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Updated at 6.10pm
THE HEAD OF the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform says there is still an “unacceptable” level of absenteeism in the state sector.
The department’s secretary-general, Robert Watt, today told the Oireachtas Public Accounts Committee that in 2013 public servants took an average 9.5 sick days each for the 12-month period, which meant 4.3% of all working hours were lost to absenteeism.
“There remains a significant leadership and management challenge in tackling absenteeism across the public service,” he said.
The department today published figures which put the estimated cost of sick leave in the public service at €370 million through lost work hours in 2013.
The figures also showed the rate of absenteeism was significantly higher among civil servants and many major government departments than for front-line staff like gardaí, teachers and health workers.
The average number of days lost across the civil service in 2013 was 10.3, with the highest figure for any department of more than 200 staff coming in the Property Registration Authority, where the rate was 13.96 days a year.
That was followed by the prison service (12.62), Department of Social Protection (12.5) and Central Statistics Office (12.36).
The rates of absenteeism in Revenue (10.7) and the Department of Education and Skills (10.41) were also above the civil-service average.
Meanwhile, the figure for civilians working with An Garda Síochána was 12.4, which was above the rates for gardaí (10.7), health workers (10.6), Defence Forces (7.4), post-primary teachers (6.5) and primary-school teachers (5.9).
The lowest rates of absenteeism were in the Department of Finance (4.26) and Ordnance Survey Ireland (5.32).
Absenteeism ‘not acceptable’
In comparison to the public-service figures, a recent survey of 452 companies from business group Ibec found the average number of sick days per worker in the private sector was 5.5 a year – or 2.35% of their total hours.
Watt said he expected to see a fall in public-sector absenteeism after the introduction of a new sick-leave system last year which effectively halved entitlements.
The number of uncertified sick days public servants can take over a two-year period was cut from 14 to seven days under the scheme.
While (the 2013) figures do not reveal the impact of last year’s sick-leave reforms it is clear that this level of absenteeism is not acceptable,” he said.
‘Smaller, less expensive’
But Watt said he oversaw a public service which was now much leaner than before the financial crisis after a 10% reduction in staff numbers and 20% cut in the government pay bill.
The changes included a successful ”quango cull” of 181 government and semi-state bodies.
“The public service is now smaller and a good deal less expensive than it was in 2009, and its work in continuing to deliver essential services as budgets and staff numbers are reduced I think deserves to be acknowledged,” Watt said.
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I’m public sector worker and I’ve ever had a sick day. I’m 8 years in my current job. I hate seeing people abuse the system and go sick regularly or long term when they could easily be at work. These should be clamped down on to protect the genuine cases where people are sick or injured.
I would have thought it stands to reason that people working in hospitals or schools would be sick more often due to their coming into contact with so many people every day. Chances are you are going to get sick much more often than someone in an office job not dealing with the public.
Or there’s every chance you’ll build up a stronger immune system and not be sick as often.
So what if people in the public sector take a few sick days? It’s not doing me any harm and don’t start that shite about it costing the tax payer money. Politicians, councillors and senior civil servants waste millions on junkets and expenses and nothing is done about them. Are people outraged or just jealous?
If you look at the civil service, the age profile is very old. Huge numbers of people in their late 40′s and 50′s. This is the age that people get serious illness – heart attack, cancer, stroke etc. there will be a higher than average long term sick leave associated with this. This bumps up the average significantly. No excuse foe people who take a few days every couple of months or so but I would be curious about the figures with long term sickness removed.
40 and 50 is not very old.
Jason – agreed – but my point is that if a disproportionate per cent of your staff are in that age bracket then you can expect that a disproportionate per cent will unfortunately suffer serious illness and disproportionate sick leave as a result.
I wonder if it was un-paid sick pay would the absenteeism numbers change.
And if one of them was suspended tomorrow you’d be the first on the picket line so shut up talking rubbish. You lot in the public service or self service are all the same. Lazy n over protected.
Oh shut up. Is that really the best you can come up with?
Public sector worker here, haven’t taken a sick day in two years (I haven’t been sick enough so it stands to reason) I think it’s sickening (excuse pun) when I hear these statistics as I do not take my job and the work that I do for granted. I’ve seen several pay cuts, cuts to my leave plus a huge increase in my workload but I still do not think that it is excusable to take sick days when not truly unwell. It’s a culture that’s rotten within the PS
Are you sickened by the statistic or by watching your colleagues actually take the sick leave? Theres good and bad everywhere. In the private sector that behaviour would be dealt with, youre not able to do anything about it.
I work in the Prison Service and if I’m out sick my days off are included as sick days. Form example if I go to the doctor on a Monday and he certifies me as sick until the following Monday, I will be recorded as being sick for seven days even though I may have only been rostered for four days. I don’t know of any private sector job where you are counted as being off sick on days you’re not supposed to be in work anyway. This is one way in which the figures can be skewed.
You work in a Prison and you have an itchy anus, oh my…. :/
Poor pet are you ok? Do you need some time off?
Ivan, you are a member of one of the most powerful unions in the country. Why does your union tolerate this? get on to them.
Most private sector jobs don’t have any sick pay,so your point is redundant
Getting some popcorn for this one…..
is somebody getting paid to copy and paste this information?
Nurses get 10 duvet days a year paid on top of holidays. Why?
Why does a dog lick his balls?
Because he can.
What do you call a dog with no tongue?
Because there nurses?
Because he can!
Private sector worker??
Dirty bollox!
Two guys walking down the street. Passing a dog licking his bollox one guy says “I wish I could do that” His buddy says “Throw him a bone he might let ya”
do they get bonus?
Do they get Heath insurances paid for them
All they get is abuse from drunks and drug head
IBEC are a joke they think people over 75.5 k should be getting more tax breaks
Well the employees think it’s acceptable and always have, have chatw with a few in my time and the big decision for them was ah will I ring in sick tomorrow or not, nothing changed
First I heard of it please inform us where that lovely bit of info came from..would love a duvet day
I’m a nurse and have never had a duvet day in my life!
Any research and links to back up your duvet day comment?
Must speak to my manager about this one I must be due quite a few duvet days!!!such rubbish in fairness!!u do realise minding sick people all the time does leave a person susceptible to a degree of sickness too!! Not to mention moving and handling of “heavy” clients,stress,long hours …
Duvet days for nurses Robert, eh no, we don’t! Don’t know where you got your information from, but it’s wrong. I’m a nurse, so I should know!
Anne-Marie try reading my comment again.
I’m aware there are no duvet days for nurses.
I was responding to Richard Cynical.
I’ll say it again because you obviously missed it – I’m a nurse.
Keep your hair on Roy Madden. I was replying to Richard Cynical too. Read my reply again, I used the word ‘Richard’. I actually agree with you.
Read my first reply, actually typed Robert….
I’m a neonatal nurse. If I have a cold/flu (which most people have a few of over the winter months) do you want me looking after your sick/premature baby? Coughing, sneezing and sniffling next to their incubator for 12 hours!! I’m sure I would be ok to sit at a desk all day but sometimes it’s completely necessary for nurses to ring in”sick” so as to protect their patients.
That’s understandable Olivia, bringing an infectious disease into any area with immunocompromised patients would be obviously detrimental to their care but you are assuming the rest of us are behind desks. I do a lot of the lab work that you require to treat your tiny patients, I personally do not want to see a delay on their care on my conscience just so I can take a ‘sick’ day. People get sick and they are entitled to rest and stay at home. Unfortunately, for you, me and the others in the PS it’s those who take the mick and it results in these crappy headlines. Keep up the good work btw it must be incredibly tough dealing with such tiny babies…I’d be a blubbering mess!
My partner works in a hospital 10 people out sick last Monday in her department alone. Ireland vs England last Sunday! coincidence?
Or…working in a hospital exposes a person to a lot more illnesses (like the flu or the vomiting bug) and results in staff missing days because of it.
Ha. Ok only for the fools that posted there pictures on Facebook I’d agree.
But it is weird how the exposure always cause them to miss Mondays. Funny that.
I don’t believe that Vinny because you would have said that in your initial post. And doctor, nurses and Gardai don’t work Monday to Friday as far as I know. They work shift so could actually have certain Mondays off anyway so that doesn’t make sense.
Andreas a public servant then?
Bull***t
Could be an outpatient ward.
When calling people ‘fools’ Vinny, make sure you use the English language correctly…! Or use slang so dey don’t confuse der
No, I’m not actually but my friends Mam was a nurse when we were growing up and she was seriously assaulted by a patient suffering from mental health issues and had her nose and collar bone broken. I find people are very quick to criticise front line staff without realising the abuse many of them suffer on a weekly basis. I also know a Gard who was seriously injured when a stolen car rained into his (he was off duty at the time) and he was out of work for 20 months and then only fit for desk duty for another 11 months.
Wow… shock… they get paid their sick days… private companies don’t. .. how is this a revelation…
Many private companies do pay sick leave.
Lads what everyone seems to be missing is that most public service personnel have roles that put them in positions that expose them to more chance of being assaulted in work. I’m not saying no one ever takes the mick a very few do. Also a lot of public service jobs would be filled by people with disabilities and health issues (compared to public companies) that just wouldn’t hire these people because they would miss a lot of days. Don’t over simplify things lads.
Don’t oversimply? Like you did? Most public service workers aren’t frontline workers.
That may be true Doc – but it would be nice if stories like this broke down such detail.
Just a thought. Maybe he should ask. Why is the level of sick leave “absenteeism ” so high. Also maybe he should also ask why there is also such high staff turnover. The easy answer is just the staff are just lazy.
There is loads of research both domestic and international that shows people who are unhappy in their work take more sick leave and are generally a lot less productive. Also these work place’s private or public sector will also have high staff turn over.
Not true at all the vast majority of public servants don’t interact with the public and work in offices.
There are dangers to those who deal with the public and it should be acknowledged.
I know PS who do treat sick days as extra holidays. To deny it is to be disingenuous but it isn’t all either
Ok now off out with you for a fag. You poor overworked downtrodden abused public servant.
Not if IBEC had their way
I agree Stephen, Gardai, Nurses Prison Officers are subjected to abuse of a high level on a constant basis. Teachers do get every cold and flu that enters a school or classroom. No doubt, some people milk the system, but the majority are responsible. Generally people on shift work suffer illness .
Very true. Take an example.. 2 workers, one has a debilitating illness eg cancer, the other hasn’t missed a day all year. In the prison service where rostered days off count as sick these two would have missed an average of 182.5 days each. You can skew a statistic any way you like. Teachers, firefighters, prison officers already on the brink of strike. This is a pr exercise to try to get private sector on the governments side before a series of industrial action in the public sector.
Most? Lol. Not even close to most.
If the rates were higher for nurses, teachers, and garda one would understand but desk staff?? Laughable.
@Stephen Brady. Nonsense. Just nonsense.
Unhappy? Then leave.
Getting paid? Then turn up!!!
Well said Ciaran Farrell! Hitting the nail firmly on the head!!
A PS worker here with 4 sicks days over a 5 year period. Husband, a private sector worker, has had double that over the same period. People get sick and they are entitled to take time off. Nothing worse than sitting next to somebody coughing up their lungs and trying their best to infect everyone in the office. Take a day off, you don’t have to prove you are some invincible warrior and, honestly, noone cares.
Sick leave abuse happens in both private and public sector. Long term sick leave abuse also happens in both sectors.
Very well said. It’s not a bloody competition like some eejits on here seem to think
I don’t think that the private sector have as many paid sick days as public sector so the abuse may not be as widespread
Public sector Nurse here. I can only speak for my own profession but the role of a Registered Nurse involves many physical tasks such as turning, moving, washing and generally assisting adults (many of whom are overweight and owing to their illness sometimes uncooperative). This can lead to back pain and other injuries.
Staffing levels on general medical/surgical floors have reduced in recent years due to budget constraints, this has led to emotional and physical burn out for many Nurses.
I’d be very interested to see the professional breakdown of these absenteeism rates. Any of my colleagues would be loath to call in sick due to feeling guilty for leaving their unit short staffed. I myself have called on sick once in four years and it was only for one day, not that I should have to defend myself to anyone!
The government began a concerted campaign at the beginning of the current recession to turn the public against public sector workers so that they would have support for the massive pay cuts and pension levies they imposed on them. Shatter tried to turn us against the Gardai. Reilly did the same for doctors and the rest of the health service. The public sector just kept on working while those responsible for the recession got away scot free.
Stop listening to the spin and look at the motivations.
Expect plenty more news articles like this,the public sector plebs have to fight the private sector plebs and vice versa they haven’t had a spat for a while now so let’s keep them fighting amongst each other and divided while we go about the business of government with them distracted squabbling .
Public sector workers take more sick days because they can.
Private sector workers don’t take more sick days, because they can’t.
The latter would happily take more if they were allowed, but enjoys the right to feel holier than thou about the situation.
The former would take less if they were not allowed, but would then enjoy feeling holier than thou if the tables were turned.
All just human nature in action.
Agreed. People do it because they can. In Holland their universal sick leave entitlement had to be suspended when it was discovered that EVERYBODY was taking their full entitlement every year.
Fair point neal
It’s not about feeling holier than thou, it’s about not getting fired. People don’t realize that private sector management treat any sick leave as unacceptable, justified or not.
As a special education teacher of almost 15 years I can see both sides of the argument. There are a number of people in my field that are there for shorter hours and longer holidays. However there are also people who are there for the benefit of the children in our care. I’m sure this is common in the private sector also! Over the last 5 years I have had testing for HIV, Hep B and numerous bites, torn ligament…. To name but a few. Yes I have had sick days over the course of my career, some years more than others. Over half of my sick days in the last four years have been as a result of assault at work. These are still classed as sick leave! If sick on a Friday and Monday, it’s 4 days. If end of term, holidays are included. Very black and white article, anyone who works in the public sector is aware that there is also a huge grey area that is undiscussed above!
Public servants take more sick days because they are given them.
It really is that simple.
Exactly. My company did away with paid sick days a few years ago, and since they did that everyone’s health has drastically improved…
Other news in – the sky is blue…
68% of all statistics are made up.
“Most of what you read online is false”.
- Abraham Lincoln.
8 out of 10 people know that.
“Internet was sooooo slow back then”
Billy the kid.
What does the other 56% say lol.
Skewed figures and feigned outrage.
We in the private sector don’t have time to be taking sick leave , too much to get done.
I am sure the private company you work for will put that on you headstone
” RIP Jp you never took a sick day”
Don’t worry , I still get my holidays. Got to hit Oz at Christmas for a month. It’s about the responsibility you have to show up for what you’re being paid to do!! Everyone gets sick at one time or another which is unavoidable but from once working in the public service years ago I can tell you the practice of abusing sick leave is rife. They see it as an extension of their holiday leave.
It ya know if a nurse has a cold or a sore throat that’s not a huge issue for normal day to day people. A theatre nurse or ICUS nurse could do a lot of damage going to work with minor afflictions. This stinks of PR as it does not state when sick leave is taken, and these reports never include how days off are counted as sick days .
Since January I’ve had to take 3.5 sick days. People get sick, what can you do? =\
Go to work?
I did and infected everybody else. And all I could do was sleep anyway so my being there was a waste =P
You went into work and slept, do you work in the vrt office in tallaght
They are all just faking to get the day off
The work ethic in the public sector is a disgrace they would not last a day in a real job.
What’s a “real” job?
One you have to actually do work at and turn up on time
A real job is a job in which you can be sacked for not performing.
So, the complete opposite of a public service job.
I get that is the prevailing thought of most but have you ever worked in the public sector? Just not sure how you know
I am not a public servant myself but worked in a number of offices with them. Not really much different to the private sector. Most noticeable thing is to get promoted is very difficult and complicated compared to private sector.
Does a civil servant even know what a KPI is
I believe they are a brand of salted peanuts.
So if I can show up on time and do a wee bit of work I too can somehow think I’m superior to others???…
Sounds easy.
I thought you’d perhaps give us an example, like how a Doctor wouldn’t last a day working in a Coffee shop or some other pathetic comparison.
Richard its a key performance indicator. Oh wait, Im in the Public Sector, should I not have known that?? Dont bleet about what you dont know.
I mean, why should a paramedic or Garda or Soldier or Airman or Sailor need 3 months off to recover from a slipped disc/stab wound/blunt force trauma to the head/PTSD/ etc etc
Where do you work Richard?
Richard works in a “real” job. He comes in early , leaves late, absolutely never slows down doing his job for idle chat or smoke breaks. He takes his exact allocated break times and not a second more. He’s never had a sick day , or came to work with a hangover . His work is above and beyond what’s expected and what he’s paid to do. He follows his KPI’s to the letter. He is the embodiment of what it means to be a Private sector worker that somehow knows for a fact that not one of the 250,000+ Public Sector workers could never meet his standards.
Sorry ross I don’t consider the guards army the fire brigade or ambulance drivers civil servants. Probably some of the hardest workers in the country
@richard
I don’t believe for a second you would get fired if you didn’t hit your target. If this is true your company would not be following employment law.
You might be happy with this but if true you are undermining basic workers rights.
I work for myself just incase you think I have some special worker protection.
Nice of your “real” job to allow you to spend your time posting on The Journal…… Which KPI does that fall under?
“The work ethic in the public sector is a disgrace they would not last a day in a real job.”
And then you go on to say …..
” I don’t consider the guards army the fire brigade or ambulance drivers civil servants. Probably some of the hardest workers in the country”
That’s because the’re not Civil Servants.. they’re the very Public Sector workers that you said wouldn’t last a day in a “real” job. Contradict yourself much?
Do you even know the difference between a Civil Servant and a Public Sector worker??
Youre saying we dont know what its like to work saturday or sunday?? Go away would ya. Try getting 20 euro for a 24hr shift and see how ya feel then buddy.
Sick of the criticism we get from the likes of you who dont actually understand life in the services and the crap we face.
@kal
Labour law is a joke. People lose their jobs a lot easier than anyone thinks in non public sector. I’m talking now about all the people not protected who are on €8.65 an hour on a zero hour contracts and the like who can be let go tomorrow. And yes others are the same, employers know how to get rid of people when it suits them. Or like a friend of mine who was unfairly dismissed along with 16 others, company ran away and labour law failed every one of them. Another friend working in subway. It’s bought by a new owner and they got 4 days notice before new staff were given their jobs.
I have a good private sector job and haven’t had a sick day in 7 years and at that time it was a few days off for a knee op. Average 10 days a year???? Come on now that’s not on. I don’t believe they are all at it but if the average is 10 days then some of them must be taking weeks off at a time. I don’t believe public jobs are a piss take but they are very well protected by unions and by conditions that no other jobs in the state would give.
A lot of people being defensive. Wonder why that is.
Also, this very article is about how PS workers miss more time. Btw, I don’t put any blame on them. Most people would do the exact same thing if they could get away with it. Truth being told, I’m a bit jealous.
But, there is no denying that PS workers get away with much more than the private sector. Trying to argue otherwise is foolish.
And he can probably get rewarded for additional effort and exceptional outcomes. He may get a bonus at Christmas. And perhaps a party paid for by his boss. Public servants can get none of this. Oh and if he makes a mistake he cannot be hauled in front of the PACand is unlikely. To be ridiculed individually or collectively in mainstream media or by trolls on social media. Yawn, it must be Saturday, the call centre people are up early at their desks and on here……. That’s not absenteeism of course
Didn’t do the exam Richard, did you. Regretting it once again? Laughed at the public service in the boom? Never mind, the public sector is recruiting again. You too could be one of the successful 27,000 applicants who applied to be one of the 300 garda recruits starting on 21,000 a year. Go for it!
So everyne should be treated like the workers in subway? Is that what you are saying?
Sorry for the delay in replying to you all I was very busy in work, start of a new 1/4 and all that I’m sure you know what it’s like or do you
Good to see this has now been updated and shows that the least sick days are taken by frontline personal like gardai, teachers and nurses while the sit on your ass civil servants brigade are taking the p#ss!
Gosh! Whoever woulda thunk it? And this realisation is only just coming to their management? Fairly par for the course in this wonderful little “republic”. This scandal has continued for far too long. Many years ago it was a means to even out the disparities between public and private sector pay – whether people accept that or not. In more recent decades, post “bench-marking” it has becoming merely taking the piss altogether. Things have really got to change.
I’m on benefit, so I’m off all the time!
It is only possible to get a Revenue member of staff on the phone between the hours of 10.00 and 12.00 and 14.00 and 16.00. What are they doing outside those hours?.. short answer – not doing any work. It would be nice to have a 4 hour working day
Surprised that’s so unpopular. You’re pretty much just stating a fact.
They are carrying out their other jobs. Who do you think handles tax credits, audits, issues you a refund etc?
The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform were initially due to publish this report at the start of February.
http://Www.Public jobs.ie
Log in and apply.thats what the public sector workers did.If you are unsuccessful,unionise and fight for better working conditions.Just like the public sector workers do.
Duh imagine that health care workers getting sick ! Just wondering maybe it has something to do with being AROUND SICK PEOPLE!! Cop on!
These comments make me sick, boss I won’t be in tomorrow
This makes me angry. I have worked for myself over 40 years. Out sick for handful of days. Last 5 years working for my nephew. Not been out sick once. Worked through prostate treatment too.
“leadership” in an article on the public service? ‘Cover your ass’ and ‘entitlement’ don’t qualify as leadership
I am curious. How many of those numbers about Prison Officers include those that were assaulted on while on duty. Everyday staff in our Prisons are being assaulted and then have to fight with the bean counters in IPS to have their assault recognised as an “Injury on Duty”. And then you have to add in those members of staff suffering more hidden issues relating from dealing with suicides, overdoses, prisoner on prisoner violence and other traumatic incidences. And the PTSD also applies to the staff in our A&E Depts, Gardai and Fire Fighters.
I workwd in the public sector for two years. My job meant that I was in every office from time to time. When I was in the Finance/Payroll office for 6 weeks I was amazed. ‘Sick’ employees actually rang up from home to ask how many sick days they had left. I askes was this normal and was told yes. People are ‘entitled’ to them and the vast majority of workers there take every sick day going so they can add it on to their existing 25 day annual leave.
The stories I could tell would amaze you.
every person has an alloted number of days before half pay in public or private sector. the social welfare cover half your wages in private sector and if you have health insurance it kicks in after that. Maybe these sick people were too unwell to work but knew for financial reasons they had to cone back.
Its not surprising, no job satisfaction here, when you see the morons running the country.
Secondary school teachers work 167 days a year. Civil servants work something like 230 or 240. Teachers take 6.5 sick days on average. Civil Servants take 9.5 days so the difference isn’t that massive.
I listened and read what he had to say about the housing bubble and subsequent bust. He stated the houses not only elasticated upward, but that they will elasticated downwards too, below their residual value. He said once that happened, around 2010/11, that this was the time to get your first house as they will NEVER go below that again. He was right.
His advice was spot on and it will mean I’ll be mortgage free by the age of 50. Now what if I had of listened to the cheerleaders?
Are you off work sick today John?
*never
Handy number
Simple way to sort it out. Stop paying they for sick days like the private sector.
these figures are useless without explanation. firstly people with serious illness or long term injury should not he included as it skews figures. (example. 1 nurse in ten missed a year off work with cancer.. this report would say on average, each of them took 35 days sick)
“Bradford Factor” should be introduced across all companies, it’s the best method to highlight rogue absenteeism. It’s the number of instances squared * the number of days absent. Someone whom takes 1 day off every month over a year would have a score of (12*12)*12= 1,728 whereas someone whom took 2 separate instances of 6 days off work would have a score of (2*2)×12= 48. It is deemed that a score below 30 is acceptable while 30 to 300 should be managed and 300+ is unacceptable.
Very interesting about the higher number of older people. This new sick leave scheme is a savage attack on public servants and will leave some in financial difficulty. The majority of ps do not take leave unnecessarily. Staffing levels are down putting staff under severe stress leading to illness’s. Treat people badly and see the consequences.
have your say