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A NEW ROW has broken out between the ESB and unions – just over 12 hours after a deal was agreed to avoid a strike by workers at the company.
A deal was brokered at the Labour Relations Commission yesterday, which the ESB claimed in a statement that said no liabilities would be added to the company’s balance sheet.
The statement added that dividends would continue to be paid to the government.
However, the leader of the ESB group of unions Brendan Ogle has told RTÉ that he believed that the treatment of the company pension scheme as a defined benefit scheme would add at least €369 million to the company’s balance sheet.
The ESB then released a second statement, saying that they were very happy with the wording of the LRC deal.
It said that it would be preparing accounts for the first quarter of 2014 and would implement the LRC deal “in the normal way”.
And there was me being a good little boy carefully recycling plastic etc at home in the correct bin thinking I was doing my bit to save the planet. It now seems there is a better way.
@Eamon: This way, if successful, means that we can build a plastic recycling plant here rather than exporting to the Netherlands.
@Sean O’Dhubhghaill: I can’t see that happening Sean. They are moving everything else off shore so I don’t see them changing now.
@Eamon: Unfortunately the government backs 62 separate private companies to manage our waste disposal instead of rowing in behind a public service, so they’ve no control over how these companies recycle or dispose of their waste, which ultimately means (like the banks) that we pay the price.
@Eamon: there’s a better way now, you were doing everything feasibly possible before now . like the rest of us.
@Thesaltyurchin: Public service is ideal in theory. The RTE debacle is the reality of public service operations.
@Vincent Alexander: Correct. There seems to be no end to the corruption and definitely no sign of accountability. The amount of money wasted by those in charge of this state is frightening.
@Vincent Alexander: Bord na Mona and the ESB demonstrate that public service can work very well.
@Eamon: double charging at its best. We already pay for recycling…
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: ESB is being driven by about 12 private companies to supply a power grid. Bord na Mona seems to be ok but I would like someone close to its operation to comment.
@Vincent Alexander: The ESB designed, build and operated the power generation, transmission and distribution networks here.
There were so good at it, the did the same in developing countries abroad.
And they did all that while providing us with the cheapest, or thereabouts, electricity in the EEC.
The failures and problems of electricity supply since the introduction of “competition” is nothing to do with the ESB.
@Ria Cusack: And you are not paying for this. You get your money back.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: The cheap electricity probably came from the proportion of hydroelectric power that was produced. A lot of other countries could not do the same. Ireland was also late in the game. Electricity at one stage was a novelty and was introduced piece meal in other countries. Ardnacrusha was the making of the ESB.
Our use of electricity has outstripped that what can be produced by hydroelectric power stations. I would question the ability of the EBS to run and supply electricity in its totality under present conditions.
@Sean O’Dhubhghaill: And when do you think that will happen. This scheme is doomed to failure. Why would you bother collecting the few bottles and cans just to get a few cents back at the big multinationals. The small local grocer will lose out big time, if shoppers are coaxed away by offer of a few cents.
@Vincent Alexander: No, it didn’t.
Ireland got very little of its electricity from hydro back in the 90s.
Most of our power came from oil, coal, gas and peat.
Ardnacrusha has a generation capability of less than 90MW.
Moneypoint alone had a capacity greater than 10 times that.
There were also – at the time – Ringsend, Poolbeg and North Wall all in Dublin, Tarbert, Marina, Aghada, Great Island, and the many peat stations in the Midlands. I’ve probably missed some.
Hydro is small is total capacity, but is very useful to cover demand peaks, and also provides network security.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Ireland started to become industrialised in the late fifties and hence the need for fossil fuel plants. Turf was a cheap form of fossil fuel. If the ESB was so efficient why did private companies want to enter the market. They usually do so, not from a community spirit, but to make a profit.
The cost of electricity in Ireland is about EEC average – that is with about a dozen private companies and not an ESB monopoly.
@Eamon: All the environmentally run machines running off fosil fuel electricity and printed paper for vouchers that may or may not be recyclable (some receipts are not on paper that can be recycled). Plus extra trips to plastic/can RVMs all for approx 4 euro off your next shop with that store.
Who wants 15c building up in their pockets???
@Vincent Alexander: Works much better in Britain. Ironicilly we watch more of their public service TV than we do our own! lol. I wonder would ours be better if we didn;t have access to the BBC?
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Bord Na Mona has been heavenly subsidised for year, and now they have shut all the bogs with the loss of thousands of jobs.
As well as that we are now importing peat from Finland.
@Eamon: the figures for recycling of plastic bottles and drinking cans is much lower than for glass. Lots of people aren’t recycling them so hopefully this initiative will change that. I see it hugely in work, people mistiming water bottles in the regular black waste.
It might work OK if you didn’t have to baby sit the bottle until you get them to the machine. They’ll be more hold ups as the machines spit back and damaged bottle’s.
Country I emigrated to have this scheme years, as do many other countries. Yes we hold the recycle material in a bag and go about 4 times a year. We get about 50eu back from each black bag. Yes the machine can have an issue, you wait while the shop assistant fixes it. Part of life. The absolute pushback from commenters is surprising over a simple scheme.
@Ray Reilly: tough isn’t it : )
@9QRixo8H: Is your waste collection privatised/semi-state where you live?
@9QRixo8H: not for cans though.. cans won’t survive in a black bag for any length of time..
Absolutely load of nonsense. Just another shining example of how the Irish government put everything back on the Irish people as another charge. You now pay for your recycling bin and pay extra for products. There is nothing environmental about this at all.
@Keyser Söze: Such a diva lol This works perfectly fine elsewhere. And in those places, it’s hard to spot a plastic bottle littered anywhere, which is great for the environment by the way.
@Podge: Perfectly fine where there is public transport and general waste is paid for in municipal taxes. Here? It’s more money and more carbon emissions. we’re just not able to have solutions of our own. Ho-hum, I suppose.
@Podge: Show me countries that literally charge ya to recycle at home and then pay again to recycle when you buy something in the shops. Also how much energy are those machines using to recycle….this is and always will be another get rich quick scheme disguised as saving the planet
@Keyser Söze: exactly as some people won’t recycle and the government know this. Therfore they will make more money. Also as someone above mentioned these machines get clogged etc and shop assistant has to sort it so more time wasted for the shop assistant out there fixing it and people waiting to be served at the till etc? Ie small shops where there could only be one person working. And handing bottles and cans in behind the counter? Dirty and unhygienic as not everyone will wash them and people who drop them in in bags will want the bags back etc can see it being very messy as least at the start anyway
@Podge: their bin charges are lower though.
Will be taking evasive action. No intention of giving more time to this recycling project, beyond my diligent servicing of 3 bins & the bottle bank. The image of yet more checkout chaos is too much, I can’t face anymore.
The tantrums on this one
@William Noel Kelly: Nobody cares. It’s your money you are literally throwing in the bin. Amazing how other countries pull this off without issue but here in Ireland the moanfest continues…
@Podge: Other countries have better infrastructures in place anyway. We are trying to cut down on single use plastic and cans to better the environment, by building machines out of plastic, producing receipts that can’t be recycled, using electricty from fossil fuel – and encouraging more travel to and from these by vehicle (for a lot of people) – and this is supposed to be better for the environment?
@Rafa C: Took the words right out of my mouth. It’s a flawed system that makes no sense. There’s going to be more pollution when the big ol’ dirty ’08 trucks roll up to collect said bottles, and then going around shop to stop, and eventually venture off to dump said bottles to a tip where (probably) more diesel machinery is used to process them. Meanwhile, those who have no means to lug around heaps of bottles get shafted with these charges, and probably end up in the EU’s pocket which will no doubt get spent on more “aid” packages to Ukraine.
Another tax.
@Oh Mammy: sure, that is refunded to you when you bring the bottle back – I’m surprised you are struggling to grasp that part – it’s really straight forward…
@Podge: What of cans that are damaged?
A lot of tin cans have suffered damage even before they are sold.
It is difficult to impossible to keep empty aluminium cans free of damage.
Same for empty plastic bottles.
@Podge: it’s not straight forward though. Its only some bottles like not glass or dairy etc so if people drop them in bags the shop assistant had to go through their bag full and what do they do with the stuff that isn’t for for machine like glass bottles etc? Use the shops bins ? Or go sort out the bag and give the ones that can’t be recycled back to the customer all wile a queue building at the till?
@Podge: Except you can’t bring the bottles back to the shops you bought them from, myself and many others support our local shops, which are all opting out of the re-turn scheme due to their small size and can’t store all the returns.
@Alan B: They are, as if you dont, you lose money. they take the money off you, like they do with tax.
@Emer Daly: I might be wrong, but I don’t think any shop assistant will be going through the bags of cans and bottles. You will have to feed them into the machine from the bag yourself. Then again, as I said, I could be wrong.
@Anthony Whoriskey: Not exactly, supermarkets etc may have a machine, most shops will not and are required to sort them by hand. The machines are very expensive to buy.
One of the best recycling pupils in EU, this is a further Tax sheepies, whatever happened to the polluter pays? Manufactors put plastic on everything and we accept it.
@john dowling: Had a quick search, 13th or 14th out of 27 so no, not “one of the best”. I do agree however that lumping responsibility on the consumer isn’t the right way to go about it either.
@Diarmuid Hunt: The consumer buys thee bottle, the consumer brings it home. Why would it not be on the consumer to deal with the waste? You just bring it back to the shop and get refunded its not that difficult. It works in other countries perfectly fine but the Irish just love to have a good moan don’t we.
@john dowling: Are you suggesting the way forward is to do away with plastic bottles?
@john dowling: They won’t even tell the existing waste removal companies how the should be doing it. Terrified of industry.
@Podge: “Why would it not be on the consumer to deal with the waste?”
Because it is not the consumer who decides which packaging is used.
It is the producer.
If we want to reduce packaging, and/or encourage use of more environmentally friendly packaging, then the burden MUST be put on the producers – the decision makers – not the consumer.
@Podge: Yes the manufacturer should pay and then they’ll pass on the cost to the consumer
@Podge: I wasn’t having a go at this particular scheme, I was noting that all responsibility shouldn’t be lumped on the consumer in general when it comes to pollution.
@john dowling: hate to say it but you buy a plastic bottle, you are the polluter.
Lots of people get there food delivered to their home.
How do you get the plastic bottles back to the shop if you haven’t any transport?
@Hector turtlehead: You don’t. So you ask a friend.
@Hector turtlehead: No thought. Copy and paste from much larger economic situations where infrastructure actually exists. If Emon Ryan had an original idea he’d probably pass out.
@Hector turtlehead: The first thing you do is stop moaning about it and find a solution. It’s not that difficult.
@Tezmond McVicar: Should it really be Hector’s responsibility to solve a problem created by government?
I agree that Hector will probably have to, even if that ‘solution’ is simply to lose the deposit money.
But it is another illustration of less than competent government in this country.
@Hector turtlehead: Business opportunity for teenager with bicycle.
@Sean O’Dhubhghaill: So now people will little enough independence, lose that little bit more!
@Tezmond McVicar: We constantly seem to have to find solutions to the greenwashing been done for certain politicians.
Off to Brazil this Paddys Day, how much carbon is that going to create and his carbon credit boast, which we the taxpayer pays has proven to be hot air!
So with the introduction of this scheme, I presume we will be getting a reduction in our rip off bin charges as we will be putting less into the recycling bin
Deposit Return Scheme Ireland CLG – who are they? Who runs it? Where do funds from non returns go?
@Oh Mammy: Why don’t you google it? Why are you asking us all the fecking time?
@Podge: Awww!
Having a bad day, Podge?
Don’t like questions on the subject matter?
Why is that?
This is a report that is of great interest to those who read it. There is clearly information missing from this report. Important information. And people are reasonably and politely asking questions to elicit clarification.
Why should anyone reading a report have to resort to Google to find out what they need to know? Surely that is the purpose of the report they are reading?
And why do these questions upset you so much?
Surely these are not poking holes in the scheme, holes which you have not found a way to defend?
A nonsensical system to profit off unclaimed deposits…
@Kieran Menon: Let’s stick it to them them and ensure none are unclaimed… that will learn them
Ah great now if there is a return logo, they will increase the price of 15 or 25 cents … For a start. And if people can’t bother they will increase the price. So unless you are into it because you use a lot of them, and you have lots of time to check anything, you will get screwed more on the price. This is another scam and another excuse. These prices will go up and the one thinking cash are just dreamers, because they won’t refund cash that easy. They will increase the deposit as well because they will justify their cost for waste need readjustment…. What an absolute BS!!!!!
@Dominic Leleu: What a diva lol. This works in other counties without issue. Certain Irish people are just little flowers though and get offended by anything that requires them to do anything. Poor thing
@Podge: The reason people are skeptical is experience.
But why only with Re-turn logo? Why not simply say any plastic/can that has Recycled logo?
@Guru Sharma: Logo means depisit has been paid.
@Sean O’Dhubhghaill: other countries have for years, since the 90s as far as I can recall, let you turn in any cans for some money… none of tgis return logo nonsense.
You can bet they’re seeking to profit off all the unclaimed deposits.
@Kieran Menon: Only the scheme is out for a while and plastic bottles/cans etc that do not have the deposit paid on them are recycled, then they could go that way. Germany fir example still uses these as well to determine if a deposit was paid and due to you.
@Kieran Menon: Otherwise, would be a great business oppertinuty to start importing plastic bottles from other countries to claim at least 15c a bottle – great rates right there. Use brain before comment next time maybe?
Another sugar tax scam in the making…..ultimately revenue will make a nice killing and so will businesses when people get fed up having to drive back into a busy supermarket to get a voucher back being forced to spend it in said shop agaijn. Meanwhile people who recycle at home will probably see a rise in prices soon cos them poor aul waste companies wont like the competition
@Alan B: Tom’s right ‘though.
@Alan B: changing the subject does not change the fact he is right!
Why make plastic bottles at all?
Used to be all glass years ago.
@Hector turtlehead: So replace all plastic bottles with glass? Oh that will go really well
@Podge: Was it not the greens that said back in the dark ages of my youth to replace glass with plastic!
Like Diesel Engines, they do seem to change their minds, a lot.
I’m confused by this. Why not just use your green bin at home as usual? Does it mean that the products will now cost more? Seems to just apply to soft drinks and maybe beer cans which I tend not to buy but don’t understand who’s paying for this? The deposit refunds and expensive looking new machines at supermarkets look like an expensive investment that someone along the chain has to pay for.
@NoelDublin: I was as just as confused NoelDublin and I think the confusion comes from the fact that this scheme is just not thought out properly.
I assumed the deposit scheme would work like the old glass bottles did, you return a plastic bottle or aluminium can for say 2-5 cents per bottle and this incentivises people to not dump them on the street and also incentivises some people to pick them up and return them, maybe charities could use it as way to bring in some extra cash. This results in better recycling figures and cleaner streets.
The reality is instead that they will charge you an extra 25c per plastic bottle, or E6 for a 24 pack, and the only way to get that E6 back is to keep track off all 24 bottles and process them in to the machine back at the stores to get a receipt worth E6 to use in store.
If you lose 4 bottles of your 24 you are down a Euro and if they are never “found” and returned then the company that runs the scheme is up a Euro.
If the return machine is broken you will have to bring bottles home and try again some other day.
If the bottles or cans are dented and can’t be read it won’t accept them and you get no money back, company that runs it is now up 25c per damaged bottle/can.
If you have no car I guess you would have to bring returns every time you shop so that you don’t get a large build up of used bottles, if the machine is broken you will have to bring home your new groceries and your new bottles of water and bring home the old bottles that the machine could not take and try again next week with twice the amount of bottles.
There is something then about some stores don’t have machines will take them back manually, so presumably customers may have to wait while the shop assistant counts all the bottles in your large black bag, maybe they throw them out on the floor to count them, maybe other customers help to speed things up, maybe the shop assistant says you have 20 bottles and you know you have 21, so lets do a recount.
If you live in apartment or small house you will need a space to store your precious bottles too.
Will there be queues at the local Lidl for the machine, you have to use it on the way in to get your deposit back, or go back to the car with your empties, then do your shopping, then return to store to do the bottles.
Currently, for me anyway, all goes on the green bin, so this scheme, on the face of it, makes life a little harder and a little more complicated. I’m not seeing the incentive, it sounds like a crazy scheme.
People mention Germany as a place that does this for years but do they operate it just like this or do they do it more like paragraph 2 above?
@Paddy Short: Clarification: Looking at the website, its 15c for 150ml to 500ml, including 500ml.
25c for 501ml to 3 liters.
I wonder does the RVM machine crush and compact the bottle and cans, if so it would have to have 2 separate compaction chambers for each type.
If it doesn’t compact then those machines will fill fast, with mostly air!
If a store uses the manual system, they then have to store a growing volume of empty cans and bottles, how often will they be collected in rural areas?
Think I’ll continue with my way. The “stove”. Might not be environmental friendly but it heats the house.
@Alan B: Ahh to be fair, you cannot burn cans. And yes things are grim.
@Alan B: We already burn the bottles anyway, the government does it for us at the incinerator so might as well get some home heating out it.
And if your retailer charges you the extra few cent, but there’s no re-turn logo on it because it’s old stock, what then? Little profit boost for the retailer?
@Smelly Head: The bar odes on the bottles determine the price. The old ones have a different bar code priced differently. Seriously this isn’t difficult
@Podge: The price related to any bar code is determined by the retailer when they set up their systems. You know the same item with the same bar code can be different prices in different shops!
@Podge: That’s a lot of new bar codes.
Are foreign producers really going to use special barcodes for the products, just for Ireland?
Are Irish produces going to have to apply for, and be awarded, additional barcodes for these products?
And any foreign markets they serve: how will that work?
@Smelly Head: Would like to get an answer to that one!!!
@Smelly Head: Not legal to sell bottles/cans without the logo, but obviously the reality will be different.
@Trevor Donoghue: but it was before today. There’s some confusion over this issue as SuperValu say that if you’ve been charged the deposit on old stock, you can redeem it at the automated machines. But Re-Turn say it must have the logo, so in short, nobody seems to know
@Podge: I asked a question, smart hole. And it’s a question that many have been asking today, with conflicting answers from both ReTurn and a well known retailer. Would be nice if it was clarified, but we actually can’t do anything right in this country. It’s a great idea, I’m old enough to remember getting the money back on glass bottles, but they need to answer the questions people have.
THis is a classic example of Irish government social engineering.
Create a new charge, that’s is technically not a tax but will undobtably add to the end of year revenue coffers, then wrap in virtue signals re environment.
This system has been in the US for years, think about all the movies where homeless people are going around with bags and shopping trolleys filled with cans. (maybe only a mater of time until we see that here)
Everyone in the US has the choice to go and collect the refund 5c, or 10c or whatever, but the reality is only people who really need those couple of euros collect the refund. If you don’t need that 2 euro, for most it will not be worth the extra effort/work involved in bringing them back (while there is a green recycle bin to put them into at least…)
I don’t think its a real expectation from anyone that Irish society will act differently in this regard to the US.
So – for all practical intents and purpose this becomes a tax, but the government can truthfully state it’s not a tax – while knowing full well from the data they have that a high percentage of this charge will never be refunded.
The government is only stupid when it wants to be.
This in practise – as I’m sure the government knows only too well
@Atlas Collapsed: It’s more of an additional revenue for private companies than a tax.
The government always like creating additional revenue streams for private companies.
@Atlas Collapsed: Spot on comment here. This is it in a nutshell. If I have friends over and we polish off a 24 pack of Guinness, I’m not going to wash all those cans and then walk back up to Lidl or wherever to then stand at the machine inserting 24 cans for a poxy 6 quid return. That process in total will take about an hour based on my home’s location in relation to my nearest retailer that has a machine available and that hour is more valuable to me than spending it working for 6 quid.
Looking forward to getting in my 08 Land Rover and sitting on the M50 to recycle.
@Thesaltyurchin: Why? Just take them to the supermarket when you do your shopping.
@Sean O’Dhubhghaill: Hence the car journey to the supermarket, would prefer to return them to the shops that we bought them from saving us the car trip, but can’t as the shops have opted out of returns.
@Sean O’Dhubhghaill: I have it delivered (better for the environment). Maybe they could collect my recycling… oh wait.
I work for a convenience retailer, international barcodes are fun. So for example coca cola will have the logo and a new bar code and you get your deposit back. However something like gatorade won’t be changing barcode (volume of sales in Irl to low) they will need to add the logo to continue to sell here past St Patrick’s day (supplier deadline) but in the meantime you will be charged the deposit on International barcodes even though they don’t have the logo. You can get your deposit back but only through a RVM (machine) but not manual over the counter returns, because the retailer won’t get the deposit back for manual returns for product doesn’t have the logo.
@Noel McGivern: Thats nonsense. The rereturn have a different pricing structure, thus a different bar code to one pre scheme launch.
@Podge: That’s a claim.
Have you the evidence to back it up?
@Podge: I’ve got bad news for you, there are hundred of international barcodes in the Irish market. Some local suppliers (selling low volumes) and some big suppliers who use a single EAN in multiple countries are not changing their barcode. They’ll have a logo in a few weeks time but that’s it. I’ve sat on enough webinars hosted by return Ireland to know my stuff as I work in the industry. Those products can have the 15c and 25c charged added to them from today even though the retailer never paid at invoice stage. They can only be redeemed in the RVMs, not manual takebacks. Some of the products incl lucozade, innocent fruit juices, gatoradw and oddly enough 4pk budweiser and I saw coors light on the list too
I’m slowly starting to understand why the UK wanted to leave the EU.
Brilliant idea, assuming the process functions properly!
Its unfortunate that people need to be incentivized with deposits to make the effort. But it worked with plastic bags so hopefully it will be a standard routine in no time!
@Connor Savage: Plastic bags were entirely different.
This caused a shift away from single-use bags.
And was intended to.
The current scheme is not designed to cause any shift away from aluminium or steel cans, or plastic bottles.
I will travel to the north and get my bottles and cans and put them in the green bin as usual
@Paul: Sensible.
It’ll keep more money in you pocket too.
The machines are not designed under the Universal Design Principles and as such are disability inaccessible, like most of the green infrastruct pushed through without consultation.
Everyone moaning and groaning. This is normal stuff for some of us.
@Thomas Meaney: If you’re Irish, then not only do we have a right to moan, it’s the law.
Or maybe it’s in the constitution, or something.
Let me get this right we buy the can to consume the contents, wash the can, dry the can and bring the can to this recycling machine too get the deposit back. OK I get all that but what are we going to do in the summer when we have no water? Hose pipe ban, conserve water, water drought, the big one, WE ARE USING TO MUCH WATER WE NEED TO CUT BACK.
@David Green: But, but, but you have to make sure your recycling is clean and dry anyway??
Ossian Smyth, “you can donate the money to charity or GAA clubs”, totally removed from reality & just like the RTE scam merchants, when you are earning the mega salaries these Ministers are earning, you come out with statements like the above.
Who appointed the Deposit Return Scheme CLG & was their a tendering process ?
Is there any link with politicians or the Beverage Industry ?
Is the State funding this company or guaranteeing a fee if certain levels of income aren’t reached ?
How long is the license for this contract ?
These questions need to be answered, because as we see with RTE & Minister Catherine Martin, the Greens cannot be trusted. Lots of cosy cartels operating in Ireland & we the working taxpayers are being fleeced.
This is going to bite the greens on the btm a step to far
You will get used to it…
Basically just buy cans without the logo, the hassle isn’t worth it.
Many people have their shopping delivered. That reduces emissions as they don’t make a return journey to the shop. If the shop donot recycle empties for those customers then they will be making return journeys to the shop to do so. And this is a Green initiative?
The machines that are been used have a 10euro max retun limit per single transaction, which works out at 66.6 bottles or cans of the standard 330ml or 500ml range. Not all shops are in the scheme due to the cost of the machine or lack of space, and only items with the return logo are in the scheme. A better system would be you sign up for a card and you enter it into a machine when recycling the can or bottle and it tops up the card and showing you the balance on screen when done. This would allow for a more wide spread option for recycling. As you can only use the voucher in the store where you returned the items. So let’s say I buy all my cans or bottles from shop A as I work near there and it easier for me . But I return them to shop B which is near my house. Is shop B then out money as it may be refunding more than its taking in from the scheme, or it is the extra charge goes to the government/revenue and the shop then submitts the spent refund vouchers as claim back? If so then using a top up card like system would make more sense as once you have credit on the card you use that card to purchase in a store and they same applies that transaction is then claimed back by that retailer as it was funded by the return scheme. It just seems to be a great idea but with some gaps! Also will this mean our household recycling charge will drop as in theory we will be recycling else where or will they up the charges as they will lose revenue from not get aluminium cans and plastics in the waste.
@James Brennan: Bring charges down, that will never happen. All those private companies that give a more expensive and worse service than the councils ever did. Not going to happen!
Who would bother
Good start: in Lidl Clondalkin: machine doesn’t take any bottle, even with logo on it.
Alan B: no one is forcing me to buy a lucozade?
What a load of clap. Make the bottles glass, that will will solve it
But will there be a common recycle bin nearby for all the stuff the machine refuses?
Those of us old enough to remember the glass mineral bottle deposits will remember the joy, as a child, of finding a discarded bottle and running to the local shop for sweets. It will be interesting to see if the amount of litter left after festivals, or just sunny days, will decline.
Kids, homeless, etc will also benefit from lazy discarders.
@June Kennedy: yes I remember scrounging around for big brother glass bottles and returning them to the shop and buying penny sweets with then or a few refresher bars or wham bars or a few calypso bar macaroon bars etc. The good old simple days.
Ye brought the people with ye? I don’t remember being given a choice
Can’t compare Ireland to Germany!
Can we have a return deposit on our TV TAX???!!!
Can I get the money put back onto my card? I am guessing not as it says cash. If they want people to get on board make it easy for people to get their money back. The voucher system seems very dated, I don’t like the idea, I recycle at home and I already give money to charity. In it’s current form I won’t be supporting it. I don’t want a voucher for the shop. If they get a system whereby I bring stuff back and tap my card and the money goes straight back into my account no questions asked I will gladly use. Until then I am happy with my blue bin and money in my account.
@Modern Irish Dad: as far as I know you can’t even spend the voucher in a different shop of the same chain. anyway first mess-up doesn’t need a return logo 800 + products are charged a deposit without the logo and the machine reads the barcode anyway
It’s a great idea. Either people will stop buying cans and plastic bottles or they are incentivised to bring them back. Win win all round.
I went through this for years while living abroad and it works great. It’s obviously too complicated and progressive for many to understand.
@Tom Dillon: What is to understand, they have found another way to tax people by greenwashing!
If ppl complain to such an extent about a simple recycling scheme, no wonder this country is so behind Europe on so many initiatives.
Everything can work in other countries. Not in Ireland though.
@Concerned Driver: We already have a simple recycing scheme. It’s called the green bin. Now my beer goes up by 15c a can and I have to wash and return it when I used to just wash it and place it in the bin that I pay for each month. This is a crock.
@Concerned Driver: Agree. We always whinge and moan when new directives are brought in, then we are all happily using them a year down the line. Look at Eircodes, for example. We couldn’t live without them now but everyone mocked the government and complained about them when they were initially suggested.
@Concerned Driver: because in other countries bin charges are cheaper or it is included in property tax and cars are up to 10k cheaper in mainland Europe.
@Etcher: You had to wash them anyway.
This works well in Germany. The streets are clean of all bottles. If someone buys a bottle and due to laziness or simply being an ignorant d!ck throws it on the ground it can be guaranteed that it’ll be picked up by someone and returned for deposit. I remember on a few occasions throwing bottles in a bin in Dresden and there were literally people fighting over ownership of it lol. They would literally go from bin to bin picking out cans and bottles. This is a full time job for some people over there
@casio shock: Wow, that sounds great. People fighting over rubbish and the attitude is “sure some homeless dude will pick that up so I can just leave it here”
@Etcher: tbh they were’nt actually homeless people. They were respectable middle aged women vying for the bottles :-)
@casio shock: If said bottle or can is damaged, if someone steps on it or car runs over it, no deposit and “Deposit Return Scheme Ireland CLG” is up another 25c.
Valueless damaged bottle is then potentially returned to the street?
@Paddy Short: No. ‘Valueless’ damaged bottle is put in standard recycling.
My neighbour has been collecting discarded cans for years in anticipation of a payout. He’s heartbroken to discover it’s all been a waste of time and space.
The price on cans that can’t be used in this scheme were put up in Aldi Santry to match the price of those that can be returned.
The usual politically motivated anti everything mob are in the comments. They habitually whinge and moan to serve their political masters. So weak.
Those words are absolute false:
“Smyth pointed to successful examples of similar deposit return schemes in 40 other countries, including 15 in the EU.”
At those eu countries you can give back any can or bottle, no any label required. I honestly tried to keep and utilize properly bottle, I have many but no stupid label re-turn, what should I do now? This is stupid program, I regret Ireland does it wrong again and again.
@Eugene Sol: In the other EU countries the bottles and cans have the “green point“ label which is accepted cross border.
And according to Liveline the world ended with this move …
Sorry folks but I’ve picked a wheelie bin full of litter over two walks the last 2 days. 90% of it is aluminium cans and plastic bottles.
It’s everywhere you look. Let’s try this and see where it goes. We might eventually have to make the deposit more than the cost of the liquid.
I’ve seen this in many countries, in particular in Germany. Every supermarket, shop etc. has a few of these return machines at their front entrance. Just bring them back with you when you do the grocery shopping if you want your money back….. or don’t if you’re a narky sod! :)
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