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FIANNA FÁIL LEADER Micheál Martin’s response to the remarks made by Limerick councillor Kevin Sheahan is “disappointing”, says the Immigrant Council of Ireland.
Sheahan sparked anger in Limerick’s council chamber when he demanded an ‘Irish first’ housing policy.
Deputy Martin responded to complaints from members of the public by saying the remarks were made in a “personal capacity” by Sheahan and “are not the policy of the Fianna Fáil party”.
Brian Killoran, information and referral co-ordinator with the Immigrant Council of Ireland said it was “bizzare” that Martin used this excuse after Sheahan made the “factually incorrect claims in the Council Chamber and again on radio and national television”.
Here is the stock email sent out by Deputy Martin:
Dear XXXXXX,Thank you for your recent email in relation to comments made by Councillor Kevin Sheahan.
I can assure you that his comments were made in a personal capacity and are not the policy of the Fianna Fáil party.
Fianna Fáil is a Republican party and prides itself on treating everyone equally. It is unfortunate that these comments were made at all.
It is important that everyone familiarises themselves with the rules that apply to all citizens that apply for social housing .These are clearly made out in legislation and are available on every Local Authority web site.
The Social Housing Assessment Regulations (2011) are clear and unambiguous. There are rules for Irish citizens and those who are entitled or who have become naturalised Irish citizens. Once these citizens apply, there are income and other guidelines that are clearly stated and all applicants are rightly treated equally.
Finally, Fianna Fáil was in government and held the European presidency when Ireland agreed to accession .It is our firm belief that Ireland has benefitted greatly from immigration and integration is key to this and comments like this are not at all helpful.
I hope this email addresses your concerns.
Yours sincerely,
Micheál Martin TD
Uachtarán Fhianna Fáil
Anyone else tired of this political correctness?
The man is telling the truth.
I’ll tell you what I’m tired of… I’m tired of political correctness,but I’m also tired that every foreign national is painted by the same brush… I’m tired of the past Irish government politics that allowed most of foreign nationals to make a muck of this country.. I’m tired of foreign nationals who gets all the benefits but never did a days job in this country.. I’m tired that Irish social welfare can’t get up and start checking these people… I’m tired that most of them can afford cars that I was never able to afford when I was working 60 hours per week…I’m tired that old Irish people can’t afford to heat their houses in winter… In tired of foreign nationals who never made an effort to learn English…I’m tired of “social ret@@@s “who gives bad name to foreign people who actually made an effort to integrate into this country…and I’m tired to hear such comments because this country allowed itself to be used by useless lazy people..foreign and Irish nationals.
do tell me, how can you get all the social benefits here if you have not worked in Ireland at all?
The reactionary conservative in me is ready to burst out and say this is a good idea but where exactly do we draw the line?
I was in the motor tax office this morning with an obvious number of non-nationals ahead of me in the queue. If the councillor gets his way, would I be allowed skip them in the queue?
His principal seems to be that Irish citizens should be first in line for state services. Surely this will have to be extended to school places, outpatient appointments and a whole raft of other state services?
More sick of people saying they’re sick of political correctness to be honest
jaysus man, your well tired!!!
Knackered I am at this point ;)
No Dave don’t twist it to turn the heat up on FF. Be mature about it. Tell your masters in the dail to start acting like men instead of spoiled little mammies boys and girls. And that goes for all them owl ones in there. Get real and use common sense instead of just pitting against each other for brownie points.
Hear hear Audruis. Never a truer word spoken,
Being left out on his own high and dry for speaking a bit of sense.
Come on folks lets have a debate?
Muulticulturalism has failed in many countries. Ireland will not be the exception. It is time for a debate
Yes it has and we have started to lose or own “Irishness”. Now don’t start tryin to convert me to DDI, i can make my own choices man. A decent debate is all i want.
The housing needs assessment, along with other factors, determines a persons position on the housing waiting list. It takes into account many factors, including political representation, but does not discriminate based and country of origin, colour or race. THIS is the way it should be. An anti foreign agenda does not belong in decisions on social housing. It is disturbing the level of ignorance and hatred on this site.
Who said anything about being “anti foreign”?
You’re agreeing with the councilor,.and his agenda is Irish only. How is that not anti foreign?
@leonard I wont try to “convert” you promise
Grand Sam haha
As a country we should always look after our own first, charify begins at home and then if we can look after others. I’m not anti foreign but I strongly believe we should look after our own first.
Im not agreeing with the councillor.
Read my comments before you speak.
Stop trying to divert attention away from the issue at hand, silly little boy
If you’re not agreeing with the councillor, what are you looking to debate?
I thought it was Irish first…
I’m trembling in my little boots, oh, please don’t hurt my feelings Leonard oh high king of debates
Leonard, judging by your first comment you are saying that the councillor is speaking sense ergo you agree with him. Right?
The issue which as been brought up.
Don’t be so quick to judge, not being smart either. I don’t know what he said entirely, so it would be impossible to form an opinion, but on the issue of looking after our own first i stand totally with him. (it makes me cringe to say that) Dam FFG
The issue which has been brought up is an ‘Irish first’ policy for social services. You say it makes sense and you want to have a debate. Ok. Then you say you don’t agree with the councillor and that other people are diverting away from the issue. What’s the issue? Spell it out for us.
Yeah, well maybe you should actually listen to what he said before getting all moralistic. He comes across to me as just another sleeveen gravy-trainer, ignorant of any actual facts, avoiding specifics with simple-man bluster and pandering to the LCD populism that he hopes will see him to the Dáil next time round. A guff merchant looking for profile.
I agree Nivag. I would never vote for them or any ff fg they have proven to us that they cannot be trusted
Are these the views of Direct Democracy or do you just have their logo as a profile pic?
There is no reason why Ireland should be supporting citizens of other countries, we’ve enough people genuinely struggling here to support, not to mention all the layabouts who wouldn’t work to keep warm!
There are rules about the amount of support EU states should make available to citizens of other states. People shouldn’t be welfare tourists here or anywhere else. You’re from Romania/ Latvia/ Poland etc and you don’t have a job? Well if you’ve exhausted your PRSI contributions you should get a letter telling you the tap is about to be turned off. Then turn it off and issue a voucher for a one-way bus ticket home.
Same goes to non-EU citizens. And if you’re an asylum seeker and you get a conviction you go home to whatever awaits you. There was a refugee in my class at one stage who was married to a Spanish woman who he beat to a pulp. That’s when my sympathies for his plight finished.
The vast majority of social housing is given to Irish citizens. Rent allowance is generally given to eligible foreigners. There are some cases, generally very sad situations, where a person of foreign origin is put into social housing. I’m not talking about your average Johnny Foreigner or asylum seeker either, I’m talking about families in desperate situations. There are plenty of people in social housing, Irish and non Irish, that work the system and this above all needs to be changed so that genuine people are looked after.
@fuh, you dont need to work to keep warm. You just need to pretend to look for work or have babies. Pretty sweet deal for Irish citizens.
It’s a sweet deal for everyone regardless of nationality, except of course the ones that pay into the system, we pay for everyone else first and in the unlikely event that there’s any left over we get to take of ourselves too.
I generally find that people who espouse a ‘look after our own’ policy are people who spend my taxes via social welfare.
Irish first is not anti foreign..it is pro Irish!
He’s right it would be that way in any other country.cant see to many paddys in oz gettin council housing in oz
That would be a breach of international law, including the universal declaration of human rights.
That was in reply to Fuh Qiu
Only if he was a legit refugee. Prove his case is bogus and you’re away in a hack.
How about your priority for housing is based on needs & how much you have contributed to our country through taxes..
And all im saying is Irish people should be looked after first and foremost. And im not talkin as in Irish scroungers either. Im talkin genuine cases. Why are Roma gypsies housed right in Dublin city centre? Who actively engage in criminality, not saying all are either.
When the value of these apartments should be a lot higher, and why does the Irish tax payer have to fund people like Roma gypsy criminals?
@shayne cause Michael O’Leary doesn’t need a council house :-)
Wow, who knew so many closeted racists existed within the readership of the journal. Didn’t take much to bring them out.
Charity begins at home
JayTee racists hate because of who you are. People here are in the main another about what people do. Spot that difference?
Arrived and made an effort, busted your ass making a better life for yourself and taking care of business? Céad míle fáilte.
Arrived and headed to the dole line and claimed everything free that’s going and 5 years later still don’t speak a word, meanwhile bemoaning the racism of your host? Parasite! wtf are you doing here?
Multiculturalism is not failed in any country, crime and bad peoples are in every countries,all you have to do is make strick law and rules to protect the nation from bad peoples.
Policies like this would simply go on to create ghettos and then 20 years later Ireland would end up just like the UK and France with unsolveable racial segregation issues.
Much like tyrellstown? An Irish/eastern European/African ghetto.
Houses should NOT be provided for non citizens. We don’t have the money
@leonard, here here.
So, Leonard, do you think that all Irish nationals living in council houses in the UK (and there are a lot of them) should be evicted? Or are Irish people simply better than everyone else and above such treatment?
Yes i do think they should be evicted.
This is their country, stop sponging of our neighbours.
Well, though we may disagree, I genuinely admire your consistency and fairness on the issue. :)
Too many people on here seem to think that their opinions should not apply to Irish people abroad, so it’s very refreshing to come across someone like yourself.
I don’t think that just because they’re Irish they shouldn’t be evicted. You have to have rules to avoid exploitation of the process. It should apply to citizens only. Irish citizens may not be Irish by birth, but by naturalisation. A Pakistani, a Jamaican, an American or a Zimbabwean can all be Irish citizens. What he’s saying is basically people shouldn’t just arrive into the country and expect free housing. They should demonstrate their intent to live and pay taxes here by the process of citizenship. What’s wrong with that?
Exactly Amy. Now you see.
That’s because too many people on here are angry. And find blaming foreigners the easiest approach without backing up their onesided argument.
@ Leonard – you’re either intentionally trolling or have very twisted opinions on the rights of your fellow man.
Ireland since 1949 has not be treated as a ‘foreign country’ for the purposes of British law.
Since 1949 it was decided “Irish nationals” in the UK would retain certain rights not available to other foreign nationals. This was really a practical point – there were millions of Irish nationals in the UK, as there are now, and it would simply have not been possible to treat them all as aliens. Further to this, it would not have been possible to restrict movement due to the ease of passage between the ROI and Northern Ireland. As a result, the UK and the Republic of Ireland (and a number of other regions) formed what is known as the Common Travel Area. This confers upon Irish nationals the right of free movement throughout the UK, and gives them the right to vote in UK elections, a right which is unique for non-Commonwealth nationals. This is the reason that Irish nationals in the UK or coming to live in the UK are treated as UK permanent residents for immigration purposes.
But Leonard I applaud your consistency!
If by “twisted” you mean by not paying for housing foreign immigrants in Dublin city centre properties while there are hundreds of thousands of tax paying Irish people unemployed why not stimulate the economy a little? To easy is it? Now brand me whatever you want its common sense i have my man. Get your own house in order first would be my approach.
Heavenstomergatroid, – a politician who wants to put Irish people first, – What next;- .. a leader who stands up to his Euromasters….??
non citizens what you buffoon.
council housing is not “free”. Rent has to be paid according to your income which can end up quite high as rents increase if you get a rise or someone else in the home works so its not exactly free, also tenants are responsible for most repairs and its impossible to get any repairs that the council are actually responsible for such as electrical or plumbing and depending on where you live. Most tenants also do major improvements to these council houses which are left behind without any compensation if you move out. So no council housing is not FREE as stated above.
@ Amy: I’m pretty certain that making social housing available only to Irish citizens would be in breach of EU law. Aside from that though, the notion that people arrive in to Ireland and get free housing without any difficulty isn’t exactly true. There’s fairly strict eligibility requirements specifically for both EU and non-EU nationals and on top of this they have to meet the same eligibility requirements as Irish citizens.
Mr. Sheehan’s comments seem to be based on one anecdote as opposed to any hard evidence.
Looking at the amount of red thumbs you have I’d say your opinion is in fact in the minority.
Why is ‘anecdotal’ always said with a sneer by the sanctimonious shiite when they want to trumpet their ‘compassion’? (just vaguely curious)
You have no idea what you’re talking about, clueless comment.
Council is another flawed welfare system in ireland , go out and get a job and ur rent is jacked up, ultimate poverty trap
You are nearly correct, but not 100% factually correct! There have been several amendments by way of acts of both parliaments since the Ireland Act of 1949. Read up a little more in this!
Hat’s off, one of the few talking sense here
Houses should not be given to anyone. If you want a house get up off your arse and get a job and work for Your house. I’m sick of my taxes been used to pay for social housing and then you see a nice new car outside it because they don’t have to pay rent. I feel sorry for the people who had a job got a mortgage and then lost their job. They should be given houses not the wasters on the dole who have never bothered to work.
All council tenants pay rent *sigh* We are about to see a massive increase in evictions ordered on people in mortgage arrears. So when people are jobless (min 17/100 at present time) do you think they should be homeless? What do you think the social consequences of that might be? Google panorama, America’s poor and take a look at the children living in tents
Man you have my respect , you very smart
Cheers
I live in limerick for many years now ,the fact is that it’s already happing ,jobs,housing ,you have to have a connection
I havent any word to appreciate this post…..Really i am impressed from this post….the person who create this post it was a great human..thanks for shared this with us.
agen amp produk
Look hear, there was a Lithuanian guy caught dealing heron on the streets of Limerick at 11AM St. Patrick’s day. What did he get? 12 months. He should have been deported, end of story. In Guernsey, if a local person does not accept the job, then it is offered to non nationals. Ireland is a small island nation therefore charity should begin at home. Limerick city council only like to house Irish people in Moyross and Southill, whereas they are afraid to be seen as discriminating against non Irish applicants and house them in a mod con with all the trappings and luxuries of modern living.
I haven’t a problem with the heron dealers, it’s when they progress to dealing crack cormorants that I think we need to be fearful.
Guernsey is not in the EU, so they can discriminate on that basis. In return, Channel Islanders do not have the right to live and work elsewhere in the EU.
I’m not sure there Ruth, sounds a bit fishy to me, you’d want to have some neck!
@Declan… Sorry but your comment made my day..I know it’s a typo,but it’s funny as hell… Heron… God :)
You’d be better off dealing in Hens or budgies, Herons are quite big are hard to manage.
It seems to me if you voice your opinion on here favouring irish housing for irish people you are a racist and hater. I have no problem with foreign citizens getting housing in this country providing they are genuinly in need. However that is not the case and where I live it is almost a 50/50 split between irish and non nationals getting housing. I have also come across families getting doctors certs to say that their 3/4 year old has an attention deficiency which moves them up the ladder. Now which child does not have an attention deficiency at that age? The other question I would ask is how many irish people are living in social housing in eastern european countries because my guess is not very many if any.
How many ‘pure blooded’ nasty Irish slobs, gangsters and criminals are occupying Irish council houses, sponging off the state, raising large families they cannot look after and haven’t worked a day in their lives?
Are these the elite you are trying to protect and prioritise?
Far rather to see the families of foreign nationals being helped if they are also out working and contributing to society.
The hypocrisy here is appalling.
How many Irish are living in free housing and availing of free healthcare/education in West Africa?
“How many ‘pure blooded’ nasty Irish slobs, gangsters and criminals are occupying Irish council houses, sponging off the state, raising large families they cannot look after and haven’t worked a day in their lives?”
Pretty ridiculous reply Arbitrasure, you’ve debated why foreign nationals deserve precedence by building a rather crap strawman.
Dermot, I was pointing out the ridiculousness of ‘Irish First’ as a blind policy when many of the foreign nationals are more decent and productive that some of the locals that FF wants to prioritise.
Needless to say, FF are more focused on favouring those who are able to vote here, rather than bringing morality or decency into the equation.
People are not suggesting some Irish people don’t do the same sponging here far from it, i know families who’s fathers and mothers never worked a day in their lives and their kids go on to do the same. Its you my friend who must be thinking racist thoughts for you to suggest we are all racists for tellin some home truths.
Fair enough Arbitrasure.
I assumed wrongly you were heading in the same direction must other commentators say here…ie – “why shouldn’t foreign nationals get what lots of Irish get handed to them without contribution?”
Lets face it, many of the comments regarding topics like this descend into strawmen territory, fallacy of division and irrelevant conclusion.
:P
Council housing should be given to those who deserve it and respect it, regardless of nationality.
Why should someone who never worked or paid taxes receive a council house? There are plenty of Irish people who have never worked a day of their life and no intention of doing so, get their social welfare, council house and medical card.
If a non Irish person is here working, paying tax etc, I would prefer them getting a house.
by al means have a debate …but let it be based on fact…there was over 90 thousand irish people on the dole in the height of the boom….wasint many rearing up about that….and our prisions wasint exacetly empty either…the vast majority of non nationals i met are not the the ones who make the negative storys in the papers..i worked with people from at least 10 differiant countrys….no difeeriance betwen them and us…..human beings..sin é
This won’t be fact based though. Immigrants and people on welfare have been used by governments for years as a red herring for our problems. Look across to the UK for how people on welfare are being attacked on a daily basis (Daily Mail even said the welfare system had something to do with Mike Philpott murdering 6 kids) when the figures actually show that less than 1% of the total benefits budget is lost to fraud.
People look for easy scapegoats in times of trouble, immigrants are about as easy as they get because mankind still has this tribal fear of unknown people built into us.
your right…..but dont let the truth get in the way of the sterotype….its suits certain peoples.. and certain rags. agenda.
Populist crap by some here. We have been housed world over especially by English councils. I cant stomach the hypocrisy by some. This was the party calling for a FG Cllrs resignation in Naas but they have no problem when its one of their own.
I work on frontline of social services in Limerick. EU Immigrants here have exact same statistics as Irish with regards housing needs and unemployment. So let’s not take this conversation out of reality towards bigotry.
Irish national are actually 95% of my work load. If their was no non-nationals in my area I would still have work. I’m speaking from actual experiences not notions.
Hateful disgusting hate speech. The Journal should not be publishing your vitriolic rants.
I am stating a fact. There are public servants (not all might I add) that are spongers to the state, which in my opinion is just as bad as some unemployed citizens who refuse to work.
Hey Declan. If it weren’t for foreign counties being willing to take in the Irish, unemployment here would be considerably higher. Think about that for a moment before opening your mouth again.
I am for employment for all, provided there is enough to go round. Take a walk around Limerick and it has clearly lost its identity due to the mass influx of non nationals. Isn’t it any wonder the yanks don’t visit Ireland as we seem to have lost our distinctive persona due to the flood gates opening swamping all and sundry in the process.
You’re not stating a fact, you’re stating verifiably untrue rubbish: one person can’t single handedly bring down high unemployment or suicide rates. If people weren’t working in social services we’d be in very, very dire straits.
Then you ‘just state a fact’ which has nothing to do with the comment you just rightly got called on. Don’t throw crap at people about their work and then deflect the minute someone challenges you on your “logic”
Some social service workers don’t care about me you or Peggy Sue, they are so demoralised. What matters most to some is what they take home pay wise at the end of the week – GET REAL!
A lot more matters to me than what I take home at the end of the week. I prefer the idea that the state will look after people who are having a hard time. Even if I was incredibly selfish it would still matter. People who have nothing get desperate and that makes crime worse. People who have nothing can’t get health care and that makes public health worse.
Of course some social workers don’t care. They’re people. Do you think everyone in vodafone customer service cares about their customers? Do you think every farmer out there wakes up every morning with nothing but goodness in their hearts? They’re just people and like all people some of them are lazy, some of them are tired of the people they work with and some of them are in the wrong jobs. Some of them are also committed and get the job done.
I am a single mum working part time as I can’t get full time work and I struggle every week to pay bills. There are 3 foreign guys in their mid-20′s living in the apartment underneath me, they sit home all day smoking weed (trust me they keep the window open with music and smoke billowing out of it) they don’t work yet can afford to sit home all day – and afford weed yet I struggle on a weekly basis…….how is this fair?? I assume they are on the dole and in receipt of housing – in the 3 years I’ve lived there it’s been the same so don’t tell me maybe they’ve worked and paid their taxes cos I don’t think so!! This infuriates me!!
Phone the cop shop
They probably don’t have a great standard of living (smoking weed doesn’t equal that), same as lots of Irish people on the dole. It’s infuriating in that so many have fallen into this lifestyle and have no regard for their own future butI honestly don’t see how them being foreign has anything to do with it.
There are plenty of Irish lads on the dole smoking weed all day too Ciara! Why would stoners of one nationality be different to another? I don’t think the nationality is the problem here, it’s just the fact that they are potheads.
I’m sure there are plenty of Irish people sitting around smoking weed all day – it just so happens that the ones living underneath me are foreign and haven’t worked a day in 3 years – I know, I know there are probably Irish all over the world doing the same thing it just riles me that I’ve never claimed the dole, have worked all my life and am working now and struggling so badly whilst those that aren’t Irish can afford to sit back, get stoned and have everything paid for them! Hell they even have a bloody dog – I would love to have a dog but can’t afford one!!!!
So you don’t mind Irish in Ireland people sitting back, getting stoned and having everything paid for them whilst you work for what you have?
Of course I mind Niall – but as I pointed out previously I happen to be talking about my neighbours – not the general population of Ireland.
There are even more Irish doing this and never worked and no intention of working!! Their claim to entitlement is that they are Irish!!! These are the lazy feckers that never emigrate!!!
May I suggest you direct your anger at the present and past governments for their ill-dresigned economic policies, the increasing income gap in the country and the marginalisation of the lower-income group rather than at your three unemployed neighbours with a substance dependence (even though you admit that you are not exactly sure they are unemployed) – at the end of the day they are just victims of the same system that is oppressing you.
Also, many people who find themselves in a 3-year unemployment situation had in the past worked for 10 years non-stop. This is why we have something that is called a long-term unemployment problem. Also, a dog is not that expensive. But goldfishes are cheaper.
Lets get real here. I cannot understand how Ireland lets into the country all sorts of nationalities that really should not be here legally. Nigerians , Brazilians, Romanians, Bulgarians , to name but a few. I notice none of them re-emigrating as the “good life” here is way more they could achieve back home. The British goverment this morning announced a crack down on ” health tourists” , people coming to the country simply just to obtain doctor/ hospital treatment for free and thereby clogging up the system for locals . This is happening here all the time. Look at the backlog here for seeing consultants etc.Up to 12 -18 months for just simple procedures. This is not a racist statement , it’s a REAList statement.Wake up Ireland.
If they are here illegally, how exactly do they avail of the “good life”? Can you claim welfare, get social housing, free healthcare etc. if you’re not here legally?
Romanians and Bulgarians both can enter Ireland legally as EU citizens.
Yes they can enter but are not allowed to work just yet.January 2014 is thier start date. So all those Romanian beggars on our streets are here legally, I don’t think so. Oh ,and that Romanian woman caught last year trying to leave Ireland by car ferry with € 250,000 stuffed in her bra, some money to be made from welfare payments and a sideline in begging. I am fed up with all these do-gooders ,pitying the ” refugees” ,when honest ,hardworking Irish citizens are being sidelined to facilitate ” the poor unfortunate immigrants”. This councillor is absolutely right in his stance. Just look how many green thumb’s up for his declaration . I remember when I was at school we had to bring a penny every day to donate to “help the black babies “. Well now they are coming back over to Ireland to thank us for that contribution , but unfortunately they are not returning to thier homeland because of the “facilities” on offer here. We must be mad.
There is a difference between an immigrant and a refugee, the fact that you don’t know that just high lights your ignorance.
I sick of being called a do-gooder by ignorant racists like yourself, who had an easily life during the boom, pay for by German and French investment, that required little or no skill, who are now arguing that they deserve more money that they didn’t earn then a foreigner due to the fact that they were born in this country, regardless of how much you as an Irish person has actually cost or contributed to this nation.
Cllr. Sheahan though, I will say he’s not a racist, he’s a careerist who wishes to be carried into the Dail on the back of a wave of anti-foreign sentiment and doesn’t care who he hurts in the process.
Oh David , I take it from your grammar/ spelling mistakes ,that you too are a refugee / immigrant . How dare you suggest that I am a racist. Read my comment properly. I am as stated a REALIST. People like you are blinkered and only see one side of the ” problem” . I did not benifit the boom, unlike the spongers who have descended upon these shores to take advantage of our lax goodwill system. I don’t know anybody who has welcomed these immigrants / refugees with open arms apart from the clergy ,sleezy employers ( who pay them below the min wage) and other immigrants posing as “boss”. Get over it David, the good times are well and truely over. It’ s everyman and woman for themselves. After all, if that muppet in North Korea presses the button, we’re all going to be refugees.
Pay more attention before you spread misinformation.
Romanians and Bulgarians have been granted free access to the labour market since 2012.
You can verify this on the Department of Jobs and Enterprise website.
If only people were able to hold a decent conversation around facts and sensible ideas we would not have half of the racist comments we find here today and we might have found better ways than “green thumbs” to decide whether someone’s arguments are good or not.
By the way, how many green thumbs do you think Chomsky got yesterday in the RDS?
Patrick Gormley, you must have your facts wrong. Employment restrictions on Romanian and Bulgarian nationals were removed in July 2012 with a retrospective effect from 1st of January 2012. This means that from January 2012 they can work in Ireland as any other EEA citizen.
How do you deal a heron?
I don’t even smoke. You seem to know a bit about it judging by your photo.
With fish Ciaran
When we imported labour mid 2000, I don’t recall hearing irish first, ff & pds went hunting world wide. As you brought them to Ireland you might as well house them.
Correction. The EU brought “them” here. And I am definitely no FFer.
Correction Mary harney went on tour and spread the news….. Invite to all…
@Leonard FAS and other state agencies actively advertised Irish jobs in eastern Europe during the boom.
And the EU told us we had to take in a certain amount of refugees. I acknowledgme what you said as its the truth. So is what i have said.
EU 15 citizens all had a right to travel and work throughout the EU. The states that joined in the 21st century had no such right, Ireland was one of only 3 countries to throw down the welcome mat.
That was then this is now. We’re in a completely different financial situation. I don’t think we should be giving off the impression that we can house all and sundry for free and that they don’t even have to give back into the economy. I think at this stage there needs to be tighter control on who is getting the housing. If people are willing to contribute to society that’s fine, but to come over expecting handouts at this stage, it shouldn’t be happening. I think the way it’s doen in Oz is a good template. You have to have a grasp of the language, you have to look for work, you have to prove you will be able to support yourself. I don’t think it’s anti-foreign to be looking out for ourselves a bit in these times.
Leonard, under international law, not EU, all states are obliged to accept legitimate asylum seekers and offer them refugee statice.
David under EU law asylum seekers are obliged to sell asylum in the first EU state they can get to. Given that Ireland doesn’t have direct links to most of these countries, most of our refugees should have claimed asylum elsewhere rather than shopping around for the sweetest deal.
Fuh Qiu, asylum seekers are not required to apply for asylum in the first nation they arrivate at, the first nation they arrive at in the EU is required to process their application, the burden is on Ireland to prove that Ireland wasn’t their first point of arrival.
If there’s no direct flight or ships between Ireland and Nigeria then it’s fairly obvious we have an asylum system shopper and they should feck off outta here.
Same goes for countless other countries without a direct transport link to Ireland. You’re a welfare shopper. I’ve no problem with people moving to better themselves but claiming asylum is fraud in these cases. If you were really running for your life you’d stop as soon as you were safe and you were safe once you reached Europe. But you get better freeloading opportunities of you shop around.
Can you please tell us how the EU told Ireland to take in a certain amount of refugees?
Asylum and Migration policies are decided by each Member State, the EU has no influence whatsover on the migration policies related to Third Country Nationals.
In fact, Ireland had the second lowest acceptance rate when it came to asylum applications for almost a decade. And the ration of asylum-seekers per overall population is quite risible compared to that of Greece, Italy, Malta but also Sweden, Netherlands, France.
So, I am still waiting for your answer…
Under Dublin II regulations, if a person is legally entitled to transit (i.e holding a transit visa) it is the final destination point that is considered as the processing point for the asylum claim. Unless, they choose to approach authorities at transit and lay a claim then…
Does it include Irish Traveller’s first? Just trying to understand FF members’ racist logic more clearly.
As an Irish Family that emigrated to Australia 5 years ago , and are moving back home in the coming months . I totally agree with the Australian government looking after the ( locals first ) so when we head back we will be lucky enough not to have to depend on the Government to put a roof over our heads .
But it’s quite simple we have been there and wore the tee shirt if you decide to up sticks ( for whatever reason ) and move to a different country , there is a protocol where the government has an obligation to make sure citizens should be housed before any body else !!!!
The locals first? Don’t know about that, the Aboriginal Australians get treated pretty poorly by the descendants of foreign criminals in Australia.
A cap needs to be put on this NOW like the UK the housing crisis is getting out of hand in this country and with the amount of repossessions that are going to be coming up very soon what are our own citizens to do? Go on the street fact this is what’s going to happen. So I would say to our present and future governments get a hold on this ASAP.
I dont think its fair that the Irish should have to wait if a house becomes available … It’s our country and I doubt the foreign countries are handing out houses and social welfare payments to Irish citizens in their countries like we are here. I also object the laws on foreign citizens claiming for their children over here… There here taking OUR jobs… Pay for yere own kids while the rest of us are struggling to get an education to support ours. At one stage they could claim for their children and the children were living with their grandparents out abroad…. Not even in the country. No wonder the state is the way it is….. Bloody joke. If we cannot afford to support the Irish…we sure as hell cannot afford to support the foreigners …. But hey, we still do, and always will until a war starts. Bloody joke.
Firstly, yes, other countries do provide us support, once we become naturalised citizens. Secondly, I can’t stand this “they took out jobs” bull. Do you know how many Irish people work for foreign companies here? I’m one. The argument can be made WE took THEIR jobs. Foreigners have as much right to work here as we do out foreign. And the hypocrisy of it when so many of us have emigrated to work recently. Finally, and most importantly, if they worked here, got made redundant, but paid their taxes there is no reason why they shouldn’t claim the dole like us, they paid into that fund, they have a right to its benefits. The rules should be stricter, yes, there is welfare fraud, yes, but most of it is fraud by Irish people. You have a serious anti-foreigner attitude problem.
Amy, chill out!! You obviously feel very strongly about foreigners. I however don’t. I’m a mother of one and Iv worked very hard in life. I’ve paid taxes in Ireland much longer than any of them have, as have most of the country. The saying goes- look after your own first. If you had a starving child and you only had one meal would you give it to your child or someone else’s? And don’t say ‘I’d share it’ that’s obviously not an option. As u say you work for a foreign company… That’s your prerogative… But I Wonder what redundancy package you would get in the unfortunate case of them shutting down. Your very confident that they will look after you?
Route for your own country before slating it.
As for fraud in welfare…. It wasn’t fraud….. The government gave the go ahead knowing these kids were not living in Ireland.
U need to get your head out of the sand and quit being so naive.
Also Amy, if you can take a minute to scroll up and review @thomasdolan’s comment you may get a better understanding of what I mean …. He and his family are returning to HIS OWN country where they WILL be taken care of as the Australian government WOULD NOT look after them after I’m sure Thomas paid taxes to that government for FIVE YEARS.
What’s my redundancy package got to do with anything? Where did I slate my country? What’s an emotional “one meal between two kids” dilemma got to do with what we’re debating here? What am I being naive about? If ya can’t stay on topic and give rational arguments for your opinion and ignore my points then I can’t debate this with you.
Redundancy packages given to them by Ireland are far higher than what they will give to Irish workers….
You slate your own when u say its mostly Irish corrupting the welfare system, I bet u any money there are more foreigners screwing the dole than the Irish!
And lastly I see u couldn’t answer the 1 meal – 2 kids situation, I feel u may not be educated enough to understand why I added that in there so I will make it simpler- most mothers would give the meal to their OWN child first- therefore Ireland should look after their OWN first. I’m going to leave this debate there as I’m under the impression you have no idea about the subject in question.
Hahaha your comical. I’ll give you that. I’m uneducated cos I’m not xenophobic. Priceless. I’ve a First class honours from a university, I’ve got a fourth level qualification, and I actually work and am friends with these “foreigners”. I have a bit of perspective, and I’m not insular. But feck it, lets throw them all out, and summon all ours back. That’ll sort all our problems!
I too have a Uni Degree from TCD… I’m currently doing my masters … All the qualifications in the world won’t make u any smarter !!! You should lighten up though…. Lets agree to disagree… A debate is not meant to be an argument!!! ;)
“Fianna Fáil is a Republican party and prides itself on treating everyone equally.” except of course our developer friends whom we hold in much higher regard!!!
Go over to eastern Europe, Africa or south America and demand a free house, see what happens. I’d be curious. My opinion is you’d be laughed at.
We’ll have a job housing all the Irish illegals we accept back from the states if we follow the logic people are spouting here!!!
How many Irish migrants in the US David do you reckon are receiving free Housing/Medical/Education? And as for your argument regarding Irish illegals in the US? Send them home, they’re only making life more difficult for migrants who followed the rules and obtained visas?
Never said they should be sent home, just applying the idiotic logic of some on here!
this is ireland, let other countries look after their own policies. i totally agree with the councillor our own people should have priority in housing and i include jobs in that aswell
I have no problem saying the Irish should get preference. Why shouldn’t they its our country in which our families over generations build this country and paid the required taxes! That should go for any country looking after their citizens
you have no problem saying it yet you hide your identity… shows you are a coward. Also, it’s only by an accident of time and geography that you were born in this country – consider yourself lucky you are not the one seeking shelter in a foreign land.
You pompous silly man
How so? Or were you just too stupid to think of a valid counter argument?
Well done this man we have emigrated and pay tax but if we’re out of work in the morning we’re shipped home and their is no welfare available for us as it should be
Lucky enough to get a holiday in France a few years ago, strangely it was all designed around the French
I completely agree with the td. The Irish should be put first on these lists. If we went abroad to some of these countries we would be told tough luck sort it yourself we look after our own first.
We have become a nation of do gooders and worrying about what other countries think of us is part of the reason we are in this mess because we are to afraid of how we are perceived. Lets take a page out of north koreas book and do as we like and not care about what other nations may think. Now don’t get me wrong I don’t begrudge any foreign national a place to stay but they should not take preference of an Irish national
Look after our own first then when our own are looked after let’s help others.
After all what’s really wrong with helping ourselves?
Don’t we have shit loads of ghosts estates, problem solved
I voted Him but am not going to Vote him again.. he is not Good person.. !!! Felt sorry and Ignorant
Is that a Yaris you are sitting in on you facebook page?
What do you mean ,he’s not a good person? Just because he spoke the truth and you don’t like it…
Bet he gets massive support when the elections come around. Just look at what happened in the UK a few weeks ago . Local election , the Tory / Liberals lost thousands of votes to the UKIP party and came 2nd. Thier policy was mainly based on the same issue we are debating on here. Mainly, British jobs housing and benefits for British people first and foremost.
you shouldnt have a vote
I am almost certain that if we pulled together the genealogical resources of the gathering, we’d find a farm animal in this man’s ancestry.
In this day and age, (in my opinion) it is actually in Ireland’s interests to look after people from a foreign origin as much as “Irish” people. This isn’t just because of a liberal standpoint of equality, but also because of our aging population and globalization. Foreign immigrants are eventually going to be what stimulates our economy as our population becomes too old to stimulate itself. Therefore Cllr Sheehan’s statement is idiotic.
Will there ever be a day when we’ll have wise politicians??
According to this atricle here, immigrants, from 70 different nationalities, are on the social housing list in North Dublin.56 percent of those on the housing list, are non irish nationals. This is simply unsustainable.
I agree that that is completely unsustainable. However, I don’t feel we should be making people who are already here and who have already gained citizenship live out on the streets, just because our immigration policy has been at fault. People don’t immigrate here for the craic. They do it to gain a better standard of living. Sadly our economy crashed, and things haven’t gone to plan, but if you were in their position you would probably have done the same.
First off, naturalised Irish citizens would be classed as Irish, not as an immigrant. They are broken down into three categories. Irish citizens, EU citizens, non EU citizens. You can find the exact figure for the country here – http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/StatisticsandRegularPublications/HousingStatistics/
There are 30, 000 non Irish families on the housing list across the country. 25 per cent of them are non EU and only 800 are recognised refugees.
As for your last comment. I was an immigrant once, too. I applied to have my work permit renewed, but it was rejected – as the state I was working in, their unemployment skyrocketed. No welfare, no housing- just a thanks and goodluck. It sucks, but that is how immigration works in proper run countries.
we are being replaced in our own country. our own sons, daughters, friends etc are leaving the country in their droves while foreign nationals are swarming to this country. its beyond belief!
And here we go….. This is why I try and avoid immigration debates.
Fleur, how does one pronounce your name? Its a very pretty name and one I never heard of before. I take it that its French? And pronounced f-u-lo-er?
Thanks Kevin. You pronounce it sortof as if the “e” wasn’t there. Like Flur. (That is, if you are Irish. French people pronounce it much better in their own accent)
Anyway, I feel like there are a million elements to our unemployment and immigration problems and it’s not a topic that should be pigeon-holed. Something just makes me feel uneasy about taking an “it’s our country” stance. I mean, America has people from all over the world and treats them equally, at least from a political legal view (not ignoring their xenophobia and political polarity issues). Preferential policies, in my opinion, will only lead to increased xenophobia. We can all hark back to the “old days” where our country was full of white Irish people (who, to be honest, had unhealthily homogenous genes compared to other countries, being an Island and all that ). But the world is changing, globalization is a force that, if resisted, will probably only do more harm. People are just going to have to accept these changes, no matter how shitty their consequences are.
Also Kevin, I appreciate you responding with actual data, your argument is totally valid.
If I say Israël for the Jewish – Bravo
If I say Palestine for the Palestinians – Bravo
If I say Africa for the Africans – bravo
If I say Ireland for the Irish – Racist
Brilliant statement, hope all the previous contributors read this and buck up thier attitude ! Especially those with ” foreign ” surnames
We must look after our own first
They Took Our Jobs, DEY TURK ER JURBS, DURKUR DUUR
I agree on all circumstances being equal between two applicants the Irish born citizen should be prioritised.
However as pointed out by a few and ignored by many, we have our own families of complete wasters that leech their existence from the state through welfare supplemented by the odd insurance claim. These people nor any of their kin will or have worked. How should they be prioritised before a foreign emigrant that came here to work and has paid taxes?
There is a hint of journalistic bias in the reference to Micheal Martin’s email as a “stock” email. It suggests the email was a standard email casually used for a situation that arises frequently. A perusal of the email shows that the email is quite specific to the situation at hand and could not be a “stock” email. I’m not promoting Micheal Martin or FF in saying this. It’s just a bugbear of mine when journalists use terms that denigrate something inaccurately or unfairly. It begs the question why would the journalist do that and what else is inaccurate or unfair in the article.
100% Michael.
Well im sick and tired of paying taxes that are being partly destined to provide council houses to families that drive cars that i will never drive and kids that throw you eggs every single day.
I lived close by many council houses and havent seen any foreigners living in there.
Also, i could easily complain about how many nationals go to spain to get cheap medicines and FREE medical treatment, because back there the health system is free whereas here i have to pay everytime i go to the doctor or the hospital!
The Immigration Council of Ireland are a very sensitive bunch. They should take a running jump. They get taxpayers money in grants and only offer assistance to people who have nothing to offer this country. i.e, Immigrants. Money sponging parasites. They should have been turfed out of this country as soon as it became apparent that they had no intention of ever working. Every town and village in the country has this problem and it should be stopped. Cutting off funding to the very racist Immigrant Council of Ireland would be a great place to start.
Racism is a natural follower to failed economies. Lets not take away attention from the real problem causers in housing here. NAMA has lots of properties it could equally distribute to one and all. Just as various city councils do.
Only seeing this now, don’t really know why the Immigration Council of Ireland have the right to speak out?? When I went to them for advise on my situation a few years ago for me and my partners rights (same sex couple I am Irish and my partner is Lebanese). I was told this is Catholic Ireland and does not tolerate certain situations!!! It was only when Minister Martin agreed to represent our case and we managed to get our situation solved… So before fingers are pointed you (Immigration Council of Ireland) need to look at your own processes and advise you give people!!!
Dear John, I am sorry that you and your partner had a difficulty, but Immigrant Council of Ireland is an NGO that provides information regarding immigration policies in Ireland. It could be the case that when you contacted ICI there was no rules in Irish immigration system that would help your case. So really you should be blaming INIS, GNIB or Department of Justice of THAT TIME (FFG) for not having policies that would allow your partner to reside in Ireland, not the NGO that provides information to public about immigration policies.
There are provisions in place now that could benefit case like yours (subject to details of the case in question), but ICI does not make them, it only informs public about their existence.
Didn’t we have our very own Irish ghettos long before the advent of mass immigration? The ‘little Irelanders’ are out in force today.
Surely this Councillor would have been better occupied calling for a housing system that works for all people. I understand why Irish people might think they should be prioritised, but not at the expense of other human beings. I think its easy to view non-nationals as “them” and a statistic, but they are people with families and worries like everyone else. And this isn’t a political correctness argument, its a humanity argument. Is a person any less human just because they happen to be born on a different land mass than our own?
On a more practical note there are loads of empty houses in Ireland, its a disgrace that anyone here cannot have access to safe accommodation.
At the same time it annoys me that the Immigration Council want some sackcloth and ashes apology from a man who just spoke his mind. That’s the point of a democracy, people should be able to say what they like (provided it doesn’t incite hatred or slander etc.) even if one disagrees with it. To that extent I think political correctness can go too far in curbing freedom of speech.
Having watched this man try to debate this issue on TV3 last week, he clearly hasn’t a clue what he’s talking about. He appeared to have no idea of what the regulations state, and he kept getting immigrants mixed up with asylum seekers.
Martin is right about one thing; it IS important that everyone familiarises themselves with the rules. Perhaps he should make this a requirement of membership of the Fianna Fáil party to save him and his party colleagues embarrassment in the future?
So many nazis commenting here today. Does it feel good to be a racist? Does it feel good to blame all of your woes on an easy target, rather than on the obvious one – the fact that you bunch of idiots voted in the government (Fianna Fail) which caused all of your problems!
Whoah whoah, we didn’t all vote for them. I voted for Bosco. Dunno how good he’d be at running the country but at least he acknowledges he’s a puppet.
hehe that was quite funny!
Solve all of this by federalising the whole social welfare system. Every member state of the EU pays their social welfare contribution directly into a single european wide social fund. Make it proportional to the population size. Have it administered through a regional hierarchy overseen in Brussels. Regional economic disparity or fluctuation is factored into the regional benefit.
Result: No more social welfare tourism, no more regional inequality, everybody pays their fair share.
Note* non-member states are a different ball game. But at least the whole union would bear the load equally.
Go Kevin, ;)
@AggressiveSecularist – that won’t be necessary. One hard look at his photo bears your theory out.
I know what you on about Mr Sheahan, You dont wanted anybody to rob our country weather its citzen or not .
Its just people didn’t understnad your Logic.
My VoTE is with you..
Ireland is a beautiful island but a piece of shit country.
I am continually amazed by the amount of information available on this subject. What you presented was well researched and well worded in order to get your stand on this across to all your readers.
Operation 10k
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