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PA Archive/Press Association Images

A Dart every 10 mins? Hold on just a second there, say drivers

The NBRU says the plan needs some major consultation first.

Updated 9.15 pm

TRAIN DRIVERS ARE questioning whether the plan to have Darts running every ten minutes is achievable, despite the minster yesterday already welcoming the idea.

Yesterday, Irish Rail outlined a number of proposed changes to their services nationwide.

One such change was a proposal to put more Darts on every day to ensure there’d be a service at least every 10 minutes on weekdays.

Dart services would also start earlier under the proposals which Irish Rail wants to introduce by “early 2016″.

Minister for Transport Paschal Donohoe TD made direct reference to Dart times, saying the plan would be “great news for customers as it should mean less congestion on carriages at peak times”.

But speaking today in response to the plans, the National Bus and Rail Union says that their members would have to decide if they could cope with the extra workload.

The union’s general secretary Dermot O’Leary says that drivers and Irish Rail have been told by the Labour Court to enter into negotiations about productivity.

Making Darts run every 10 minutes as opposed to 15 minutes would “clearly” be a productivity issue, he argued.

“Clearly from our point of view the proposed 10 minute Dart service is productivity based, it will be for our train driver members in the Dart to decide if they will be in a position to cooperate with any proposed changes,” O’Leary said this evening.

Irish Rail has disagreed with this assessment, however, saying that plans for a 10 minute Dart frequency are “completely separate from the productivity issues under review”.

“As our unions are fully aware, we have been training new drivers in anticipation of the need to grow our services,” the semi-state said in a statement. “This means we will be able to deliver the expanded Dart service needed by our customers within existing arrangements.”

The National Transport Authority is currently seeking feedback from all parties as well as members of the public on the new plans.

Read: Irish Rail are making some big changes to the Dart and want to hear from you >

Read: People had very mixed feelings about the rail strike being called off >

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108 Comments
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    Mute Gggordon
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    Nov 25th 2015, 6:40 PM

    Productivity or more money for drivers issue? How can every single change in an organisation be greeted with a demand for more money by unions. The bearded ones really should join the rest of us in 2015 and leave 1915 behind

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    Mute AlanH -AFC
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    Nov 25th 2015, 6:53 PM

    Pile extra workload onto a driver and then wait for the accidents. More drivers is what’s needed.

    56
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    Mute Éamonn Mac Eochaidh
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    Nov 25th 2015, 6:53 PM

    They can hardly drive two trains at the same time, or drive own train faster – since the speed is controlled by the signalling.

    Do the pilots threaten to strike when Ryanair launches a new route? No.

    So how is this a productivity issue?

    339
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    Mute Gggordon
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    Nov 25th 2015, 6:57 PM

    Typical Union style comment … Drivers will do the same amount of work … On train at a time !! It’s just a predictable union money grab .. These union bosses need to justify their fat cat salaries so jump on any opportunity to look like they care about their members

    234
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    Mute David Conroy
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:02 PM

    Extra workload ? It means increasing staff numbers and extra trains and not about the guy behind going faster !!

    155
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    Mute David Conroy
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:06 PM

    If I were a driver I would be seriously worried about these idiots representing me. When was the last time we saw a vacancy for Rail Workers ?

    168
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    Mute Gillian Kennedy
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:37 PM

    Hear hear. It’s hardly like they’re being asked to drive more than one train at a time!

    104
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    Mute Get Lost Eircodes
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:59 PM

    They wanted more money about 10 years ago for driving longer trains… thing is the platforms had been lengthened so all they had to do was stop the trains in the same bloody place as normal!

    146
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    Mute Gary Stewart
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:22 PM

    Press go to move, apply break to stop. Without the requirement to actually steer. Yeah extra work load is a real worry here.

    81
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    Mute Gary Stewart
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:23 PM

    *brake

    14
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    Mute David Conroy
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:30 PM

    @Gary. Also to thank God for your relations getting you your cushy number in the first place !

    25
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    Mute Kaz Kork
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:35 PM

    Gary does this apply when single line working or a movement in a opposite direction and pilot working to name a few?

    5
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    Mute Martin Byrne
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:57 PM

    Workload? They’ve no idea what work is.
    They smell money – unions have been holding back progress for decades

    41
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    Mute Carl Nolan
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    Nov 30th 2015, 11:15 AM

    Irish public transport is paralysed by these entitled staff members who have no interest in improving the service

    1
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    Mute KevJ
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    Nov 25th 2015, 6:40 PM

    Surprise, Surprise.

    392
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    Mute LeeKelly
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:47 PM

    The Bigger surprise would be if it happened. There’s an election on the way ya know.

    128
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    Mute Edmond Blackadder
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:06 PM

    There is a finite about of trains that can cross Dublin City between Connolly and Pearse stations and darts every 10 mins can’t happen without loosing main line intercity trains etc ..so this can never happen no matter hw much the payment is.

    53
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    Mute Paul Dunne
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:12 PM

    edmond work was done to re signal connolly to allow for ore trains

    65
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    Mute Crocodylus Pontifex
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:53 PM

    Ore trains in the city centre? Madness

    66
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    Mute Edmond Blackadder
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    Nov 25th 2015, 10:04 PM

    Nothing to do with signals ..pure timing logistics.

    14
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    Mute Shane Hickey
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    Nov 25th 2015, 10:22 PM

    Eh, it can be done. They can do it in every other European city. Saying it can’t be done is lazy union speak to get pay rises. Have you seen how many trains come and go from kings cross, cannon street,, Waterloo, Paddington etc every day?

    125
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    Mute Rob Hall
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    Nov 25th 2015, 10:45 PM

    Just fire them and get people who want to work, hardly difficult work to replace

    127
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    Mute Martin Hayes
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    Nov 25th 2015, 10:59 PM

    That’s a little bit simplistic Shane, London stations have multiple tracks compared to Connolly.

    22
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    Mute lilolil
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    Nov 25th 2015, 11:53 PM

    And they’re underground too!!

    6
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    Mute Paul Dunne
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    Nov 26th 2015, 12:22 AM

    it is the signaling was changed to allow more trains per hour.

    15
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    Mute Anita OGalligan
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    Nov 26th 2015, 4:02 AM

    A Dart every 10 minutes is long overdue. We are so backward in our public transport system.
    Now the Unions want to veto it. I don’t drive a car, I love train travel, it’s so convenient, The
    lLUAS every 5 minutes ( I understand that it’s privatised) Maybe we should privatise the railways.
    No mention has been made of a improved rail service from Wicklow. I presume it will remain the
    Same pathetic service of 5 trains per day, not to mention the last train from Connolly just after 18.30.
    No chance of concerts or theatres or evenings out unless one can take the bus home which takes
    About 1 and a half hours or one has to bring the car into Dublin.

    41
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    Mute Paul Tao
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    Nov 26th 2015, 11:58 AM

    You know what doesn’t join a union and strike over every positive change? Automated driverless trains. They also react faster than humans and are never delayed by needing to take a crap or finish a sandwich.. For an example of how fantastically they can work, google “Skytrain Vancouver”. We could cut down significantly on the bloated train driver salaries. If the Dart was privatised, it would also run a lot better and more efficiently.. See how much better the Luas is run? How the private sector innovates and finds efficiencies? The public sector doesn’t get these queues because at the end of the day it is not run for profit.

    14
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    Mute Glenn Polley
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    Nov 25th 2015, 6:41 PM

    So the union is kicking up about making our transport system even more effective. Great. Between that and the strikes they seem to be really popular lately…

    296
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    Mute John S
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:09 PM

    Lets hire some drivers who don’t want to join a union and pay them 10% more. See how that goes down

    195
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    Mute Conor Heffernan
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:32 PM

    Better still, copy what was done for the DLR in London and use fully automated trains that are driverless. No driver = no strike = no problem.

    173
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    Mute Brendan Hughes
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:29 PM

    Great idea on paper John S. However these type of places have rules in place that say you must join a union or the rest of the workers won’t work with you. What we need are people with brass balls to take them on. Take the job and then take the union to court over discrimination. Get a judgement againest them to set precedent and watch the whole tangled web collapse. When that happens companies will be free to hire whomever they wish.

    62
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    Mute Fred
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:55 PM

    who runs CIE? Not Unions We hope!

    24
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    Mute Brian Whelan
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    Nov 25th 2015, 10:04 PM

    Yep, and like the IFA, those at the top of unions have similar extravagant salaries

    44
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    Mute Shane Hickey
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    Nov 25th 2015, 10:23 PM

    Actually there was a dlr strike a couple of weeks ago

    5
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    Mute David W.Fleming
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    Nov 26th 2015, 8:42 AM

    The DLR was on strike 2 weeks ago!

    2
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    Mute Jonathan Baum
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    Nov 25th 2015, 6:42 PM

    Bunch of jokers. Every other city has commuter trains which run every 3 or 4 minutes. God forbid, they might actually have to do an actual day’s work.

    225
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    Mute AlanH -AFC
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    Nov 25th 2015, 6:53 PM

    They do a 40 hr standard week like the rest of us .

    22
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    Mute Paul O'Flynn
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:42 PM

    A 40 hour week, seriously? That part time , do you really only do 40 hours a week? Where do you work? Are there any vacancies going?

    74
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    Mute Gary Stewart
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:32 PM

    Most people do and guess what in the true private sector we have to be efficient and do duties outside our exact job description and if not happy with it there’s a door we can leave through.

    38
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    Mute Brendan Hughes
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:32 PM

    Here here paul o’flynn. Only wednesday and i’ve already done my40hrs starting monday And today is not done yet.

    26
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    Mute Martin Byrne
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    Nov 25th 2015, 10:00 PM

    40 hours! That’s like a holiday.

    14
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    Mute Michael Donnelly
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    Nov 25th 2015, 10:27 PM

    Emmm, working more than 40 hours a weeks for your employer without substantial extra pay is nothing to be proud of, folks.

    53
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    Mute Maria Hickey-Fagan
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    Nov 26th 2015, 12:30 AM

    More fool you!

    7
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    Mute Alan Cuffe
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:00 PM

    Put extra carriages on at peak times for a start

    148
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    Mute Mr T
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:27 PM

    Ah yeah hitch up a few carriages at rush hour like yer sticking a car trailer on your fiesta!!! Though I reckon your on a bike with a detached from reality comment like that!!!
    I love when langballs with no concept of engineering limitations make off the cuff comments like that.

    As for the crux of the issue this is just another electioneering effort by the most hateful member of the current cabinet.

    12
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    Mute Neal Ireland Hello
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:45 PM

    It’s that exactly what they spent a tonne of money extending all the platforms and buying extra cars for, about ten years ago? If there’s some engineering problem perhaps it should have been mentioned before they did all that!

    67
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    Mute Malachi Shanks
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:49 PM

    Gobshi…….

    3
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    Mute Maria Hickey-Fagan
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    Nov 26th 2015, 12:29 AM

    Mr T that backfired on you, didn’t it? I’m delighted!

    16
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    Mute Richard
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    Nov 25th 2015, 6:42 PM

    Can we not just let computers do the driving like most of the rest of the world. It’d save money, result in a better service and get rid of this nonsense.

    108
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    Mute arnie
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:16 PM

    Could you name all these places in .most of the rest of the world that run automated trains please ,particularly a system that runs through a city across major roads with level crossings.

    27
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    Mute Padraic Egan
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:24 PM

    The DLR in London? Driverless trains for years.

    61
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    Mute Fergus Fring
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:41 PM

    Yes we can and will. 10-15yrs these will be all automated so we won’t have to worry about these whingers.

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    Mute Tony Stack
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:12 PM

    Dubai Metro

    34
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    Mute John Smith
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:26 PM

    Will these driverless trains have unions?!

    26
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    Mute Paul Dunne
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:21 PM

    how does a computer put a wheelchair on and off a dart dick

    4
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    Mute Gary Stewart
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:28 PM

    I seldom see drivers help people in wheelchairs onto a Dart. I do see other employees who work in stations do it from time to time. I also see drivers stop just past Clontarf station and have a chat from time to time.

    43
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    Mute Bilbo Baggins
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    Nov 26th 2015, 12:06 AM

    Never knew a dart had a dick

    8
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    Mute George Forsyth
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    Nov 26th 2015, 7:07 AM

    Dubai metro is driverless but is has a track that’s inaccessible to the public with no level crossings etc… and it’s also only a few years old.

    2
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    Mute Neal Ireland Hello
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    Nov 26th 2015, 10:14 AM

    @Paul for one thing, computers can manage the booking and availability of ramps and assistance.

    Also, it’s is usually not the drivers but the station staff or (or n the case of intercity and other services, the train conductor) who assist wheelchair users. The dart driver sits in his cabin blowing his horn, closing the doors on people’s necks, and wondering when he gets to go on another strike.

    7
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    Mute Paul
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    Nov 25th 2015, 6:59 PM

    More union rubbish, A load of new drivers have been hired and trained months ago.

    85
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    Mute proctor
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:12 PM

    That’s rubbish

    4
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    Mute justanothertaxpayer
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    Nov 25th 2015, 6:42 PM

    if it’s a productivity issue then they won’t be needing more train drivers..

    70
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    Mute Laura Byrne®
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    Nov 25th 2015, 6:50 PM

    They should focus on getting the current DART timetable right before they introduce more! The last few months there is constant delays & trains stopping for up to 10 mins between stops.

    70
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    Mute David Linehan
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    Nov 25th 2015, 6:52 PM

    Shock. Overpaid, about time they contributed to a service that’s currently utter sh!te

    68
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    Mute Maria Hickey-Fagan
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    Nov 26th 2015, 12:31 AM

    What are they paid?

    1
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    Mute Marc Power
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:29 PM

    You mean an improvement for customers rather than staff? …..NOOOO…not possible. ….somethings bound to prevent it

    57
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    Mute Sean @114
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:03 PM

    I love the quote from the Labour party, I mean NBRU, spokesperson. Basically, ‘clearly this is a much needed efficiency initiative. However my members will decide whether or not it happens and whether or not we will co-operate’. Is it any wonder the sectors in which unions are entrenched are an absolute shambles. Schools, health, transport. They have to learn that sometimes changes are made for the betterment of the service, and general public in this case, and not to exploit their hard working members.

    47
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    Mute Lisa Jones
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:02 PM

    This is complete yawn to me. I live in a northside area where there is no luas, metro never appeared and there is not even a bus corridor for the first mile or so. Getting to work for 9am is a nightmare. Also the decision a couple years ago of removing some bus routes made it even harder as now there is no bus from where I live anymore. So until something is done to improve transport on this side I couldn’t care less what improvements they claim to be making.

    44
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    Mute phillius fogg
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:14 PM

    Shut down Irish rail sack driver and staff and management fluck unions set up new company Rail Ireland hire same staff different terms bugger off to unions

    43
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    Mute Mark Gerard Lochlain
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:55 PM

    Every 10 mins in Ireland…!!!!ha ha ha ha ha don’t make me laugh!!!! Every other country can have it every 2 minutes!!! FFS

    37
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    Mute Rasputin
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:41 PM

    I think the minister must be channelling his inner Mussolini if the thinks he can get the Dart running on time. Whatever you think of the unions this is destined to fail and the minister is smart enough to have the unions lined up as the scapegoat when it does.

    6
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    Mute Neal Ireland Hello
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    Nov 26th 2015, 10:15 AM

    Mark, services that go every two minutes are metro-style trains or trams. DART style trains do not go at that frequency anywhere in the world.

    1
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    Mute Bob Murphy
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:36 PM

    What’s needed for the whole Irish Train Network is put Michael O Leary in charge and give this country a Ryanair of the train network .

    33
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    Mute Mr T
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:31 PM

    Yeah no rail network in other words, he(O’Leary) would run his Niro down the figures, fold the operation and that be then end of it. Rails unprofitable in ireland, we should be utilising our rail frieght far better but alas that was sold off.

    7
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    Mute Gary Stewart
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:34 PM

    Yeah he seems bad at improving efficency, lowering costs and making money. Is his airline nice to fly on? Not really but it’s cheap and for better value than the Dart more comfortable too.

    14
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    Mute Rebecca De Stanleigh
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:46 PM

    They really should focus on improving their current timetable before adding to it. Couldn’t organise a p*ss up in a brewery. Dreadful company.

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    Mute Bill Conlan
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    Nov 25th 2015, 6:44 PM

    Great fun at level crossings…..

    29
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    Mute William Clay
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:26 PM

    Every 10 minutes, that’s hilarious. They can’t even get one Dart to run on time

    27
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    Mute OneTrueVoice
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:00 PM

    Perhaps some of the 172 Luas drivers could train to drive a DART?

    It’s probably easier as they don’t have to deal with idiot car drivers except at level crossings.

    Would the Unions consider such crazy thinking? I still can’t fathom how the Luas requires 172 drivers.

    How many DART drivers are there for our Malahide to Bray route? I’m guessing at least 100.

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    Mute Robby D
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:27 PM

    Luas drivers will be going on strike soon if they don’t get the 20% pay increase that they are looking for.

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    Mute OneTrueVoice
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:33 PM

    They should wait for the next Government. They’ll be well looked after by the Left.

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    Mute Rasputin
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    Nov 25th 2015, 10:14 PM

    OTV, can I quote you on that?? The next government will be from the “left”?

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    Mute Todd Hebert
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:34 PM

    Just need to get rid of level crossings, which we should do for safety reasons anyway.

    25
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    Mute Mr T
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:29 PM

    Another flvte with no concept of engineering…. Ah yeah fire up an auld bridge and the train can drive up and over the road…….seriously where do you levits come from?

    5
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    Mute Todd Hebert
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:35 PM

    Actually, I studied engineering for a bit. It would be much more practicable to put the road under the train tracks, and could be done without moving the tracks, and with minimal “shutdown” time to move the last prefabricated pieces into place beneath.
    Obviously real people who actually have engineering degrees and have worked as engineers would have to work in the problem, but it can be done.

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    Mute Gary Stewart
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:26 PM

    I would imagine the issue is where the current level crossings are. I used. To work in Booterstown and when the road is fully open its a disaster at that level crossing let alone having to close it. Also if you mean replace them all, several are withing extremely close proximity to housing,several with minimum space around them and in areas of influence where permission will never be given.

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    Mute Gary Stewart
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:29 PM

    By the way I actually agree with you but not sure how practical it is and just don’t ever see it getting done.

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    Mute Larissa Caroline Nikolaus
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:30 PM

    Todd, correct me, if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t a road bridge work better, instead of a tunnel under the train tracks, why not go over them, at least in some areas, I think a bridge would be better

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    Mute Todd Hebert
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    Nov 26th 2015, 12:07 AM

    OK, you’re wrong!!! Just kidding. Whatever is most appropriate. There are probably places where changing the course of the tracks might be the best bet, others where tunnelling would make sense, some where elevating the tracks would work, and some where bridges over the road would work.
    There are enough ways to re-work things that SOMETHING can be done, it’s a matter of committing the resources to get it done. (and not raising our taxes to 835% would be a good thing as well.) ;)

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    Mute Garreth Mc Mahon
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:16 PM

    Good luck to driving through merrion gates with this one

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    Mute Big Red
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    Nov 26th 2015, 7:46 AM

    The Merrion gates need to go – either the train or the cars need to go underground at that point

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    Mute Nigel Davis
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:11 PM

    “Train drivers are questioning whether the plan to have Darts running every ten minutes is achievable, despite the minster yesterday already welcoming the idea.”

    Yes, it is totally achievable, and without drivers.

    It is time to adopt driverless technologies, the world is moving in that direction.

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    Mute Darragh Flynn
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    Nov 25th 2015, 11:48 PM

    Unions are why we can’t have nice things. If my boss asks me to do something for the greater good of the client, I sure as hell do it. I don’t have a cynical and negative attitude about it. I actually can’t stand the way CIE is structured right now, the whole organisation is mismanaged and service is piss poor as a result. Something has to give…

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    Mute Des Brady
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:07 PM

    What’s going to happen at merrion gates a flyover ?

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    Mute John Reid
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    Nov 26th 2015, 1:53 AM

    Irish public transport workers are so lazy, and work less hours, by comparison to those of most other Western countries. Irish public transport workers need a major reality check.

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    Mute Big Red
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    Nov 26th 2015, 7:32 AM

    What’s this got to do with the unions??? Surely you can only be asked to drive one train at a time??? The dart’s regularity is appalling – you can sometimes be waiting 25 minutes between 8 and 9am. This is good for the country and will lead to more jobs – end of story – but the union wants to milk it!

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    Mute Brendan O'Sullivan
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    Nov 26th 2015, 12:29 AM

    Ban the unions! Shower of wasters. So annoying having to hold up progress because of their outdated, pie in the sky, corrupted views. They’ve got way too much power.

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    Mute lilolil
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    Nov 25th 2015, 11:58 PM

    JC will this govt ever make a decision to actually improve this country and not continue to buy votes by paciifying these unions ….fire the whole bloody lot that don’t want to work there’s enough of them to step into their shoes…. They votes will roll in if they do a good job!!! The shortsightedness is what gets my goat….!!!!

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    Mute Simon Gaites
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    Nov 25th 2015, 9:01 PM

    Won’t this just mean more delays to outer commuter services

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    Mute Kevin Slater
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    Nov 26th 2015, 7:37 AM

    London Underground. That’s all I’m sayin. Just do your job lads

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    Mute Sean Mclad
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    Nov 26th 2015, 10:31 AM

    Jesus its so annoying to think that anything that is proposed for a better service in the capital is always followed with a “Hold on a minute” mentality.Your job is to drive a dart.Do your job and let the people in charge worry about the technicalities.

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    Mute j k
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    Nov 26th 2015, 1:16 AM

    Go the centre of london a train dispatcher and driver are supposed to turn a train in 30 seconds not 2 minutes that is the time the train triggers the front of the platform until the end leaves the platform depending on what station if something happens either could go to prison god save the unions

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    Mute j k
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    Nov 26th 2015, 1:11 AM

    Drivers/Platform staff cant win the company says 1 thing and we have to do the other HERD THEM ON AND HOME and when it goes wrong who is to blame the unions? we will c the

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    Mute Lawrence Lynch
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    Nov 26th 2015, 3:04 PM

    In fairness they can hardly manage the current dart service. I am a frequent user and It is constantly delayed. Some of this you can put down to things outside of their control but overall you spend a lot of time waiting around. The only bright side is when i am running 5 min late i know I will still get the train :) cant have it all i suppose! Maybe its time to allow a private operator in as competition… can you imagine the strikes then from IR. Although the UK experience tells us that is not always a good solution. The current situation is a bit mad though, its like rushour London some days such is the crush on the trains and as mentioned a few times the current infrastructure with level crossings all over the shop needs to be sorted. The chances of this happening are slim, sounds like election pandering by the TDs.

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    Mute j k
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    Nov 26th 2015, 2:10 AM

    same old same old bet u be in the celebrations u really r a fool boy

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    Mute j k
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    Nov 26th 2015, 2:14 AM

    like the health service ?? i have been in ireland funny country cry about water and when it matters only union who has to break the sence of ladies to not help funny wat u on obama care or bupa mummys boy???

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    Mute Neal Ireland Hello
    Favourite Neal Ireland Hello
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    Nov 26th 2015, 10:18 AM

    Huh?

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