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Fair comment or time to look back - but not in anger? Photocall Ireland archive

Column Is it time to stop bashing Bertie?

Serious question, writes Paul Allen. If we do not learn from our mistakes and more readily embrace the knowledge of those that have made them, we will always be prone to repeating the errors of the past.

THE SILLY SEASON continued with aplomb at the weekend courtesy of the Sunday Times report featuring Bertie Ahern. Obviously short on sensational scoops, the paper contacted the former Taoiseach’s colleagues and detailed how they were surprised at the revelation that Bertie apparently scratched the Sunday Independent’s back while it scratched his.

The story regarding how the then Taoiseach gave the Sunday Indo insider scoops in return for the newspaper not printing details from his turn at the Mahon tribunal, had already been revealed on the TV3 documentary Print and Be Damned.

But if there is anything truly shocking about this story, it is the fact it comes as a surprise to anyone. Politicians and anyone with a public profile almost always try to influence coverage by offering something in return.

Indeed, the job of public relations consultants is often more about keeping stories out of the media than getting stories into the media.

Nonetheless, even with emerging signs of recovery in the property market signalling an economy on the slow but steady rise out of recession, and with many other stories of importance to occupy our thoughts, Bertie bashing still gains traction in the media.

We need to look with our heads rather than our hearts

This is despite the fact that, more than ever, we need the ability to look at our past, present and future with our heads rather than our hearts. But, while this would be the ultimate sign of a country that has finally reached adulthood, it seems as far away as ever.

In January 1988 the Economist used the headline “Poorest of the Rich” to describe Ireland’s place in Europe. Less than ten years later it was calling us “Europe’s shining light.”

Now, similar to 25 years ago, Ireland needs to drag itself out of a wretched economic slump to become a leading light once again. And when it comes to achieving this and protecting our economy from the mistakes that robbed us all of the riches gained over the past two decades, the government should turn to those who have been there and done that.

While Albert Reynolds and then John Bruton helped create and indeed usher in the turn around to Ireland’s economic fortunes, it was under Bertie Ahern’s leadership when the country truly became a global brand for success.

Indeed, regardless of what you think of the man, the list of achievements on his curriculum vitae between 1997 and 2008 are not only the envy of any Taoiseach, but of any world leader.

Arrogance and ego compounded gross mistakes

And then it all collapsed. Arrogance and ego compounded gross mistakes through inaction and ineptitude, with a ‘sure we will be alright on the night’ attitude.

Our fall from grace is a matter of public record and has left a scar everyone in Ireland will carry for a long time.

However, as obscene and unpalatable as this may sound, with our economy looking as if it is on the way to slowly climbing out of the hole it was catapulted in to, few have Bertie Ahern’s insight and knowledge when it comes to economic success, nor do they have his insider knowledge of the gross errors that can be made to squander such success.

However, mention his name nowadays and you will be verbally hung, drawn and quartered.

But the truth is the only way we can ever ensure we learn from the past is to embrace it.

The lessons they learned could be ignored

I am not for one minute suggesting Ahern should ever again lead this country or a political party. It would be a farce to suggest he would ever be in a position to do so. But if we banish Bertie and the others we blame for our downfall from public discourse the lessons they learned could be ignored.

They therefore should not be ex-communicated. They have the knowledge to explain the decision-making process behind key policies (some which worked and others which bombed) during their time in office, in order to help agencies, government departments or advisory boards guard against past mistakes and better plan for a sustainable future.

However, if any government-connected think-tank or advisory group declared it had collaborated in any way with the likes of Ahern or Cowen people would be up in arms.

While in America they laud and learn from people who have been forced to study the hard lessons of failure, in Ireland we shun them. And that is why, unfortunately, we never truly seem to learn from our past.

Paul Allen is managing director of Paul Allen and Associates PR, www.prireland.com

Pre-Budget politics – lies, damned lies and a gullible public>

Read other columns from Paul Allen here>

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272 Comments
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    Mute Joan Ruud Donnellan-Wijnen
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:03 PM

    No it’s not… He’ll go down in history for all the damage he and his party did to this country down through the last 40 odd years to Haugheys time .. Never forget!

    950
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    Mute MrMagoo
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:39 PM

    When we have finished paying off the debts he left us and our future generations then and only then will we stop bashing him.

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    Mute Matt
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:42 PM

    You cannot take his ridiculous pension off him but you can tax it at 95%. Shame on him.

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:44 PM

    200 years ago Edmund Burke in Dublin said “All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing”.

    He could have been talking about Ahern and Fianna Fáil and their plotting of a comeback to power.

    If they are ever left off or re-elected after all the destruction and robbery that they brought us then we might as well close the courts, disband the Guards, we’ll be pushing for no less.

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    Mute David Walls
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:05 PM

    No, he couldn’t have been talking about Ahern or FF as they have had no good men this long while!!

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:14 PM

    Bertie did a wonderful job of running the country… Oh sorry i meant RUINING the country.

    He was a cute hoor to retire when he did..

    210
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    Mute Niall Sullivan
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:16 PM

    If the author wants to forgive him, off he goes. But the rest of the country won’t. Ahern had the audacity to throw his name into the public arena recently for the presidential campaign. He’s in total denial.

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    Mute Keith Wade
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:39 PM

    Simple answer hell no !

    135
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    Mute Kevin Whyte
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:40 PM

    Let me guess Dylan – you are the good

    13
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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:49 PM

    No, anyone who is honest, decent and upright. Anyone that tries their best, does not rob or steal or betray their country.

    Basically most people who are not FF

    124
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    Mute Goebong
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:04 PM

    Forget about it it’s silly season people dancing on Bertie’s grave and he isn’t dead yet!! Yes Fianna Fáil had bonkers economic policies but they were egged on by all the opposition party’s and the electorate who voted them in time after time … Bertie made mistakes yes but he done a lot of good people forget we had almost full employment roads and schools built social welfare payments raised.
    He is not the bad guy people make him out to be just a scapegoat we irish love a scapegoat leave the man alone he isn’t a bad man

    22
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    Mute Snug Head
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:32 PM

    What a ridiculous article. The first step to forgiving Bertie is when he apologies on live television for ruining our country. But when he sits on shows like the late late and insists he did nothing wrong then he can rot.

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    Mute Jim Flavin
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:47 PM

    Bertie should not be forgiven ?/ . Are u serious ?? . He and others should be put on trial .

    148
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    Mute Les Rock
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:48 PM

    Ill have 10 pints and an indian. The next morning will be fun at his graveside.

    42
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    Mute Niall Sullivan
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:04 PM

    Can you do one on Lowry for us too Paul? – I could do with a laugh.

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    Mute Damian Moran
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:59 PM

    He should be tried for treason.

    70
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    Mute Tús Nua
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:33 PM

    @Goebong have you noticed how your the only person supporting this traitor ??

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    Mute shane o'donnell
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:42 PM

    Blueshirts, haha

    4
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    Mute David Burke
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    Aug 26th 2013, 9:10 PM

    Bertie says denial is an Egyptian river!

    20
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    Mute Malachy Quinn
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    Aug 26th 2013, 11:36 PM

    No they were not egged on by all the opposition parties- Sinn Fein were constantly highlighting the gangsterism of FF & were shouted down & rallied against by FG, LAB, GREENS & Independent Media News!

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    Mute censored
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    Aug 26th 2013, 11:59 PM

    Didn’t realize we were “bashing” poor old Bertie. I think there’s many people who’d love to be “bashed” the way poor old Bertie is being “bashed” with his €150,000 traitor’s pension as a reward for destroying the country.

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    Mute Damian Moran
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    Aug 27th 2013, 7:55 AM

    No I happen to think the whole lot of you are rotten to the core. FF,FG and Labour.

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    Mute Fergus O'Rourke
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    Aug 27th 2013, 4:38 PM

    @Jim Flavin

    You can do it yourself. Why haven’t you ?

    1
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    Mute Fergus O'Rourke
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    Aug 27th 2013, 4:40 PM

    @ Damian Moran

    Good luck with that. You can do it yourself. What are you waiting for ?

    1
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    Mute Fergus O'Rourke
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    Aug 27th 2013, 4:42 PM

    @ Tús Nua

    You think that he’s a traitor ? Why have you not prosecuted him, then ?

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    Mute Damian Moran
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    Aug 27th 2013, 9:00 PM

    ?????

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    Mute Fergus O'Rourke
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    Aug 28th 2013, 11:09 AM

    @ Damian Moran

    My comment was directed at your earlier advocacy of the notion that Mr Ahern should be tried for treason.

    If you think that should happen, just do it. The DPP is not going to do so, but if there is a case to be made, that need not be the end of it. What are you waiting for ? It is your duty to do something other than rant. You must think that there is a very strong case against him, as otherwise you would not express that view in writing on a public forum.

    Or would you ?

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    Mute Ru Ni Digs
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:10 PM

    This piece suggests that Bertie was a victim of his own stupidity.Bertie is a lot of things but stupid is not one of them!!!

    561
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    Mute William Ruane
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:36 PM

    In other jurisdictions wrong doing by politicians is rooted out and exposed and usually justice is done. This is never the case in Ireland, the wrong doers walk away with fat pensions. Ahern has been shown to be corrupt to the very core, this poison permeates through FF and now the other established parties. IMO Ahern can rot.

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    Mute Aine Nibhern
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:27 PM

    This little clip more or less sums up what the Fianna Fail government helped do to our economy i.e. overheat it with their policies. Lots of spin and a request by Bertie for certain people/economists that were trying to warn us to go off and “commit suicide”! How many people have taken their own lives since and partly because of the crash? ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFBfkusf8R0

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    Mute Paul
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:07 PM

    How many times do I have to repeat it”He won it a horse”.

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    Mute Brian Haines
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:35 PM

    Time to stop persecuting and begin PROSECUTING.

    185
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    Mute Glenn Halpin
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:41 PM

    Paul Allen Public relations… A spin doctor?… Really journal? Are you really lowering yourselves to publishing this?

    116
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    Mute Meehawwl O' Buachailla
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    Aug 26th 2013, 11:52 PM

    It’s the silly season

    9
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    Mute Ruadhán MacEoin
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    Aug 27th 2013, 12:04 AM

    In fairness to both The Journal and to Paul Allen (who’s thesis I fundamentally disagree with), it is a noble exception that The Journal discloses such a fact.

    Regrettably this does not occur with RTE, Newstalk or the Irish Times, where there are frequent commentators introduced to the audience – while it is never (or very rarely) disclosed that the commentators also happen to be full time spin doctors / advisers to political parties. Readers may find it interesting if they look into the actual occupation of “political columnists” with some of the erstwhile more respected outlets.

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    Mute Glenn Halpin
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    Aug 27th 2013, 11:53 AM

    An excellent comment Ruadhan, but it sounds a little bit like you justify the publishing of spin by saying ‘hey everyone’s doing it’. Regardless of the fact that The Journal disclose the authors profession, it still seems more like a manipulative advertisement funded by a third party and that doesn’t exactly inspire confidence or trust in loyal readers does it? But I take on board what you said about other outlets not disclosing columnists true professions.

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    Mute Fergus O'Rourke
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    Aug 27th 2013, 4:34 PM

    You can do it yourself. Why haven’t you ?

    1
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    Mute Glenn Halpin
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    Aug 27th 2013, 5:34 PM

    So can you Fergus, read some of your blog recently. ‘Why the bankers should not be jailed’ spoken like a former banker..

    8
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    Mute Fergus O'Rourke
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    Aug 27th 2013, 7:01 PM

    No, I can’t: you obviously didn’t read what you read. You haven’t even signed up to the Open Letter http://bit.ly/10IdNbN – something useful you could also do, but won’t even when others do the “heavy lifting”. (But prove me wrong, by all means.)

    1
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    Mute Gavan Titley
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    Aug 28th 2013, 6:11 AM

    A version of this piece was published two days ago on Irish Central. Paul Allen is, or has been, Ahern’s PR representative.

    I’ve blogged here about how Ahern’s seal of approval for Paul Allen & Associates PR vanished from their website, just as Paul Allen began to write ‘opinion pieces’ about Ahern’s value to Irish political life. http://storify.com/GavanTitley/madvertorial-or-bringing-back-bertie

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    Mute Paul Allen
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    Aug 28th 2013, 1:32 PM

    Mr Titley, I have never been hired in a professional nor personal capacity by Mr Bertie Ahern and have never acted as his “PR representative,” as you put it. That my dear chap is a fact. I am surprised you would include such a comment, because surely facts are a core element to the pursuit of academic studies. I would also asume you would chastise your journalism students if they pulled such untruths out of thin air and peddled them off as the whole truth and nothing but the truth. But then again Mr Titley, in your case at least, it seems a certain case of those that can, do; those that can’t, teach. Now, I have to go back to work, Mr Titley. I have a business to run.

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    Mute Glenn O'hAilpín
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    Aug 28th 2013, 2:30 PM

    Great work on the blog Gavan. Surely Paul’s above comment will fan the flames. His smugness is reminiscent of a by gone era. He and his FF clients are truly well suited. As one of the greats once said and it sits well with Mr Allen’s version of ethics,
    ‘No matter how big the lie, repeat it often enough and the masses will regard it as the truth’

    7
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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 28th 2013, 2:42 PM

    Paul seems like a nasty piece of work.

    11
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    Mute Dietrich Död
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    Aug 29th 2013, 2:35 PM

    Are you going to answer any of these allegations Mr. Allen? Or just insult people?

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    Mute Paul Allen
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    Aug 29th 2013, 4:52 PM

    Dear Mr Död, thank you for taking an interest. I have nothing to hide, so by all means list out your allegations for me to answer. I will endeavour when I get a free moment to answer them. Kind regards, Paul.

    1
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    Mute Eoin Ryan
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    Aug 29th 2013, 5:53 PM

    If you never worked for Bertie why was his testimonial mentioning you by name on your website? http://web.archive.org/web/20120314184708/http://www.prireland.com/new-testimonial/

    5
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    Mute Charlie Melia
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    Sep 20th 2013, 7:21 PM

    What they don’t like the name Spin Doctor????? Maybe they should come up with a new name for it…. Wait that’s what a Spin Doctor does…… Ahhhhhhhhh

    1
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    Mute Conor Conneally
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:05 PM

    The best place for Bertie Ahern would be in a cell in Montjoy Prison

    403
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    Mute Malachy Quinn
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    Aug 26th 2013, 11:41 PM

    Next door to your Blueshirt buddies!

    11
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    Mute Ignoreland
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    Aug 27th 2013, 11:24 AM

    Says the Shinner….

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    Mute Fergus O'Rourke
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    Aug 27th 2013, 4:45 PM

    @ Conor Conneally

    Why haven’t you done something about it, then ? The only way to get him into prison is to have him convicted of a crime. You can prosecute him yourself. Why haven’t you ?

    1
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    Mute Simon Pierse
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:03 PM

    No. No it is not and never will be.

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    Mute Little Jim
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:05 PM

    Not before we get a chance to actually bash him.

    323
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    Mute Catherine Sims
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:04 PM

    No it will never be time to stop bashing him. Ever!!!

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    Mute Omar johnson
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:16 PM

    Bash him with a branch. Get the special branch out for him.

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    Mute Cowenwatch
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:55 PM

    As opposed to the ugly branch which he must also have had a slap of!

    33
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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:07 PM

    We are not in this mess because Fianna Fáil politics failed. We are here because they succeeded.

    An orgy of corruption, cronyism and robbing of the tax payer can only ever end in economic collapse.As it always does when FF are in power for a long time.

    298
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    Mute gumbridge
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:05 PM

    It’ll be time to stop bashing when we begin to start punishing him.

    295
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    Mute Annette Temple
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:50 PM

    Took my words gumbridge. The man has shown not one ounce of remorse for his criminal actions. He should be behind bars with the rest of his cronies. Maybe then – when he’s served his time for his crimes – maybe then we can stop bashing him! (I wouldn’t hold my breath though)

    131
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    Mute Fergus O'Rourke
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    Aug 28th 2013, 1:05 PM

    If that’s your view, specify the crime and prosecute him. What is holding you up ? It couldn’t be that you are a worse spoofer than our iar-Taoiseach, could it ?

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    Mute Michael G O'Reilly
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:07 PM

    What a load of tripe this guy writes….must be a FF hack !

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:22 PM

    Fianna Fáil are all out to rehabilitate Ahern, they did the same for Haughey.

    If Ahern is held to account for what he and FF did in raping this country, then it means that they cannot do it again. If FF is reduced to being a political party rather than a front for robbing the tax payer them 3/4′s of its membership and voters will give up.

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    Mute rodrigo detriano
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:35 PM

    How can we ever be expected to forget the bare faced lies he told to the Mahon tribunal or the abuse of power he used during the Sheedy affair? The man is corrupt to the core and as it would appear he’s never going to pay for his crimes, the very least we should be doing is to make his life as miserable as possible. The mam’s a complete lowlife.

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    Mute R39CRW8f
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:08 PM

    Yes I think he’s a FF hired gun. A PR consultant hired by them. On these opinion articles where it names the author it should also identify who they are working for.

    To me this reads like a paid advertisement rather than an opinion piece.

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    Mute gumbridge
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:24 PM

    Sure the Celtic tiger will never end for the little weasel, what with the 3 grand a week we’re giving him!
    WEASEL!!!!

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    Mute Fortified Milk
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:47 PM

    test….

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    Mute Fortified Milk
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:29 PM

    hmm my first attempt at a comment didn’t work…anyway/….

    3000 euro a week…. is 15x times more than someone on social welfare receives… and 100,000′s of people are on social welfare solely because of what this man and co, and whatever other private interests he’s vested in are responsible for… good god what has come of Ireland.

    so much for the founding principles of the state of equality, democracy and justice for all.

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    Mute censored
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    Aug 27th 2013, 12:00 AM

    Yep, FF were shocked at the low turnout for Charvet’s funeral. Out of touch with reality.

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:07 PM

    Bert and his cronies destroyed Ireland. Never forget and never forgive.

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    Mute eric grixy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:14 PM

    we should forgive them when they admit everything they have done wrong and take their punishment ; they are running out of time on that one though !
    I don’t see it happening that way !

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    Mute Tracy Mc Kenna
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:24 PM

    Have any of his children had to emigrate to find work ? Has such financial desperation touched his life to a point he would consider Suicide ? Will he ever admit to being a lying, cheating thief ? … No !!! Then it’s not time to stop bashing him – his grinning face makes me sick

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    Mute Dar Ryl
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:04 PM

    He was on reeling in the years the other night. Mid 90′s episode and he was saying how if there are any corrupted members in his party they will be rooted out and how there is no place for them.

    The man could barely keep a straight face…… Even back then

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:12 PM

    Fianna Fáil from top to bottom knew what he was like and they loved him for that. It set a standard of corruption for them to emulate from the lowest cumann treasurer pocketing donations to the TD’s son getting a contract for a job he knows nothing about.

    77
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    Mute Ben Reilly
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:34 PM

    Let’s not forget the deposit 30K payed to Celia Larkin for her new home !!! Payed back some 20yrs later … Gut wrenching stuff

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
    Favourite Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:13 PM

    Paul Allen.

    Your basically a lobby group.

    In the interests of fairness can you say if this is a paid piece bought by Ahern or a member of the FF outfit, do you associate with know members of the Outfit. Are you a member of them?

    What state contracts did your company receive when Ahern or the the Outfit were in power. ?

    Did the Journal dare you to write this to see if you could set a record for negative comments.?

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    Mute AggressiveSecularist
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:34 PM

    I’m thinking of starting a lobby group that advocates for the correct use of “you’re”.

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:47 PM

    If their is a pension plan then count me in. The “your” lobby are fierce tight.

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:48 PM

    there

    lol

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    Mute Les Rock
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:06 PM

    There will never be a time. I for one would love to chin him

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    Mute Hilary McDuffy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:26 PM

    Never mind bashing, He should be doing hard time for the damage he and his fellow gangsters have done to this nation,

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    Mute Hilary McDuffy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:27 PM

    And that includes your fellow gangsters Enda

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    Mute Scrap Croke Park1
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:12 PM

    I’d like to propose the introduction of a Retired Public Servant Levy. It would operate as follows:

    Add all gross income including public service pension and additional income if you now work in the private sector. If the total is greater than 65k a levy will be applied to the public service pension. The levy is calculated as follows:

    1 – (65k / gross pay) %

    Ex 1: pension 70k
    Levy = 1 – (65/70) = 7.14%
    Remaining gross pension €65k

    Ex 2: pension 160k
    Levy = 1 – (65/160) = 59.38%
    Remaining gross pension €65k

    Ex 3: pension 60k. Private sector earnings 70k
    Levy = 1 – (65 / (60+70)) = 50.00%
    Remaining gross pension €32.5k

    Ex 4: pension 130k. Private sector earnings 400k
    Levy = 1 – (65k / (130+400)) = 87.74%
    Remaining gross pension €7,972

    It’s essentially a USC levy with 10,000 “bands” which would ensure public service pensions are capped at 65k and in the case where the person takes up work in the private sector ( or European Parliament, speech circuit, consultancy etc) that their need for a full pension is obviously reduced.

    This would of course be “a temporary measure” until the country gets back on its feet

    (please share)

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    Mute Alan Burke
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:23 PM

    I like the look of this

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    Mute Carcu Sidub
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:31 PM

    Enda, is not the man from Del Monte, he say NO.

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:11 PM

    No.

    Like his mentor CJH he “did the State some service” but like his mentor it was done for Bertie’s own benefit. He may have done some good, but Mussolini made the trains run on time, so the bad can’t be handwaved away just to suit revisionist Fianna Failures.

    The man is instrumental in the economic downfall of this country and still an honoured member of Fianna Fail. He’s the problem not the solution.

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    Mute Mick Torrans
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:19 PM

    The reason Bertie bashing still has traction is because he ducked out without having to answer fully for actions and what he and FF did to the country. This is our only way of reminding him that even if u can escape the courts in this corrupt political backwater of an island, u won’t escape the memories of the people left picking up the tab.

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    Mute Shane McGettrick
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:22 PM

    PR stooge try’s to justify obvious corruption is what the title of this article should read. PR is all about spin, feeding the masses what you want them to hear and fudging everything else. Then in an attempt to rehabilitate Aherne, he alludes to his list of enviable achievements while in power.
    Put very simply, Aherne and his ilk can take no credit for the improvement or change in Irish life. This change was brought about by infrastructural improvements funded by the EU, broader access to 3rd level education initiated by the rainbow coalition and by a vast increase in foreign direct investment, prompted by the former.
    Bertie’s achievements are limited to the creation of a property bubble, the decimation of the existing tax base and the normalisation of corruption in public life for over a decade. The envy of works leaders I’m sure…..well, maybe Mugabe.
    The day that we forget Aherne’s legacy or allow the anger that it resulted in to die then we can forget about growing as a people. Our shared history defines how we view the world and how we set our moral compass. The memory of the past is the insurance that the same will never happen again.

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:27 PM

    Public Relations.

    Prostitution using a typewriter.

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    Mute Stephen O'Neill
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:22 PM
    81
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    Mute Michael Skellig
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:26 PM

    An article written by a PR man? You have to query the motives.

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:46 PM

    An “article” in the Journal is cheaper than commissioning a RedC poll, I suppose.

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    Mute Michael Donnelly
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:20 PM

    Why would we forgive him? Look at what he did to this country!

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    Mute Michael Skellig
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:23 PM

    What’s the point of this article and why was it written?

    Is there a plan being hatched to bring Bertie back into the FF machine?

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    Mute Alex Scarrott
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:38 PM

    Treasonous rat should be locked up…. Sold our country down the river , set up a situation where the hard won independence fought for by his own father and his generation was given away …. No forgiveness here ! Bertie … You’re a disgrace !

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    Mute Derek Richardson
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:34 PM

    Journalist who write tripe like this should be locked up with the same crooks for aiding and abetting

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    Mute Ian Campbell
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:48 PM

    A journo didn’t write it. A bloody PR company did……. SHAMEFULL PROPAGANDA

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    Mute The Irish Bull
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:22 PM

    Ah the establishment protecting the establishment. Any journalist worth their column wouldn’t even consider posing that question. A more valid question would be – When will Ahern be held to account for Tribunal findings?

    If those were the kind of questions being pursued through the media, then our country would be a better place, much more than the Banana republic we currently live in.

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    Mute eric grixy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:07 PM

    I refuse to forgive Satan’s soldiers ! Until they come out and admit all the wrong they have done and beg for forgiveness of the children who have lost a parent because of the oppression of a thing called Austerity !
    but that’s just me !

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    Mute Eoin Darcy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:07 PM

    I like it Eric,ss not ff

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    Mute seamus mcdermott
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:28 PM

    He should be wearing stripes for the rest of his life–him along with all the other low-life thugs from that criminal organization. Send them to Gitmo.

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    Mute Shane McGettrick
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:33 PM

    Excellent, how about for every released detainee we take, the US take a formed politician off us. Providing they keep up the isolation, sleep deprivation and water boarding of course.

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    Mute Michael Skellig
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:20 PM

    His legacy is paying off the unions in exchange for votes. That inflated the economy and created a sense of entitlement among the workforce, expecting wage increases without any increase in skills or productivity. He also encouraged the property inflation which ultimately caused the economic crash in 2008.

    He deserves no sympathy.

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    Mute Marguerite Hoiby
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:46 PM

    But who voted for him? You get the government that you vote for surely and the majority of the Irish population obviously wanted FF & Bertie as leader.

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:47 PM

    Thieves, traitors and fools.

    The troika that makes up FF and its support base.

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    Mute Marguerite Hoiby
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:57 PM

    You have a good point.

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    Mute Stephen Doyle
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:13 PM

    Ah sure he was just misunderstood, hero of the common man. Will go down in the history books with those other misunderstood cuddly characters pol pot, hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Stalin and Ryan Tubridy

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:47 PM

    When he dies, we should build a giant toilet over his grave and call it the “Bertie Bowl”.

    Only 20 euro a visit. We’ll pay off the debt in a year.

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    Mute Cormac Moore
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:21 PM

    Haha, no.

    Jeez, you Journal guys can be hilarious sometimes ;)

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    Mute Matt
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:44 PM

    This should be a reminder to all. That FF should NEVER get back into power.

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    Mute Sean Clohessy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:38 PM

    But the problem is, they will get back into power, because at a local level they are strong and Irish people prefer there type of politics as it is always parochial and never national. Really says alot about the kind of people we are.

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    Mute Derek Casserly
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:46 PM

    Give the man a break.
    Ok, break over. Back to the bashing

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    Mute Alan Grouse
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    Aug 27th 2013, 4:33 AM

    voters have short memories

    they will get back into power

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    Mute Damian O'Brien
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:46 PM

    Great article written by a political lobbyist and spin doctor. Who are we lobbying for today I wonder?

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    Mute The whistler
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:33 PM

    If he’s still alive then its not time to stop bashing him

    The pox.

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    Mute Scarr
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:31 PM

    Before we can forgive we need justice for what’s happened. Not a pound of flesh but a proper trial with suitable outcome and a severe punishment if that is what is necessary. The lack of this catharsis is, and I very much mean this, extremely damaging to society as a whole. It breeds an attitude of ‘well if they got away with it….’ And we will reap that attitude for years to come.

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    Mute Kevin Whyte
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:59 PM

    A proper trial? Jury? Prosecution? Defence? Presumption of innocence? All evidence gathered without guaranteeing his right to silence, being excluded?
    There is no chance of any of that happening – not just for Bertie Ahern, but for all who gave their evidence at any of the tribunals.

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    Mute Fergus O'Rourke
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    Aug 27th 2013, 4:49 PM

    @Kevin Whyte

    What, if anything, have you done about it ?

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    Mute Mike Clinton
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:41 PM

    ahern will never be anything other than a lieing freeloading sleveen and will go down in history as a hated peraon.
    Seeing him still alive makes my blood boil.

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    Mute Dave O'Hanlon
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:08 PM

    Paul Allen talks about his achievements between 1997 and 2008. Lets see in 1997 he gained control of the country that was in the healthiest state it was ever in and in 2008 he jumped ship as it was about to be hit by the worst economic crash in its history. This was down to his main contribution, looking after vested interests namely his pals in the property sector.

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:38 PM

    “While in America they laud and learn from people who have been forced to study the hard lessons of failure, in Ireland we shun them. And that is why, unfortunately, we never truly seem to learn from our past.”

    Maudlin, twisting, manipulative crap.

    In America Ahern and all his colleagues would be on trial looking at life sentences. The Fianna Fáil party would be a proscribed organization and condemned for what it is, a high end rackateering gang.

    This sadly is Ireland and FF members are allowed free access to decent society.

    As you say yourself Paul “unfortunately, we never truly seem to learn from our past”.

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    Mute Daniel R
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:09 PM

    The question is is it time to send him into exile, along with the current government. Revolution please.

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    Mute The Red Devil
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:50 PM

    Again the journal shows its true colours

    I think a statue should be erected to Bertie, then I think everybody in the country should be encouraged to go up and throw stuff at it
    The money to build the statue should be taken from Bertie’s secret account
    It might not achieve much but the satisfaction people will get would be great
    That is what I and most of the public think of Bertie

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    Mute Seán Perill
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:48 PM

    This article should be spread everywhere as it shows the Irish people what your party really thinks of them. A bunch of brainless sheep that suffer from short term memory loss. FF are living in the past, they think they can just waltz back in and the gombeen public will welcome them back as the ‘alternative’ party. FF and FG are different cheeks on the same arse. The Irish people are educated now and that must frighten you. FF have tried to join protest marches, and fight policies that their own party would have introduced, but they have been told in no certain terms to ‘get to f**k!’
    Bertie should be hounded for the rest of his life and find no peace, but he thinks this will all blow over :)

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    Mute Carcu Sidub
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:26 PM

    Well if you think about when it all started to go wrong you would have to blame Bertie.

    To me it all started to go wrong when Bertie got rid of “Mc Greedy”, (AKA Charlie McCreevy). After all both of them were accountants by trade, so being accountants they were better able to understand how to show the country were in a better financial state then it was in, with the help of their accountant friends in the banks.

    However all went to pot when Bertie got rid of McGreedy & replaced him with that man of law Clown, (AKA Brian Cowen)! To make matters worse Betrie named Clown his successor who in turn put his namesake Brian (another useless lawman) Lenihan into Finance.

    After that the accountants in the banks had a free reign as nobody in Government could understand what they were up too, let alone had the brain to question them as to why their books were not adding up.

    Things have only gotten worse since then. Then again how could it have gotten any better, with the 2 failed teacher’s “running” the kip?

    So yes it is right to blame Bertie.

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:29 PM

    Fianna Fáil started going wrong in the late 60′s when the mohair suited sons started to take over. It has been rotten to the core ever since. Ahern was just a malignant and nasty manifestation of this but his attitude and contempt for the Irish people are core values to the Princes of FF.

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    Mute John Campbell
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:19 PM

    Bertie Ahearn for the record is not a qualified accountant. He was an accounts clerk in the Mater Hospital.
    Bertie Ahearn was only one of a number of people who helped bring about the peace deal in Northern Ireland.
    He has been shown to be a liar on the make all his political life.
    He knows sweet fanny adam about real economics. He bought and bribed his way through the annual budgets and elections.
    He deserves nothing less than our anger and demands for him to be brought to justice.
    Any person who has the nerve to suggest that Ahearn should be in some way honoured for his success in handling the Irish economy …..well to avoid being blacklisted by the Journal I will merely say that that person should be treated with the greatest of suspicion.

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    Mute Alex Scarrott
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:48 PM

    And he’s still taking our money !

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    Mute Fergus Bourke
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:52 PM

    I think FF should bring back Bertie. And Ray Burke. And P. Flynn. And Ivor Callelly. And etc etc etc. Bring em all back just to be a constant reminder of what a shower of corrupt, crooked ba $tards they really are. Bring them back by all means and stay in political oblivion where they belong forever.

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:56 PM

    There are enough stories in circulation about 4 current members of the Parliamentary party. Some of them will come to light in the next few years.

    You only ever have to look in front of you to find corruption in FF.

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    Mute Bobby Murray
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:40 PM

    Paul Allen is conducting ‘a conditioning of the electorate’ and unfortunately he will be successful with the academic weak minded!

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    Mute Chopstix
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:07 PM

    Yes … He is not in power Enda is he is the one that has to answer. Bringing up FF is a distraction nothing is going to be done about it so deal with those who are of the moment FG/LB

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    Mute Jacqueline Mckenna
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:55 PM

    I agree Chopstix,,,,the foundation of all political groups is to feather their own nests,,,,,,yes, FF messed up,,,,,then FG and Labour jumped on the bandwagon, lullying the despondant people of ireland into a false sense of security, as they lied through their teeth about election promises that they knew they could never honour,,,,,,,is FG’s dishonesty any different to FF’s ?,,,,,,,FG benefited from a lot of top promotions within the civil service sector during FF’s reign,,,,,,,,Can we be really so naive to think that the FG/Labour back benchers during FF’s reign in power werent privy to the economic state of our country ? ,,,,,,the solution to FG/Labours commitment to its people has and will always be, that they were left to pick up the pieces of the last governments mess,,,,,,there has been no record to date of an economic boom during a FG government,,,,,by the time FG have finished we will have to be a License to step foot outside our front doors !!!,,,,,,,FG wont challenge the reasons why we are now on our knees as many skeletons willfall from their own closet amidst such enquiries.

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    Mute Liam O'Fe
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:38 PM

    Who in God’s name allowed this moron to publish this claptrap?

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    Mute Denise Friary
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:44 PM

    My sister was at Galway races in the 80s and seen all the cute hores going in and out of the famous tent protected by big fat minders and the Garda. Shame on them all I hope they are all broke now.

    29
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    Mute Fuh Qiu
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:51 PM

    They’re not broke, their developments went tits up but they now manage them for NAMA for €200k/year

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    Mute Metassus
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:43 PM

    You spelled ‘horses’ wrong there, Denise. (Sorry, couldn’t resist.)

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    Mute James Patrick Smith
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:31 PM

    Bertie bashing- very ironic name considering some of the stories the media didn’t carry about the former leader and the kind of bashing Ike Turner specialised in.

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    Mute Scarr
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:47 PM

    Juicey.

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    Mute guardian
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:05 PM

    Yes. He was and is a genius. A man who gave to the people and brought peace to the island. So much more charismatic then Kenny. We want you back betie

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    Mute Tom Newell
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:34 PM

    guardian what drugs are you on cos I could so do with some if its gets ya so f**ked up you want bertie back in politics and probably you think the tooth fairy, santa claus and unicorns are real as well

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    Mute John McHale
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:42 PM

    guardian, you’re off the wall with your comments and if you don’t believe me just look at all the red thumbs – but then again you’re probably pulling our leg on this one……

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    Mute Niall Sullivan
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:49 PM

    A genius that “won it on a horse”, didn’t have a bank account, and a student of haughey.

    This has to be one of the worst propaganda pieces I’ve seen in some time. Thanks Paul ”Goebbel’s” Alan.

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    Mute ManOnTheStreet
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:35 PM

    Who is this “we” you speak of?
    I don’t want him back. He can go and fcuk….

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    Mute Jacqueline Mckenna
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:58 PM

    Red thumbs can be an indication of naivity,,,,or fear !!

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    Mute eric grixy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:23 PM

    so can green ; if one is brainwashed !

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    Mute Paul Wallace
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:49 PM

    @guardian I’ve been told Gerry Adams brought peace to this Island of Ireland…not Mr Ahern

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    Mute Niall Sullivan
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:21 PM

    Oh you mean Gerry and the peacemakers?

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    Mute Jacqueline Mckenna
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:32 PM

    a percentage of the irish people have to take responsibility for the position they find themselves in,,,,,some falsified their statements of earnings to get their big mortgages,,,,and knowingly and willingly live beyond their means,,,,while the ones who acted responsibly, and lived within their means are being screwed to bail out the high flying wannabees,,,,,,,

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    Mute Ian Campbell
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:39 PM

    Bertie brought no peace. . . . It was the lads in the north that did it Bertie turned up with his big f..king smerk to get a photo. Bertie made as much much for his own pockets as possible

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    Mute Joseph Siddall
    Favourite Joseph Siddall
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:55 PM

    What’s missing from the top of the Spire in Dublin ? He could truly look down on the people of Ireland.

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    Mute eric grixy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:45 PM

    Only if he has to sit on it !

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    Mute Joseph Siddall
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:44 PM

    Eric, The thought had crossed my mind.

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    Mute Aldo
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:17 PM

    Get back to me when hell freezes over………………….

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    Mute leartius
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:41 PM

    You can’t forgive someone who does not want or care if the Irish taxpayer forgives him. He gets his pension while working as a lobbyist for company’s looking to buy up assets. His diplomatic passport has not being touched, another failure for Gilmore who asked the FF elite to hand back what the never deserved but was laughed at. Even Mrs Haughty still travels around as an Irish diplomat. This man is a poster child for the civil service for introducing benchmarking. He has taking praise for work done by others in the northern Ireland peace process. The only thing Bertie wants is money, your money so instead of forgiveness just pay your taxes. Time will show that Bertie was not be that most corrupt politician in Ireland. Fianna Fail will be in the next government full of the next generation of Bertie’s.

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    Mute Jim Flavin
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:57 PM

    This is an appalling article – basically trying to revive Bertie – a man that should be on trial along with others .
    ”But if we banish Bertie and the others we blame for our downfall from public discourse the lessons they learned could be ignored.”
    the lesson Bertie learned was that he could con the Irish People – with Neoliberal Economics – and he said anyone who questioned his ideas – - well he wondered why they did not commit suicide – well many have .

    ”While in America they laud and learn from people who have been forced to study the hard lessons of failure, in Ireland we shun them. And that is why, unfortunately, we never truly seem to learn from our past.”
    who are the people in the US who are lauded for their failures – Bush , Clinton , Obama – would, the author mention a few names ??
    Was Milton Freidman lauded for his failed economic theory – or Reagan lauded for his failed Reagonomics [ basically Neoliberalism ?? which wherever it has gone has brought destruction – but has anything been learned from this failed economic BS-.No – It is still the thing to do .- and we suffer on under this madness of an economic theory-.

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    Mute Anthony Quinn
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:41 PM

    That sham hasnt suffered at all
    Doesnt know the meaning of the
    Word bashing..may he get all he deserves

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    Mute Lúcás Ó Duinnín
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:51 PM

    This entry is one of the most absurd pieces ever put on this website.

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    Mute JackDempsey
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:27 PM

    This article is premised on two things. One, that Ahern would want to give advice and two, that he has any uselful advice to give. Now, Bertie Ahern is a lot of things but a fool is not one of them. Since retiring from public life Ahern has let it be known that everything was alright with the economy during his tenure and when he left office. The subsequent problems were on his successors. This suggests that either he is unwilling to acknowledge his role in the house of cards economy and the fabrication of the Celtic Tiger myth or completely clueless about it. I can’t see how a mindset like this would be helpful to anybody.

    Ahern is on a huge state pension plus very generous speaking fees. He gets very rich for doing sweet FA work. Why he would want to go back into the hectic world of lobbying/consulting that would only serve to fan the flames of hatred towards him?

    This article isn’t even propaganda. It’s just stupid. Recently, a relation of mine was in the same public house as Ahern, who was backslapping and gladhanding his way around the bar. Someone asked ‘would he ever go back to save the country’. Ahern’s answer was to laugh and say something along the lines of why would I go back sure the place is f**ked. Ahern is no fool. He’s got his money. Now, he can keep it and spend his days laughing at all the poor idiots still paying to keep him and all the rest of the useless political class in their lives of luxury.

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    Mute Liam Dennehy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:30 PM

    Nice article from someone who works in PR company. Did Fianna Fail pay for this to be published?

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    Mute Chris Mansfield
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    Aug 28th 2013, 8:43 AM

    No. He’s Bertie’s PR man, not Fianna Fail’s…

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    Mute Francis Howard
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:32 PM

    No

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    Mute Seán O'Sullivan
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:11 PM

    In a word, no.

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    Mute Yellow Buzzinfly
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:16 PM

    Unforgiving !

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    Mute Ian Campbell
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:47 PM

    PAUL ALLEN PR is the author of this article!!!?!? Are the journal allowing propaganda???????? Is PAUL ALLEN doing PR for Bertie!!!!!!!!…..WTF

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    Mute Ciaran Murray
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:24 PM

    I think a poll could decide this

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    Mute Lisa Dorothy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:22 PM

    No.

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    Mute Cowenwatch
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    Aug 27th 2013, 10:50 PM

    Yes!

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    Mute Paul Reidy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:35 PM

    Surely a piss take article?

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    Mute Conor Hooper
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:40 PM

    Good god, this is just painful. This column is a perfect example of how the country got so royally shagged.

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    Mute aurilton
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:47 PM

    Forgive him …. NEVER

    He should stay in the cupboard, when he did the News of the World advert and never come out

    Him and his cronies destroyed our country

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    Mute Adrian Mc Sweeney
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:21 PM

    What an obsequious, pandering, sycophantic load of tripe this article is. Going by the logic here, sure there’s no reason he shouldn’t be taoiseach again.

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    Mute Paul Nolan
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:47 PM

    I have to say No, and add to that a never as well.

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    Mute Jamie Hooper
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:04 PM

    This is so stupid it borders on tasteless.

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    Mute Brendan
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:00 PM

    I don’t think there’s a single FF TD in Dublin now. Let’s keep it that way…..

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    Mute Gerry Grimes
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:08 PM

    Interesting article. The author seems to suggest that we should forgive Ahearn in order to move on. And that somehow we’ll have learnt something by that.
    Given that that premise is patent nonsense and that Mr Allen is a savvy, well educated guy I’d have to assume there is an ulterior motive. It is either that he wants to absolve Ahearn of his wrong-doings or he’s softening the damage done to the Indo’s (already tattered) ethics image.
    We may not be surprised that the Indo and Ahearn would scratch each others backs, but that does not deflect from the fact that our 4th estate does not serve us well if it is willing to ignore the salient details of the investigation of a Taoiseach.
    What else have they ignored?

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    Mute Ken Lynch
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:29 PM

    This is complete rubbish, nothing but patronising drivel designed to get a reaction from people…therefore I’m going to watch a comedy on the telly and not let it annoy me.

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    Mute Damian Rossiter
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:40 PM

    Article made no sense until I got to the bottom when I see that the author works in PR. Trying to make a name for himself by posting a controversial view perhaps on a controversial figure?!!

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    Mute Peter O'Leary
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:15 PM

    Met him on holidays in Sneem a few weeks back. Have to say a very pleasant individual in person.

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    Mute margaret
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:17 PM

    One of the few in the country who can still afford Parknasilla.

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:19 PM

    I used to buy advertising space of Joe o’Reilly. Have to say a very pleasant individual in person. He still seems that way when I recall but I know what he is capable of now. He couldn’t hide his true nature, nor could Ahern.

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    Mute Niall Sheridan
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:03 PM

    In answer to the original question, no it isn’t!

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    Mute John Sherwin
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:44 PM

    It is very easy to focus in anger on Bertie. I am not a fan however history may be kinder than we are today to him.
    There is a much more salient point which a lot of commentators missed! That is unless we learn the lessons of history we are condemned to repeat them! This above all else is a reason to at least find some means whether by court room trial, Oireachtas committee or even dare we speak the word Tribunal to understand the basii and decisions that were made. It is relatively easy to make Ahern and Cowen scapegoats for what happened however what about the bankers both domestic and foreign who lent without due diligence then expected the taxpayer to pay for their folly.
    Politicians were not the inly ones who made mistakes.

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    Mute Ning Neary
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:02 PM

    The author , Paul Allen & associates are
    A PR consultancy firm.

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    Mute Nydon
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:26 PM

    Is it possible to report a whole article for trolling?

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    Mute Dave Reilly
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:06 PM

    1 guess what party the writer is in/supports…

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    Mute Darren Foran
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:41 PM

    is it time to jail bertie is what should be asked ,retired his office friday and place was bankrupt on the monday!!! schumacher in his prime couldnt have timed a move better !!

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    Mute Mark Donnelly
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:03 PM

    What’s Bertie offered the author of this shite!!! He did not make mistakes he was a crook!!

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    Mute Brendan Cafferty
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:24 PM

    Its a pity that from 2001 on Bertie and his government did not rein in public spending, stuffing the public service and ensure proper banking and statutory regulations. Too much reliance on the building boom which was unsustainable. Lettting the markets decide and light touch regulation was a disaster.

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    Mute Dec O'Farrell
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:45 PM

    Ask him for ADVICE? When you can’t believe a word out of his mouth? Will you get real for fexake!!

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    Mute Shane Mullally
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:31 PM

    I wouldn’t trust any of them-shower of gangsters,the lot of them…

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    Mute Graham Browne
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:01 PM

    No

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    Mute yoman
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:25 PM

    #slanbertie :)

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    Mute Mick Staines
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:37 PM

    No

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    Mute Marko Burns
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:17 PM

    Even just seeing clips of the way Bertie acted in the Dáil again recently just made my skin crawl. His deliberate mumbling and fumbling made a mockery of us. I’m no fan of Enda but a least he doesn’t take the pi$$ the way Bertie did.

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    Mute Mark Hosford
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:06 PM

    I’m not quite sure what this story’s about.. Are you saying it’s time to learn from berties reckless(some could say treasonous ) behaviour ….
    Or it’s time to stop Bertie bashing ,

    Or say he was great (well he was great for planet Bertie )

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    Mute Martin O Donnell
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:48 PM

    Why does always have to concentrate on the negative really pisses me of …were it not for Mr haughey and Mr ahern we would never have had the Celtic tiger and this country would still be in the dark ages……always be positive and enough of the negative vibes man

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 1:53 PM

    People just seem to hating thieving crooked traitors.

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    Mute Liz Quinn
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:31 PM

    Success built on a shifting swamp of lies and corruption is not success (as we can all see) and Ireland deserved much much better.

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    Mute Daniel Brady
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:02 PM

    No.

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    Mute Róisín Connick
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:46 PM

    I’m 21 so I’m not as clued in as many people on here but this I do know…people vote for the politicians they want to run the country, so if people had such issues with the FF government why did you keep voting them in? What were you expecting you knew what they were like? Some may say the man single handedly ruined the country I don’t think he did..I think you did as well by voting him in…!I say out with the old and in with the young people. It’s the only way let the youth rebuild…

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    Mute Ian Campbell
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    Aug 26th 2013, 6:45 PM

    Roisin….. I won’t patronise you I’m only a few years older but what happens is people who voted FF did so because their fathers did and their family did not and they voted because because THEY DIDNT KNOW ANYING ABOUT POLITICS they were sheep thousands upon thousands. They never voted for they felt they were the best people to do it. Oh and many people believed their lies

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    Mute Ciara Barrett
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    Aug 26th 2013, 8:25 PM

    All for new blood also Roísín ..however in order to make a difference it is imperative to understand the past and how things happened and what you are truly up against, and not just what you read in the papers or see on TV. Talk to people (all ages) …question and understand motives..there is always a bigger picture, a bigger agenda..so corrupt everywhere…! The powers that be all over the world (not just Ireland) are the true minority in control..and what’s it all down to? Whom you know and how much money you have.
    Money speaks all languages.
    Money puts people in power.
    Only way to change our world, is the control we have ourselves..local community.
    We have no hope against the big fish who are corrupt beyond any imaginable way. They will never be punished for what they do or did. They are protected.

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    Mute Jason Bourne
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:14 PM

    Europe’s leading light? We were fugging lent money!!!! We were never rich!!!!

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:40 PM

    Not true. Ireland’s economy was a global success story up till about 2002 if the building bubble had not been so pushed against all logic after say 2004 then we’d be riding this out like Finland.

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    Mute Oliver Golden
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:18 PM

    The usual suspects with their nasty vile comments!!!!

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:40 PM

    As FF election slogans go, it’s quite catchy. Certainly more honest than the usual scurry ye spout!

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    Mute eric grixy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:06 PM

    Oliver ; that’s an excellent assessmet of Fianna Fail . I would have used the word lies but you are obviously more educated in the ways of the bond …, sorry world !

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    Mute Jacqueline Mckenna
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:10 PM

    FG slogans are “Stand Down”, “Resign” and “we are trying to pick up the pieces from the previous government”,,,,,,,,,,Tap dancin Jaysus, i never met such a bunch of cowardly gits in all my life,,,,,,,they have left a nation of people, at the mercy of several foreign countries as a solution to the problem,,,,,ireland is losing its identity and its culture in the process of all of this,,,,,,say what you will, but haughey and Ahern protected irelands cultural heritage,

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    Mute eric grixy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:31 PM

    will you be voting for Fine Gael in the new merger with fianna Fail Jacqueline ?

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:43 PM

    Jacqueline. It was FF that brought the IMF in.

    The only aspect of Irish culture that FF protected and carried on was the gombeen man, the Landlord’s agent, the informer at the Castle door.

    The culture of the thief and traitor and Haughey and Ahern represented that more than any other in the last 50 years.

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    Mute eric grixy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:19 PM

    The I.M,F, is a direct breach of article 5 of the Constitution the very foundation of the State of Ireland ; no-one is therefore obliged to pay tax under a foreign regime !

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    Mute Jacqueline Mckenna
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:26 PM

    Sinn Feinn,,,,,,or Dustin,,,,,becoming stronger contenders !!

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    Mute Brendan
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:41 PM

    Oliver ‘Bravestarr’ Golden is back…..
    Man of FF steel, Man O’Mystery, Defender of Democracy, Ladies Man. Stirred, not shaken.

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    Mute Elrat
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:46 PM

    Was your photo taken in Fagans Jacqueline ?

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    Mute Jacqueline Mckenna
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    Aug 26th 2013, 11:25 PM

    Was yours taken in animal farm ?

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    Mute Glenn Halpin
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    Aug 27th 2013, 3:01 PM

    As an Ard Chomhairle member Oliver, don’t you have some kind of social media policy about not calling the people of this country ‘vile’… Stick to sneaky propaganda like this fine piece of journalism and keep your own personal twitter account out of it. Might report your comment to the FF powers that be.

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    Mute Paul Allen
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:18 PM

    I understood before writing this blog that the subject matter would be controversial to put it mildly, but I make no apologies for being passionate about ensuring Ireland recovers stronger and in better shape not to repeat the mistakes of the past.

    For the record, and for all the conspiracy theory lovers out there who suspect otherwise, Fianna Fail nor Bertie Ahern paid me to write this opinion piece.

    Also, to underline the fact, at no point in the article do I say we should “forgive” Bertie Ahern or any others who hold varying levels of accountability for the damage done to our economy and country. My point is, ignoring and castigating those that dragged our country to ruin through various means and ignoring their existence means that the learning process on how we avoid such calamities in the future will not be as robust. Ireland over the years has ignored tackling tough and thorny issues, but as a mature society we desperately need learn from our mistakes if we are to prosper in the future; however, history has a nasty habit of repeating itself – hence the reason for writing the piece in the first instance.

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:20 PM

    “Ireland over the years has ignored tackling tough and thorny issues,”

    Like the question does Bertie Ahern have a tax clearance cert. and if issued was due process followed and adhered to. Did he get one just to make it all go away.

    This is one of the smaller questions that Ahern has to answer.

    It is quiet disturbing that someone like you Paul with such access to the corridors of power in Ireland can write an article like this. If you were paid by Ahern or FF then at least you were doing your job but if you genuinely believe it… too frightening to contemplate.

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    Mute Dave O'Hanlon
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:42 PM

    As you can read from the comments Paul we’re not ignoring his existence. Most of us would wish he existed in our own kitchen cupboard so we could suffocate the weasel. However Paul your piece does state that the ‘list of achievements on his curriculum vitae between 1997 and 2008 are not only the envy of any Taoiseach, but of any world leader.’ Considering the mess most of us are experiencing, statements like that are an insult to our intelligence.

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    Mute Liz Quinn
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:45 PM

    The thing is Paul, I think absolutely there is learning that should be had from this shocking crisis. But I don’t think that the learning has anything to do with Bertie’s apparent “insight and knowledge when it comes to economic success”, he doesn’t appear to me to have any such insight or knowledge. He chased power and holding onto power at any cost and the very last people on his mind apparently were the ordinary people of Ireland.

    So I would be very much up in arms if I thought the government was “collaborating” with Bertie as having some special insight that would return us to economic success.

    However, I would absolutely welcome a full State examination of how we arrived at this crisis and a calling to account of the people, politicians, regulators and banks involved. Will that ever happen though? Probably not.

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    Mute Peter Richardson
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    Aug 26th 2013, 8:05 PM

    A silly and poorly reasoned hypothesis.

    Of course anything and every one are capable of being defended.

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    Mute Dirk Hudson
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    Aug 26th 2013, 8:51 PM

    I agree Paul history repeats itself.
    George Orwell aptly depicts a model of society in Animal Farm, where self serving leaders turn things around in their favour, while keeping the others in the dark and subservient to their personal ambitions
    The question is did Napoleon have the capacity to be anything other than the character he was? The only solution history offers is to start again.
    Does Bertie have the capacity to do what you would hope???
    Once fooled shame on Bertie, twice fooled shame on me!

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    Mute Meehawwl O' Buachailla
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    Aug 26th 2013, 11:59 PM

    Perhaps he could teach us about how to bet on horses and survive the financial world without a bank account?

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    Mute John Meade
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    Aug 26th 2013, 4:41 PM

    He should get a dam good kicking every day for the rest of his days, so no, we should never foret what he and his gombeens in FF did to us, if he only knew the misery he caused to so many.

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    Mute Dietrich Död
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    Aug 28th 2013, 8:19 AM

    I know Mr. Allen has made no effort to conceal his identity, neither here nor in the near identical piece he published on Irish Central (http://www.irishcentral.com/story/news/allens-ireland/could-it-be-time-for-ireland-to-bring-bertie-ahern-back—220931711.html) but what is not made clear is that Bertie Ahern is a long standing client of Mr. Allen’s PR firm. A point which, it would appear, is confirmed here: (http://www.waybiz.com/companies/Allen-Paul-Associates/41902/recommendations). I think the Journal needs to recognize the difference between an opinion piece and paid P.R, that is if ever want s to be taken seriously as a credible ‘news source’.

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 28th 2013, 2:46 PM

    Simple pay Paul Allen to write a piece condemning Bertie for all his treachery.

    Rent-a-pen.

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    Mute Dirk Hudson
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    Aug 26th 2013, 8:43 PM

    What Nonsense! Bertie is currently involved in organising the sell off of state forestry assets.The man should not be allowed to be a director of anything, as he didn’t insure that wrongdoing was punished, rather dismissed the very thought, insulting the intelligence of the Irish people regularly!

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    Mute Shane Hartnett
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:44 PM

    The truth from Bertie………..the man couldn’t “lie” straight in bed.

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    Mute Meehawwl O' Buachailla
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    Aug 26th 2013, 11:49 PM

    This is a pathetic piece. Paul Allen was Bertie’s biggest PR “guru” for years and has also worked extensively with Fianna Fail. I would no further take anything this man has to say as I would of Bertie himself. Liars, liars…all damned liars.

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    Mute Ben Mad-Dog Moore
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    Aug 26th 2013, 2:51 PM

    All the comments I have read so far seem to have completely missed the point of this article. The author clearly mentions that under no circumstances should Bertie Ahern be given back any semblance of power or influence in our country, but rather to look back and reflect on the positive ways in which he made Ireland such a force in Europe. While it would be untenable to suggest that Bertie was a perfect Taoiseach (far from it), Ireland undoubtedly flourished under some of his policies. Hitler too was an awful, despicable human being, but he had some brilliant economic policies.

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 3:09 PM

    but Ahern and FF’s economic policies are and were woeful. They took a global success story with very low debt, great productivity and in less than a decade gave the world the most indebted society on the planet, the biggest property collapse on record, the biggest bank collapse per capita in the world. FF’s only policy for 50 years is how to rob the taxpayer and get away with it.

    They and their party donors walked away insulated from the mess though.

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    Mute Nydon
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:14 PM

    If we could get someone to lend the country billions of play money that we could use for the purpose of building expensive houses to sell to eachother while skimming enough tax off the top to keep our politicians well heeled for life into retirement Bertie’s wisdom would be crucial to the country. If not then …. No.

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    Mute Ryan Murphy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 6:48 PM

    This site just gets worse and worse.

    Now they’re giving broadcasting rights to a prominent FF mover and shaker.

    You’re a joke lads, a joke.

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    Mute Peter Richardson
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    Aug 26th 2013, 8:03 PM

    The article is complete trash and piffle.

    The immense bad that Bertie did, in concert within hid good mares, the property developers, outweighs his incidental role in the peace process.

    Bertie was not interested in the public interested. He was interested in self aggrandisement.

    We are well rid of him. We don’t need perverse attempts at his rehabilitation.

    Truly it is the silly season.

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    Mute Paul Yeates
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:01 PM

    There can never be enough Bertie bashing

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    Mute Paul Guckian
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:10 PM

    Whenever I stop having to pay for Bertie’s misgovernment will be the time I may think of not bashing the worst Taoiseach in the history of this country.

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    Mute Usawadee Wannapho
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:38 PM

    He created the worlds most outrageous benefits umbrella and allowed public sector pay to go through the roof and that’s just for starters. He should have been tried for treason and executed.

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    Mute Niall Gilmartin
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:32 PM

    There is no doubt that Bertie was a consummate politician, and a man who was very good at playing the ordinary card, that he was one of them, little old Bertie who loved his pint and watching football. However outside of this he was could barely put two words together, and how this man got signed up to give speeches after he retired is beyond me. He was also extremely arrogant, and a few years ago stated that the country would not be in the current mess, were he and Charlie still in charge. The fact of the matter is that Bertie and Charlie bankrupted this country with their frivolous spending, one union official famously said that bargaining with Bertie was as good as going to the cash machine. Under his watch the salaries of every public sector worked doubled and trebled in some cases particularly at the top levels, while our welfare system went through the roof. His legacy is a bottomless pit of debt that will take lifetimes to alleviate, so no it is not time to stop bashing poor old Bertie.

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    Mute GerOliver
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    Aug 26th 2013, 6:29 PM

    I don’t have an I phone and I am of the generation that benefitted from all the good things that Bertie Ahern and Fianna Fáil did for this country and its people. Roll on the next elections and I along with the rest of the sensible people of this country will be giving my No 1s this time to Fianna Fáil and hump the begrudges.

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    Mute Ian Campbell
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    Aug 26th 2013, 6:48 PM

    Good man gerOliver….. (Bertie in disguise) set up a twitter account just to post or comment. Listen name a few of the good things Bertie did other than throw you a few quid ya dodgy plasterer

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    Mute GerOliver
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:07 PM

    I was born in the hungry 40s. We were on our knees and we had nothing to look forward to only emigration. We had outside toilets and no bathrooms. Ask older people about lifestyles back then and you will see how far we have come in living standards. As you know Fianna Fáil were in power for most of that time. Don’t get nasty with what you think are smart comments. Wake up and smell the coffee. I am not saying that all that happened was good. I am not foolish enough to believe that all politicians are there for our good. Their priority is themselves and what they can get out of it for themselves. That is the nature of the beast.

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    Mute GerOliver
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:30 PM

    No my friend YOU are the traitor. I come from a family steeped in Irish History and I have the medals to prove it. My family fought in the war of Independance so that we can debate with freedom and not resort to name calling . Put your argument and be done with it.

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    Mute Dylan_Phone
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:35 PM

    So what your family have medals. You didn’t win them. Your surfing on the past glory of better men than you. Men who had beliefs and loyalty to Ireland. Your using them to justify your support for Fianna Fáil, a party that stands for everything they fought against. All to benefit yourself at the expense of your neighbours and the rest of us. 50 years of corruption and robbery ignored.

    Bought cheap.

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    Mute GerOliver
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:54 PM

    Beliefs and loyalty that was passed on to me and that I passed on to my children and hopefully that they will pass on to their children. That is what this great country is made up of, in spite of all its faults. I will vote for Fianna Fáil in the next elections because I believe that they are best for this country. If you think otherwise that is your prerogative and like me you can cast you vote whatever way you like. Have to go now as kick off time is at 8.

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    Mute Ian Campbell
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    Aug 26th 2013, 10:24 PM

    Yu might bot be well in the mental department….. You are what’s wrong with this country, my family were prominent in fighting along side collins but that’s going nothing to do with it you obviously an angry man at today’s society…… It’s people like you who BLINDLY VOTED FOR FF for years that caused these problems. You don’t have a clue about politics but you continue to vote for FF because you ail lad did and you prob passed this blind sheep following onto your kids. I was thought to always vote an vote for who you want. The fact you call me a traitor is funny. I’m 28 hard working and want better of my county, you on the other hand are clearly bitter your FF buddies got decimated in the last election. Your problem is you forget Finna Fail are not the same as the 40s, your devout following means you Think they are the great bunch of lads back then further compounds the moronic following of that party. Collins would turn in his grave and the men in your family who fought in the war did so in vein because of FF followers like you. Jog on

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    Mute Eric De Red
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    Aug 26th 2013, 9:00 PM

    Bertie, you betrayed your people. Sleep well.

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    Mute Clare Rehill
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    Aug 26th 2013, 11:15 PM

    Is this guy for real?? Economic success?? The Celtic Tiger was built in a bubble of corruption and unregulated banking system, rotten developers, politicians and “cheap money”. Ireland would be better off seeking economic advice from Bosco. Forgiveness is not something Bertie should ever be given!

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    Mute Ignoreland
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    Aug 27th 2013, 11:19 AM

    After 2002 it was, yes. Before that starting in the mid 90s we were actually a properly growing economy with exports greater than imports.

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    Mute Eoin Darcy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:09 PM

    In the words of father Dick Byrne,nooooooooooooooooo!

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    Mute Simon Jester
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    Aug 26th 2013, 8:11 PM

    Its alot easier to forgive your enemies.When you have got even with them.Sure we’ll forgive that little creepy toad when we see him being led out of the Four courts in handcuffs to be driven at top speed to the “Joy.For a 30 year stretch of porridge.
    Then We’ll forgive him.

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    Mute Pádraig McCarrick
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    Aug 27th 2013, 2:37 AM

    Is this article part of a PR spin hired by Bertie? Certainly seems like it. What a crock.

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    Mute Lisa Dorothy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 9:58 PM

    What I would ask the author of this column is that does he really believe that he Bertie Ahern has learned from his own mistakes. I am for examining the mistakes of others and trying not to make them again, but has Bertie Ahern even acknowledged that he played a massive part in the complete and utter devastation of this country?

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    Mute Sean Patterson
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    Aug 26th 2013, 9:15 PM

    Short answer: no.

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    Mute susanna smyth
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    Aug 26th 2013, 9:26 PM

    Are you joking?? You can never forgive anyone who doesn’t admit to wrongdoing and in Ahern’s case he’s responsible for the loss of so much if what we held dear as a nation. A nasty vicious self serving traitor !!!

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    Mute susanna smyth
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    Aug 26th 2013, 9:30 PM

    @ Peter Richardson. Well said. Spot on !

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    Mute mr_bean_007
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:52 PM

    It’ll take another 20 years for the gombeen Bertie type voters to die off,

    But by then he’ll be too old and frail to be trialled for treason

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    Mute Alan D Fitzpatrick
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    Aug 26th 2013, 11:52 PM

    Too many of these cheerleader-for-hire PR parasites clog the media. The article is a new low for the Journal.

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    Mute Brian McDermott
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    Aug 27th 2013, 2:41 PM

    Why is a PR consultant writing this? Hired by Bertie by any chance. If people fall for this then it’s proof we are indeed a nation of very very stupid people

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    Mute Marty O' Neill
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    Aug 26th 2013, 10:39 PM

    No it certainly not! He will go down in history as the man who wrecked this country!!!

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    Mute Gerard Cunningham
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    Aug 26th 2013, 5:49 PM

    Remember folks, the Iar-thaoiseach won the money on the horses..

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    Mute dearg doom
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    Aug 27th 2013, 11:07 AM

    There should be a big neon sign over this indicating his PR agent wrote this, as it’s something people can glance over. This is ridiculous propaganda, basically written by Bertie.

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    Mute Eoin Darcy
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    Aug 26th 2013, 6:09 PM

    So should we see Bertie excused for squandering a whole nations hard work?does the fact that most people think he lost control and ridicule him for doing so act as some kind of punishment?i don’t wish Bertie any harm (as opposed to Bertie saying those who saw through him should kill themselves,paraphrasing ,I know),but until he is jailed for his dereliction of duty to his 4 million pay masters or shows any meaningful remorse he is fair game.as for the assumption that he has anything to teach us ,I ask,does anyone care what he would say?we know what went wrong ,so does fg,unless the people are put first and the culture of entitlement is quashed there is no future for Ireland.we are quickly running out of time to save ourselves.our citizens are calling for action,only the government will be to blame when they call for blood.

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    Mute Rachel Mathews-Mckay
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    Aug 26th 2013, 7:01 PM

    Er NO!

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    Mute John Dundon
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    Aug 27th 2013, 8:51 AM

    Paul, what learning did they do in America from the likes of Nixon? Was he consulted with in order to deepen the knowledge base for future pols? Nope. They impeached his sorry ass. We have indeed, a lot to learn.

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    Mute Ignoreland
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    Aug 27th 2013, 11:17 AM

    No Alan, it’s not. The fact that FF are at 28% in the polls shows that we need to keep talking about everything they’ve done to ruin the country lest people forget.

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    Mute Michael cunnane
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    Sep 15th 2013, 1:29 PM

    We should never stop bashing Aherne.He charmed the nation n has us eating out of one palm of his hand while the other was about to smother us.Arsehole!

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    Mute Marie Keating
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    Aug 27th 2013, 6:33 PM

    How can you forgive someone who has never admitted they did wrong? Forget Paul Allen, any chance he’d do a ‘Tell All’ interview with Oprah?? And even then…

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    Mute dr_faulk
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    Aug 28th 2013, 8:35 PM

    “the country truly became a global brand for success”

    …. by having a leader who, in the face of oblivion, suggested that nay-sayers should go commit suicide.

    That man or his ilk have no intellectual right to the future of Ireland.

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    Mute Nick Caffrey
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    Sep 20th 2013, 2:43 PM

    No, it’s not time to let up on him. It never will be.

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    Mute Fergus O'Rourke
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    Aug 27th 2013, 4:58 PM

    Let’s never forget: everything good in our lives we earned by ourselves without any help from anyone. Everything bad is the fault of Fianna Fáil, the Troika, the Germans, the bankers and the rest. They ruined it all for us; we did nothing wrong, ever.

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    Mute Michael O'Byrne
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    Aug 27th 2013, 12:32 PM

    Forgive certainly, but forgetting would be foolishness!

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    Mute Dave Tett
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    Aug 28th 2013, 8:29 PM

    Haha I knew I’d enjoy reading the comments way more than the article haha

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