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Ireland is in the midst of a road safety crisis. Shutterstock

Plan to disband RSA will be brought forward before election

Minister of State James Lawless says the Road Safety Authority needs to be split in two.

THE GOVERNMENT IS set to disband the Road Safety Authority (RSA) in one of its last major decisions before the upcoming election.

The decision will be “binding” and although an incoming government would have the power to reverse it, this is “unlikely”, according to James Lawless, the Minister of State with responsibility for road safety.

A memo to cabinet “in the next week or 10 days” will propose hiving off the RSA’s operational functions such as running driving tests and coordinating the NCT to a new agency, Lawless said.

He noted there have been long waiting times for some services which are essential to drive legally in Ireland. Some functions of the motor tax office may go to this new agency also.

Lawless’s assessment is that this operational side of the RSA is “not working”, while the authority’s safety promotion remit is also “not where it needs to be”.

These problems are compounding each other, with “potential for distraction between the two arms”, he added.

“If there’s a board meeting dominated by discussion on NCT delays and licence failures, there’s not the same time being afforded to discussion on road safety, for example,” he suggested.

“The road safety piece appears to be sharing a stage…in terms of board bandwidth and management bandwidth and activities, and they’re competing for attention, and neither [function] is really getting the attention it deserves.”

Lawless added that the public deserved to be able to avail of state services such as licence renewal and driving tests in a timely fashion and while the RSA has encountered issues with contracts and providers of some services “ultimately the buck has to stop somewhere”.

The RSA’s safety advocacy remit will be taken over by a new body directly funded by the exchequer.

At present the RSA partly funds this work with revenue from its operational functions, but it’s understood a report for government on the agency by consultants Indecon has found that this funding model is not sustainable and risks leaving advocacy underfunded.

Last year, the RSA’s total expenditure was just under €100m, roughly equivalent to its income.

It has not yet been decided within government how separate the new advocacy body will be from the Department of Transport.

Lawless said: “It may not be decided in the next couple of weeks, but I suppose there’s a direction and intention of government to separate out the operation from the research and safety piece.”

The new road safety agency could be an executive agency within the department in the same way that the Probation Service, for example, is within the Department of Justice. Lawless said he would like to see an increased emphasis on research.

Dublin Airport cap-017_90712835 Minister of State James Lawless pictured last month. RollingNews.ie RollingNews.ie

In a statement last night, the RSA said it noted the Minister for Transport’s intention to bring a proposal to government in relation to its future structure, and the government’s commitment in the budget to “fund road safety services and campaigns, against the gaps in the existing funding model, as stated within Indecon’s independent review”.

“The RSA will continue to collaborate and work closely with the Department of Transport and other key stakeholders to make Irish roads safer for everyone, recognising the need for continued investment to save lives and reduce serious injuries,” it said.

Defending the government’s legacy

The demise of the RSA comes during a road safety crisis which started under the current government – and has deteriorated over the course of its term.

After years of decreasing numbers of road deaths, and upward trend in fatal accidents emerged during the pandemic and has continued in the years since, although the number of deaths so far this year is now tracking slightly behind the same period of last year. This may be due to increased garda enforcement.

In the first seven months of the year, 113 lives were lost on Irish roads, 44% more than in the equivalent period of 2019, before this government took office, according to the most recent RSA analysis.

Is this collapse in road safety this government’s legacy? 

“I would say that the government has taken swift action to address it,” Lawless countered.

“It [the government's response] is as fundamental as you can get, an organisation being restructured and separated – and very radical transformation [of the RSA].”

More speed cameras coming

Lawless added that he would like to do more, including a more graduated system of penalty points for speeding.

“At the moment, it’s three points whether you’re in 1km over the limit or 100km. I think we could possibly have maybe two penalty points for, you know, 0-10km over the limit, maybe six points if you’re over 50km over the limit, something like that,” he explained.

Speeders will need to watch out – up to 12 new fixed and average speed cameras will be put in place by the end of this year, as part of a much wider programme of new speed cameras. Average speed cameras monitor the time it takes for a car to get from one point to another on a stretch of road and calculate whether they have been speeding.

Lawless said he’d also like to go further by making mobile phone use at the wheel a “non-intercept offence”, meaning it could be detected using cameras as is done in other jurisdictions such as the Netherlands, and tickets sent in the post in the same way as is done for speeding. At present, gardaí have to catch people using their mobile phones.

“It’s legislative change, but it’s simple enough and one I’d like to see. We’re rolling out hundreds of speed cameras around the country, so I would like those cameras to be more than speed cameras, I’d like them to be road safety cameras,” he said.

Asked whether roadside emergency medicine in Ireland could be improved to save more lives when accidents happen, Lawless said he has spoken to the Department of Health about the idea of more doctors attending the scene of accidents – as is par for the course in other European countries – and Health is “actively looking at it”.

Election politics

With an election probably just over a month away, what is the difference between Fianna Fáil and its coalition partners on transport policy? 

Lawless mentions Fianna Fáil’s backing for a dedicated transport police force in Ireland. He argued that this would guarantee resourcing of transport policing – as officers could not be moved to other areas when there is pressure to do so.

He also instanced Fianna Fáil’s preference for multi-annual funding for road projects, arguing that some road schemes such as the N72 in Cork and upgrade works on the N4 near Newtownforbes would have progressed faster if longer term funding had been put in place.

This is understood to be a point of difference with the Green Party. Minister for Transport Eamon Ryan has been challenged on this issue in the Dáil by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael TDs. The Green Party minister has indicated the current system of drawing down funding each year allocations means robust procedures are in place to ensure that expenditure can be attributed to individual projects.

Lawless praised the current leadership team at the RSA. It is not yet clear whether the current executive will be able to remain when the organisation is transformed into two separate agencies.

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52 Comments
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    Mute damien A.
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    May 24th 2012, 7:28 AM

    Since when are they neutral in that commission? Calling it the “stability treaty” when it is “the fiscal compact treaty” is already advocating for the yes vote… Hypocrites!

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    Mute Ciaran Whyte
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    May 24th 2012, 8:26 AM

    Actually officially it’s the Treaty on Stability, Coordination and Governance in the Economic and Monetary Union

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    Mute random
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    May 24th 2012, 8:30 AM

    Actually they called it the “Fiscal Stability” treaty. The leaflet that was distributed with the text of the treaty itself, and which referred to it only as the “Stability” treaty, was probably produced by the government, and didn’t have any referendum commission branding, just a harp. I’d say the referendum commission probably went with “Fiscal Stability” thinking it was a middle ground name, but the fact that “Fiscal Compact” is already neutral obviously escaped them (perhaps conveniently). #knowyourpropaganda

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    Mute Kevin O'Sullivan
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    May 24th 2012, 9:55 AM

    Double burn!

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    Mute John Johnson
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    May 24th 2012, 7:27 AM

    Can you imagine the furore if it was yes leaflets being sent inside the booklets

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    Mute KarlMarcks
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    May 24th 2012, 8:48 AM

    YES leaflets have been sent along with this. I got one with no identification as to source, only a website, and using the official government harp emblem to suggest it is not propaganda but government gospel.

    (Oops, everyone knows anything from Gov IS propaganda, what am I saying?)

    It’s from an outfit calling itself stabilitytreaty.ie which does not carry any address, phone number, or other ID. Isn’t that the kind of thing we are warned to beware of as part of everyday Internet security?

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    Mute Rob Queen
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    May 24th 2012, 10:29 AM

    From what I saw, the ‘official’ leaflet, pretty much is a ‘yes’ leaflet. Seemed to be all ‘pros’ and no ‘cons’ to me.

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    Mute Irish Eamonn
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    May 24th 2012, 10:33 AM

    I also received “Yes” and “No” leaflets folded up with the R.C. leaflet.

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    Mute John Johnson
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    May 24th 2012, 12:19 PM

    @rob, sounds like you should vote yes then :)

    15
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    Mute Frank Faldo
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    May 24th 2012, 7:36 AM

    The Referendum comission is pro the yes vote. Do they think the Irish people are stupid.

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    Mute mattoid
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    May 24th 2012, 8:11 AM

    Why do you think they’re pro yes?
    Genuine question.
    They are bound to be neutral, and I haven’t seen anything in their publications to suggest otherwise.

    57
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    Mute Sean O'Keeffe
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    May 24th 2012, 9:09 AM

    Referendum commision complaining about the EFD leaflet is being delivered with the official booklet, but no mention about the stabilitytreaty leaflet which poses as an official publication but advocates a yes vote and clearly flies in the face of the McKenna judgement.
    If the commision aren’t taking a balanced and objective approach to their task, then they are basically a PR arm of the yes campaign.

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    Mute Sean O'Keeffe
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    May 24th 2012, 9:14 AM
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    Mute Jennifer Prior
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    May 24th 2012, 9:29 AM

    Frank do the constant conspiracies not get tiring? Genuinely? When you start accusing the INDEPENDENT commission of being pro anything, and on an article detailing the NO campaigns attempts at subterfuge, it might be time to up the psychotropic dosage ;-)

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    Mute mattoid
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    May 24th 2012, 9:49 AM

    @Sean
    Your link refers to a Government website which has absolutely nothing to do with the referendum commission.
    I’d have thought that a man who is as obviously well-educated as yourself (no insult intended) would not have missed such a basic fact.

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    Mute Kevin O'Sullivan
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    May 24th 2012, 10:04 AM

    Sean O’Keeffe; The Yes leaflet wasn’t delivered inside a No leaflet, or visa-versa.. The Commission is asking that the postal service don’t put the No leaflet INSIDE the commissions booklet. Mainly because it looks like it was official propaganda from them and that’s false.

    Nobody is saying that a Yes or No leaflet can not be delivered WITH the commissions leaflet. Just not INSIDE their leaflet. Get it?

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    Mute Sean O'Keeffe
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    May 24th 2012, 11:15 AM

    Mattoid excerpt from Times article.

    “Dublin Socialist MEP Paul Murphy said the website was sailing “extremely close to the wind” and if the booklet breached the McKenna ruling he would seek an injunction to prevent distribution.

    “It is outrageous that €2 million of taxpayers’ funds is to be wasted on what seems to be a desperate Government propaganda campaign,” he said.

    Serious questions need to be asked about whether this booklet violates the McKenna judgement .
    The EFD booklet, however presented, is not presented as an official information booklet and is not paid for by the taxpayer. Many of whom I would imagine be extremely annoyed that public funds are be used to advocate a yes vote in this insidious manner.
    Why has the commision not addressed this?

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    Mute Jennifer Prior
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    May 24th 2012, 11:17 AM

    “SOCIALIST MEP”. Case closed.

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    Mute Susie Chester
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    May 24th 2012, 11:40 AM

    Jennifer @
    That’s the way to do it ….. An open mind is a wonderful thing , Unfortunately you don’t have one , well not in this regard . CASE CLOSED.

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    Mute Sean O'Keeffe
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    May 24th 2012, 11:48 AM

    Excerpt from the McKenna judgement:
    (refers to the use of public funds for advocating a particular position on a subject being decided in a referendum)
    “to spend money in this way breaches the equality rights of the citizen enshrined in the constitution as well as having the effect of putting the voting rights of one class of citizen above those of another class of citizen. The public purse must not be expended to espouse a point of view which may be anathema to certain citizens who, of necessity , have contributed to it. No one would suggest that a Government is entitled to devote money from the exchequer in a direct manner in the course of a general election to secure its re-election. The position of a referendum is not any different.”

    If it’s not bad enough that this government is intent on subjecting this nation to debt serfdom for generations, we are also to finance the propaganda used to achieve this end.

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    Mute David Higgins
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    May 24th 2012, 2:07 PM

    Sick of people trying to undermine the Referendum Commission.

    It’s headed up by a high court judge!

    Of course to see Sinn Féin ignoring a judge is no surprise….

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    Mute mattoid
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    May 24th 2012, 2:25 PM

    Sean – it is the function of the referendum commission to make available neutral and unbiased information to the voting public, and it has done this admirably in my opinion.
    It is NOT a watchdog whose role is to vet and censor the publications emanating from either side of a debate.
    The government may well have breached the McKenna judgement if it has used public funds to promote one side or another in a referendum, but this is a separate issue to the referendum commission publication.

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    Mute Gary Clowry
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    May 24th 2012, 3:50 PM

    David Higgins. It was exactly the same during the Lisbon treaty. Lot’s of people claiming the Referendum Commission was biased, and when I say lot’s of people I mean they were all no voters. And weirdly no one took the referendum commission to court, which they would be entitled to if there was actually bias. To the no voters, when the referendum commission disagrees with you I humbly suggest that perhaps you’re just wrong.

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    Mute Anel Cceram
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    May 24th 2012, 7:35 AM

    They are not going to accept the massive NO vote. I know nearly no one voting yes it’s madness but fg/lab are dangerous and don’t have a plan.

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    Mute Adrian de Cleir
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    May 24th 2012, 8:41 AM

    I’m voting yes, although I suppose we don’t know each other so that doesn’t count.

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    Mute damien A.
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    May 24th 2012, 9:12 AM

    They do have a plan, since we vote using pencils they ordered tons of erasers…

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    Mute Jennifer Prior
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    May 24th 2012, 9:21 AM

    Ancel I know no-one voting NO. Funny that.

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    Mute Mark Sweetman
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    May 24th 2012, 9:48 AM

    It’s funny you say that because the only people I know who are voting no are bums and people who couldn’t pass exams.

    23
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    Mute Mìchèal de Staic
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    May 24th 2012, 9:56 AM

    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
    Winston Churchill

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    Mute Kevin O'Sullivan
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    May 24th 2012, 10:02 AM

    How bizarre. I have yet to meet one person voting No. Seriously. Not one person. Everyone I know is voting Yes. This isn’t including those I know involved in politics either, as that would mess the figures.

    What if, the people vote Yes in mass numbers. You cant say “Well they never asked me to vote!” like people do when those polls come out “Well, they have never asked me and I am voting No! Nor did they ever ask anyone I know!” (Ignoring the fact that the Register of Electors is pretty big). You cant say its all propaganda and lies by the government. The people actually went out and ticked the “Yes” box on the ballot paper. Nor can you say “If you look at online polls, especially TheJournal, its all No!”.

    Any thoughts?

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    Mute Susie Chester
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    May 24th 2012, 10:50 AM

    Jennifer
    if you don’t know any one who has declared they will be voting NO, then I suggest you take a trip to the suburbs of any city and walk the streets and speak to people. Ask them how they are managing or coping with the recession ? I am telling you it is not a pretty sight.

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    Mute Jennifer Prior
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    May 24th 2012, 11:09 AM

    Susie EVERYBODY is coping with the recession. You seem to want to claim absolute ownership over suffering in difficult times as the exclusive domain of the NO camp. The irony seems to be lost on you that NO will not end the recession, and would likely only make it worse.

    I would also put it back to you that maybe you should take a trip to the city, go visit some business owners, not big corporates, just normal small businesses getting along as best they can in this climate. Small business groups have all come out for a YES. Now why is that? Could it be maybe, just maybe because there is a rationale for it.

    And I did not say there were no NO voters. Just that I don’t know any.

    33
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    Mute Susie Chester
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    May 24th 2012, 11:27 AM

    Jennifer@
    Ha ha
    I just love it when people THINK they know me .
    personally speaking I am quite comfortable , I can meet my responsibilities , I am not in negative equity and I have only 6/7 years left to pay my mortgage.I live in a city .I see the signs on walls and bill boards and know the RATIONALE behind the yes campaign , it is because of what I see and my experiences that I will be voting NO .
    What is your excuse for wanting to vote Yes ? Greed ?
    You have a good day and please think in real terms not soundbites before you comment.

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    May 24th 2012, 12:09 PM

    @Mark Sweetman So the economists warning that this treaty is “an economic suicide pact” are all bums who couldn’t pass exams?

    35
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    Mute Peter 'Nocky' Naughnane
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    May 24th 2012, 12:36 PM

    @Jennifer. “EVERYBODY is coping with the recession”. What an idiotic, foolish statement. I work voluntary for a suicide awareness and intervention foundation. You tell your statement to the families of people who have died from suicide from not being able to cope, tell that to SVP and other charities that can’t cope with the numbers looking for aid. What a dope!

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    Mute Mark Sweetman
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    May 24th 2012, 12:45 PM

    @ Tom Sullivan – no, I was merely stating that the people I know who are voting no are bums, etc. – please read my comment again, I said nothing about economists. Also, which “economists” would these be? Can you name them please, possibly a link or two to these statements would also be nice.

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    Mute Benjamin Guy Saunders
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    May 24th 2012, 12:48 PM

    Wow Susie Chester…you’re clutching at straws trying to redirect Jenifers question. Perhaps re-read your comment: “it is because of what I see and my experiences that I will be voting NO.” – do you really believe this stands up as a legitimate support for what you are advocating? If you yourself are reasonably comfortable, in terms of personal finances etc, then surely your experiences of living in Ireland have been mainly positive. I ask, what in your opinion could improve upon the life you have experienced, and how could voting No bring this thing about?

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    Mute random
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    May 24th 2012, 7:44 AM

    I got a leaflet about converting my money into dollars and sterling in mine. I’m not sure if it’s after a yes or a no result that I might have to do that, but I thought it was suggestive anyway.

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    Mute Mìchèal de Staic
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    May 24th 2012, 10:26 AM

    I go with Canadain Dollars ;)

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    Mute random
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    May 24th 2012, 8:49 PM

    Me too actually. Going to Canada in a week and I’m going to try to open a bank account while I’m there…

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    Mute Ailís McKernan
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    May 24th 2012, 7:57 AM

    If they have received complaints, they are from FG members. No one is going to rewrite their entire thinking on the matter by a no leaflet and a ref comm leaflet being delivered together.
    No, what is going to win this referendum is sustained threat from the yes camp, oh if you vote no the budget will be worse! Or the latest, my favourite- if you vote no your utility bills will go up!
    Everyone stay calm and hold the line, these threats have no basis in truth, and a no vote will give us the chance to correct what is wrong with this treaty and make Ireland, small though she is, a force to be reckoned with, and not some unimportant land on the periphery whose only worth is to prop up failing European banks under the mask of sovereign debt. Our primary concern should always be the welfare of every man woman and child here, not adding more loans to our debt just so we can

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    Mute Ailís McKernan
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    May 24th 2012, 7:58 AM

    …pay Anglo promissory notes on time!
    There! Finished! ;)

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    Mute Arch Archibaldovich
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    May 24th 2012, 10:05 AM

    You have an overwhelming misunderstanding of capital markets – if we vote no we will have to borrow money at a higher interest rate from the capital markets. Aside from that, this treaty should have been ratified 20 years ago. It ensures we do not overspend money which we don’t have, and stabilises our economy.

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    Mute Kevin O'Sullivan
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    May 24th 2012, 10:07 AM

    Its misleading. It doesn’t matter what side was included, the commission is supposed to be neutral. You wouldn’t be very happy if Enda was getting his Yes side leaflets included in every booklet by them. Peoples minds change very easy and very quickly – just look at the presidential election. All going the Fianna Fail way until BANG one remark saw it swing to Labour.

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    Mute Ailís McKernan
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    May 24th 2012, 12:47 PM

    No archibaldovich, it’s you not getting the bigger picture. What you say makes sense in an ideal, perfectly balanced economy, but ours? I am not happy about adding more debts to our balance sheets, from the ESM( yet to exist) or not. Why should we borrow more when there is enough money in this country that can be raised in a fairer, more equitable manner than is currently the case? Why should we take out another loan worth billions to pay for private debt that we never agreed to own? Yet being able to take out a loan ‘cheaply’ is what this treaty is being sold to us as- even though it has nothing to do with it! No one can even say how cheap it will be because this ‘magical’ fund hasn’t even been set up yet, as I stated before! It will hardly be free money like what micheál Martin seems to think.
    Also, we owe so much as it already stands that to let us flounder without aid, particularly when we are so good at paying back, would make no sense for the EU.
    So vote no!
    As for you Kevin, I couldn’t care less how the leaflets came through my door, I’m well able to discern the differences with each by simply reading them

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    Mute Malachy scott
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    May 24th 2012, 1:19 PM

    Ailis
    Come off it. If a yes leaflet was included in your guide then you’d be in uproar at Fine Gael. The postal workers who did this should face disciplinary action from An Post to be honest.

    Also in general I have to say I think its horrible that some people on here talk of “bringing a pen” into the voting center. There are thousands of people employed to supervise and they come from all different parties. To accuse these people of possibly corrupting an election is just downright disgraceful.

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    Mute Ailís McKernan
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    May 24th 2012, 2:57 PM

    Malachy- don’t tell me to come off it. I’ve been inundated with propaganda from FG and Labour, through my letterbox and littering the poles outside, but I am NOT in uproar about it. Instead I relish the opportunity to read up exactly on what they say so I know damn well what I am talking about when I condemn them. For me, I don’t doubt that anyone who puts a leaflet through my door thinks they are fighting for the right thing, yes and no advocates alike. Why would that have me up in arms, just because I happen to disagree with the status quo? Maybe that’s what YOU would do, but don’t judge me by the same criteria.

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    Mute Ailís McKernan
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    May 24th 2012, 3:02 PM

    Just to add Malachy- I certainly wouldn’t be blaming the messenger i.e. An Post for simply delivering them. Discipline them?! A bizarrely extreme response to workers just trying to do their job.

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    Mute Arch Archibaldovich
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    May 24th 2012, 3:11 PM

    @ Ailis – where is this money that can be raised? I don’t think our government would be borrowing money for the laugh if they could raise it easily through taxes (which it can’t). To support our very generous social welfare system, and indeed to pay for civil services, the government needs to borrow, always has, always will (unless we’re sitting on trillions of barrels of oil, which I doubt). That said, we can borrow money from Europe, at a reasonable rate (which this treaty allows) or we can borrow money on the capital markets, with our current junk status, which would cost a fortune to service the interest alone, regardless of paying it off.

    What you are promoting is a third world Ireland, saddled further with unserviceable debt. The treaty is our only fair solution.

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    Mute Declan Pollard
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    May 24th 2012, 7:52 AM

    The EFD, the ‘euroseptic’ party, shouldn’t be allowed to distribute their leaflets anyway. All their leaflets have racist undertones.

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    May 24th 2012, 11:44 AM

    Care to provide examples of their “racist undertones”?

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    Mute Mad Taoiseach
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    May 24th 2012, 7:27 AM

    Easy fix. Ref comm should pay postage.

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    Mute P Wurple
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    May 24th 2012, 7:34 AM

    Did you read the article? Postage of 190,000 euro was paid by the referendum commision. That’s a big feckin stamp.

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    Mute Julian King
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    May 24th 2012, 8:04 AM

    EFD – Europe of Freedom & Democracy

    More American crap, really?? That’s the best title ye could come up with, sounds like a power ranger made it up!

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    Mute Joost Bos
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    May 24th 2012, 9:09 AM

    We’re gonna freedom the democracy out of you, buddy.

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    Mute Jennifer Prior
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    May 24th 2012, 9:23 AM

    Awful fascist undertones to it EFD. Sounds like another BNP lunatic parade to me.

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    May 24th 2012, 9:45 AM

    Do you even understand what fascist means, Jennifer? We are already fascist. When private losses are paid for at the taxpayer’s expense, then that is quintessential fascist economics.

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    Mute Mìchèal de Staic
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    May 24th 2012, 10:05 AM

    @ I say it more missguided Keyenism rather then fascistism. Clear you belittle the name by throwning it around at everything.

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    May 24th 2012, 11:46 AM

    @Mìchèal de Staic I don’t belittle anything. I say so out of an understanding of what actually constitutes fascism, not what is popularly construed as fascism.

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    Mute Andrew Telford
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    May 24th 2012, 8:01 AM

    If there was a facility for the 2/3s of us who have the Internet to ‘opt out’ the government could have saved €120,000 that’s three teachers or nurses salaries

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    Mute Ceiteach Éireannach
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    May 24th 2012, 7:29 AM

    no leaflets must have been sent to FG or labour houses!

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    Mute Norse Thor
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    May 24th 2012, 9:16 AM

    that is why i am bringing a pen with me when i vote

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    Mute Norse Thor
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    May 24th 2012, 9:17 AM

    sorry replied on wrong comment

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    Mute Adrian de Cleir
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    May 24th 2012, 8:45 AM

    I got that leaflet alright, it was awful, im sorry I know it seems biased cause I’m leaning towards a yes vote, but if I was a no voter I would probably be put off. It was like propaganda you might see during WW1 or something.

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    Mute Jennifer Prior
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    May 24th 2012, 9:25 AM

    Judging by the nationhood nonsense espoused by them and the rest of their lunatic friends they are using Bolshevik Russia as a model. And we all know how wonderful that turned out.

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    May 24th 2012, 9:46 AM

    Do you really know how wonderful that turned out, Jennifer, or are you just regurgitating the perception of others? Have you ever even been to the country where it took place?

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    May 24th 2012, 9:59 AM

    Tom I have a degree in History and a Masters in International Conflict. I think I can make up my own mind about it and not “rely on the perception of others” unless my others you mean scholars in the field. Same goes for your snarky little fascist comment.

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    Mute Mìchèal de Staic
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    May 24th 2012, 10:07 AM

    Hey I am finishing my degree in Economics and History people still say I have no idea what I’m talking about! Funny that!

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    Mute Arch Archibaldovich
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    May 24th 2012, 10:13 AM

    @Tom: are you serious? “Do you really know how wonderful that turned out” – yes, check out the nearest history book and you’ll clearly see the USSR collapsing around 1990. Reasons therefore – bad economic policy, totalitarian regimes, miscarriages of justice, corrupt politicians, poverty, war, protests, one party “democracies”, purges, nuclear disasters, cover ups and the list goes on.

    I have been to many former Soviet countries, and they are still reeling from the effects of the Soviet era, far from prosperity -but recovering, thanks in part to democratic governments and capitalism.

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    Mute Susie Chester
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    May 24th 2012, 11:00 AM

    Oooh Jennifer
    Well done on your education ,you may know a lot BUT do you understand any of it ?
    I was not fortunate enough to be college educated (soon to be changed ) but that does Not make me ignorant of life or the ramifications of decisions made for the betterment of our society.
    Think about what you are espousing , it will effect this country and the PEOPLE in it for generations to come !

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    Mute enoughofthisalready
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    May 24th 2012, 11:23 AM

    Wow Susie you never give up do you. No matter what anyone says, they are uneducated, even when, as I was felt compelled to when responding to a catty little comment from another painful little person accusing me, they can prove definitively otherwise.

    And you don’t need to tell me you are uneducated. It is implicit believe me.

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    Mute Susie Chester
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    May 24th 2012, 11:37 AM

    enoughofthisalready
    Ah now don’t be like that ! I am so hurt by your comments …Not !
    I never say that people are ”uneducated” I have said that they may be ignorant of the real life of the ordinary decent people of this country , city or country, who are struggling terribly with this recession.
    I am not uneducated , but I am not colege educated , but you have the right to your opinions so I will leave you with them. BTW <What college qualifications do you have ? If any !

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    Mute Jennifer Prior
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    May 24th 2012, 11:38 AM

    I am sorry Susie but I genuinely have to stop attempting to engage with you. It is proving too difficult, much like say talking to a brick wall.

    But as you always say, have a good day now! :-)

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    May 24th 2012, 11:49 AM

    Jennifer, I have two doctorates. So what? I asked you if you were simply regurgitating the opinion of others or have personal experience of the thing you are offering your opinion on. I’ve lived in post-Soviet Russia and I can tell you that many people there would like to go back to the way things were prior to the collapse of the iron curtain. Personally speaking, I would have as little time for that system as the one we are currently living under. As for your parting remark, thank you for once again demonstrating that you don’t have a clue what fascism is all about.

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    May 24th 2012, 12:07 PM

    @Arch Archibaldovich I have not just been to post-Soviet countries, I’ve lived and worked in one. What I’ve found is a significant minority who would like to go back to before the collapse of the Berlin Wall. Note I’m not saying I support the system that was in place there, because I am not, it was far too statist for my liking. My question was based on my experience that those who proffer opinions on conditions in other countries more often than not have never been there, just as those who bleat about the need for us to be good Europeans often don’t make the effort to learn another European language and many haven’t even mastered English.

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    Mute Arch Archibaldovich
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    May 24th 2012, 12:57 PM

    @Tom – whatever about your personal agenda to educate people of Europe in European languages and English is a different point to encouraging fascism, simply because people have not been there. I too have been and lived in these states, and you couldn’t be further from the truth about will of these people to return to Soviet era. You might here them say some aspects of it were good (for example, low unemployment). That does not neccesarily mean they want to revert. That simply means they all want employment and security, as does everybody.

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    Mute Ignoreland
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    May 24th 2012, 4:26 PM

    If anyone would like to know what a current “Soviet” state is like to a quick google of Belarus and then see if you’d espouse that ideology and like to live in that state. De facto dictatorship, rigged elections, crippled economy with out of control inflation and the only State in Europe that still uses the death penalty. Only a few weeks ago they executed 2 men for their supposed part in a terrorist bombing, even though the whole thing reeked of a Government conspiracy and it drew widespread condemnation from the EU.

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    Mute Tim Higgins
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    Sep 21st 2013, 11:04 AM

    That will learn her! A little common sense is worth 10 degrees.

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    Mute Tom Callaghan
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    May 24th 2012, 9:28 AM

    I’m a no voter and I think having those leaflets is the only access to getting any information about these treaties, who cares if they where put in with the other leaflets, big deal it’s not the end of the world, at the end of the day we are giving more power to the germans to control our own monetary policy, is everyone in Ireland insane? We all PAY tax and we have a government. Let’s run our own country, our ancestors would be turning in there graves I can tell you of this goes through.

    Like where Is the Irish sense of pride gone? It’s sickening that so many weak people are duped and scared into voting yes.

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    Mute Jennifer Prior
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    May 24th 2012, 9:34 AM

    Pride doesn’t pay the bills Tom.

    And honest to God if the Yes side did this there would be uproar. How the NO side have consistently managed to ignore (in no particular order) the misquoting of famous economists, the lies about “6 billion”, the failure to outline a viable alternative, the hypocrisy of SF cutting up North, but fighting cuts her, and now blatant subterfuge, makes me genuinely worried about people.

    HAS THE COUNTRY GONE MAD!

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    Mute Tom Callaghan
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    May 24th 2012, 10:01 AM

    @ Jennifer we all pay tax to the exchequer which finances the running of the country, Jennifer can I ask you this? How much money do you owe to the German bond holder yourself? You must have no pride and defiantly no principles if your going to jump on the yes band wagon. how much money yourself do you owe personally to the German bond holder? So you will leave it happen that the minimum wage will be cut in the near future to mimic the growth in all this B.S treaty

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    Mute Mìchèal de Staic
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    May 24th 2012, 10:08 AM

    Tom the problem is we were not paying enough taxes to pay for the services we wanted!

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    Mute Arch Archibaldovich
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    May 24th 2012, 10:20 AM

    Tom this has nothing to do with German bonds. It’s about stabilising our finances. I believe this treaty, had it been enacted 20 years, would have prevented the current crisis crippling our country.

    I am not duped or scared. I see a sensible solution to a real problem. It’s about sound economic and financial policy.

    You would know that if you didn’t ignore the neutral stability treat information provided to you by the state, rather than reading national socialist gibberish dumped in your letterbox by racist fascists.

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    Mute Susie Chester
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    May 24th 2012, 11:08 AM

    Well said Tom Callaghan.
    I am amazed myself at the seemingly lack of Irish pride , but at the same time us No Voters are being shouted down , laughed at, ridiculed for our convictions . We are looked upon as mad looney lefties ….. There is no such thing . We want what is good for the country , the people , NOT the corporate side to our society .
    I read a blog today and I will share it here , Very insightfull if some what long.Well worth the read .
    http://austeritytreaty.blogspot.com/2012/05/what-we-admire-what-we-worship.html

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    Mute James Walsh
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    May 24th 2012, 1:50 PM

    I’m really going to have to stop reading the comments sections in article like this because they just make me despair. In general it’s the written equivalent of a group of five year olds have a playground argument. Most of it just revolves around calling people “traitors”, “cowards”, “sheep”, “idiots”, “dumb”, “ignorant” and so on simply because they have a different opinion.

    Democracy is about the fact that other people will have different opinions to yours and that even if you disagree with them fundamentally you should respect their right to have their opinion. Grow up people. If you think you can change somebody’s mind by insulting them you really aren’t living in the real world.

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    Mute John Johnson
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    May 24th 2012, 1:55 PM

    Feck off :)

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    Mute Gary Clowry
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    May 24th 2012, 3:40 PM

    James I made a list of the no tactic that were used on me directly when I argued with them.

    No side tactics…
    1. Pull on the heart strings.
    2. Try to drum up nationalistic fervour.
    3. Claim the person is a sheep, an idiot or whatever other name they fancy.
    4. Scaremongering. But they *are* stealing our babies.
    5. Blame anyone else, especially the Germans. (Often included with xenophobic mentions of Nazis, Fascists etc).
    6. Claim the person is being paid for their opinions.
    7. Claim bias at every possible opportunity.

    No 7. is a new one but it is interesting as especially SF are great at claiming bias but their default position on every treaty with Europe is a no. For that to work they they start with a no and then work back to the reasons to support it, and that to me is utter nonsense.

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    Mute Tom Callaghan
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    May 24th 2012, 10:48 AM

    Comparing Ireland’s problem to the soviet union, Jesus those degrees and masters in history and international conflict have destroyed your common sense! Lol

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    Mute John Gibbons
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    May 24th 2012, 10:31 AM

    Like lambs to the slaughter we blindly flock to the polls again.

    Has anyone actually even read the full text? I’d be shocked if as much as one percent of voters have yet we all think we know what we’re talking about because of what we read or hear from one side or the other. Is it not obvious that both have an agenda? Can nobody see that it’s almost all propaganda? Actually, does anyone have a clue what’s going on?!

    Why are the overwhelming majority of people evidently adverse to educating themselves from an impartial standpoint and making up their own minds without the influence of government, media, leaflets through the door or any other kind of propaganda? Is it laziness, fear, or something else entirely?

    People love to make excuses for themselves, “Oh I’m too busy”, “oh I’m too concerned with paying the bills”, “oh look what’s on the telly, I’ll do it another time”… What a cop out.

    Are we ever going to start taking some personal responsibility and stop looking to the same structures and entities who put us where we are to lead us away from it, or are we simply content to continue to cede our power, in order to give us something or someone else to blame when things go wrong?

    If you’re going to vote on something, at least know what it is your voting on and don’t rely on someone else to tell you what it is. Surely that’s common sense? Unfortunately that’s something that seems but a distant memory across most of this island and we’re all too eager to buy into the ridiculous paradigm that’s presented to us as ‘choice’.

    One way or another we will reap what we sow – we have up to now and will continue to do so. Wake up.

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    May 24th 2012, 11:51 AM

    Yes, I have read the full text. And that of the ESM treaty. And the Lisbon Treaty before that and so on back to the Single European Act.

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    May 24th 2012, 1:08 PM

    I believe everyone needs to do the same.

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    Mute Susie Chester
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    May 24th 2012, 9:45 AM

    ”The Referendum Commission says it is asking anyone who receives the two leaflets tucked inside each other to contact the Commission with the name of the road they live on in order to track where the mistake is being made”
    This is the sentence and comment that worries me… VOTE NO !

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    Mute Kevin O'Sullivan
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    May 24th 2012, 10:09 AM

    Do enlighten us as to your conspiracy theory on that remark? Seriously. How in the name of god does a comment like that make anyone vote Yes, No or not at all?!

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    Mute Susie Chester
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    May 24th 2012, 10:36 AM

    In my humble opinion , these leaflets were delivered free of charge by an post . If they wanted ”special” treatment then pay the postage. I have not heard any one say that it was wrong to put the commissions leaflet in with Nigel Firage’s explanation on the Treaty ( the man has ideas I certainly do NOT agree with) Conspiracy theory ?? Not at all . You carry on thinking that ,by all means and have a really nice day .
    Oh and just so you know i Will be voting NO !

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    Mute Michael Condren
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    May 24th 2012, 11:55 AM

    I don’t understand how you can make the claim that the leaflets are being delivered free of charge when it clearly states in the article that the commission has paid €190000 for distribution to An Post?

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    Mute damien A.
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    May 24th 2012, 9:45 AM

    Jennifer, you know no one that want to vote no: do you live in Germany? I am getting worried.

    Not an attack, just wondering.

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    May 24th 2012, 9:49 AM

    I suspect that there would be very few no voters amongst the Oisins and Sorchas of D4, roysh.

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    Mute Jennifer Prior
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    May 24th 2012, 9:50 AM

    Genuinely Damien, I really don’t know anyone voting NO. The only place I encounter it is on here or Facebook.

    And no, don’t be ridiculous. I don’t live in Germany, even if I did I don’t know why that would matter, but no I live and work in Dublin, same as all my friends and family. And we are all voting YES.

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    May 24th 2012, 9:52 AM

    Correct Tom. There would be none.

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    Mute Arch Archibaldovich
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    May 24th 2012, 10:22 AM

    @Tom Sullivan: bit of a silly remark. If the “Oisins and Sorchas of D4″ are voting yes, it’s probably because they are well informed, unlike yourself.

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    Mute Susie Chester
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    May 24th 2012, 10:41 AM

    damien A.
    Speaking of Germany and Frankfurt in particular , there was an Anti Austerity March in Franfurt last Saturday , where 20,000 people turned up ! http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0519/breaking16.html
    Not much on RTE news on this , that I saw !!

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    May 24th 2012, 11:43 AM

    Arch, how on earth could you possibly know how informed I am? Talk about silly comments!

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    Mute Gary Clowry
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    May 24th 2012, 3:19 PM

    Jennifer. I’m the same, genuinely everyone I have spoken to in person is voting Yes. The only place I see people being rabid no voters is online. Queue the usual calls that I’m a paid up Fine Gael supporter and other bullshít.

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    Mute Eamonn Kiely
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    May 24th 2012, 10:00 AM

    Mark my words if the people of this country vote ‘YES’ to this treaty on the 31st of May, the budget in December will be a blood bath. Good old nooney and the government will then say ” you all voted YES last May” Vote NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Mute Kevin O'Sullivan
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    May 24th 2012, 10:10 AM

    Old news. The budget in December and for the next few years will have austerity and tough decisions either way you vote. Vote Yes for austerity. Vote No for austerity. There is no avoiding austerity.

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    Mute Mìchèal de Staic
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    May 24th 2012, 10:12 AM

    Budget going to be bloodbath anyway. You do know this is not a vote on cuts, that by voting NO money with no appear out of thin air! At lest with the EU money we can do the cuts in stages rather than in one go!

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    Mute Arch Archibaldovich
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    May 24th 2012, 10:23 AM

    @Kevin O’Sullivan: that is the most true comment on this page.

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    Mute Rob Queen
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    May 24th 2012, 10:43 AM

    A ‘yes’ or a ‘no’ will make no difference to this year’s budget. Where it will make a difference is in the budgets once the current bail-out is over. I’m on the fence as to whether the budget circa 2014 will be more or less painful with a ‘yes’ vote. The fact is I don’t believe anyone really knows. Not even Enda. I personally would lean towards a ‘No’ simply because I don’t like the way we’re heading towards ever reducing sovereignty and ever increasing control from Brussels/Berlin. Because what works for Berlin doesn’t necessarily work for Ireland.

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    Mute Gary Clowry
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    May 24th 2012, 3:22 PM

    Rob. The body that is created in this treaty to oversee our budgets is an Irish one, created in Irish law. In the treaty we sign up to creating it. And sorry (not directed at you btw) but anyone who thinks we don’t need an independent budget overseer is crazy after what we’ve done to ourselves.

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    Mute damien A.
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    May 24th 2012, 9:56 AM

    And I respect that, it must be a Wexford thing then to vote no to that extend but in the end we have a democracy, whatever happen I will accept it, even if unhappy.

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    Mute James Purcell
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    May 24th 2012, 2:29 PM

    I’d like to point out the Yes signs are saying “Yes means Jobs” where are the jobs from lisbon? When will people learn what this country has become? Please vote no, if you actually like having your own nation rather than a state in the USE

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    Mute Rónán O'Suilleabháin
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    May 24th 2012, 3:36 PM

    Where’s your USE? Why haven’t I been conscripted into a European army yet? Why has abortion not come in by the back door yet? Why are we still so poor at speaking foreign languages when were to be all speaking German by now?

    Various yes and no campaigners talk a lot of shit in every European referendum, using various emotive topics to try and stir people and steer them towards their own agenda.

    Vote on the issues, not on what the yes/no side are saying that you agree/disagree with. Don’t vote no just because the government are lying about jobs and distracting from the facts. Don’t vote yes just because Sinn Fein are campaigning for a no. Don’t vote yes just because you work for a multinational and there’s groupthink among your co-workers that no is dangerous for your jobs. Don’t vote no just because there’s groupthink among your circle and Mary is in negative equity and where’s her bailout and the banks etc.

    It’s very simple. Throw out the leaflets and read the booklet and the treaty itself – they’re the only impartial sources you have. Not convinced either way? Listen to and watch the live debates. Make your mind up on the content of these debates, not on who is speaking on either side. You’ll see that it’s never so black and white.

    I won’t be in the country and I’d be voting yes if I was, but I’m only 55-60% convinced, as I’ve heard some very good no arguments in the debates.

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    Mute Rónán O'Suilleabháin
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    May 24th 2012, 3:25 PM

    Talk about a storm in a teacup.

    How can anyone justifiably suggest that a leaflet falling out of a booklet is to associated with the booklet? By that logic, I could argue that an post are causing public health problems by sticking pizza flyers into referendum commission booklets.

    All this story has done is to stir up the accusations about dirty tactics. If I was around next week I’d be voting yes, but I have a lot of difficulty with people in a position of power being allowed to campaign for a yes/no vote.

    Having politicians campaign for yes/no:
    1. Clouds the issue for people who look up to politicians (god help them) and rely on figures of trust (undereducated yes votes in this instance)
    2. Creates a platform for an anti-goverment vote (undereducated no votes) NB: I’m not tarring the No camp with this brush, I’ve just personally encountered a few people who are voting no saying “I don’t care what’s in it. I’m sick of this shit and I’m voting no”.

    This muddles the core majority of people who are voting on the issues.

    I think the job of our legislators should begin and end with proposing a change to the constitution, and organizing the referendum respectively. You wouldn’t see a government minister speak up in an abortion referendum, I don’t see why I have to tolerate them on the airwaves for this one.

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    Mute Sasha Musgrave Travers
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    May 24th 2012, 2:40 PM

    I have delivered no vote leaflets to all the houses where I live, and everyone I have talked to will vote no. I can’t emphasise this enough but bring a biro or marker, a black one so that they can’t erase it and vote no, nein, oxi nil, there you are in four different languages.

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    Mute Gary Clowry
    Favourite Gary Clowry
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    May 24th 2012, 3:25 PM

    What leaflets did you deliver?

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    Mute Michael McHale
    Favourite Michael McHale
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    May 24th 2012, 2:22 PM

    I honestly dont know what way to vote. Its hard to know as even the commission fail to explain it properly. We cant say yes until we know.what is happening with Greece. We vote no, we could miss out on support we need.

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    Mute Gary Clowry
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    May 24th 2012, 3:32 PM

    Michael whatsoever way you vote the crisis in Greece is irrelevant. The only information we have as a fact is in front of us is this treaty. So we should vote the best way we can on it, voting for the unknowns is pretty foolish IMO. *If* things change in the future we can deal with those changes at that time.

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    Mute Sean Norris
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    May 24th 2012, 1:43 PM

    Were we supposed to get a copy of the treaty cause it did n’t arrive at my house? Nigels leaflet arrived and I was nearly dazzled by the picture of the girl with the Icelandic flag on her teeshirt (which was probably the intention!) the small summary leaflet arrived from the Referendum Commission which I read in someone elses house. Have n’t seen a canvasser but seen loads & loads of FG posters and last weekend I spotted a very rare beast indeed A Fianna Fail poster!

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    Mute Ciaran Mc Hugh
    Favourite Ciaran Mc Hugh
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    May 25th 2012, 1:34 AM

    It doesn’t matter which way we vote until we get the bank people changed or a at least include them in the restrictions that will apply to deliquent countries, big fines and refusal to the esm when established. If that isn’t done or promised to be done, I will have to vote no.

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