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HOW DO YOU solve a problem like Maria?
Whenever I think of public sector reform, the line from that song comes to mind. But unlike the Maria from The Sound of Music, the public sector is more like the Reverend Mother. Old, bewildered and incapable of dealing with an energetic young novice.
So too our Victorian legacy – that is, the public sector – struggles in a rapidly changing world. That the sector is in need of reform cannot be denied. But where do we begin? Annoyingly, a line from another song from The Sound of Music comes to mind: “Let’s start at the very beginning.”
Why do we need a public sector? I’m not going to attempt to answer the question or try to justify the existence of this monolith. I accept a need for such a service. However it is not somewhere to put the unemployed or promote the incompetent sideways.
The public sector is funded by taxpayers, so money must be spent wisely. Each public sector employee must work to the best of their ability. Why should we expect any different? It is not a charity.
The services provided by the sector must add value to the lives of the citizens of the state, a service must have a clear purpose.
The State apparatus must function at the highest standards in the delivery of service to its citizens. It must be a great place to work and a great organisation to do business with as both customer and supplier. Invariably, such organisations also deliver the best by default.
So having set some ground rules, we must ask: What can my country do for me that I cannot trust any other organisation with? I think you may well find that many of the current services can be effectively provided by the private sector and often for a lesser cost to the tax payer and with greater trust and accountability than we get from our public sector providers at present.
Just because the State has had to provide certain services in the past doesn’t mean we still need those particular services to continue to be provided by the State. We once had a State airline, but it failed to live up to expectations when private competition arrived on the scene. We once built and owned the telecoms infrastructure, perhaps in hindsight we might have been better advised to have leased the network. We live and learn.
In some cases we hear calls in respect of social need. Subsidised public transport and housing for example. Could we put such services out to tender? We do not need to shut down public sector providers, but if they are any good, they should be able to compete on the basis of a level playing field and give the subsidy to the winner.
It comes back to the question of what do I need from the State and what is the most effective way to deliver on that need?
Obviously, if we are to start to sell off assets, or outsource services, we need to look at regulation and standards of performance. Is the public sector the body to conduct the regulation, or is the sector up to the task when we see what has happened in terms of planning and financial regulation? If we cannot trust the State to look after our welfare, who then can we trust? I think we need to reform the sector if it is to regain that trust.
We must ask ourselves what is the purpose of each one of these services. If it cannot be distilled into a paragraph, then the service needs to be broken up into bite-sized pieces with a single overriding reason for it’s existence and three key priorities it must deliver on.
If you have more than three priorities in your life or in your business, you have no priorities. Too many priorities rob each other of their sense of purpose and dilute commitment and ownership.
With too many priorities, you can have no progress and direction. Public sector reform is too big a concept, too complex a problem and overwhelming. The concept must be refined, the complexity must be simplified and it must become human in nature.
There is no “one size fits all” solution each element of the sector must be tackled on its own. These are the simple steps to reforming the Public Sector.
One of the great benefits (or horrors) of setting a purpose and set of goals is that it becomes quite easy to then measure the success of those charged with delivering upon that purpose. It can almost become self regulating, refining its purpose and adapting to the objectives of its existence.
The tax payer pays for output. If output is not achieved within the defined purpose of the vehicle, its people can be held accountable and can set about adjusting their own performance to meet those goals and objectives, or it can be handed over to someone or some group better equipped to deliver.
No matter how you define the role of the State, it still needs people to run it. You cannot run an exceptional country with ordinary people, so our public servants need to be the best. They also need the best training and support for their jobs and we must expect the highest standards from them.
Our country can only be as great as our public sector can make it. We need a world class public sector. If we could break the logjam Ireland could become A Nation Once Again – and that song does less damage buzzing around in my head than Maria does.
Cormac McGrane is the managing director of THG Ireland.
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A simplistic article from someone who obviously has zero knowledge of the inevitable intricacies, nuances and complications of running the public service.
I would agree that it is undeniable that it is in need of reform though.
Spot on.
Exactly! I seems that all of the people who have the strongest opinion on the public service have never worked in it! It’s not the bed of roses they all seem to think it is. They need to remember that we are Citizens too and a poor public service affects us as much as them!!
Perhaps we should take lessons from the dynamic private sector, with less regulation and more competition say the ….banking system and finance sector- dynamic and of course working for public needs.
It seems the planning authorities, regulators and politicians are giving out those lessons so no need to look at provate sector. There is as much corruption much closer to home!
As most of the banking sector is now nationalised it can no longer be considered either part of the private sector or dynamic.
The past and previous governments have pursued the flawed policy that throwing taxpayers money at problems resolves them. This is lead to both an inefficient and underperforming public sector and banking sector.
The Irish private sector and it’s employees should be applauded for their dynamic response to this crisis. As this is the only area of our economy that is keeping this nation afloat despite the continuously increasing burden imposed by an incompetent state.
“Government receipts (including social insurance) are expected to be around €50 billion this year, down 17% from their level in 2007. Gross government spending is expected to be €70 billion, up 12% from its 2007 level (with only half of that increase due to increased social spending following increased unemployment). Our national solvency is being held hostage by a public sector which has yet to adjust to Ireland’s permanently reduced circumstances.”
Cormac Lucey
How about removing duplication?
Is this the same guy who commented on a related story from the 12th Jan,
‘I would be very happy to see them share the pain those of us who struggle in the real world have suffered. Pay cuts, my rosy butt, they haven’t had any’
http://www.thejournal.ie/public-sector-reforms-need-more-urgency-to-succeed-hayes-326205-Jan2012/
Nice!
Funny how people with the biggest of agendas are encouraged by online media to rant and rave and be keyboard warriors in the fight against whatever pet-hate they have!
Journal.ie is getting to be like politics.ie!
well said,this article stinks of someone with a personal axe to grind,with nothing constructive to say.Disappointed with the journal to be honest.
My god, would you read the article before going off on your rant. This is not about pay. It’s about making the public service more accountable. I don’t know what’s wrong with the people arguing against this cause my friends and family who are in public service would welcome accountability. Surely flushing out incompetents is good in any organisation? Dave, I wasn’t aware you had direct access to mystic meg either, you know his pay? Any chance of getting me the lotto numbers for tonight?
I spent the last week in Crumlin hospital with my 2 year old. Simply put-they were all amazing! From doctors to nurses to cleaners! My faith was completely restored. I work in the hse also and can see the flaws but the dedication, professionalism and expertise of these staff blew me away. Please stop blinding criticising these people.
I have been ill with the last 4 months Greg and I couldn’t agree with you more. When I was in hospital, it was evident they were stretched, however, I still was afforded the best of care. It is because of these very people in the frontline that I believe the public sector needs change. There is alot of waste in the public service, that’s a fact, but by introducing change and weeding out the poor performers and quangos, these excellent people could be rewarded more. That’s what this is about, rewarding excellence and abolishing incompetence. i can’t see the big deal. All good employees should be pro change surely?
The unions have a large part in the mess it is in now. Go after them first.
Indeed. You can’t write an article such as this without mentioning the unions. You try to make any change whatsoever in the public service, you’re going to have to ask permission from their minders first. The unions have run this country into the ground. No one will implement change in the public service without years of negotiation with union heads and dozens of votes. This article was a waste of space.
Privatisation generally leads to lower wages for workers and higher wages for management as well as eroding of services to the public. While the public sector needs reform this ill- thought out article is not the starting point.
Sick of this. The public sector didn’t bust the banks. We were not a problem before all the corruption was discovered and so far not acted on. As soon as people started losing there private sector jobs and perks we became an issue. Did we complain about the corporate hospitality the gym memberships etc etc. I work in an area of the public service that was modernized in 2003 by the then minister responsible for it. Just because people started to lose their jobs in this country we are an issue that has been created by the like of ibec and other organizations to smother over the cracks in their operations. No doubt there serious issues in the public service. To suggest that we are in some way to blame or part of the problem is just pure propaganda. Nobody in the private sector has to put up with the instutionalised bullying that we do or child like treatment. We did not cause this recession nor can we fix it. Anglo has been bailed out to the tune of nearly 30 billion , were paying back unsecured bonds and countless other billions because of the greed of the big wigs in the banks and the in some way the Irish people the MAJORITY OF WHOM WORK IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. THE PUBLIC SECTOR HAVE TAKEN A 30% PAYCUT SINCE THIS STARTED. WE HAVE FELT THE PAIN AND YES WE STILL HAVE A JOB BUT THE COMPETITIONS WERE OPEN TO EVERYONE SO TO ANYONE OFFENDED BY THAT SUCK IT UP AND GO AFTER THE REAL VILLAINS BANKERS AND POLITICIANS.
Oh and I think the authors analogy from the sound of music is an indication of the outdated thinking he actually criticises himself!
The private sector services that you would have take over from the public sector (you make no distinction here between Local Authority & Civil Service) in the name of “effeciency” & value for money would not be subject to any oversight by publicly elected representatives (i.e. County Councillors) and would be free to operate whatever way they wanted. Case in point being the Greyhound Dublin bins debacle. Or to take a UK example its extortionate privatised train services.
Reform is required but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater in a panic of privatisation. The State has a huge role to play and i’d rather a service provided with a social democratic perspective than one based purely on profit maximisation.
you solve it by strapping a ton of dynamite to it and blowing it to smithereens then start again.
hey I know the political party who could that and they wouldn’t need to buy any explosives either
but what they save on explosives would cost us on toner ink anyway
What an ass… Come and do a 12hour night shift on a bank holiday and see how cushy it is…
Extremely disappointed in journal.ie in letting a guy who manages a recruitment company, which has obviously being hit hard since the collapse of the Celtic tiger, publish this article. Anyone who quotes Eddie Hobbs as a man with good foresight and calls frontline public sector workers the ‘little guy’s is a guy whose opinion is skewed. However my main gripe is basic logic dictates that when you make an argument calling for change you actually outline, at least to some extent, what the problem actually IS first before you admonish it and not just calling it ‘overwhelming’ or ‘big’. This guy has an agenda, maybe he would like his recruitment company to get a nice little government contract in picking the right people for state jobs…..
Spot on Jason. I wonder why this person was given such an opportunity to pass his opinion as fact?
Because he hustled for it. Flexing a tired old undergraduate puerile argument against a perceived soft target. Isn’t it just a bit lame that these nonsense opinion articles are premised on the notion that the private sector can do no wrong?
The private sector is not the enemy, but it’s advocates often come across as simpletons. This is a good example.
It’s not surprising that none of the “editorial” staff are commenting on this. Did this clown pay for the article? Is he an advertiser on the site? Did he get someone here a nice job somewhere?
Anyone with any journalistic or editorial sense would see this is an inflammatory piece of garbage that doesn’t even match the headline given to it. This is a new low for thejournal.ie. Pathetic.
And yet at the end he calls for a world class public service – not exactly the comments someone with an agenda against the public sector would make. From my reading of the article, he’s simply raising the thorny issue of which functions (in terms of cost and in outcomes) can best be done by the public sector and which by the private. Unfortunately the comments section has just tuned into private verses public sector arguing.
If you all feel so strongly, I’m sure you could email the Journal team asking if you yourself do a column rebutting his arguments will they publish? I’ve seen them do this type of thing in the past.
Ryan – it’s very common for people arguing from that ideological position to mask their intentions with exactly that sort of weasel language.
Witness the Tories or US Republicans claiming they want excellent healthcare for all while pushing a privatization agenda guaranteed to scupper that, or anything uttered by our own PDs back in the day about pretty much anything.
@ Eoghan: Likewise we have many people (left leaning perhaps) on here masking their true intentions by making misleading statements which suggest the article is only attacking medical professionals and guards. Pot. Kettle. Black.
Whilst I do not agree with alot of what he says, the dogs on the street know that the public service needs radical reform. That’s hardly a personal criticism, it’s reality! The reaction of people on here is proof that Croke Park is never going to work! Denial!
The government are scared of the unions! It’s that simple! The croke park agreement is proof of that!
I invite the journal to publish a companion piece called ‘how do you solve a problem like the private sector?’ this would be much more useul given it’s the private banking and property sector that caused the crisis. It should based on similar assumpions: that the private sector is incompetent and bloated – which was obviously actually the case prior to the crash – and therefore should be reduced in size and replaced with more public sector provision. Not holding my breath.
Benchmarking was the beginning of the end for this country! That devious power hungry egotistical maniac Bertie Ahern ruined Ireland! And anyone that says different is deluded!
How so mike?
I love the ‘simple steps’ at the end on how to reform the public sector. Especially the first one where it says “identify the needs of the citizen”.
This, in reality, translates to “identify the needs of citizens like me!”
This article is yet more neoliberal hyperbole, promulgating a divide and conquer mentality, all the while pushing a free-market agenda of creating markets where markets don’t already — and should not — exist.
The whole point of a public sector is that it is not driven by profit. That it serves the citizens to the best of the society’s interests, and not the interests of a group of greedy shareholders. Soon enough they’d have you pay to walk along the footpaths, and use a ‘public’ library. Why not charge us for the air we breathe, eh?
While I’m the first to say the public sector needs reform, I’m also the first to say that it should NEVER be privatised. I’m tired of the word ‘economy’ replacing the word ‘society’. They are not the same thing.
Well said! Thumbs up for you!
The public sector…I know two people who did the same job as me in there. I was private.
I was worked to the bone. They were not, at all, and loved it. It was a holiday in comparison.
The public sector is a bloated inefficient group of organisations that needs to be torn down and rebuilt with efficiency at its core. No more jobs for life. Competitiveness is key.
Otherwise let private companies do it.
Yes because private companies worked so well – look at the current situation where all these great ideas about running things has made sure that private companies have all survived the recession intact with no problems.
Oh wait, no, this private-uber-alles rhetoric is just nonsense.
Aidin, your point seems to be that “I was treated like crap in my job so therefore everyone should be treated like crap”, instead of “the public sector people I know, had a good working environment, why isn’t mine like that?” have a think about that, seriously do. People should aim for a positive place to work. Do you want a race to the bottom?
Eoghan, empty comment, grow up.
Scarr:
Don’t put words in my mouth. The cheek of you. Read what I wrote.
I was treated very well actually. But I was worked hard. As i expected to.
I earned my money. I worked for it and received good benefits for my work.
These people didn’t, and admitted how easy it was.
They did were less than 50% as productive as I was.
But we’re paid similar just because of being in public sector.
Their work level would not be tolerated in the private sector. Fact.
Aidan you received benefits your PS friends most likely did not. You were worked to the bone or like a dog, whichever phrase you prefer, and you came out with not much more than your PS friends, sounds like you were taken advantage of in the race to the bottom.
Sounds like you don have a clue.
Sounds like you don’t have a cohesive argument. Thats ok.
Sounds like you don’t understand my argument, and since you have none, it’s game set and match.
So there are private prisons, police force , fire brigades now….. You I think are speaking of friends in the civil service …. There is a difference
Sounds like in all this time you still cannot formulate a proper argument, but instead choose to obfuscate and avoid. If that’s “game set and match” then you must only be used to playing with yourself.
So lets get this straight shall we?
You worked a similar job to 2 (hardly a great sample audience but however…) PS employees (we dont know where yet, Porters?, Surgeons (probably not)?, Accountant? Architects? Cooks? anyway)
You worked harder but were paid less. You see, you should have been paid more because you were doing more (in your eyes anyway) but the race to the bottom that you are taking part in does not allow that. You should be aiming to get what your PS friends are getting and not taking away what your friends work for.
No I believe I was correctly paid. Work should not be an easy ride.
The two people in question admitted to what the free ride they were having. Like all public sector workers when compared to the private equivalent.
It’s why the country is in such a state now after the baking crisis.
Because we’ve a bloated overpaid unefficient workforce in the public sector.
This is held in place by burocracy and unions and will cripple the country until set right.
Social welfare isn’t the problem, the public sector is, politicians included.
So read my words and stop making up stuff you think you’ve read. Delusional is what you seem to be, and probably working in the public sector so wanting to protect your free ride. You are the problem.
Example:
“You should be aiming to get what your PS friends are getting and not taking away what your friends work for.”
Typical scumbag response which is why the public sector is rotten.
The first step to solving the “problem” of the public sector is to stop talking about it as though it was in anyway uniform.
What exactly does an SNA have in common with a senior civil servant? How about an A&E nurse and a school principal?
I’m in favour of reforming many aspects of the way public services are delivered, but I’d advise those responsible for those reforms to avoid taking advice from people who think there are simple solutions that can be applied across all services.
We need to seperate frontline staff from admin staff when talking about public service. The vast majority of frontline staff are very good… but it’s the pen-pushers who are talking the urine. I have heard about many glorified ones with an ECDL course done getting into the public service and thinking their God. Taking colossol amounts of “sick days” with full pay, mileage and total unaccountability. This is where the fat is in the public service and it needs to be put on a strict diet pronto.
Secondly, in our prisons service it’s an absolute scandal the royalty shown to convicts. Steak dinners, playstations, TVs, mobile phones. a daily allowance etc… for alot of convicts life is much better on the inside. It’s like a holiday for them. I’d have them all on chain-gang forced labour cleaning the countryside.
Then don’t forget the TDs… they are supposed to be Public Service too… really though they are all on ego-trips and do very little for the citizen. We need a rate-my-TD voting system where by once a year we score our TDs based upon their performance. I’d have them all on average industrial wage and bonuses will only be awarded based upon their scorecard… now let’s see them work! Also, no expenses allowed… the average Joe does not get free petrol to drive to work from his employer, why should these jokers?
Rant over… for now!
The prison service!!! This would be the same one that’s taking serious heat from human rights groups over the fact that a significant number of in mates still don’t have access to toilet facilities and are slopping out? Sound very cushy to me!
Hi Joseph,
I genuinely feel that if you’re convicted of a crime then your “human rights” should be scaled back… why is society so “bleeding hearts” for the criminals… why do the “do-gooders” feel that criminals should be put up in factilites akin to a 4-star hotel while genuine people struggle to make ends meet and put food on the table for kids? It makes me sick to hear of elderly-care hospitals being scaled back and closed down while the criminals get looked after no-end… the priorities of the “do-gooders” are arseways and Government is listening to them too much. I hope you never suffer the wrath of a criminal Joseph, but if you unfortunately do, I am pretty sure your attitude will change then!
Also, every first year student should be made visit these jails where they slop-out etc… would put criminality out of their heads.
Well said Daniel , except prisoners should not be slopping out , not just for their sake ….but for the sake of the staff working in these conditions. Playstations and x boxes should not be allowed in cells, or tv ‘s for that …
Daniel, like most people I have at one stage or another been a victim of crime both directly and indirectly and yes, at the time I was angry and wanted blood but I’m bright enough to look through my anger. Yes, prison should be basic, things like TV should be communal and rewards for good behaviour and phone facilities should be hard line, monitored and rassioned, but I’m sorry no matter what they’ve done they are people and deserve a toilet, name me a 4* hotel where you dump into a chamber pot and clean it out yourself the next day!! As for bringing kids to see it to out them off crime, people don’t go on the rob thinking of the concequences, they do it because the want or in the worst circumstances, need, the things they are after
While the public sector lament the fact they’ve taken paycuts, the private sector are loosing their jobs. Over these last few years private sector business and its employees are doing significantly more with significantly less resources. The public service must be overhauled. It’s employees must be performance managed and outputs measured against Target. This is how a supermarket worker is managed…
A great many who trained for years to work in the public sector have not just lost jobs, but have had to flee the country because the so called “efficient” and “dynamic” private sector raped the public purse and we can no longer afford to hire the nurses and physios and doctors currently found filling airline seats.
Next time you see a registrar after her 36 hour shift or watch a nurse scraping diarrhoea out of his uniform, tell them they’re in need of being performance managed. I’m sure they’ll be most appreciative.
@ Eoghan: You know as well as I do hat the public sector is far more than doctors or nurses. It’s the civil service, the various government bodies, the quangos as well. And in the latter I am sure there are plenty of cases where performance does need to be managed.
Likewise @ many of those above: The private sector isn’t just the bankers or the developers. It is the shop owners, the small business people as well as the many large businesses including multinationals i.e. the people exporting and paying tax to fund those in the public sector.
Sadly this has turned into a private sector verses public sector juvenile slanging match, rather than a debate on which functions can be best provided by the private sector and which best by the public sector.
Ryan Allen
I believe you , like a good many others , are confused between the public service and the civil service … I was apublic service worker and I get quite annoted at this generalisation . Public service and civil service are not the same .
@ Susie: In my book civil service are those who work in the Departments of State (e.g. Department of Finance, Department of Health etc) and those who work in agencies/bodies under the direct control of these Departments.
The public sector includes the civil service, but also nurses, teachers, doctors, firefighters, Courts system, HSE administrators and those working in quangos which are not directly under the control of any Department of State.
Do you disagree with that definition?
@O’Reilly: “The public service must be overhauled. It’s employees must be performance managed and outputs measured against Target”.
Can you explain how a nurse, teacher, guard, fireman, paramedic can be performance managed? And what tangible outputs and targets can you measure them against? I would be genuinely interested to hear your take on it.
Ryan Allen
To answer your question , I disagree with your definition . Public service is , Gardai, prison service, army , fire service, nurses, and teachers. Quangos ???? I certainly would not put them with public servants. All the administration work is civil service .
Our public services undoubtably have persons working in it who range from extremely competent to the incompetent, I deal with government services regularly and in the main the experience is positive. I suppose the perception is that incompetence is easier to deal with in the private sector. Maybe the real debate should be what services do we want our government to provide us with? The next question would then be how should those services be provided? by that I mean the most cost effective way, be that directly or contracted out to appropriate private service providers.
If incompetence was so easy to deal with in the private sector there would never have been a bank collapse or a bailout. Incompetence is in all areas, both private and public, but if we’re being honest incompetence in the private sector has us in all this mess.
Dave you’re so wrong. Greed is what messed up the private sector. It was the incompetence of the public sector, ie. BANK REGULATORS, that let the greedy away with it when their sole responsibility was to watch them. The banks knew well what they were doing, the regulators and planning authorities unfortunately hadn’t a clue. I am sick of the private sector being bashed for causing the mess. There were more public servants responsible than private – Government, Regulators and planning authorities all asleep at the wheel or taking bribes! Stop deluding yourself!
He’s not the deluded one here diarmuid
Ok Mattoid, what’s your take so? What was the responsibility of the regulators, planning authorities and government so during the noughties? Presume one liners is the extent of your knowledge on the situation!
You are deluded and simplistic in saying that the public sector were the ones mainly responsible for the current mess. Sure, there were serious deficiencies in regulation, but don’t forget that much of this was due to govenment policy, much of it emanating from Charlie ‘King of Deregulation’ McCreevy (I still can’t believe he’s ridden away into the sunset without the spotlight coming onto his actions). Its not for nothing that Ireland had a reputation throughout the world as the ‘Wild West’ of financial services.
But poor regulation was only one aspect – the complete social irresponsibility of the private financial and construction sector was the main driving force behind the boom-bust. Its just not good enough for you to dismiss this as greed, as if this makes it ok. They were either incompetent (if they didn’t understand the consequences of the path they were treading) or treacherous (if they were aware of the social irresponsibility of what they were doing).
I will disregard your ad hominem remark about me
I am not dismissing the private sectors large part in this. But for people to come on here and say the private sector were solely responsible is ludicrous! Without the incompetence of the public sector the few rotten eggs in the private sector wouldn’t have been allowed act so recklessly. I am saying both are to blame! I am sick of hearing the same public servants who complain about being accused of taking no pain and being lazy, criticise the whole entire private sector for being 100% responsible for the crash, not seeing the irony and hypocrisy of their argument. Yes, sure, the man on minimum wage in your local Spar is to blame, the woman in the local dry cleaners, I am to blame etc etc! The public sector workers on here are creating and spouting more fantasies and untruths which drive a wedge between the two sides than anyone they complain about! So I say it again, I am not the deluded one, just take a step back and analyse all of the reports and tribunals!
Dave, unfortunately neither sector has a monopoly on incompetence which is why I used the term petception above. I wad hoping the debate would move towards what could be contracted out. For example as far as I know the management of the processing of the Dept of Ah livestock records are both contracted out. Even Revenue subcontract out some tax collection. These are all processes that work well. Even waste collection in large parts of the country had been contracted out with no undue difficulties so it can be done if its gone about the right way. That’s not to say everything should be contracted out though as certain functions are not suitable for contracting out.
@SeanNorris: I agree that not all privatisations have been poor, but there seems to be quite a few of them. Eircom and waste collection spring to mind. Much poorer service for hugely inflated cost to the consumer. You’re absolutely right that it should be done where sensible but the author of the article seems to be pushing for a near-total abolition of public services without any logical thought of the consequences of this.
This article was written by someone who makes their living as a consultant. A consultant has been defined as someone who borrows your watch to tell you the time, and then keeps your watch. Their credo is “learn to be sincere even if you have to fake it”. I’ll take the opinion of people who do real work over that of a consultant any day.
Some good points raised here but yet again I am bored and tired of the lazy journalism and opinion that comes from the likes of Independent Newspapers, people like Eddie Hobbs and media like Newstalk that simply lump all the Private Sector into the one box. I doubt there is any public sector worker that doesn’t agree that reform is needed but when is a journalist or commentator actually going to go to the trouble to separate out those wasteful and unnecessary sections of the public sector and comment on them rather than raising the ire of all public sector workers by tarring us all with the same brush? It’s akin to me saying all Private Sector workers get bonuses, some do, most don’t. Much of the public sector does require reform but it is such a diverse area with a wide range of functions and professions that it is so frustrating to once again read an article where the writer hasn’t bothered to take the time to identify the areas that don’t work from the areas that do.
As I said some good points, but I wish someone would actually do some real journalistic work which involves more thorough research on this topic.
For second line “Private Sector” read PUBLIC SECTOR!!!!. Must learn not to type so fast!
How about taxing the super wealthy to get some much needed investment in the public service? How about capping the pay at €100,000 so as to have more funding for front line services? The public service does need reform but it doesn’t need Right-Wing agenda setters like Mr McGrane pontificating about the the dangers of “big government” and the private sector being superior. If it was so superior it wouldn’t have needed to be bailed out with tax payers money, money that could have gone to public services.
Queue Public Sector bashing!
@Robert nobody is stopping you from taking up a public sector job, if you’re so unhappy with your 12 hour shifts.
Think you missed the point Carol :-/
I work in the public sector….??? I was stating the author of the article was an ass and he should come and do my job and see how cushy it is…. :-/
and I think his profile pic gave it away too carol……..
Carol
I worked in the public Sector and only worked 12 hr shifts…
Now I think you are one of the many who are confused as to the difference between public service and the civil service…. :)
Who cares, we all know that what we’re talking about services funded by tax payer money.
censored
I care ! I worked in the civil service and then transferred to the public service , so yes I care a lot .
Whenever any suggestion of public sector reform comes up there is always a big wave of moaning resistance and opposition! Guys we have to get real and burst this bubble that so many are living in. The fact of the matter is, if any private sector organisation was running at the same output and quality of service as our public sector, taking a pay cut cut be the least of your worries! U would have no pay as the company would be gone! Simple as that! If you want a fair society with an efficient and functional public sector we need to start treating it like a business, bring in accountability and constantly review performance. Those who do t perform are out straight away, no moaning or groaning, u didn’t perform so goodbye! That is real world reality and the way it should be. I’m not saying working conditions or pay shouldn’t be to a good standard, they should be as an incentive to motivate people to work hard and want to keep their jobs.
Gzeit, banks in the private sector were running at the same output and quality of services. Not only do they get to keep their pay rates, but continue to receive bonuses as a reward for the failure of their businesses.
Well said Gzeit! I blame the teachers for most of the problem in the public service! If only they had to prove themselves worthy of the job they’re massively overpaid to do! My middle sons teacher seems to come and go as she pleases, having missed up to 20 days since the school year started in September! And even when she does show up, she’s generally late! My youngest sons teacher swans off for three weeks to get married in the middle of term! Where in the private sector would this be tolerated?
@MikeScott:” I blame the teachers for most of the problem in the public service!”
You give two examples out of approximately 60,000 teachers in Ireland. It’s a bit of a leap to blame teachers for most of the problems in the public sector on that kind of ratio don’t you think? “I blame 0.00333% of teachers in this country on the problems in the public service” is what you’re essentially saying.
Secondly, what are you basing the idea that Irish teachers are “massively overpaid” on?
Third, why should teachers have to justify their jobs? They went through a selection process like you would to get any other job. Why should teachers be singled out for this?
Finally, did you know that the idea that all teachers in Ireland are permanent and pensionable is actually a myth? There are approximately 27,000 teachers in Ireland who are not permanent. That’s not including those who are unemployed due to the reduction in teachers since 2009.
I do agree with the article to some extent. I am a public servant. Some people just take the piss in the public service. I work hard all week, no other choice, just like the author of this article. We all had a choice in life, my choice was to go for a career in the public service, I got one. Enjoying my job as it is what I am qualified in.
Some people are just jealous that they took the wrong career and are now out of work and it is the public sectors fault?
The public sector might need reform but what works for one department might not work for another. It’s easy to say it’s bloated and inefficient but that doesn’t work across the board. Look at the defence forces, it took 10 years yo streamline, it’s numbers had to be cut by a third and in turn the the workload had to increase for every member. Now, despite it’s reductions (both in manpower and budget) it’s far better value for money. Could this be applied in every dept? I’d doubt it. Could it be applied to the public sector as a whole? Definitely not! I don’t know how to make it better but for some reason the thought of privatizing it makes me very uncomfortable. I just feel that if it’s privatized it’ll be about the pursuit of profit rather then about providing the best service for the people of this country, be they private sector, public sector, unemployed or whatever. Remember, public servants depend on the public service too so it’s in their interest for it to provide the best services possible! Then again it seems like it’s all about being a good economy first and a good society second.
It depends what is privatised though Gearóid. For example the State owns two of the three energy companies operating here – Bord Gáis and ESB. Is that necessary? Yet on the other hand there are things which can’t be privatised – regulation and policy making for example. However some of the services provided to these public sector workers could be further outsourced – for example cleaning, payroll, recruitment, IT services etc.
You may need to check the stats about the Defence Forces, it was the only sector of the public sector not to increase numbers during the Celtic tiger years and have heard a number of business hold it up as an example of public sector reform as the recession hit
I did say they reduced their numbers by a third and that they were a good example of reform. The point I was making was that it was over a relatively long period and that the same approach wouldn’t necessarily work for other departments and that in fact there’s probably no magic solution for reforming the public sector as a single entity!
@ Andrew – Why not apply that to every job in the country so both public and private sector?
Google lean manufacturing or lean six sigma. Hire me!!! Or hire a bunch of process engineers to sort any problems you may have.
So what if this guy is a Managing Director on a big salary, that is the reward for running an efficient company that provides the consumer with value for money and not to mention private sector employment.
A public sector worker at a similar level of management is paid a similar wage for a shoddy service, with a lack of long term and strategic vision. We have taken pay cuts in the private sector too, quit moaning and start coming up with ideas.
He is joking, isn’t he? Think banks and them read the article again. Who rescued the banks and the economy when the private sector banks destroyed them? The public sector is our guarantee that we will survive the next such collapse. The real lessons of the collapse and rescue have yet to be learned.
Eoghan, we all have hard days… as for performance management there are good & bad workers in every walk of life. However, the private sector are much less tolerant. Your argument that Private sector can’t be that efficient if its going to the wall is nonsense – thats a matter of supply & demand. Perhaps if like the public sector we had Unions & a fearfull Gov propping us up we’d be better off…
The realities of many public sector frontline jobs is that the “hard days” are every day.
There is no private sector equivalent of the Garda sent to tell a man that his wide has just been killed in her car, or of the fire crew who cut her out of the wreckage, the paramedic who kept the child on the back seat alive long enough to get to A&E or the medical staff who looked after him once he got there.
These are the so called “cushy” public sector jobs that are allegedly so easy to do they shouldn’t even get sick pay or holidays.
Eoghan, as I have said before, the battle should not be public V private… it should be Private and Public FRONTLINE Versus Public Admin
Very few doubt the hard work undertaken by frontline public staff, the nurses, guards teachers etc…
“These are the so called “cushy” public sector jobs that are allegedly so easy to do they shouldn’t even get sick pay or holidays.”
Eoghan, O’Reilly didn’t say that. Do you agree with County Council bosses getting in excess of 40 days off per year? Do you agree with the large number of HSE administration staff employed, when many of these positions could probably be done away with? Do you agree with those who haven’t done their job properly being kept on and indeed being promoted based on longevity rather than ability?
3 simple word… Performance related pay.
Every management position in the public sector gets €8.65 an hour to show up at work
And every € above that is based on the number of passengers you move, paitents you treat, the hours/days they are kept waiting, how many pupils graduate and go onto college, the satisfaction rating of your ‘customers’ with the service, what percentage you are over or under budget…
You simply can’t judge many of these jobs with a factory floor or Ryanair mentality.
How would you measure that with terminal cancer patients? Would you give them a pay bump to get to more patients and therefore reduce the level of care to everyone, or would you suggest letting them die asap so the doctor or nurse could cover more patients?
If you applied this to results and teachers, good teachers would flock to good schools, while poorer teachers would be left in disadvantaged schools. All this would do is grow the divide between different parts of society and would have an incredibly detrimental effect to our society.
Would kinda work… but say a surgon trying to operate on 5 extra patients a day to earn extra €€€ there would undoubtfully be cock-ups… not good for poor patient!
Well I don’t know about the rest of you but I cannot see how this idea could possibly fail! Nope, totally bulletproof in terms of logic and human nature. People would never be corrupted in order to pass more pupils to boost their meagre wage, nor would any medical personnel ( the talented lot who would work for 8.65 in the 1st place) be likely to lower standards in patient care in order to earn a living wage. Nope, rock solid idea. Hats off to you sir, you’ve solved it!
Well that’s where statistics and standardization, deviation and curves come into place.
If your a doctor and you treat a type of cancer with a 10% mortality rate and 15% of your patients die you fail
If you treat a cancer with a 60% mortality rate and 80% of them survive you win
If your a teacher and your really bright students disimprove year on year on a standardized test you loose… If your ‘disadvantaged’ students improve… They may still be failing comparatively but your doing your job more effectively
How about this if you’re a good teacher… You get promoted to principal over a completely incompetent teacher who’s being teaching for ten more years and thus has more seniority
I dont think this will work. It is giving a greater weighting to quantity rather than quality. As for the last suggestion regarding principals, well that would take a good teacher out of the class and put them in a managerial role.
I think you have good intentions but your thinking is flawed, the services you have used are there to provide something for society not to hit targets. Incentivised pay for departments such as my own which is mainly admin and case processing, bring it on, makes perfect sense and would weed out some of the seniority promotions crew in months!!
What a load of sloppily-written waffle. Given the apparet “strength” of his opinions, you’d think this person would be able to provide detail, analysis and proposed solutions.
Half their pay. Double the workforce.
Simples.com
Simpleton.com judging by that suggestion.
The problem will not be resolved until the lunatics are stopped from running the asylum!!
I apologise in advance, but the above comments are very upsetting, how much we have grown apart as a society. My response will not fit in a post so here’s a link, sorry Journal People.
http://diarmaidtwomey.blogspot.com/2012/04/public-v-private-argumental-epitome-of.html
No Thomas, I’ve never wanted to work in the public sector and still don’t. I’d like to see more value for my tax money, and I’d like to see us sort out the massive entitlement culture in publicly funded services.
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