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JADA PINKETT SMITH has revealed that she and Will Smith have been separated since 2016.
In an interview with American television channel NBC, the actress revealed that she and her ex-husband decided to “live separate lives” from one another for the past seven years.
Pinkett Smith agreed with the interviewer that while the separation was “not a divorce on paper”, the pair had been separated since 2016. The reveal was made in her new book ‘Worthy’.
Asked why the couple had decided not to disclose the split publicly, Pinkett Smith said the pair had decided keep quiet about the split until they could figure out how to remain a partnership.
“Still trying to figure out, between the two of us, how to be in partnership [...] in regards to ‘How do we present that to people?’. And we hadn’t figured that out,” she said.
Rumors of affairs and an open marriage were repeatedly denied by the couple for many years.
In 2020, Pinkett Smith openly discussed an extramarital “entanglement” on her ‘Red Table Talk’ show with singer August Alsina, a friend of her son’s, some years earlier, during a period of separation from her husband.
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However, she reassured viewers of the show that she and Will Smith had maintained their relationship and that the pair were still married.
In 2021, Will Smith told GQ that the couple had both engaged in relationships outside of their marriage, claiming : “Jada never believed in conventional marriage,”.
He added: “We have given each other trust and freedom, with the belief that everybody has to find their own way. And marriage for us can’t be a prison.”
Will Smith slapping Chris Rock on the stage of the Oscars in 2022. CHRIS PIZZELLO
CHRIS PIZZELLO
In the excerpt, Pinkett Smith recalls that she initially thought the slap was a “skit,” and even once she realized it wasn’t remained “unclear on the reason why Will is so upset.”
“We had been living separate lives and were there as family, not as husband and wife,” she writes.
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Try being a male “victim ” of abuse,where is the equality in getting services? Where is the equality in getting acknowledged as equal to a female abuse “victim”, this is the bit that scares me ,what are we saying to male ” victims” being abused now and in the future,and we think this issue is different for men !! Where are our voices?
@David Dineen: David you have a valid point however this argument is always framed as “well what about us” whereas it should be a discussion on abuse over all.
Yes, male victims are ignored but so are female victims sometimes
@David Dineen: yep your bang on, 6 male survivor s of child abuse are on hunger strike to protest the lack of help they have received, yet over on Twitter they are completely ignored, now can you imagine the outrage if they were females,
@David Dineen: If I could applaud this and give the author a bow I would. It articulates extremely well what a lot of men feel and would liked to have said themselves. Over the years I’ve seen very good friends so badly treated by wives who just got fed up with them, had affairs and decided to manipulate the system to their advantage. In one particular case this led to a suicide that, as far as I’m concerned was nothing short of murder, but it’s not only legal but State sponsored.
@Luke Dillon: It is like walking on eggshells but I think it’s designed to be. Even saying you’re not a feminist is taken to automatically mean you’re a misogynist, regardless of the legitimate criticisms you have of what feminism has become. That’s how they control the narrative. The author has done a great job of being rational and fair yet I guarantee there are those that won’t see it that way.
@Awkward Seal: I honestly can’t believe you haven’t figured this out for yourself but the trick is to say that you are a feminist yourself and complain loudly about all those folk who are sadly less enlightened. That will muddy the waters nicely. Throw in a few quotes from a celebrity feminist, say you think Hillary Clinton should have won the election on merit and you’re off to a winning start. Lesson over.
@Luke Dillon: agree , a lot if coverage in media these days seems to have descended into various bandwagons of a cocktail of political correctness , gender balance , inequality and an avalanche of “all men are baxtards” vitriol once an article appears about some of the awful crimes and sexual assaults / the plethora of snowflake and feminazi vitriol and whining that seems to fill the comment sections is ironically often the most blatant sexism ranting about men and labeling all men as deviants and degenerates and and guilty by association of mistreating all women in society / the truth is there’s a silent majority of men who have to watch and read this nonsense and stay quiet for fear of putting the head above the parapet and accused of being sexist.
I found his hand on my knee your honour so jail him for life trivialises rape. Women are their own worst enemies sometimes. Soon men will be afraid to say hello to a woman without a chaperone.
I thought the article was interesting until you referred to women as ‘harping on’ which I think belies your true attitude towards females speaking up about the extent of sexual harassment and violations that we have been routinely subject to.
As for this- ‘The majority of feminists believe that the west is a patriarchy that deliberately ensures that women are underrepresented in politics and higher status jobs and who, on average, earn less than men solely because of their gender.’
It’s not a question of feminists believing this- it is simply true. While the balance is slowly beginning to change, I am for example the first woman to go to university in my family. Women have been oppressed by the society we live in for thousands of years and while as I say things are beginning to change, the scars we bear from that will not heal overnight. It’s not simply a question of move along here nothing to see anymore.
The metoo campaign was designed to bring awareness to our male friends and family about the extent of sexual harassment that we have been subject to. We can state the facts but what can’t be said because our language is insufficient is the trauma that we have experienced because of that- our real inner experiences- pain, shame and rage. Belittling that in any way when we are trying to speak out about our experiences is gaslighting- it is undermining the reality of our experience.
Yes men have suffered under the social strictures that we have created, yes they have been made into work-horses and suffer from their own identity crisis…..but what the metoo campaign is about is a simple recognition of what women, en masse, have experienced. That deserves to be heard- really heard and acknowledged, before we can move on and address the many other injustices that our model of society perpetuates.
@Eoin Sheehy: Perhaps you are unaware of how hard women have had to fight to attain the basic rights that men have had as a given in our society- the right to education, the right to vote, the right to inheritance. These changes are very recent. There are still massive differences in equality of wages for example between men and women. Times are changing for sure but it is coming on the back of a very long history that can’t simply be airbrushed away. The attitude of male privilege is still very real in the world we live in and so much a part of the fabric of our society and even our language that it’s almost like the air that we breath. For example, as I said elsewhere, even our language is the product of patriarchal dominance- this means in everyday reality, for example, that we can speak about ‘events’, things which happened objectively, such as the metoo campaign, but our language for speaking about our subjective experience of those events is crude and in some way separated from the language that we use as a matter of course to describe the event itself. This essentially male domination over the objective world has almost whitewashed out of existence the reality of subjective internal experience- hence the need for psychotherapy and counselling as a discourse parallel to ‘normal’ ways of operating. That’s just one example of how deeply entrenched these ways of thinking run- and these ways of thinking and communicating were born out of a culture that was based on the oppression of the female. Things are changing but slowly. Education is the first step.
@Anne de Croix: I fully understand that women have had to fight for equality and rights in the past, shameful as it is.
However, given that women and men have equal rights, in the Western world at least, I’m not sure where this male privilege BS is coming from. Women have privilege too, but don’t let that get in your way of your anti-men narrative.
There is no gender pay gap. There is an earnings pay gap. It never ceases to amaze me how people still buy into this. If you took the time to research facts and studies, rather than opinion pieces on The Guardian for example, you will find why men earn more than women. Not paid more. Earn more.
It’s not an anti-men narrative. It’s spelling out the reality of the experience of being a woman. Men earn more because the system is naturally tilted towards men but hey, don’t let that stand in the way of your anti-women narrative ;)
@Anne de Croix: “There are still massive differences in equality of wages for example between men and women”. No, there aren’t. If you’re going to claim inequality at least start with facts.As for voting rights. You are aware that the majority of males couldn’t vote either up to little over 100 year ago, right? You do know it was only landowners that could vote, right? You do know that the cat majority of people didn’t own their own homes then too, right?
Also, your commentary typically negates the hurdles that women still face- bear in mind that the current President of the United States publicly boasted that his wealth gives him the power to get away with sexually harassing women- grabbing them by the pussy and doing whatever he wants with them- the fact that this is accepted as in any way ‘normal’ or acceptable behaviour shows just how far society still has to go before women are treated in a properly respectful way.
@Anne de Croix: I’ll answer that for you, Anne. Women receive lesser sentences for the same crimes, more women are attending 3rd level now than men (although men have closed the gap dramatically since the crash as they turned away from trades due to lack of job prospects), it’s established and common knowledge women do far better in family law cases, you live longer, you earn more between the ages of 22-44 than men, issues that affect women completely dominate the media, government and social policy too. In all the key areas of life – Health, Law, Education, and last but certainly not least – Family, women simply by being women, do better. Women in Ireland today between the ages of 22-44 are the most privileged people to have ever lived in this country.There’s no-one can dispute that. Open your bloody eyes woman.
@Luke Moore: It is disheartening for everyone when men dismiss the reality of the blatant misogyny at the heart of our society. I do consider it a ‘real issue’ when the President of the United States can openly brag about sexually harassing women. The fact that we have clean water and proper medical care doesn’t mean that we have no right to speak up about injustice when we see it- in fact I think our position of relative privilege makes speaking out a moral imperative for ourselves and for all the other women on the global stage who have no voice. Your rather patronising dismissal of the sexual harassment and violations that the women around you have routinely experienced is unfortunate but symptomatic of these deeper social issues.
@Veronica: who’s calling who names? You’re seeing things that are not there. Kind of like in your counter arguments.
In fact, making assumptions about the size of our genitals is pretty derogatory and the epitome of resorting to insult having run out of credibility.
Another case of female privilege. I wouldn’t dare comment on your body as there would be uproar and accusations of misogyny.
And I have the common sense and emotional intelligence to know it’s not an appropriate thing to comment on.
@Anne de Croix: I’m with you to a point, but I think you fly past that point and go on to demonstrate what is at issue in this article. Your analysis of the gender gap completely fails to factor in intersectionality, i.e. that different women in different parts of the world, and at different socioeconomic levels, experience discrimination differently. Your continued reference to Trump’s remarks on women underscore this point: That is not “our culture” that is an issue with certain sectors of “American” culture perhaps, but we all know now that many voters were more “anti-hilary” than “pro-trump”, and not just because she’s a woman. In “our culture” Trump’s remarks were openly and robustly deplored. There was not one single commentator closer to home that actually thought they were okay. In fact we were concerned he’d loose the election because of them.
You wear your condescension like a tired old thread-bare suit of armour. Throw it away as an obstacle to real communication because, honestly, that mode of being is no longer working. It is outdated, shabby and juvenile. Just let it go.
So men should finish the job of emasculation started by feminism.
Would you like everyone to be women? Or shall we all change gender right now? What do you suggest, surgery or transvestism?
So many ways to rid the world of rapey men. And then you’d find some other group to blame for your own perceived victimhood
@Anne de Croix: ‘bear in mind that the current President of the United States publicly boasted that his wealth gives him the power to get away with sexually harassing women’
And all men are responsible for that dregs remarks? An orange dyed loon that looks like Greenback from DM
@Anne de Croix: They can’t help but show their ignorance. Then when they are called out on it they resort to insults. You are correct in your arguments and well said.
@Anne de Croix: That wasn’t patriarchy, that was due to family circumstances. My grandmother who came from a well-to-do family (unfortunately the money didn’t last) were able to afford to support her in college and she was the first woman in Ireland to gain an honours degree in I think Latin and Maths back in the 1930s. My own mother, didn’t get to go to third level but that was due to family circumstances and not society.
@Anne de Croix: History is littered with injustices. I’m sure many a young man thought about male privilege when they were in a trench somewhere on a battlefield getting blown to smithereens. Ah yes I remember well the Feminists bleating on about the injustice of it all. The rights of women were not fought for by women alone, but don’t let that cloud you narrative.
@Anne de Croix:
“Women have been oppressed by the society we live in for thousands of years …”.
That’s a dogma of feminist faith which is untrue. The difference that mattered was economic class. Within each class men had generally had political and inheritance rights, but older women (mothers) had de facto share in those.
There is a lot of ‘mining the past’ for victimhood involved in feminism.
The issue for everybody is the disastrously low birthrates in most of Europe. The social duty to have children and a least maintain the population is greater than and hand-wringing over gender pay-gaps and glass ceilings.
@Anne de Croix: Stop harping on with your nonsense ” The President of the United States bragging about harassing women. He was not the President of the U.S. at the time. You need to get real. The fact is men and boys talk like that, as a woman myself i know that girls and women also talk like that. Its just talk, get over yourself and stop trying to be a victim, just because you are female.The world has gone mad.
hmm , an obstacle to real communication ??? There are plenty of fair minded normal blokes who honestly couldn’t actually be bothered trying to ‘overcome the obstacles to real communication’ as you put it….because your attitude comes across as being a bit feminazi …you seem to think that the ‘all men are ba@tards’ narrative is fine without seeing it as being equally as sexist as the language and behaviour that feminists constantly use when accusing men of being sexist .Ironic really. Also there are many intelligent fair-minded blokes who rather than engage in a heavyweight narrative on feminism will use humour or irrelevant throwaway comments – there is nothing wrong with this – you need to lighted up a bit lady the whole world isn’t going around so uptight and permanently outraged – the mode of being is no longer working ??????????? would you ever listen to yourself – seriously lighten up life is for living.
@Eoin Sheehy: an example for you. My career guidance teacher told me not to go to university as career in nursing was best for women. She told my sister the same thing. There was no acknowledgement of our abilities or academic strengths. This was in the 1990s btw. I went to university and have a lovely career now- not nursing, neither does my sister!
@Anne de Croix: The current President of our local university, who happens to be a man, was the first member of his family to go to University. He has’nt blamed the matriarchy for this ….yet..
@EillieEs: could be a number of reasons, mass brainwashing, self hatred, or perhaps that it’s what their paymasters want as part of a bigger agenda. He who pays the Piper, calls the tune.
@Bairéid Rísteard: That is absolute crap. Give me an example of where this is happening. Perhaps you are noticing a bit more diversity, which is not a bad thing as it’s more representative. There certainly are issues with ‘msm’, as you call it, but you clearly adhere to Trumpisim. There are issues in the media with advertisers, media pluralism etc. Read ‘Manufacturing Consent’ by Noam Chomsky to understand the issues with the media.
An example would be a recent New York Times article which alleged that 90% of women had been the victims of sexual harassment and linked to a Cosmopolitan poll which included being asked on a date in the list of sexual offenses.
@Bairéid Rísteard: That’s the pot calling the kettle black, you moron. I’ll give you an example of media bias if you like. On average the media are 449% more likely to report Islamic extremism than others forms. I know you and your alt-right buddies will like that. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/01/manhattan-terror-double-standards
@Darren Gray: make sure you get your trump and right wing digs in there while you can. important that anyone reading this sees the balanced comments of others mingled with your rubbish.
This men versus women dialogue exists in a social meeja bubble and bears little relation to my workplace or my social life. Navel gazing introspection on supposed battle lines between the sexes can be a useful cop-out if your own significant relationship is in trouble or is non existent.
@Veronica: I have to say that I think yourself and gipb would hit it off very well together. Sure there’s be some disagreements but nothing that couldn’t be overcome.
@neilo: A change of name is not a change of identity. I have been perfectly consistent in my views, despite having several accounts. If you want to discuss any of my views then I’m here for you. If you’re just going to have lame, little digs then don’t waste my time. I’d rather have some nice chats with Ronny, at least she is interesting, unlike your boring self
This article seems at the outset to be reasonable then slides into the same sly arguments to shut down the voices calling out appalling behaviour. Most people do not believe that ” every man is a potential sex offender” or that it is wrong for a man to look at a woman. It is however illegal to sexually harass a work colleague. The Smurfette effect as described by Reese Witherspoon- being the only woman, or one of the very few, on a film set – leads to a testosterone soaked environment where the normal balancing influence of different view points is missing. Similar situation in Irish radio.
@carodeer: “testosterone soaked environment”. Okay you lost me. The variance of views amongst women is equal to the variance of views amongst men. We don’t turn into feral apes when there’s no women around.
@carodeer: When you say it’s illegal to sexually harass a work colleague, I often wondered what EXACTLY constituted sexual harrassment. This is what I found..
Under the Employment Equality Acts 1998-2015, you are entitled to bring a claim to the Workplace Relations Commission and your employer may be obliged to pay you compensation if you are harassed by reason of your:
Gender
Civil status
Family status, for example, as a parent of a child
Sexual orientation
Age
Disability
Race
Religious belief
Membership of the Traveller community
Harassment based on any of the above grounds is a form of discrimination in relation to conditions of employment. The Employment Equality Acts 1998-2015 define harassment as “unwanted conduct” which is related to any of the 9 discriminatory grounds above. Sexual harassment is any form of “unwanted verbal, non-verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature”. In both cases it is defined as conduct which “has the purpose or effect of violating a person’s dignity and creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for the person” and it is prohibited under the Acts.
The “unwanted conduct” includes spoken words, gestures or the production and display of written words, pictures and other material. This includes offensive gestures or facial expressions, unwelcome and offensive calendars, screen-savers, e-mails and any other offensive material.
OK, so just how can anyone know if a particular facial expression is unwanted, or if one person will take offence? It leaves it so that anyone from any particular group can take offence, even when none is meant, to anything that is said and done. So we are now at a point where the “law” has become a matter of opinion rather than a matter of fact. Where one group can be punished because of an outcry by another group.
@neilo: My definition would require people to have a slightly thicker skin, and to be able to firmly tell someone directly when they are feeling “uncomfortable”.
‘The majority of feminists believe that the west is a patriarchy that deliberately ensures that women are underrepresented in politics and higher status jobs and who, on average, earn less than men solely because of their gender. They also assert that we live in a ‘rape culture’ that both encourages sexual violence against women and either blames women or believes they are complicit in being assaulted.’
The Daily Mail or the report by the World Economic Forum that the article cites? Your petty goading is a very low grade form of communication by the way.
I’m pretty sure that A.R. Devine won’t receive rape threats and death threats for posting this article. He can dismiss the concept of ‘rape culture’ because it has never affected him.
It has never affected me either, but it has certainly affected the women I know.
‘Wouldn’t the most egalitarian and genuinely progressive way of relating to another human being’s suffering or unpleasant experience be just to listen and empathise or sympathise with them as an individual, regardless of their gender or any other arbitrary aspect of their identity?’—ignores the ways our society is set up and the power relations within it.
@Brendan O’Brien: I was almost abducted by 2 men at the age of 8. You dont know anything about me. Lots of young boys as well as young girls were abused by adults in Ireland. I acknowledge all of this but still believe that most of society deplore it as they do the abuse of women and hence we dont live in a rape culture.
@AR Devine: Deploring it is no good. It needs to be defused. Read Fintan O’Toole’s article in the Irish Times the other day for an example of how girls and women are routinely pressurized by men and their space is invaded. This is something that you and I do not have to put up with, notwithstanding your bad childhood experience. It needs to change.
Debate, especially online, has become very polarized. Well-meaning men are often dismissed by women when they offer opinions. That is unfortunate, but understandable when women commenters are subjected to such condescension and abuse in so many online places.
Why are the comments sections on this website completely dominated by (right-wing) men, do you think?
@Brendan O’Brien: you don’t think there are quite a few anti-male commentators on here too? read some of veronicas comments. in the past she has accused all males of being potential rapists and abusers.
@gjpb: Veronica is so extreme that I would consider it likely that she is one of those right wing males who have created a bigoted, hate filled, uber feminist character in order to discredit genuine feminism.
@neilo: I don’t have a problem with equality. I wouldn’t want anything less for anyone regardless of their gender, race, etc.
it’s not just on here that feminists are playing the constant victim. watch any tv programme and it’s full of cries of gender pay gap, etc which just don’t exist. speak to any young woman now and the majority will feel that they are victimised.
@neilo: I agree that there are no parental rights for men.
This impacts men as much as women.
However even if we were to allow parental leave be split, I can bet u the majority of mothers would still want the maternity leave
Are you seriously citing a ‘wiki’ link, and you have the neck to criticise a 1st wave feminist who hasn’t bought into the third/fourth wave whinging bo[[ox.
She was right on gamergate. She; Greer, and Paglia knock the weepy, ‘protect us’ feminists into a cocked hat. You will realise this one day.
Shortly before his death, the late Gerry Ryan from RTE, highlighted the rise of the anti-men campaign on his program. At the time it was controversial and many ridiculed his opinion. I wonder how he would react to the world we live in today? I have often said that the majority of crime is carried out by men and this opinion is held out to be verified by our gender quota in jails throughout the world. Yes men should be held accountable for crimes that they commit. Yes the world has traditionally been biased towards men and this was and is wrong. However, if the pendulum swings too far the other direction, then I fear that we are going to see equally wrong inequality in our society. Evidence of this can be seen in our judicial system today where mothers (in general) get ownership of their children and the father is left with scraps from the table regarding having a loving relationship with their children.
Last month an Irish man faced imprisionment in Abu Dabi for grazing his hand across another man’s hip in a crowded bar. We westerners thought that the punishment did not fit the alleged crime as it was too barbaric. So if I put my hand on the knee of a woman fifteen years ago, am I liable to face a prison sentence? Hmmmm, I think that we need bigger prisons because the male population heading to prison could soon be pushing to 100%
This is going TOO far altogether.
I shook the female bank managers hand the other day and afterwards thought should I have done that!
Calm down now for fecks sake.
@gerry fallon: Those trying to ridicule this campaign by deliberately posing stupid scenarios that have nothing to do with sexual harassment, have their own agenda,clear as day. The status quo ante suits a certain cohort and they will rage against any change.This article postured on the blandest of middle ground,please nothing extreme!!
@AR Devine: Yeah I’ve read some of your other stuff. I think that myself and yourself are pretty much exactly lined up, politically. I meant if you wrote an honest article on here, the triggerings would be immense, though overall response would obviously be positive. Keep it up man. Keep at the journal to get your voice out and break this narrative hegemony
I am an elderly white male,I am unsteady on my feet ,my ailments are numerous,the pack has singled me out for extinction ,they sharply nip at my ankles ,once I dominated ,and had the pick of the breeding females ,now the younger members both male and female harass me constantly,soon I will be no longer be able to keep up with the pack ,and will be left behind,vulnerable to more powerful predators.and in time will be a scattering of bones left on the plain.
@Cultural Marxist: It sounds like he’s a guy worth following. Especially as I’m almost 100% sure what you said isn’t true and because you’re the type of person who thinks Marxism is a good idea despite the entire history of the 20th century.
@Cultural Marxist: Please cite a single example of racism from my blog? You wont find it because I oppose racism. I am opposed to Islamic extremism & sharia law so are many Muslims.
@Cultural Marxist: Standard Marxist tactic. Don’t debate the content, cast aspersions against the author and demand he be silenced. All in the name of tolerance.
@Chemical Brothers: the men who reply to me on the journal are usually simpletons. I don’t think you’re much different to the usual crowd to like to have a go at me.
If it pleases your ego to me rude to me, by all accounts go right ahead. Expose your inner self.
@gjpb: lol at you bringing up “transphobia” as if it’s some sort of stain on my character. You’ve labelled me a transphobic for knowing that females are the oppressed class under patriarchy. You’re really reaching.
@Veronica: that’s so funny. The fact you can’t see your own bigotry is truly awe-inspiring. Your response to a perfectly reasonable article is to say men shouldn’t be allowed to air their sexual assault stories under the #MeToo hashtag. Are you honestly going to tell a victim of sexual assault who’s sharing one of the worst experiences of their life to “F off and get your own hashtag” simply because they’re male. You are truly despicable if that’s the case. You’re just highlighting why people see these movements as the latest in trendy virtue signalling; you’re acting like your favourite band has just become mainstream and all the people who like them now aren’t “real fans”.
@Veronica: “any group in protest of its oppression by another group is within its rights to demand that the oppressor not be included in its organizing.”
Doesnt this then defeat any chance of growth or development? A group of women who can oppose a male view point IS equal to a group of men opposing a female view point – no?
Both genders experience harassment and abuse and for men it is so much harder to be open about it with nowhere near the same level of support.
The purpose of the #metoo campaign is to get people talking about it. It’s about making people accountable for their actions as opposed to castigating all men as abusive offenders from the harassment end to the sexual assault/rape end.
I agree with the author that it’s shitty people who are the problem. What I can’t abide though is the rhetoric that women should consider what they wear, where they go and when. Good piece..
@Rachel Durack Murray: to your last point I think there’s a legitimate argument that everyone should take certain precautions. If your house is robbed because you leave your front door unlocked the guards aren’t blaming you when they warn others to keep their doors locked. There are certain behaviours that are riskier than others. The miscommunication comes when this gets conflated with blame. Of course that doesn’t mean there aren’t those that do blame but it’s helpful to not automatically assume it.
What I find interesting is that many of the males commenting here are the same ones who were questioning how a parent could let their 14 year-old son be around a 26 year old male or how someone could let their teenage daughter go out after dark or why a woman let herself get drunk when there were men around. The constant challenging of victim behaviour is predicated on the assumption that all men are potential rapists. I don’t have that assumption. I don’t automatically see danger where men are. Maybe I’m naive
@Anne Marie Devlin: the constant challenging of victim behavior is not predicated in the assumption all men are anything / it is just common sense to question the actions and give advice of vulnerable situations / people for generations go out to pubs and events to socialize and meet new people new partners wow even complete strangers for sex , and these are usually alcohol fueled situations / it is common sense to warn / give Advice / how care needs to given when letting 14 years olds or vulnerable young women or drunk students whatever into these environments….. not that all men are rapists but it’s that there are a lot of dangers and things can go wrong / men shouldn’t be always labeled when trying to give common sense advice
@Anne Marie Devlin:
Firstly I think you left out the word alleged and it sounds as though you are extremely naive it is a violent and dangerous world we live in, secondly allowing a 14 year old out alone overnight in the company of adults sounds like neglect or perhaps Mammy saw the dollar sign, thirdly why immediately adopt the language of a victim by saying ”a woman who let herself get drunk” or perhaps there is a deeper issue with alcohol?
The #metoo campaign points out that every woman you know above (some below) the age of 14 has been sexually harassed or assaulted at some point in their life. Every woman. Wether it be sexual innuendo talk or sexual advances at work in the office – it is a professional setting, being groped in a crowed bar or night club, having to endure verbal abuse after refusing a drink, dance or to talk to man in a bar, the street, at the bus stop. we experience what appears to be entitlement to our attention, time and ultimately us. We are not denying that men suffer and are victims of sexual harassment or abuse and suffer the same trauma of the incidents. Women have to endure toxic male behaviour on a daily basis. In a society where female victims are still asked why they were out late, what they were wearing and male perpetrators actions are mitigated due their social standing in society, such as a promising Olympic swimmer or national journalist.
@Wendie O’Toole: you make an excellent point clearly and cogently.
There is a prevalence of a sexually entitled, insistent, persistent and unwanted attention from some men, a minority, towards some women in Irish society.
My impression, only an impression, is that the main culprits are generally older men either in no relationships or in problematical relationships combined with an unhealthy sense of grievance towards women. They compensate by inappropriate and intrusive conduct, not getting the message that the attention is unwanted.
I have noticed that younger men, as a generality, seem less likely to engage is this conduct and seem more copped on or sensitive to female reactions.
What may start as banter can slide into material which make some women uncomfortable and even repulsed by the statements and by the motives.
The situation can be avoided by men recognising that women are autonomous people, entitled to their own feelings, their own sense of dignity, their entitlement not to be berbally or physically molested, their absolute to be treated with dignity, respect and reasonable decorum.
It is my impression that most men behave well but the significant majority make a very considerable nuisance of themselves elves. I have noticed that other men are now more likely to dissociate themselves from men acting the maggot and worse, they may even openly criticise them or mark their opposition.
Women may help by being more vocal, decisive and assertive in yellow carding unwanted attention or behaviour as soon as it starts, although that always risks an aggressive and resentful response. Such men can’t be appeased or humoured. They have to be stood up to, even at the risk of an unpleasant response.
@Fiona deFreyne: Unfortunately the kind of unpleasant men you talk about exist and there are too many of them. I dont deny that. My criticism is when some feminists start using generalising language about men as I don’t think it is conducive to sorting out the problem as generalising language tends to alienate people.
@DaisyChainsaw: How is being critical of some aspects of feminism ‘anti-women drivel’?
Im a gender egalitarian I abhor sexism. Please quote one passage from my article that is anti-women? I criticise some men in that article too.
@AR Devine: feminism “is” gender egalitarianism. I’m not sure what the proper word is for what you describe, misandry perhaps, but you undermine the (still very necessary) role of feminism in society when you butcher the term so.
@Robert Rusk: For some feminists it still is about equality but the more extreme wing have hijacked the movement that in the past I would have supported in many regards.
@neilo: I wouldn’t go that far. I think he is actually trying to be reasonable, and is quite reasonable to a certain extent, but he’s allowed the hysteria of online discourse to frame his discussion, rather than stepping back and looking at it holistically. There is a kernel of truth to what he’s saying but the shell he’s wrapped it in makes it seem more unappealing than it actually is.
“Too much of the debate in the mainstream and social media around gender issues is dictated by a strain of feminism that views masculinity as inherently problematic.” A very well-made point and a good piece of writing.
@DaisyChainsaw: As is your appearance on such an article. All we need now is the other man hating feminazi Deborah Behan to appear and we’ll be all set.
@Arnold Lane: and all we need is you and a few other buffoons to continue spreading your rubbish around too. You guys seriously need to get a hobby. All I ever see is you (plural) banging on on articles about woman, racism, and Islam. Like ffs get some positivity and get off the computer once in a while. If I can manage it surely you can too.
@neilo: His mammy either didn’t breastfeed him or breastfed for too long… Either way, Arnold blames women for all his shortcomings. His many, many shortcomings.
@DaisyChainsaw: Where have I blamed women for anything? See you have nothing so you have to make shit up. You just hate your hypocrisy being pointed out you.
@Fiona deFreyne: Well then you haven’t done any research in Ireland. You’re wrong. Prefessor Peter McKeown at Galway University carried out such research and found the same rates for men and women.
Well done Journal, you have finally managed to publish the least coherent article of all time. Paper Tiger targets, Strawmen arguments, attempts to frame in the third person abandoned for rambling tangential first person rants by third paragraph, ludicrous and frequently self-contradictory whataboutery throughout. As a man I’m ashamed of this article not just because it was written by a man but because its one of the dumbest things I’ve read in a long time and I frequently read Donald Trumps Twitter feed so that’s really some achievement.
Usually these opinion articles are a load of tripe, but this one made some very good points.
The fact now that if a man is caught looking at a woman he’s a sexual predator or rapist, is purely radical feminist crap which goes hand in hand with this precious snowflake millennial mindset of pure offense to everything and anything that doesn’t fit their agenda.
Women are not denying that man are also victims of many things. Men have hard lives and that their lives are difficult – but many of these injustices are experienced, but not because they are male.
I apparently grew up in a different era and
I was always taught by my parents to watch out for sleaze bags . Decent men do not engage in this type of behavior in my view. But I did happen on a few that did and I knew what to do to handle it at 14 years of age. Teenagers need to be taught how to tell these pests to take a hike, most of them are cowards anyway.
One thing I do remember is the fact that when inappropriate sexual advances were made to me when I was a teenager I have never been able to forget what happened . This is how I knew that it was so wrong and could have been much worse if I had not managed to handle the situation.
This is what is happening now to most of the people who are posting their stories on #metoo.
While I believe your article has some merit, I very strongly disagree with how you use the word “feminist”. I believe you also overstate the extent to which the more extreme feminists control the narrative of public discourse. Some rightly angry people are having their say right now and should be given leeway for that. It’s not the diminuition of masculinity everyone makes it out to be, though perhaps some reimaginings of what it means “to be a man” are in order.
To be honest I think most people know it’s a few feminazi’s in the media ,most men don’t give a ****. If the feminazi’s just stopped making all women victims and men the perpetrators I think they might get somewhere.
@Paul Redmond: It’s also important to distinguish between “feminazi” and an actual feminist.
Feminazi = stupid first world problems like “I want to walk topless down the street because men can do it.” Making victims of themselves because breasts are sexualised. Well doh.
If you take the fundamentals of what a feminist is, most people are feminist whether male or female because they believe in these things too. They want to see men and women as equals in society and the workplace and here in Ireland, we are. There have been some exceptions highlighted about women in certain jobs being paid less, but generally, I think we get paid about the same.
Right now, women in the middle east and the third world are still suffering terribly just because they were born the wrong sex. Being beaten, raped, not allowed an education. If a woman gets raped, then she is often cast out by her own family because it had to be her fault. It’s gross. THIS is what true feminism is about, helping women who need help. Wouldn’t you also like to see them being treated as human beings?
Look beyond the militant morons and you will see all the good work that is being done by women’s organisations around the world.
@Tom McHugh: as I pointed out yesterday. The enasculation of men has made them less attractive to the stronger women. This social engineering can only come to a bad end. Women are not men and vice versa. The firmation of MWV’s is much more dangerous to civilisation than WMD’s.
Hi AR. I think with more of a factually based argument, this article would have been stronger. For example, you could have drawn on the fact that the male suicide rate is incredibly high in Ireland. As is the homelessness rate. Men end up on the streets more so than women because fathers are not fairly represented the same as mothers in our state and would (hardly) ever get the house and kids. However, to blandly say that men suffer the same domestic violence as women is just simply untrue. In Argentina, the court system created the term ‘femicide’ because of the sheer magnitude of violence against women. In Brazil, a woman is raped every 11 seconds. I understand you’re focusing on the West. Also, it’s a dangerous thing to put a group of people under the same mindset. I don’t think a woman not feeling comfortable at a man staring at her when she’s alone on a train is victimizing herself. The #metoo campaign are undeniably not talking about a time a man stared weirdly. Sexual assault (although a heavy word) is commonplace. Anyway, fair dues for having the balls to write an article that some men wouldn’t be comfortable doing.
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