Demonstrators at Dame Street this week
Image: Niall Carson/PA Wire
THE GOOD FOLKS at TheLineIreland have been down on Dame Street to ask protestors why they are there…
WATCH: What’s Occupy Dame Street all about?
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10/11/11 #
I get it, it’s about NOTHING!
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10/11/11 #
Not far off – from where I see it it knows very well what it’s not about, but is less sure what it actually is. This is a problem, imho. Very definitely.
“The barricades were up in Paris: everyone was talking about ‘instant revolution’: and when Cohn-Bendit held a question and answer session, I made myself immediately unpopular by asking: ‘What’s your strategy? What is the next step the students will take?’ Cohn-Bendit said impatiently ‘the whole point of our revolution is that we do not follow plans. It is a spontaneous permanent revolution. We improvise it. It is like jazz.’ Everyone applauded and reproved my carping.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2011/10/dream_on.html
Still think it’s better than nothing, though, and has the potential to be something great.
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10/11/11 #
well done and fair play to them.
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10/11/11 #
Ah optics. No doubt some vested interests will focus on the people (hippies/students) rather then whats most important – the message.
I do believe we can do much much better then the current capitalist and politician systems that we currently have.
I believe that most people know what is going on is wrong. Kind of like when you know something is not quite right but you can’t put your finger on it. Some people are just accepting of it out of defeat, most of us just don’t know how to change things and feel helpless.
Occupy dame street is not a waste of time. I don’t just democracy simply by the changes people can make, it is also shown by the people at least being able to voice their disgust in the peaceful manner they are doing it.
Well done to the minority of the forgotten standing up for what the majority of us really do believe in.
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10/11/11 #
To be honest, any time someone secures their rhetorical position on the idea of a ‘silent majority’ that *really* agree with them, even if they *think* that they don’t , well that’s usually a sign the actual facts don’t bear up to scrutiny,
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Good man Peter, nail on the head!
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11/11/11 #
It’s hard not to focus on optics when the only two guys interviewed look like bloody hobbits. What do they want? They wants jobs and to be taken seriously? Scisors and a bath may yield some results here.
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10/11/11 #
It’s hard to believe that poverty has become so bad that the first lad can even afford a pair of scissors
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10/11/11 #
Ok I’m none the wiser after that clip. To me all it did was reinforce the perception of a few that it’s a hippy movement. Sorry.
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10/11/11 #
Allow me to explain, by people camping outside in protest, a message gets out, media take note, and slowly but surely people have an opinion on the situation and also people develop an opinion on how finance is managed in the western world. Basically for the first time, people begin to genuinely take note that there is shafting going on, and alot(not all) of financial investors are just lucky gamblers and not actually intelligent quick thinking entrepreneurs and that the tax payers pays the price for these gambles. Dont get me wrong I have my own issues with the protests, but I have the decency to at listen to a point the guy made there rather than just labelling them hippys.
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10/11/11 #
Ok if you have time watch this documentary. It could explain the whole movement a little better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
Simple fact is 1% of the world popluation owns 40% of the planets wealth
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Surely the trouble, Adrian, is that by activities like Occupy Dame Street people have their “opinion on the situation and … develop an opinion on how finance is managed in the western world” that’s *negative* towards the position of the activists.
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I think this documentary explains the whole movement better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rgBufgoHiE -
I didn label then hippys. Just saying that from the video the people they picked to talk will reinforce people’s perception.
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10/11/11 #
while there is always going to be a few useless layabouts who have never worked and have no intention of ever working and occupy themselves protesting. I would say the majority of the protesters are genuine and have a very valid cause to protest about. in general the Irish have become a gutless, selfish, greedy people and have lost all sense of is moral thinking. in general we don’t give a damn unless something personally affects us.
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Boo Hoo!
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10/11/11 #
If nobody can see greed any more then is everybody greedy? The occupy movement is trying a new concept of a leaderless movement in this current over information age it is possible for this to happen wheather it is corruptable is another debate altogether. However bringing attention to greediness and how human beings are being ripped off is something I do support. I have been down to this protest and I suggest if you don’t understand it you go down and question the purpose of it. At least they are trying to expose the fraud and greed that our government and banking friends have perpetrated.
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10/11/11 #
Well said Simon. The new and unknown usually worries people . Remarks about long haired hippies are narrowminded too. We’ve been listening to people in suits with short hair for long enough and where has that got us ? Its what the Occupy movement is saying that is important. Power greed and corruption are causing the death of democracy.
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10/11/11 #
Haha “eh eh I don’t know I’m not an economist”. Clearly.
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What do economists know other then promotion and solutions within a failed marketing system ?
I know a huge part of the problem is that governments revert to socialist measures that hinder capitalism but this will always be the case. With that in mind capitalism is a lame duck system that we need to change.
Not having all the answers doesn’t make me wrong , but it’s sad that the majority of the world have been confirmed and programmed to follow whatever they are told, even in the face of criminal and oppressive measures being taken by investors who are now deciding who runs countries and how they should be run! Does this not frighten the s:it out of people?
This is not simply the market correcting itself , this is panicky governments bowing to whatever investors are telling them to do.
Ah but sure isn’t this the way the world works ? If you can’t beat em , just get the head down, hope they don’t come after Ireland anymore and payback as much as we can and hope they don’t notice us!
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10/11/11 #
Hey, even the economists don’t seem to know what they’re talking about anymore..
Capitalism and socialism (communism too) have all failed and what we need is to either adopt what is useful from either and ditch the rest or – here’s a novel idea – find a new “ism”.
None of these systems allow for the fact that there are a large number of what the media terms “ordinary psychopaths” out there, they crave power and money (and aren’t necessarily murderers) – so where do you think they aspire to be? Heads of corporations, governments and organised religions or cults..
This is why socialism / capitalism and even communism failed. None of them took these people (who make up about 6% of the population) into account.. They ignored human greed and how it can be exploited by each of these systems.. They ignored just how compassionless these psychos can be when they get the power they seek.
Perhaps we need to let go of the old ways of doing things and try something new.. Something that is either less corruptible or accounts for the presence of psychopathy..
One way or another we all know that the isms have failed..
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10/11/11 #
This Ted talk will tell you everything you need to know about income inequality and how damaging it is to society – http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html
There is no doubt that change is needed and I think the Occupy Wall St movement is great.
However, the protest on Dame st is pretty shambolic. The people I talked to down there couldn’t string two words together about what is going on. There is a lack of even a basic understanding of nearly all of the key issues. There needs to be some sort of coherent message for it to be taken seriously.
Rightly, or wrongly, I got the impression that a lot of the people there are only there because they have nothing better to do. And let’s face it, people will judge them because of their appearance, which won’t help their cause.
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10/11/11 #
And what’s better? Listening to meaningless, cliche ridden PR speak from some politician or banker with a slick haircut and a shiny suit?
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10/11/11 #
I agree with Conor. I am totally in favour of the Occupy movement and have watched videos from all over the world. Unlike Conor, I’m not put off in the appearance of the participants, but they need to field some people who can speak in joined up English/Polish/Lithuanian/Hindi or whatever. Everybody must have equal rights to speak, I agree, but surely there should be a requirement that the end result be coherent…
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Of course Nick! My point is that meaningless BS is somehow more credible when it comes from the mouth of some well dressed overpaid moran.
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10/11/11 #
If you earn more €38000+, you’re in the top 1%
Enter your salary here: http://globalrichlist.com/
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yeaah, now that I’m one of the top 1%, I’m definitely against the crusty’s!
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I think the 1% they mean to refer to is the dudes at the heads of multinational corporations who take home millions and due to tax loopholes give nothing back..
You can bet your ass if you are earning €38,000 a year, you are paying your tax and not getting half the allowances of someone who has far more spare cash than you..
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I’m going with Bryan Butler’s definition of the top 1%. Crusties stay away from my 40% of the worlds wealth!
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I understand what they mean and I kinda agree with the general concept. I think everyone does. Of course the world would be a better place if wealth was more evenly distributed. And it sucks the fat cats have the power to manipulate the world to suit their evil plans. But that’s as deep as the Occupy movement goes. It’s just fickle idealism. Get real. They should come up with some solid demands, not just depressing facts. As seen here, their main slogan is even ambiguous.
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Entire nations have been founded on idealist notions :)
I take your point though, which was why I was saying above that all the “ism”s failures is their inability to be realistic..
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Whoa! It’s like the ‘Dandelion Market’ allll over again! Rock on Dublin!
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Now that I think about it they got turfed out in the interests of capitalism and the despoliation of the architectural integrity of Stephen’s Green. Things don’t change much in the cut and trust of aggressive capitalism.
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10/11/11 #
Bloody Hippies..
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Glad to see that unthinking fascism is still with us. I hope you will always be able to afford VHI and the Gym, Sinéad. Do you even know what these people in groups around the world are trying to say?
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It looks like they don’t even know what they are saying, never mind us. A good bath is what they need
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@Nick Caffrey I actually don’t have VHI or Gym membership – The medical card is a wonderful thing and I’d much rather spend the cost of a gym membership on something else.
I’m struggling to understand because like in this video above, ‘THEY’ don’t even know what they’re trying to say. It’s not the movement that annoys me, it’s the fact that they are on the streets and taking over public areas such as parks . If it was a halting site that was set up in Eyre Square for example, everyone would be all over it. These guys are just getting away with it.
That’s my clearly ‘uneducated’ opinion.
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10/11/11 #
Wow sinead Oscar Wilde would be jealous of your razor sharp comment
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I know Willy, I’m sure he would. It’s a comment – which is why they placed the comment box here. The ‘camps’ are an absolute eyesore – on Dame Street, Eyre Square in Galway and even in Boston….. so once again – Bloody Hippies.
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I think Oscar Wilde would have preferred the word Crusties. To be honest Oscar wasn’t short of a few bob himself…
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Well…He ended up in the clanger didn’t he? For being true to his cause as I understand!
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langer in the clanger..love it
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10/11/11 #
Surely they could have found someone who could more coherently express what ODS is about than those three speakers! I wouldn’t take them as representative, which to be fair they did stress themselves. About the only thing that gets across in the piece is a general sense of inequality and that something is wrong and they want more people to join them to figure out what exactly that is and what to do about it. ODS has issued a statement though, which is somewhat more specific about what they’re against – http://www.occupydamestreet.org/our-statement – if not what they’re for, which is presumably a more equal and democratic system.
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10/11/11 #
What do we want?
We don’t know
When do we want it?
Not sure, think some other guy might -
10/11/11 #
sick of this simplistic 1% own 40% rubbish. 100 years ago the richest 1% owned 99% of the worlds wealth, you know why? because unless you were born into money you couldnt make money. so times are bad now?
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@Sinead. How are you at philosophy?
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Not as fantastic as you I’m sure!
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10/11/11 #
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Leaderless movement is a very hard thing to organize and has very few precedents – it’s almost a contradiction in terms. Historically, revolts or protests that were led and organized morphed into something similar or even worse than the corrupt or dysfunctional regime they set out to overthrow. Revolutionary movements the world over spawned spawned despots of every hue that rose through the revolutionary ranks by means little better and most times worse than the monarchs or despots they sought to topple.
The #Occupy movement is aware of this and although the movement may seem leaderless and without set goals this is not because of any lack of thought or insight. It is an expression of the realization that the danger in its very being lies within itself.-
Have you seen this, John. Prescient, definitely:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/all-watched-over-by-machines-of-loving-grace/
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Coincidentally Niall Journal.ie had a video up yesterday about ‘murmuration’ an almost perfect example of a leaderless system. Look it up if you have not already done so. The human anthropological significance of these systems have long been abandoned by a ‘glitch’ in our evolutionary ‘development’. Until now!
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10/11/11 #
I just wish that the people who don’t particularly have a lot to add to the debate in the public forum wouldn’t subject themselves to interviews. I remember there were some excellent speakers interviewed in the first couple of weeks of the movement – they had a lot more impact than some of these guys. What is the point of saying we are protesting the fact that 1% of the world own 40% ‘in a global sense’? Honestly. Using that as an aim will alienate people from the movement because realistically, there’s nothing we can do about that.
I’m all for them opening discussions on what went wrong in Ireland and with the system that we now live with. Keep it practical.
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“What is the point of saying we are protesting the fact that 1% of the world own 40% ‘in a global sense’? Honestly. Using that as an aim will alienate people from the movement because realistically, there’s nothing we can do about that.”
Why not? it’s unequal distribution of wealth that causes all the other problems – so unless you tackle that, and its causes, you’ll never achieve social justice. Just because it’s hard doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try! Though of course you need short and medium term goals that are more immediately achievable as well.
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good to see the tide turning against these whackos
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They’re not the whackos, Waffler.
Those who think everything’s ok, or that we can somehow “fix things” and make everything “like it was before” are the real crazies, if you ask me.
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I actually think it’s more the case that the movement is hitting a moment of truth …. it can either mature and gain mass traction, or it will wither.
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10/11/11 #
I’m surprised they’re still there. I wouldn’t have thought neglected cannabis plants would last four weeks.
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11/11/11 #
Keep up the good work.
To all the people calling them hippies, whether they are hippies or not they’re more clued in than you ever will be.
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clued in? have you listened to any of them?
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