t. Very sad.

Not sure how up to date this is but…

Work permits will NOT be considered for any of the below job categories:

http://www.visafirst.com/en/irish_work_permit_conditions.asp

interesting, very, espeically ” Nursery/ Crèche Workers, Child Minder/ Nanny”

In the category ‘Transport Staff’: All drivers (excluding HGV) does that include Taxi Drivers???

Asylum applications aren’t either.

Hi,

I don’t believe there to be any inaccuracy here. The figure of 88,000 is visa-specific, and forms part of the total of 165,700, “which included visa, residence, protection and citizenship requests.”

Kind Regards,

Paul

@Enver this isnt about some irish haters hating on non eu nationals this is about visa numbers entering this country. Alot of people are questioning why is this happening considering so many irish are leaving to live abroad as there is no jobs.

We have seen

1 There is skills shortgages so irish govt must tackle that issue.

2 People coming to study nothing wrong with that but others suggesting that is a ruse by some people to get in.

3 Possibly people coming to take advantage of social welfare

4 Asylum seekers nothing wrong with that

5 And others short term visits etc

The ignorance is all yours. Your view is very short sighted and narrow. Mass immigration leads to destruction of indigenous cultures, it leads to impoverishment of diversity and culture. Your self appointment as high priest of culture and compassion, is something right out of institutionalised religion. ” I am the wise and know far far better than thee”. The snobbery and piety is remarkable to behold. Ignorance parading as self appointed multicult grandee wizard.

Agreed. On the other hand sometimes it is a fine line when talking about stuff like this. I hope nobody is been racist on here. I certainly hope I am not .

Totally agree stopping visas would be crazy but on the other hand it should be visas for studying and visas where we have a skills shortgages until we have the necessary skills in the country to be filled by Irish or European worker’s.

Also I suspect our visa system is been abused. On the other hand I have no proof but it needs to be checked by the government.

It is totally messed up that our nation is sending abroad tens of thousands of people while they cant get a job and there is jobs here but the people are not trianed for the positions so we need massive re training to fill sectors that are booming like the IT sector.

@Declan The skills shortage we have is mainly in the tech sector, and while it’s easy to say ‘let’s retrain people’ it isn’t as simple as that.

You can’t take an unemployed carpenter or brickie or hospitality worker – all skills that were in demand during the boom – send them on a wee course and magically churn out people with the skills that are in demand, it just cannot be done. Partly because these skills take a LONG time to acquire – we are not talking about the moronic ECDL here, but real skills – and partly because unless you are genuinely interested in acquiring them (for their own sake, not just while you wait for the recession to pass) you never will.

So many young people were deluded into believing that the boom would last forever that they either left education early for employment or educated themselves into jobs which are like hens teeth now. It is changing, tech courses are growing massively in popularity, but it will take time for that to feed through to the market.

Languages are another area where there is high demand, especially when combined with excellent computer literacy. We have been pointlessly teaching Irish to students for generations, whereas we’d have been doing them a much bigger favour by teaching them languages that might actually have some practical benefit in their lives.

If we get the education of our youth wrong, we haven’t a leg to stand on when companies need to import people to do the work we are not equipped to do. And these people are contributing to our economy when we need as many people as possible to do that – not just because they pay tax here and spend their money here, but because they are adding to the skills pool, which benefits everyone.

Tell us why is stopping visas in the current mass-visa issuing frenzy, crazy?

We had multinationals before in Ireland without all the modern multicult open border madness. Stricter borders was never a problem before, why now?

I think your own comment is the negative one. The measures you describe are just. In fact it is not strict enough. There is nothing positive about an idigenous people and culture becoming extinct.

I agree with you.

What countries that we have no ancestral ties to, no historical link in founding, designing, building, fighting and dying for, did we ever go to? And what country not like this did we go to in our 100s and 1000s changing the very nature of the population and culture of that country. Africa? Pakistan? India? China?

Get back to me when you learn to spell

Aine,

That’s handy, comment on his spelling to duck out of the more important element of the point he makes, which you cannot obviously answer.

No the Irish did not go all over the world. The Irish went to U.S, UK, Oz, NZ, Canada. European countries we helped found, design, build, fight and died for. These countries are European countries that we have an ancestral link to. We did not go to Africa or Pakistan etc and swamp them changing the very nature of their populations and culture. Your brainwashed zombie mantra is void.

Nonsense, India has nearly 1 billion people, Africa has millions upon millions of people, millions of people are trying to get to Europe. Try travelling to Greece to see what I am talking about. We are taking the overspill of these continents people, they know the loopholes, they know that if they get in on a student visa, they can keep renewing it and if they are here long enough, they get to stay here. There is no doubt, most of these visas, student or whatever else are visas for people with the express aim, of getting the foot in the door to stay here. Ask the Migrant Rights Centre and their hushed whispers amongst themselves of how they just fill out forms and take steps as in their own words….”JUST TO GET THEM IN HERE”

Agreed. Irish people, they just let themselves down….every time, left behind as the rest of the world move forward. The ignorance is astounding :(

Very little racist comments from what I can see so keep the racist card under your pillow for another time.

If you could show the racism that would be really great. Or is that just a knee-jerk Orwellian screaming response to shut people up and report them for thinking the wrong thoughts, you are on dangerous anti-freedom territory there pal.

an dem jackeens cumin doun robbin our chickens necks ..

So Ireland is not a certain finite size, with a certain finite number of jobs. So when you add more people, the competition and demand for the jobs goes up. Is this not the same as less jobs for the Irish people, the natives of this country, who are descended from a western European peoples. Are Culchies not related to Dubliners, or other western European peoples. Think you’ll find, that jobs are taken, when more people are imported.

So Ireland is not a certain finite size, with a certain finite number of jobs. So when you add more people, the competition and demand for the jobs goes up. Is this not the same as less jobs for the Irish people, the natives of this country, who are descended from a western European peoples. Are Culchies not related to Dubliners, or other western European peoples. Think you’ll find, that jobs are taken, when more people are imported.

You are not surprised at the good and healthy natural instinct alive and well in any indigenous or native people to oppose their extinction and their cultures destruction, no doubt you would not be surprised if you saw the homogenous African Masai Mara nation opposing mass immigration of non Masai Mara people onto their land, in fact you would be applauding it. The hypocrisy is staggering.

Funny that Snuffbox, I could have sworn I came into a menial job this morning paying just above minimum wage despite having a trade and funding my part time in university.

Irish people are excellent workers and far from lazy or shy of taking up low income jobs, the problem is employers prefer to employ a non national as 9 times out of 10 they are easier to exploit.

Tom you are so ignorant its actually hillarious

Very intellectual input there Morgan James…..it’s no wonder you’re too ashamed to show a picture of yourself.

I’m amazed you have the audacity to show your face Tom, for a myriad of reasons

Morgan, I think Tom is actually right. We keep hearing this spin about a lack of skills in the I.T sector, in brackets, we don’t want to pay proper wages. There is absolutely no lack of graduates here.

Tom IS right, the only ones disagreeing are either immigrants themselves, the well paid and happy or employers (both irish and immigrant employers) who don’t want their little party to end BUT it will end. In fact NERA are becoming inundated with complaints mostly from foreigner workers issues here, its all starting to seep through the cracks now. I knew this though for the past 5 years. Party over and Noonan is not going to save you, Employment Law and tough Immigration policies will end your little party.

Fact is it?

How come I see quite a few Irish people in McDonalds and as security men on graveyard shifts? Below them is it?

Fact is the Irish are crying out for work, any work.

Hi Aine and Katie, I’m bit simple is me.

Can U please help me can u list and identify the remarks made on this thread which your suggesting are racist.

Seriously this is not a joke. I ain’t got a clue what ur referring to. By the way this is my first comment on this thread so I certainly have not been racist here. But I would like to know what I should not write in future in case I would cross the line…. Best Rgds, yours sincerely Shane.

I keep asking leftists like yourself to show all this racism and xenophobia (irrational fear of the alien/foreigner), but you loopers never do, would that be factophobia on your part?

Not sure, but quiet a few years ago myself and a few student friends spent a summer in London shoveling cement on a building site. Two of the lads decided not to bother working and got the dole straight away. That was a good few years ago though.

Yep that is messed up. Hopefully that didn’t deter you from keep looking.

but is there a skill shortage here for your particular teaching than can’t be filled by one here? You know, same type of thing as in Australia etc, you know the Skill list. Thats not very sick, we all have to abide by it. See, many many that have gone to Australia and Canada from here are trades people, many were here during the building boom. They need electricians, carpenters etc. They don’t need me, my skill is not a shortage over there so i can’t really go and just have to swallow it, but… its not sick! You know, they are NOT racist people over there, understand now? : )

How is Irish children being taught by a person from their own culture, sick?

Who died? And what society does not sequester some of the mentally ill? And why is the latter racist?

Everybody else relax. These are people who came during the boom, contributed to Ireland and want to become citizens now. They didn’t come last year, so the recession argument won’t wash.

No the figures are only for applications.

Who died Allan? That’s awful fiction.