Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
IT SEEMS ODD that society deems a 16 or 17-year-old citizen responsible enough to drive a tractor, join the army, work full-time, leave school, or be detained at a detention centre but questions whether or not they are responsible enough to vote.
Earlier this month, the National Youth Council of Ireland (NYCI) hosted a conference to examine the issue of voting age and launch the Vote at 16 Campaign. A dynamic group of young people from all over Ireland were present to debate the issue with experts including TD Simon Harris, Professor David Farrell of UCD, Ruairi McKiernan of the Council of State, Niamh Gallagher of Women for Election and We the Citizens, and Leanne Caulfield of the ISSU.
Professor Farrell said that lowering the voting age was a ‘no brainer’ and would increase democracy in our country. This was reiterated by other speakers. The opinions and research undertaken by the speakers gave everyone food for thought – at times confirming the validity of opinion previously held and also introducing the audience to new ideas in relation to the issue of lowering the voting age and expanding democracy.
Although I’m a political science student, I have never possessed any great passion for Irish politics. Party politics have never appealed to me and civil servants have tended to impress upon me more than politicians. Nevertheless, one element of Irish politics which is close to my heart is the electoral system, which is likely to mean nothings to anyone under the age of eighteen. I have been working on this issue with the National Youth Council of Ireland since I was sixteen.
Young people under the age of eighteen are widely disenchanted with the political system. It is of no significance to them because they cannot participate in what we actually get away with calling a democracy. The difference between a sixteen and an eighteen year old in 2012 in terms of being able to vote is sparse or non-existent. Sixteen and seventeen year olds can pay taxes, drive tractors and can be detained for breaking the law.
However, young sixteen and seventeen year olds have no role in electing those who makes decisions which personally affect them. Rights should match responsibilities. Current and past governments have gotten away with making decisions which have had extremely negative consequences for young people.
The current voter registration system is poor in Ireland with young people falling through the administrative cracks. Young people are often not even registered. For many, not being registered automatically means that they are disenfranchised and often remain so until later in life. Being registered whilst still in secondary school could overcome this obstacle.
The fact is, today’s government is making decisions which are affecting young people. Cuts to education and youth work have an austere impact on young people. Youth unemployment is currently 30 per cent for those aged under 25 and the average rate is 14.1 per cent.
President of the European Commission Jose Manuel Barosso recently sent a letter to Taoiseach Enda Kenny telling him that Ireland needs to shape up on youth unemployment, as it is presently at an extreme high level.
We are living in a country where career guidance teachers are telling young people to consider further education in areas which will be conducive to moving abroad. Considering this, I ask you – what future does our beloved Ireland have and what of our young people?
If I was a sixteen year old, growing up in Ireland I think I may begin to feel unwanted.
When John Gormley was in government he promised me that he would put lowering the voting age in the White Paper for Government. The NYCI and I met with the Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution to lobby for a reduction in the voting age. Additionally, the current Programme for Government states that the Government will explore the possibility of reducing the voting age to seventeen. The NYCI and I await the current Government’s proposed Constitutional Convention through which this issue will be taken forward.
As a member of the Expert Working Group with the European Youth Forum for lowering the voting age, I have the opportunity to learn about best practice in other countries, such as Norway where sixteen year olds voted in the last election. The turn-out was higher for sixteen year olds than older voters. This proves that when given the opportunity to participate, young people are enthusiastic. The current Danish Presidency is working on the issue of lowering the voting age.
UK MEP Andrew Duff is working closely with the European Youth Forum on this issue. The European Youth Forum is also holding European Round Tables and other events with MEPs and Members of the Council of Europe to push the campaign forward. The Council of Europe supports the reduction in the voting age.
Young people today are more affected by everyday life than ever before in Ireland. We are more politicised and educated to know and understand politics and issues affecting us, our families, our community, and our country.
It is time for young people to have a voice in the decisions that affect them.
Maria Pia Kelly is a youth representative on the Vote @16 Expert Group
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Yay – Jedward for Taoiseach!
For the same reasons why 16yo are not being held responsible for their decisions…
Because they are morons?
Teens are too mollycoddled in this state. They know F all about anything important.
Perhaps that’s exactly what happens when people are treated like they’re irresponsible morons.
I hope this has taught you kids a lesson, kids never learn!
Let them have sex too…legally.
There was a huge thread, yesterday, about the supreme court ruling on under age sex, with the boys being held responsible and there after guilty under law of a sex crime. I agree that many 16 year old are very capable of voting and doing so independently of their parents, how funny would it be that at 16, you could vote, work, pay tax etc and GO TO JAIL FOR HAVING SEX…..
There is much we need to do for young adults in this country, starting with proper sex education in schools, drug and alcohol awareness courses, and most of all DRIVER ED classes from 13-14 onward… every years 100′s die on the roads. Whilst our education system is good, in many ways it fails to prepare them for life in the real world. If they had a vote, the government would have to pay greater attention to their issues and problems( possibly the very reason they don’t have the vote already)…… But as a caution to them, with greater rights comes greater responsibilities
The vast majority of people (in any moderately developed country) at the age of 16 do not have the necessary life experience or perspectives on the world we live in to inform a vote. This was tried in Austria in the 1990s and they suddenly saw support for far right groups leap to heights not seen since WW2.
I mean no offence to the proportion of 16 year olds who wish to vote but you would do better to spend the two years until you’re 18 informing yourselves further and it will count all the more when you turn 18. Implying that just because 16 year olds can pay taxes and join the army they should be allowed vote is totally specious reasoning and I think the phrasing of your question says it all “Why not”…there are many good reasons.
your argument is flawed – although I woudn’t lower the age – you seem to indicate that people shouldn’t vote for a far right party – I understood that one could vote for which candidate they wanted,. Notwithstanding the right would be popular enough in austria anyway.
Excuse me but I believe the goal of democracy should be to limit the influence of prejudiced xenophobic groups whos only objective is to preserve segregation when it comes to human rights. If my argument is flawed then I’m glad, as democracy is a dangerous thing in the hands of paranoid racist who resort to attracting impressionable teenagers as their main support platform.
That’s ok – your beliefs are your own – but what you believe in is not democracy. Democracy has no goal other than to reflect the will of the people, not to bring about some liberal wonderland where the guardian is the new Mein Kampf
Hi Benjamin,
It’s an interesting argument, but what other factors are involved besides age? It seems to me too simplistic to say that it was entirely the Australian youth’s lack of fourteen months experience that cultivated such an explosion of far-right groups. Unsurprisingly, I can’t find any studies done on the opinions and perceptions of younger Irish people, but I’d be surprised to hear they were so xenophobic.
Andrew you’re bang on there. The idea that all 16 yo are goose stepping neo-nazi’s is stupid. Mass emigration perhaps may have been a factor I don’t know but I doubt it was a sudden drop in the voting age.
There are many incompetent people over the age of 18 who vote. Most 16 year old’s are not interested in voting but those that are should have the right to do so. The decisions made by the Governments now effects their futures too
So they magically develop these life experiences by the age of 18? And by what standards of life experiences and/or perspectives should we hold them up to? What level of life experience does a person have to have before reaching an informed vote? Now what happens if someone doesn’t have these life experiences and perspectives that you mention? Does that make their views any less valid, and if that’s the case should they be rendered invalid, or ignored?
So how do we make sure people have these in hand in order to make an informed vote, and who gets to decide the criteria?
Last time i checked the only requirements to vote was to be 18 years of age, and then to be resident in a area for a certain period of time to vote in that particular area. It’s up to everyone, regardless of age to find out about whats being voted on and to get educated about it.
If someone doesn’t vote, then in my view they lose ANY right to complain about how the vote goes and what happens thereafter. If they are not fully informed, then that’s their own issue. Press releases, leaflets, tv and radio adverts etc can be released all they want, but it’s up to the person themself to go out and find out exactly what they are voting on, be they 16 or 99.
I’m sorry that’s bullshite
Benjamin, you are wrong in relation to Austria. You are correct to say that there was a rise in the far right vote in Austria from the mid 1990s on. However 16 and 17 year olds did not get right to vote in federal elections until 2007 and the first time they voted was in 2008. So linking the voting age with rise of far right is incorrect.
Good argument. I would agree the voting age should be lowered and diaspora from around the world should also be allowed to vote from where they are. Maybe then when the brackets have widened would incoming Gov realise their votes are not automatically in the bag.
Dispora around the world allowed to vote. There would have be some limitation on that for myself to agree. For the government anyone that has left and living in another country for more than 2 years should NOT be able to vote. Under 2 years then yes. For the president then everyone. How to figure out who is legitimate and who is not is a different argument.
Why on Earth would you be in favour of people not living in the country have a say in how it’s run?
What about people living in the country for years, like me (12 years) and not being able to vote? I pay tax and contribute to society, but I am not allowed to vote.
Jeroen, i think you are wrong, I voted in the last general election. Just make sure you are registered. Groetjes !
I wish you were right Roos. Either the Live Register made a mistake or you applied for irish citizenship because non-Irish EU nationals are only allowed to vote for local and EU elections. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/right_to_vote.html
en de groetjes terug ;-)
Paul for the came reason that,say, people in Cork don’t have a say in how Dublin City Council is run. We don’t live there we just visit occasionally. There was a case in Schull about 15 years ago where a man from Donegal objected to a phone mast because he liked to come to Schull for holidays 2 weeks out of the whole year and didn’t want this “eyesore” spoiling his view. Bollocks to the people of Schull and their wish to have coverage.
If you are not living here then why should you have a say in how it’s run? 4 friends of mine are living abroad for the last 20 years so why should the have a say, I have 3 uncles abroad for between 20 and 40 years so why should they decide who governs the country. The decisions made in elections affect the people living in the country, not the misty eyed Diaspora.
Well, me and my son have voted. I did complain to a local canvasser and he said he’d have a look at it. A few days later we got our voting cards :-)
“Why on Earth would you be in favour of people not living in the country have a say in how it’s run?”
Because we might get a better Government out of it? Because they’re still Irish citizens? Because Ireland benefits from the diaspora in many ways?
For example, create a separate constituency for them. Then you don’t have to worry about the sad fact that there’s probably more gone from the country than remaining. Voting in stroke politicians who only look after “their people” hasn’t exactly served the country well, has it?
twaddle. most 16 yr olds have never paid a bill or rent. no way should they be allowed vote
A seductive argument, but one can say the same about 14 year olds. Age is not a pre-requisite for tax liability. There are many things permiited at under eighteen but many of them require parental/ guardian consent. The real question is; what’s the hurry? We are talking 24 months at the most. And, as it happens, 24 crucial months in the life of a young person – junior and leaving cert time.
18 is when most young people start to lead an independant life, college, work or travel etc. It is also the age when the State feels that they no longer need special protection. At 18 a person needs no ones consent to do anything within the law. Time enough then to worry about the vote.
Of course they should be allowed vote, most are educated to a higher standard than some adults in this country. If they make a contribution then they should have a right to vote and be heard!
during the 2007 general elections and I had turned 18 a week before but couldnt vote, why? My birthday was in May and registration closed in February and you had to be 18 at the time, not at the time the vote actually took place!
That’s just wrong, the government have data bases with everyone’s birth date and as such you should be included on the register automatically… But them Election day should ALWAYS be held on a Saturday or Sunday to allow everyone to be at home to vote, if not students should be registered at their colleges for voting purposes. The on going failure of successive governments to address these issues could be viewed as them setting an obstacle to democracy….. After all just how many vocal and sometimes angry students does a sitting government actually want voting???
This is not accurate. Someone has misinformed you I’m afraid. If you are 18 at the date of the election you can register to vote in the run up to the election on the supplementary register. I did this myself before the local elections in 2004. I only turned 18 on May 28th that year with the election on June 11th and had no difficulty in getting on the register.
With all due respect Brian perhaps things have changed since you were in university. The proportion of third level students nowadays who actually care is low…those you see protesting represent a minority…not to mention half of them participate just for the craic or to have an excuse not to put their heads down and actually study. The majority just want to have 4 good years and come out with a 2.2 Degree having never stepped foot in the Students Union offices. This is partly because they filled out their CAO form at the last minute.
You are almost advocating forced voting for everyone of legal age…Firstly this is contrary to the idea of democracy and secondly it ignores the fact that many people just don’t exercise their societal responsibility to vote because they couldn’t be arsed…you’ll find they still quite likely complain about the govt. this and the govt. that etc. But it’s all part of the mix and that’s the essence of democracy.
@ Benjamin.. Not suggesting forced voting, even though it exists in several countries, I’m suggesting making voting as accessible as possible… and referring to your “Since your time in Uni”… thanks but i’m not that old :-)
I very much agree on the moaning without voting though….. Vote up, or shut up would be very much my stance
@eoin i tried that form had a february date restriction and whoever was behind the desk said I couldnt
@Brian while I agree that everyone should be given time to vote, holding elections exclusively on Saturday and Sunday wouldn’t do a lot to help as 24/7 consumer economy ensures that many people are stuck working weekends constantly.
Yes, 16 year olds should be allowed to vote and it could be integrated into their curriculum.
If they all had to register to vote as part of their homework, it would really chance the political dynamic for the good.
And so what if Jedward got elected? Democracy already gives us the Healy Raes and Michael Lowry, so it couldn’t really get worse.
I always see this as an argument to increase the minimum age for the defense forces, not a reason to lower the voting age. I know myself at that age I was political aware and set about reading up on political theory and various party policies however I was very very much in the minority of my peers I have to admit. Yes it is tough for those at 16 or 17 that are politically active and aware but they have to think about wider society and the rest of their age group. Can they honestly say that the rest of people in their age bracket would be informed voters? Before 18 you cannot smoke, drink, get a mortgage, apply for a loan, enter a licences premises after 9, stand for local election, etc. They are too impressionable at that age and do not have the life experience to be deemed eligible for the above and the same is true about voting. As for paying taxes, well if a 12 year old pays something at the shop they are paying VAT, do they get a vote? Education is free up to the end of second level where the typical leaving age is 18. If they choose to leave before the end of second level that is their choice, it should not entitle them to a vote.
Definitely agree. Age isnt always the best benchmark. Many 16 year olds have a developing social conscience while even at 60, some people fall short of the mark.
“If I was a sixteen year old, growing up in Ireland I think I may begin to feel unwanted.”
I think this is possibly the most out of place line in there. How do you define unwanted?
In general in Irish elections, turnout increases with age (Lyons & Sinnott, 2003). Yes there are groups in the 18-25 and 26-34 age groups who are politically interested, but in general older voters are more likely to turn out on the day and vote. If 16 and 17 year olds were able to vote, I’d imagine they would be the two ages with the lowest overall turnout.
all 16 year olds are Muppets!
Thank you it’s good to know there are Muppet’s like you aloud to vote when I’m not
because they shouldnt be doing any of the 3, paying tax, joining the army or voting at 16, they haven’t a clue at that age!!
so the day they turn 18 they become more competent. I know a lot of 16 and 17 year old’s that are more competent than people who are legally aloud vote now
It’s to do with emotional intelligence & while there are some exceptional young people out there, as a general rule your average 16-year-old is simply not able to vote. They’re not working, they’re living at home, they generally don’t have children so the decisions of government don’t have the same impact or relevance as they do on your average 20/30-something.
Eimar, I agree entirey with your first sentence, and I agree that 18 years old is soon enough to vote. However, government decisions should have an impact or a relevance for us all, reardless of age. If not, why are they there?
I might have phrased that badly. I suppose what I mean is the things we would look for in ministers (income tax reform, social welfare reform, policy on the debt crisis etc) is not the same as what the average teenager would purely because the same issues don’t affect them.
So for example if a candidate were to come forth reducing the legal age of drink & sex & guaranteeing free fees, what teenager wouldn’t vote for them? I would if I were them! However their other policy may be income tax increases of 5 & 10% to pay for it, you know? Now obviously this is pure fiction but do you get me?
Unfortunately Eimear what you’re missing is that every group looks for different things in a government, not just teenagers. People on social welfare may demand that it is protected, while those on higher incomes may prefer lower taxation. This is a relatively small group if compared with pensioners or farmers for instance, so their opinion alone will not decide government policy, merely influence it to find a happy medium.
What about Irish people living in the north
Yeah, What about them!!!!
no chance of people staying with reality, you must not know Paul, The north is not governed by the dublin government, Good lad now, they get to vote when there are elections in the north…….
There seems to be a lot of good arguements for and against this, when I turned 18 I kinda considered it my duty to always vote and tried to instill that in my children, to educate themselves about the matters conserned and then vote as they see fit – even if I disagree with them, which I sometimes do.
I reckon there are many young people, 16 and possibly younger you do this and are well able to make an informed decision and vote as they see fit, but I’m sorry to say these are the exceptions. As I look around at most 16 year olds I don’t see this, what I see in the majority is apathy at best and usually hooded gurriers, and yes I’m well aware a hoodie doesn’t make a gurrier as my son often demonstrates. I simply don’t believe most 16 year olds are capable of making an informed decision about voting, and if I’m honest some 18 year olds too but the law says 18 and we should respect it. If it were to be lowered to 16 I believe it would be a very bad idea, yes they can be detained at 16, many should be but arne’t, they can join the army many would like to but can’t, they can work, some seem aversed to this and those that would like to… well, what jobs?
The government made a lot of promises that the haven’t kept, most of them more important than lowering the age of voting so pardon me but I’d prefer if they keep their other bloody promises first regarding health, education and jobs and then, maybe when we can get our own bloody country back we’ll talk to the kids.
It’s true that most 16 year olds can work and pay taxes but how many are living on their own, self sufficiently.
How many actually care about taxes, rent, bills & austerity measures?
I’d say that the number is very low and for that reason I do not think it’s a good idea to let them vote.
if u can pay tax then ypu should be able to vote for who spends it
An interesting objection that has been raised to this is that while many teenagers are politically active, most are apathetic. It’s a funny thing about apathetic voters – they rarely vote. A change in age would allow those who do care to express their opinion, the others simply wouldn’t vote anyway.
LET THEM VOTE. BEFORE THEY HAVE TO EMIGRATE.
the simple fact is voting is far more important than taxes, leaving school, join the army etc. those choices only affect the person making them, voting affects everyone. most adults are not responsible enough to vote. to properly research the candidate/party they are voting for.
have your say