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This post was originally published on the 18 August 2012 but republished here as the CAO points for 2013 are being revealed tomorrow.
TOMORROW MARKS a big day in the lives of thousands of young people in Ireland, as the first round of college placement offers are distributed by the Central Applications Office.
The offers will dictate, for many, what they will study for the next few years – as well as where they might live, and how much college might cost them – or whether they may have to go back to school for another year to secure the grades they need.
For most, though, it brings an end to the Leaving Cert experience – as students take their grades and book their places in the courses that they hope will lead them into the working world.
While the CAO points system has become a rite of passage for many Irish people, it’s also something which can mystify the other people in their lives, who might never have gone through a similar system themselves.
So, for those baffled by the system through which their children, grandchildren, siblings, nieces, nephews and friends are going, here’s our guide to how the whole thing works.
Let’s start at the beginning: there would be no ‘points’ without a Leaving Cert in the first place. CAO Points are calculated based directly on a student’s grades in their Leaving.
Most Leaving Cert subjects are taken at two levels – either Higher Level (‘honours’) or Ordinary Level (‘pass’). (A couple of subjects are also offered at Foundation Level, but they do not count for the purposes of CAO points.)
While every exam in the Leaving Cert does ultimately result in a percentage grade, this isn’t what students are given on results day. Instead, they’re given a letter grade which corresponds to the percentage score that they got.
Those grades are outlined on this table:
These grades then correspond directly with the points that you get for each grade. For each grade, a fixed number of points are awarded. For ordinary level, these are allocated based on this table:
For higher level subjects, the points are exactly the same - except you add 40. (This is the reward that a student gets for opting to sit a tougher exam.) So, for an honours subject, a D3 gets you 45 points while an A1 will get you 100.
From last year, colleges are also offering bonus points for honours Maths.
The idea behind this is reasonably simple: the CAO only considers your best six subjects for points purposes, while many students actually take seven subjects - meaning they'll be doing one subject which they know will not count for the purposes of getting into college.
Knowing this, many students striving for top grades - and who knew Maths wasn't their strong point - simply opted for the ordinary level paper in order to concentrate their efforts elsewhere. This, in turn, has led to fears about the mathematical capabilities of Irish school-leavers.
In order to try and redress this, from 2012 the system offers 25 extra points for those who keep up their Higher Level Maths - giving them an advantage over other students who are happy to concentrate on other subjects.
So, going back to the second table above, when you're dealing with Higher Level Maths you can first add 40 points because it's a Higher Level grade, and then add a further 25 points because it's Maths. So a D3 in honours Maths now gets you 70 points; an A1 gets you 125.
This means that previously, where the maximum points score a student could get was 600, it's now 625.
What many people misunderstand about the points attached to certain courses is that they are not a measure of the difficulty of the course. Although many of the high-points courses do tend to be among the toughest, the two aren't directly linked. This is why students are always told to fill out their CAO forms by ranking courses based on genuine preference and not based on their actual difficulty.
It might help to think of CAO points as a kind of special currency, created only for use in the college applications process.
Put it this way: if you get a B2 in an honours subject, you 'earn' 80 points. Your six best subjects might altogether 'earn' you 400 points. You then use this money in an auction to buy your place on a course.
That, in essence, is what the CAO does: it runs an auction. This is best explained with an example.
Let's pretend there's a college called 'TheScore.ie Institute of Sportology', which runs a course called 'Premier League Liveblogging'. Let's pretend there are 50 places in this course.
Now, let's say that only 40 CAO applicants put this course at the top of their list of preferences. In that case, there are more places than applicants - and everyone gets in. (On CAO lists this is marked as 'AQA' - All Qualifiers Accepted.)
But if there are 100 applicants with Premier League Liveblogging as their first choice, obviously we have a problem - because the course can only take half of them.
So how does it sort them out? By ranking applicants based on their points. This is the auction - the 50 applicants with the best CAO scores are the ones who will be offered a place.
The other 50 will instead have to make do with a lower preference on their form - they'll be offered whichever course closest to the top of their list, which they have also fulfilled the other entry criteria for (some courses, like those in Science, will demand certain Leaving Cert grades in the appropriate subjects).
The whole point of this explanation is to underline that the points needed for the course aren't simply based on how tough the course is - it's merely based on the results of the people who want to get in.
The points value that you'll see listed beside the name of a course on the newspapers, or online, is merely the point beyond which applicants are going to be successful or not - it's the 'minimum price' determined by the CAO auction.
The first round of CAO offers - revealing the results of the first round of auctions - will be released on Monday. Further rounds will be offered over the next few weeks as extra places become available - if, for example, some people don't take up their offers or colleges increase their capacity.
To all those awaiting their offers, and to those standing by their sides: good luck.
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the irish taxpayer will still be picking the tab. not for profit lark is a laugh. also anybody in DP should be sorted in 6 months otherwise you are out ,surely with all the technology we got we should have answers with facial recognition and all. it’s costing us a fortune.
@brendan o connell: do we have the technological capability to do so? Yes. Do we have the infrastructure setup to do so? No. And you should be thankful of that. I rather enjoy not living in China with a social score thanks. Facial recognition is amazing and scary and should not be used outside academic purposes.
Also, the Irish tax payer picks up the tab anyway. The idea would be to hopefully stop Leo’s mates getting an extra few billion of our money funneled into their pockets. However, they’re all just a shower of gangsters so they’ll find a way to do it anyway.
@brendan o connell: we could start with people who make ridiculous statements on the journal identifying their own faces.
@JG: typical snowflake.
@JG: Start by putting up your own.
Direct Provision is alot better than what some people have. Not being bad but it’s true.
@Mary Nugent: So you don’t think we should implement basic human right living standards just because what’s currently there is marginally better than some of the worst situations around the world?
@Mary Nugent: and u know this from your own experience of living in the system of course!
@ℂ: I think we should care for our homeless before, if any money left in the pot, then go ahead and help the refugees! I’m not sorry that I care for our own people more!
@Scorcher Bois Gris: I know people in one near me.
@Padraig O’Shea: you get that we are housing them already right now for the profit of private companies for years. This replaces it with a cheaper short term government run system in specialist government facilities not houses taken out of the market. I can’t see how you would not be in favor of this change.
@James Carew: I am all for helping genuine refugees.. majority here are economic migrants… and your naive to think otherwise
Considering they can’t manage to house people once they’ve been approved for asylum, I don’t see how they will manage to house people within three months without moving other people down housing lists, the department of housing said this clearly months ago.
Everyone agrees that the length of time is what makes this system terrible, the fact that this report doesn’t in anyway try to address that rather just throws their hands up and takes it as a fait accompli means its useless. There needs to be fairness in the process for Irish people and genuine asylum seekers.
So far the government has not stated if they intend to be a part of the pact on migration the European Commission has proposed, this needs to be answered and an actual debate needs to be had on these issues.
Something like an expedited judicial review procedure for people subject to deportation orders would seem to help the process speed up coupled with faster preliminary decisions, people would not languish in this system for years at the taxpayers expense.
@Margaret: genuine is the word here. It just takes too long to find the genuine asylum cases that they give it to everyone because of the protracted process. If the person has passed through another country then the process should have geen completed there not allowing them onward travel as in the dublin treaty. Once cleared they can migrate to where ever they wish and not over whelm countries as has happened in greece and italy
Does anyone in DP ever get processed and NOT admitted? As in….sent home?
@Padraig O’Shea: not distinguishing between refugees and economic migrants says it all about your outlook on life and the lives of others. Have a watch of the film Adú on Netflix. It’ll soon soften your cough.
Not for profit = CEO on big money.
If they just accelerated the processing of asylum seekers then Direct provision would work. The issue is how long they’re in these centres waiting for processing, We’re tackling the wrong thing here completely
@Alan Curley: Appeal after appeal after appeal in cases in their own names then children’s names,How many are still in DP after numerous rejections to remain in Ireland.
@James Carew:
1.3 million refugees arrived in Germany in 2015-16. Of these 500k came from Syria. The others Arabs, Iranians, Kurds, Afgans, Arabic and non Arabic speaking Africans.
The spectacle of columns of men marching through the Balkans impacted on the Brexit vote.
No problem looking after the vulnerable,but as a small island, with limited land & infrastructure, how can we keep bringing in millions of people into the country?
@Sense of Doubt: all you gotta do is fly into any airport in EU land and jump over to Dublin then. Do young Irish people realise that under the current neo liberal open borders arrangement underwritten by the EU, they will never own a home of their own?
@Edmund Murphy: a house.. is a house
Is this the government trying to bring new citizens in to Ireland hoping they will vote for them in the next election. Because FFG know that the citizens that are here now have had enough of them.
@Odd Socks: it’s a standard labour party mo… Blair did it in the UK. Hence the Irish Labour Party’s ridiculous campaign ‘born here belong here’. No wonder they’re on the brink of extinction.
What does it means? That in less of 4 months there will be a firm decision of granted the refugee status or deportation? Is that even possible with the legal timeframes?
Why non-EU homeless are treated more favourably when seeking refuge in this land than the EU homeless?
The housing crisis started about 10 years ago. The governments have only shown inability to stop the biggest humanitarian disaster in Ireland since the great pandemic …. because of a biased approach and the toxic culture inherentes from the Lords at the Land Wars …. massive evictions of tenants and farmers labour
People can’t afford to rent a home with their full time wages anymore.
People has not other option than expend almost their full wages from full time work in the rent so they don’t become homeless and then lose their jobs. How can a person hold a remote working job without a home?
and then the only thing people see is …. cycling tracks popping up everywhere …. and using the money of the taxpayers to give homes to non EU homeless at the rent rate of 16% of the person income
What the f-word is this?
Anyone seeking refuge in Ireland has the status of EU refugee seeker. They can be transferred to any country with capacity. Nordic countries offers are consistently turned down. Meaning these people are chosen to live in a overcrowded facility in Ireland, France, Italy or Spain …. rather than their own home in any Nordic countries
Very sad because they turned down a great assistance in the countries that have capacities
so maybe we should all go and get a particular passport and fly into dublin and claim asylum and reap the generosity of this wonderful new scheme – we’d be a lot better off would we not?
Sounds like a good and humane replacement for direct provision. We should treat genuine refugees with kindness and compassion.
@Paul Whitehead : Fully agree if you could find any.
@Scorcher Bois Gris: because there are 5 million of us and 500 million of ‘them’
If we genuinely want to help refugees we need to prioritize genuine cases and we are clearly not doing this
Direct provision is a stain on this country. Kids growing up in them year after year with no hope of a future either in Ireland or back in their country of origin.The same lazy argument from trolls on here – setting up refugees against Ireland’s homeless.
@Lucy Legacy: Do you think the department of housing are trolls? They’re the ones that came out and said this is untenable will drive up rents and lead to legal challenges because of the impact it will have on homeless people and people on housing lists https://www.businesspost.ie/ireland/new-plan-to-end-direct-provision-is-unrealistic-and-unworkable-officials-warn-209cb32e
@Lucy Legacy: Well said Lucy, I’m shocked at the comments. Sad bunch of people, no understanding or compassion
@Lucy Legacy: They are economic migrants. Plain and simple. Get real. Most are from.continental Africia. If they’re in ‘danger’ in their own country why not seek ‘refuge’ in a neighbouring country, there are dozens of them. No, cross continental Europe to soft touch Ireland and spin a yarn. We don’t need any more Taxi drivers
@Lucy Legacy: there are many definitions of homeless ,no body mentioned the people sleeping on streets that won’t go in.there are the people on council lists for years in flats or crap houses.there are the working young people paying up to 1300 a month rent and trying to save for a mortgage,so yes there is a big problem to sort out .EU dictation is not needed.we do not have the amount of houses hospitals schools or prisons when there is yes bring in as many as want..
@David J Warren: we would have compassion of the majority of them were actual refugees and not economic migrants. Or maybe you think its fine for people to come here illegally from safe countries just for the welfare.
What a complete load of BS this is
@John Lynch: serves you right for putting all your pennies in the Trocaire Box
@Padraig O’Shea: That is never going to happen. Give over with your agenda Padraig. This is a pr exercise to keep the European elite on side. A lot of people will love your comment but its never ever going to happen.
@Edmund Murphy: you are really that innocent that you think a government run system will be cheaper. when did that ever happen
Surely the department of justice should be running these centres as it is or is it too much to ask of the responsible agency. The reality will be unchanged because of the years it will takes for current contracts to expire and no future provision of dwellings implemented until this happens by which time our economy will not be in a position to build homes for anyone citizens or asylum seekers
Where are there the high voted comments from this morning, obviously with the Journal who can have your say as long as it’s on the same hymn sheet as the government, State censorship.
@Koochulan: Looks better if they are not there. Afraid of the fact that most people see through the fact that most of these people are not genuine refugees. It’s an echo chamber, like Twitter and the likes where you simply block opinions that don’t suit your narrative.
@Padraig O’Shea: Would you like one of the mobile homes in Mosney when the refugees are moved out?
@Padraig O’Shea: I dont wish to be a spoiler, but all of the Irish folk have a vote, be they parents, or millenials wishing to form their own families in their own homes, but they either do not vote, or they do not vote for policies to get affordable homes built.
It is very simple you get a guaranteed chance to do this at least every 5 years, so make sure you do.
Whinging on the Journal about proper plans to accomodate refugee immigrants, whether economic or political, will not solve the overall housing crisis.
It is our political & economic crisis, for us to deal with.
All of us.
It’s mad to think as many as 1 millions Irish are currently living abroad yet wmhalf of you moan about 7500 migrants in DP at home, I’m living in Australia the last year, I earn more money than I did at home. so I must be a dreaded economic migrant…
@Cormac Ó Dubhghaill: were you offered housing and board by the Australian government? Doubt it.
@Cormac Ó Dubhghaill: Are tou there illegally? And if you did enter Australia Illlegally what will happen if the authorities catch you?
@Cormac Ó Dubhghaill: no love, I’m sure you went there legally with a visa? And you work and don’t live in a state funded house? Nobody has an issue with people coming here legally and seeking work.
@Cormac Ó Dubhghaill: I think you must be in Australia for a while mate. Thinks are changing here at an alarming rate. Two years ago I would have agreed with you.
@Cormac Ó Dubhghaill: you don’t see the difference? I’ll make it easy, we’re going to assume you entered with a visa and are working hard.
Anyone jumping on the economic refuge bandwagon needs to take a closer look to home. The culchies have been coming to Dublin for years.
@TheKloppKop: the culchies built Dublin!
What a complete load of BS this is
The danger in this approach is that it will create the perception that asylum seekers will be housed before the Irish homeless. Now is the time to unveil a major policy initiative on general homelessness, including declaration of a housing emergency.
@Dick Barrett: until we tax land hoarding and derelict houses properly the housing crisis will never be resolved
@Edmund Murphy: cheaper and government. Two words that dont go together
@John Lynch: Germany is starting to lean to the far right again ,,,yikes all is kept quiet on media
And if an Irish person go’s into the housing office. They are told OK ur on the list. Now go and sleep on the streets. And if you don’t die from the cold or ill health in the next 6 years come back into us. And we will transfair you over too one of our other departments and they will see if they can fix you up with a tent
The replies to this article are unbelievable. The work of good journalists undone by hosting the type of comment which, in another jurisdiction, could be commented on directly rather than obliquely referencing the KKK as an organisation that perhaps those that post in the comments section of the Journal have time for. Although that can’t be proven and is an opinion held in good faith rather than a statement of fact. The Journal is throwing away its reputation by allowing this bile to be associated with it. Who reads these articles to you ? More importantly, who writes the replies for you ? There’s very little chance that either of those actions are within the compass of those that post such hateful words.
@Emmett Keane:
Read the room! Are you 1 of those that gives out their bank details to the “Nigerian princes”…… This is madness what the Greens want…..the ONLY good think is that they will be punished at the next G.E. Also I dont remember them saying this when knocking at doors looking for my vote!
@Emmett Keane: What replies arw you talking about? People not agreeing with your opinion. People simply stating the truth about these economic migrants and how we cant house them amd don’t want them here?
I can see that happening not
A govt white paper is the equivalent of a minister brain storming on a napkin, its an idea that they’d like to do, 4 reports and a explorutory committee later its shelved as isn’t feasible, it’s like saying we want to have an Irish person on the moon by 2030, we’d like to but will never happen, They might change the name to something like the family assimilation centre that will about it, its the govt and the greens looking for some positive headlines to get back on ‘message’ as Malcolm Tucker would say.
All very laudable and will probably happen but the problems will come shortly after opening because they won’t be built to the scale required in 2 years time i e there will not be enough spaces and also civil servants will not be able to service the needs in time so we will be back to the way things are now
@Padraig O’Shea: Because FFG want Irish people to pay their landlord buddies obscene amounts of cash. That’s all it is landlord lobbying.
@Padraig O’Shea: we shouldn’t need accommodation for most of them as they should be sent back to the EU country they first landed in if they are economic migrants as most are. Cue all the bleeding hearts who will say they deserve sanctuary but no thought for our own homeless?
@aaron: Ya and Never claimed Asuylum and worked hard to move out of the gutter whats your point.
@Padraig O’Shea: how did I know that d first comment I’d read here would be “what about our own?” It’d be comical if it wasn’t so sad and revealing….yes we have a housing crisis and homelessness but why is it always an “us” versus “them” scenario? Surely, this is a good thing!
@Padraig O’Shea:
The people living in direct provision are neither refugees or economic migrants. They are asylum seekers.
We are a great country. Well done the greens.
@Padraig O’Shea: yes, not only a house, but at a far cheaper rate than any renter struggling to meet his rent.
Potato Head article 23000+ views in 6 hours.
Twitter article 6000+ views in 6 hours.
Pádraig maybe you should actually read the article
If there was an annual figure, published and debated, of the number of people we receive into the country, it would take much of the heat out of the issue.
Ireland could use its time on the UNSC to oppose military adventures by the EU bomb exporters and prevent further waves of refugees. It may be karma but we are saddled with the countries that caused the problem and, besides that, we should do our best from basic human decency to help. We can’t have open borders and still have a country but we can make sure that those we receive integrate fully.
As of 12.25 posts =115 actual 53 .
@HoneyGold: the Irish homeless would be delighted to have those, in fact anything.
@Gerard Heery: I don’t think that you follow German media then… it’s actually quite a topic since years. See debates around NPD or the founding of the AFD or the recent backlash in relation to the WDR
Sad to see all the racist comments on this article, a quick look at the social media timelines of these commenters shows you what they really think.
@Rebecca BarrettNp: it’s not racist to say you don’t want economic migrants
@Rebecca BarrettNp: I didn’t see any racist comments on this thread.
@Valthebear: they’ve been removed.
@Edmund Murphy: specialist government facilities bought from their buddies like the hotel in Mayo? Any money spent or resources used will detract from the housing supply
@Padraig O’Shea: could you provide us with your research documentation to back up your statement?…
@Seamus Donnelly: So you’re saying they should break the law and work without a permit is it? What a melt.
@Padraig O’Shea: “Economic migrants” you mean the hundreds of thousands of Irish who have emigrated for a better standard of living?
About time this started happening
@Seamus Donnelly: Are you advocating to make it easier to get working permits in Ireland?
@Padraig O’Shea: He knows… He knows…..
have your say