Still, it would’ve been something…

Yeah true. My favourite comment on the Youth Defence facebook recently was an American woman asking why they were all more concerned about Ireland instead of America. In fairness to her, 80% of the people Liking & Sharing on there are American and they’re funded by the likes of the Tea Party in America, so you can see how she’d be confused.

Try commenting of Youth Defence’s Facebook wall, with an opposing opinion and you get blocked!!!! All they are good at is spewing venom. Do they really think that the Ireland of today is listening to their venom???? They have this love affair with the fetus, but don’t give a fiddlers about the child once its born!!!

@Mary, that’s exactly it. I heard a great saying in America during the election they recently had when this issue was raised.

‘Republicans will fight tooth & nail for you until you are born, then they couldn’t care less what happens to you’

Cannot comment on the seanie affair ,i was in the masters court in the four courts yesterday and i heard a solicitor who was representing a man from clonmel against revenue say her client had was unaware he had a partner in the form of a director of ANGLO IRISH BANK ,why has the media ignored this story

Oh yeah and the Pro Choice side never broke the rules is it? What about the recent handing out of dangerous information in relation to abortion by certain pro choice groups?

Haha, dangerous information?
Isn’t that what the church said about Galileo too after he wrote his book?

bpdeasy, Suggesting women tell their doctor they’ve miscarried rather than had an abortion is not “dangerous information”. The woman gets the same treatment without risk of a judgmental attitude.

More sneaky misinformation from the anti-choice brigade.

To be fair it’s also not clear if the IFPA counsellors suggested that. It seems to me more like a response to someone asking “do I HAVE to tell my GP”. Leading questions pop up frequently in those transcripts I reckon. YD and their ilk have pulled that kind of thing before. I definitely had two “tests” (two that I’m fairly sure of) when I was welfare officer in the students’ union at college. Was warned before taking the job that it would happen. There used to be dozens of them in the nineties, I’d say they’re kicking off that kind of campaign again.

Well said.

MarkandAnna
Very well said .

Excellent concise post.

The only spewing is coming from the intolerant pro-aborts. Even though I’m female you automatically conclude that I’m anti-woman. Just after hearing the testimony from an individual about a young woman who has left home over 5 years ago due to her parents coercing her to abort when she was a teenager & nobody has heard from her since. Where was the ‘choice’ in that? Poor unfortunate.

Must be true Marion. Your story.

She had no choice at all Marion. And that’s awful. As a pro-choice person I wish she had had one. In your story her parents denied her a choice (and the clinic failed in their duty if care) but for the 4,000 women who leave Ireland each year the government denies them a choice.

So you think someone not having a choice is a bad thing?? Why then are you anti choice? How do you reconcile such contrary thoughts in your head?

Marion, if youth defence are so concerned about babies’ lives why aren’t ye campaigning about anti-circumcision? Babies have died from the barbaric religious ritual. Even New York have passed a law that parents must sign a disclaimer that the ritual can be fatal. I read about two babies recently that died because the guy who sucks the blood from the babies’ cuts transmitted herpes. Why isn’t that a concern for “Youth Defence”? Or is it because it’s a religious ritual it is ignored?

haha.. trout pout. ;-)

I perfer the term Duckface thanks Simon.

Merry Christmas

Putting up a pro-life poster of an ultrasound is preventing people from expressing their pro-abortion views is lunacy. If a harmless picture is so scary & intimidating to a grown adult then that person needs psychiatric help.

It broke Litter Laws Marion, read my response to your post below please

They are going to wipe out bloodlines, I know people that wanted to abort and I know people that did abort,
The ones that did abort were deeply sorry they look like a part of them had died.
The ones that wanted to abort but didn’t are so happy with their kids now.

I know people who wanted to abort, did and are, many years later, still 100% certain they made the right decision.

Actually Marion, the photo of the ultrasound with the Santa hat just made them look plain ridiculous, and if anything, made a total mockery of the whole pro-life movement in Ireland. But you know what is a scare tactic? Insisting that abortion creates suicidal thoughts, depression, breast cancer and a host of other things in women. Not to mention all the disgusting judgements you allow on your pages – one commenter in particular yesterday declared that those who ever decide to have an abortion have no soul and will be held accountable by God. And you insist that’s not a scare tactic? You really should be ashamed of yourselves.

Well Said Penelope Wizzlehurst, those pro-life, ill informed idiots really make me mad, how dare they shove their opinion down everyone’s throat. Fine the hell out of them and give the money to Barnardos or vincent de Paul

It might be lunacy to you Marion but your shower broke the law. Accept it, deal with it and go away.

@marion: and you being an adult with an invisible friend doesn’t mean that it is YOU that needs psychiatric help?

@marion Do you think children should have to see a foetus with a Santa Hat on 4 nights before the big man arrives? Leave kids out of the debate! I resent your comment too about people needing psychiatric help, very ill thought out comment when many people are currently experiencing mental health difficulties, then again clearly Youth Defence and most likely yourself have displayed in abundance that there is no low you won’t stoop to!

They were in the men’s jacks in a pub we were in last night. My partner complained to the staff. They didn’t realise the micro-media company had put them up and were horrified. Took them down immediately and couldn’t apologise enough to us. They are complaining to the advertising company today and won’t host that type of media again. Well worth drawing the pub/club’s attention to them. Most people have no stomach for right-wing American money trying to subvert our democratic process.

Refer to them as anti-choice. It bugs the crap out of them!!!

I have a much better word for them, but thejournal.ie wouldn’t like me using it…

Excellent question.

So in order to be considered human you need to have a funeral? Or a piece of paper with a stamp on it? Are you suggesting that unborn babies are not human or living?

A sperm is alive and biologically ‘human’.

so is a female egg.

Yet neither of them are considered to a ‘person’.

By law a fetus is not a person.

It’s not really an excellent question to be fair. Lots of women do mourn miscarriages as much as they would mourn a born child and many do have funeral type ceremonies. It depends on the woman’s attitude. But much like abortion, it is their choice how they treat a pregnancy.

What’s your definition for human then George? For me it’s when life is viable outside of the womb.

I’m not an expert, and several experts debate when exactly life begins, but it’s soon after conception, not on the day ofo birth. That’s based on nothing and is just convenient for you.

Thanks; I get that not all pro-choicers have the exact same ideas, just as all pro-lifers don’t. I’m interested in what people view a choice here, particularly those who agree with abortion on demand regardless of circumstances

Sorry, wrong thread! Meant for the one below :-)

Well I’m okay with abortion on demand as you call it. Other people who are pro choice may have different positions.

“Pro choicers” are not a hive mind – some people believe in abortion “on demand”, some due to rape and incest, some for fatal foetal abnormalities – but the current legislation that Youth Defence are opposing would only apply to women with a substantial and immediate threat to their life. So you can see why pro “life” sounds a bit ironic in the circumstances.

You think the ULA et al can afford €150 a pop in litter fines for the number of posters they put up? They’ve definitely applied for permission and they follow the rules.

Why?

How do you figure?

Aslo – as an american, how do you know who the heroes of Ireland are?

Sensible? Behaving in such a manner as to have a restraining order imposed on your members?
Harassing staff? Forcibly occupying a reproductive health clinic? Harrassing women seeking medical care?

Please provide us with your definition of sensible.

Ter’oll.

A twitter account thats only a few days old.

You should not be checking people’s accounts to see how old they are a term for that stalking

Actually it’s checking someone’s credibility and you’re able to make your account private if you wish. Otherwise it’s all in the public domain. You may need to check your definition of stalking as well as your definition of sensible.

Troll…..and all trolls go to hell..

A dumb troll at that! If you make your twitter account freely accessible thats your problem!

Uneducated voice of the retarded-right. Bunch of opressive mouth breathers!

Well clearly my definition of sensible is most certainly not you

That’s a stinging comeback…..

Living saints ?

You’re bang to rights, Ter. Give it up..

Oooo, right in the feelings. Ter, you have vanquished me.

Oh what a world….

etc.

My womb thinks it is news. Merry Christmas.

Your womb thinks it’s news? What does that even mean Anna?

hey George, i am treated as a second class citizen because i am not allowed decide what i do with my womb, i should be allowed abort or not abort according to my own prefrence. those posters offend me as they reiterate the fact that i am not allowed choose for myself what hapoens to my body. those posters are vile. i think it is F**KING NEWS that they have to take them down and so does my womb. Enjoy the festive season, Merry Christmas.

Oh Anna, you poor poor thing not being allowed to abort the baby you created and avoid taking responsibility for your actions. Poor little lamb

Amy. I have a 13 year old daughter that i got pregnant with at 16, i was given the option of abortion by my supportive parents, i chose to keep the baby. Your bitchy comment is extremely offensive and i pity your smallmindedness. If i fell pregnant now by accident by someone i wasnt in love with i would, at this point in my life, 100% would have an abortion. Im not wishing you a Merry Christmas because you are a horse humping, f**ktard.

Of all the comments on here today, Amy thats the most childish and immature and nasty that has been posted. I’d love to call ya a right c— but I won’t stoop as low as that!

So Anna, do you believe a fetus isn’t a living thing?

Thank you for your restraint Connor, no matter what you call me I won’t think Anna is a victim in the way she does.

Amy? I’m not a victim never have been. I didn’t assume your religion. You are wildly reading into things. I don’t like your attitude or aggression. I don’t want to converse with you anymore.

Glad you were able to deal with the rape and subsequent pregnancy and move on with your life Amy.

But cannot you see that some women may not be able to do so? You obviously know of the trauma a rape causes, some just cannot cope with the idea of giving birth to their rapist’s child and seek a termination. Can you not understand why they would do that and why it is somewhat barbaric to advocate forcing a woman to carry it to term?

Marion the posters broke Litter Laws that we all have to abide by. The law is that you are not allowed advertise an event or meeting over 7 days in advance of the scheduled date and is a sensible one that combats our lamp posts being filled with posters advertising whatever various groups want to promote.

What exactly is your problem with the Council upholding their rules?

The socialists have pro-abortion posters up all of the time in Dublin, I don’t be whining about them or reporting them to the Co. Council. I’ve too much to be concerned about rather than looking to fine org.s

it’s not harmless! Seeing those posters made me very unwell! To think that there are enough nutjobs so fanatical about this straightforward and clear cut issue is simply sickening.

And you guys LOVE the church! Honestly I would say that you were almost “in bed with them”, only most of ye would be well over their age requirement for that!

Face it, you’re on the side that has the Catholic church on it. The single moast foul and disgusting organisation this country has ever known when it comes to children. And you are wrong.

Mario the posters can go up again so long as they are posted within 7 days of the event and removed within 7 days after.

If you ever see Socialist posters up around town breaking those laws please do report them. But as it is you’re complaining about the Council upholding a very sensible litter law

Firstly I’m only in my thirties & Youth Defence consists of YOUNG PEOPLE. So the pro-life poster caused you harm, just wondering if it jumped out & bit you? Did you have to receive an injection from a doctor?

But now I’ve explained the litter laws to you Marion you see why they were taken down?

I’m not a snitch Niall. That is the Co. Council’s job.

“I’m not a snitch”

Are you 11 years old?

Are you sure you are in your 30s? You don’t come across like that!

Don’t listen to them Marion. Sure you’re gas craic. Giving all of us here in work a good laugh.
Keep sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong. Keep them women down. Keep forcing your beliefs onto others. Keep up the crazy.

I don’t agree with Marion, however she has a right to express her opinion, and should respect the right of others to express theirs.
We can’t criticise Youth Defence and others for not allowing proper debate and then tell their supporters not to stick their noses in where it doesn’t belong.

Who are you calling ‘pro-aborts’ exactly? What a disgusting U.S originated term, how can you use that term and say you’re not anti-women? For me, I have a child who I chose to keep-that was MY choice and the right choice for me – I know I wouldn’t and COULDN’T have made that same choice if I’d been say 17, or been raped, or if the child was going to be gravely ill all their lives giving them AND myself no quality of life..-And an anti-women, barely-there-there-fetus loving lunatic like yourself would HARRASS girls and women like that and try to make them feel like a piece of shit all because you haven’t a bloody clue.

The YD ‘black and white’ brigade, getting smaller in numbers all the time, thankfully.

See joe, you fell into the old trap of thinking everybody deserves respect. They don’t. Should we also respect the views of hitler?

I think she is, look at how she responds to someone saying they felt hurt by the poster-asking them if they went to the doctor.. All about the venom and zero tolerance, lovely god-fearing women isn’t she all the same?

Harmless poster??!!
What about a woman that recently may have miscarried a baby and has to see that? Or a woman that has had an abortion?
I am a mother and pro choice…I was lucky to be a good situation when I became pregnant, but many others have not been or will be in a good position when pregnant.
If you have never had to deal with a crisis pregnancy than you cannot judge or have the right to dictate how another lives their life

Man on the street – that’s a typical no-brainer comment as is typical from you, no substance, just sarcasm and smart @ss remarks. How could she be anti-woman if she is a woman you imbecile.

Hi George,

Ever heard of Queen Victoria? Some of the anti-woman laws she passed would make you faint.

What is this obsession with linking pro-choicers with socialism? I am 100% pro-choice and I am an economic centrist.

The anti-choice side seems to be under the impression that all pro-choicers are Stalinist oppressors of the economic left, when in fact we come from all political and economic persuasions.

The comparison with the former USSR is just sill and shows that history is anther subject Marion really needs to brush up on. The side in this debate which tries to control peoples’ actions is that side which has more in common with Stalin’s Russia. That side is certainly not the pro-choice one.

Yeah, keep wondering where that’s coming from as well. My general feeling on that subject is that anyone who use’s the term right or left as some kind of insult in a debate is probably a dogmatic follower of the other leaning. Or in other words an idiot.

Didn’t your God slaughter the first born in Egypt in the Old Testament?

Which god is that? Thor?

The looney left claim they are liberal, tolerant & are always seeking for an inclusive society but in reality their definition of inclusiveness only applies if you agree with their agenda.

But he did slaughter the first born in Egypt though right Marion?

That is actually correct?

“Pope John Paul 11″

Didn’t realise there was 9 others that I missed.

P.

Funny your pope who supports the death sentence for gay men in Uganda, do they not have the right to life?

Your god is for you and if your god thinks you should impose your beliefs on others, then he is not a very loving one!

i exist and MY wishes must be respected. Merry Christmas, xo

John, using a fictional being as a reason to intimidate women is disgusting, you should be ashamed of yourself…..

Luckily for youth defence, god is not real, cause if he was, all them crazies would be on a highway to hell.

You missed them alright, they were right craic, best popes ever because they didnt exist.

As well as the murder of the first borns in Egypt, there’s also the mass murder by drowning of Pharoah, his chariots and his horsemen – an atrocity remembered and celebrated every Easter Saturday, no less, by the Catholic Church. There was also the genocide of everyone on the planet who wasn’t in Noah’s immediate family… easily a couple of billion, eh?

All these heinous, deplorable acts perpetrated by God are detailed throughout the bible (making it trufax!) so it would be interesting to know why on the one hand you worship a deity who regularly commits mass murder on a whim, but on the other condemn a woman who (in your eyes) would do the same by having an abortion?

Appalling double standards there, John!

Abortion is far from being a woman’s right, is it John? Wow, that goes to show you’re a misogynist pig as well as a moronic and stupid one. Merry Christmas :)

Why the assumption that everyone who’s pro choice is a lefty Marion? And why would that even be a factor? Is the anti choice position so weak that you need to be so randomly scattergun in what you post?

There Marion goes again with ridiculous outbursts about the “loony left”. Who the hell are they? What do you mean by left here Marion? Do you mean the economic left? The Marxist belief that the State should have a predominant role in the economy? If that’s the case you should know that not not all pro-choicers (myself included) are on the economic left.

Or perhaps you mean the social left, that line of thinking which argues that people should have control over their own actions, to marry as the see fit, to choose to have children or not etc. You know, the side which allows people more freedom. Now what exactly is loony about that may I ask?

With who? God? Is this a reply to the slaughtering the first born thing?

You won’t get a proper response Niall. The crazies ignore the parts of the bible that doesn’t back up their hate.

Here are some biblical references to abortion and infanticide Marion http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/abortion.html