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Column It is wrong to assume all asylum seekers are faking it - and the media is to blame

Thousands of people applied to become Irish citizens last year – but the media only focuses on scare stories about immigration, writes Greg Straton.

How many read or heard the news that over 25,000 people from 112 countries applied last year to be citizens of a state with a banjaxed economy? Or that 164,000 people from outside the European Economic Area, most of them from India, applied to live in that state?

It would seem newsworthy to report that so many people from so many countries would want to become citizens of such a state. After all, one would expect people to be leaving an economically challenged country.

But it is Ireland, in fact, that is the aforementioned economically troubled state. However much distraction was caused by the fact that Ireland was supposedly overwhelmed last year by 1,250 people who came here seeking protection from tyranny, torture and fear; the much maligned asylum seeker.

It is amazing that those 1,250 applications for asylum made up barely one percent of the 164,000 applications for visas, citizenship and protection received by the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service in 2011 – however they received the most attention.

How the media missed the real story of immigration in Ireland in 2011

The phrase “missing the wood for the trees” springs to mind when looking at how the media covered Minister for Justice Alan Shatter’s statement on immigration in Ireland in 2011. The Irish Times put on its front page on Wednesday that the number of asylum seekers had fallen due to the recession and tougher controls. The Irish Independent reported that over 4,000 people were deported from Ireland in 2011. Actually only 280 people were deported. The other 3,700 people were refused entry to the state when they arrived at our airports. Radio stations and news websites used the Irish Times report and focused on the number of asylum seekers rather than other aspects of the statement.

In a wide ranging statement from the Minister, there was much to report. There was, for example, the more than 25,000 people from 112 countries applying to be citizens, the fact that our cash-strapped state earned €29 million from issuing visas and other registration fees, or that 32,000 non-EEA people resident in Ireland are students who attend our financially beleaguered education institutions and pay international fees.

The announcement that through the visa waiver programme Ireland is targeting particular key tourism markets (i.e. countries such as Brazil and China) to encourage people who intend to visit London during the Olympic Games this year to also visit Ireland. Another little reported story is that civilian staff will perform immigration control at the airports instead of Gardaí. There was ample material in the Minister’s statement to report on but for some reason the media chose to focus on a tiny portion of the migrants who arrived in 2011.

When the media chooses to focus its attention on those seeking asylum it perpetuates many of the false ideas about asylum seekers, such as the simplistic assumption that all asylum seekers are simply economic migrants abusing the system to gain access to the labour market.

At the Spiritan Asylum Services Initiative (SPIRASI) we provide services for survivors of torture and others who have been subjected to serious human rights abuses, to work with them to overcome the impact of their experiences. Of the 1,250 people who sought asylum in the state in 2011 14 per cent were referred to our Centre by medical and legal professionals and were clinically assessed and admitted to our services. We have cared for over 3,200 people since 2001 and have an active caseload of 700 people – men and women, who have survived some of the most unimaginable atrocities that leave deep physical and mental scars.

It is simply wrong to assume that all asylum seekers are faking it so that they can avail of better economic opportunities.

Not all immigrants as asylum seekers – despite the media perception…

The further injustice caused by such reporting is the perception that all immigrants are asylum seekers. Asylum seekers are a tiny minority of the larger non-EEA national group that currently reside in the state, which has been estimated in the statement at 130,500 people; of this group asylum seekers in direct provision constitute only 5,400 or 4.1%. The next time you see or interact with someone from a non-EEA country the overwhelming possibility is that they are a student or economic migrant, not an asylum seeker.

It is understandable why this happens. Asylum seekers are a soft target. They are vulnerable and completely dependent on the state. By law, asylum seekers are forbidden to work, and are by design, forced to avail of direct provision accommodation. This makes them open to accusations of sponging off the state or being indolent or lazy. Asylum seekers have absolutely no power to change their situation and are subject to the policies of the state. There is no negative fallout to bashing asylum seekers at a time when sentiment, understandably, is to look after ourselves before others.

It is time for the debate and discussion around these issues to become much more rooted in fact and less concerned with the sensationalistic marginalisation of a very vulnerable group.

Greg Straton is the Director of the Spiritan Asylum Services Initiative (SPIRASI) based on the North Circular Road in Dublin which assists asylum seekers and refugees. It is the only organisation in Ireland that provides care for survivors of torture.

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    Mute Rocky Dennis
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    Jan 9th 2012, 7:44 AM

    It is not wrong to assume they are bogus when they arrive to these shores….a huge amount of them are. Unless they can be confirmed as genuine refugees they should be treated as bogus. Most have fake documents so confirming their true nationality and identity can be a problem…

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    Mute Si Mon
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    Jan 9th 2012, 8:01 AM

    Rocky I take it you work in the asylum process and know this information first hand or is it media and political hype and you are actually speaking with no knowledge of the system or the situations of those that find themselves in it?

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    Mute Rocky Dennis
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    Jan 9th 2012, 8:03 AM

    Correct, I am involved in the industry…

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    Mute Si Mon
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    Jan 9th 2012, 8:07 AM

    Maybe you should reconsider your position if you believe people fleeing persecution and seeking a better life for themselves and their family is an “industry”. That is just a sick comment!

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    Mute Gearóid Ó Murchadha
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    Jan 9th 2012, 8:13 AM

    It is wrong to make assumptions about anything. I don’t usually get knocked down crossing the road but I don’t assume that I never will! For starters, the article was about asylum seekers, NOT refugees. Should I assume that you are unable to read or have a short attention span or are completely ignorant of the issue or just plain ignorant because you appear to not even know the difference between the two? Or should I give you the benefit of the doubt and hope it was a simple error?

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    Mute Donal McCarthy
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    Jan 9th 2012, 9:07 AM

    Si mon – the problem is that you clearly see no real difference between people ‘fleeing persecution’ (genuine refugees) and those ‘seeking a better life for themselves and their family’ (economic migrants).

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    Mute Ted Power
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    Jan 9th 2012, 9:17 AM

    This was in the Waco Tribune Herald, Waco , TX Nov 18, 2010

    Put me in charge . . .

    Put me in charge of food stamps. I’d get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho’s, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

    Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I’d do is to get women Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we’ll test recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get tats and piercings, then get a job.

    Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks?
    You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your “home” will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your own place.

    In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or you will report to a “government” job. It may be cleaning the roadways of trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers and put that money toward the “common good..”

    Before you write that I’ve violated someone’s rights, realize that all of the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules.. Before you say that this would be “demeaning” and ruin their “self esteem,” consider that it wasn’t that long ago that taking someone else’s money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.

    If we are expected to pay for other people’s mistakes we should at least attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.

    AND While you are on Gov’t subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes that is correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov’t welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 9th 2012, 9:33 AM

    The fact is even the genuine refugees (who I have no problem with what so ever) can flee to much closer places than Ireland to escape persecution, lets be honest and shed the political correct bull $hit, the reason Ireland has been a hugely popular destination is due to financial benefits.

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 9th 2012, 9:41 AM

    The people who should be looked after by our correct social protection system is the people who have contributed and nobody else.

    i.e. people who have been working here over the last 3 – 20 years and not breaking the law, whether they are Irish or not, refugees should not get the same level of care, they should get basic levels and treated with respect like a human being and nothing more.

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 9th 2012, 9:52 AM

    Unless of course they later qualify by staying out of trouble for the alloted amount of time and pay their tax contributions.

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    Mute joseph mcgee
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    Jan 9th 2012, 11:32 AM

    rocky, ur involved in the “industry”?
    thanks for clarifying that u have no involvement whatsoever.
    ya big spoofer!

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    Mute Rocky Dennis
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    Jan 9th 2012, 11:45 AM

    Thing is Si Mon, maybe you aren’t aware of this, not all Asylum Seekers are genuine, in fact quite a huge percentage are not. sorry to burst your cozy bubble. Most are “Economic Migrants” who clog up the system with fake stories and fake documents blocking up the whole system and make it extremely difficult for GENUINE ones. As for using the term “Industry”, term of phrase, you must live quite a sheltered existence if this offends you.

    Gearoid, Asylum Seekers/Refugees, when they arrive unannounced, they are the same. They both claim to be fleeing persecution, wars, discrimination etc etc. Two sides of the same coin. I am not making assumptions just spelling it out as it is, if you dont agree with me thats your business. You are entitled to your opinion as am I. I just tend to know what I am talking about from experience not assumptions, media or whatever…

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    Mute Rocky Dennis
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    Jan 9th 2012, 11:48 AM

    Thing is Si Mon, maybe you aren’t aware of this, not all Asylum Seekers are genuine, in fact quite a huge percentage are not. sorry to burst your cozy bubble. Most are “Economic Migrants” who clog up the system with fake stories and fake documents blocking up the whole system and make it extremely difficult for GENUINE ones. As for using the term “Industry”, term of phrase, you must live quite a sheltered existence if this offends you.

    Gearoid, Asylum Seekers/Refugees, when they arrive unannounced, they are the same. They both claim to be fleeing persecution, wars, discrimination etc etc. Two sides of the same coin. I am not making assumptions just spelling it out as it is, if you dont agree with me thats your business. You are entitled to your opinion as am I. I just tend to know what I am talking about from experience not assumptions, media or whatever..

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    Mute Rocky Dennis
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    Jan 9th 2012, 11:53 AM

    Good man Joseph…..I think your household charge is due…pay up, we have a plane load from Northern Nigeria to feed…

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    Mute joseph mcgee
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    Jan 9th 2012, 12:07 PM

    well pa, if u dont know my stance of household charge its simple, i wont be payin no matter what.

    of course u are entitled to ur opinion same as everyone.
    i just think that u shouldnt be saying ur involved in the asylum process when ur not,
    and using ur ‘insider’ knowledge to back up ur opinion.
    what ever happened to ur museum job?

    this is my opinion and i hope u have a sense of humour…
    they wouldnt let u within a asses roar of the asylum process

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 9th 2012, 12:30 PM

    Well Joseph I can promise you I have experience which comes in line with it and had dealings with it in the past, not the direct applications but with the applicants and this is not something the media have spun, it’s genuine and on horrendous levels.

    It fails the Irish people at 3 out of the 4 corners.

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    Mute Rocky Dennis
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    Jan 9th 2012, 12:45 PM

    OK OK, Joseph you got me, I work in a Musuem…..now that I think of it, the other day was that you who was shuffling around the skull in the Tyrannosaur Rex Exhibit naked from the waist down….watching me, what else do you think or need do know about me..? I can send you a “picture” for a small fee…The thing is Joseph whether you like it or not, I am speaking from daily working experiences, whats your angle on it? Truth hurts sometimes Joseph, it aint all that rosy….

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    Mute joseph mcgee
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    Jan 9th 2012, 12:58 PM

    gerard, i know virtually nothing of all things asylum seeking.
    i’ve no reason to doubt u or rocky, nor could i dispute either of ur opinions.

    i posted as i get a sick kick outta catchin rocky out,
    tho on other issues i can find myself in agreement with him.

    sad? most definitely!

    rocky, couldn’t have been me, when i go native, its the full monty for me.
    c’mon rocky, be a man, own up, u were bullshittin,,
    c’mon pa…tell the truth and shame the devil….u can do it…:-)

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 9th 2012, 1:01 PM

    Bow your head in shame Rocky.

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    Mute Rocky Dennis
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    Jan 9th 2012, 1:55 PM

    Joseph, I say it as I see it and I as i deal with it. No reason to bullshit. As for catching me out, dont know what you have “caught me out” on, I am in the dark on that one or as one maight say to a Judge, “I am in your hands, Judge”. We more often disagree on things but on occasion I am in agreement with you.

    Gerard, no need to bow my head in shame, I am speaking the truth as you know.

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 9th 2012, 2:04 PM

    I was only joining the banter as I agree with what you are saying Rocky.

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    Mute Rocky Dennis
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    Jan 9th 2012, 2:13 PM

    @Gerard – Green Thumb!

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    Mute Doc Benway
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    Jan 9th 2012, 6:22 PM

    They took our jobs! Durp a durp!

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    Mute Joan O'Connell
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    Jan 10th 2012, 4:43 PM

    Is that you, Donncha?

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    Mute Heihachi
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    Jan 11th 2012, 11:23 AM

    It’s fair to say rocky that your have some sick delusions, but your type is beyond help, so it’s no use arguing with ya. Until this country sorts out a system where assylum seekers have a legal entitlement to work (and then pay tax) we will still be having this stupid conversation about them coming over here and ‘taking our money’, i’m sure if you talked to most assylum seekers they’d prefer to go out and work than staying on welfare money..if they were allowed to

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    Mute Pat Shannon
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    Jan 9th 2012, 7:55 AM

    I am all for people trying to make a better life for themselves. But correct me if I am wrong. Are asylum seekers supposed to claim asylum in the first country they enter and not keep moving until they get here ?

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    Mute DubInNaas
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    Jan 9th 2012, 9:11 AM

    Under the Dublin Agreement, any undocumented person who arrives in an EU Country should be processed in that country.

    It suits some countries to let them slip through on the basis they move on immediately, and many arrive into Ireland hidden in container units, etc

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    Mute Damien Kelly
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    Jan 9th 2012, 8:01 AM

    Refreshing to hear an argument void of fear pandering and mis-information when it comes to immigration.

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    Mute Tiny Tomato
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    Jan 9th 2012, 9:23 AM

    Technically, we shouldn’t have any asylum seekers here as they are meant to claim asylum in the first EU country they land in. There was no direct flights to Ireland from these countries which meant that they first had to land in an EU country (where they should’ve claimed asylum) before traveling here. But, they came to Ireland because of the fantastic benefits, now we are broke and can’t get rid of the feckers.

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    Mute Pen Name
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    Jan 9th 2012, 8:46 AM

    “1,250 people who came here seeking protection from tyranny, torture and fear; ”

    Correction: “alleged tyranny, torture and fear”.

    A little accuracy and balance please.

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    Mute BcuTCM0P
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    Jan 9th 2012, 8:24 AM

    The distraction is that the other 99% will have to work to feed themselves. If it costs the state roughly €300 a week to feed, house and clothe each asylum seeker (just an assumption but doesn’t seem very high) that comes to almost €20,000,000 per year. So the government has a right and a duty to expose any false applications, especially in state the country finds it self at the moment.

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    Mute KarlMarcks
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    Jan 9th 2012, 8:40 AM

    The usual racists appear like cockroaches to spread their bile. Here’s the thing: if this failed country had to take back all the Paddy illegals in the US (and not a single asylum seeker among them) the numbers would swamp the system here and cost multiples more.

    Get a grip, folks. Sauce for the goose and all that.

    And another proverb: birds of a feather. The ‘industry’ attracts racist authoritarians into its enforcement ranks.

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    Mute Gearóid Ó Murchadha
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    Jan 9th 2012, 9:04 AM

    Racism? Where? This discussion, like the article, is about asylum seekers and the asylum process. It’s not the same thing. I can’t help but feel that you’re trying to stir shit.

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 9th 2012, 10:05 AM

    Where in any of this is their racism? Your suggestion to this has no basis and is insulting, possibly illegal.

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 9th 2012, 10:06 AM

    *there

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 9th 2012, 10:10 AM

    Also “Paddy Illegals” in the US? Do you know Irish history? The famine and real reasons to emigrate and let me tell you they got no flipping assistance when they landed in the US of A, how many natives of America are there in America? We helped build it to what it is today FACT.

    Get off your political correct horse and smell the turf of reality, if this world was ideal then we would not need to be writing here.

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    Mute Brian Ward
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    Jan 9th 2012, 11:03 AM

    Karl, I object to your use of the word “Paddy” to describe Irish people. It is demeaning, derogatory and RACIST.

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    Mute jason bourne
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    Jan 9th 2012, 11:34 AM

    U tool, all the Irish ‘paddys’ would probably come back if there was work

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    Jan 9th 2012, 9:40 PM

    Interesting you should mention the US. Paddy illegals over there have no option but to work or starve. They don’t get a cent in welfare.

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    Mute Susan Shaffer Singleton
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    Jan 14th 2012, 8:03 PM

    All those Paddys working in the U.S.A. are still illegals and taking jobs they have no right to. they are no better than an illegal immigrant here in Ireland.

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    Mute Martin Jordan
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    Jan 9th 2012, 8:23 AM

    @pat I think your right. It’s something I could never understand why Spain and Italy aren’t the number 1 countries for people seeking asylum due to there proximity to Africa. Why keep moving to ireland and the UK ?

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    Mute Richard Fennessy
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    Jan 9th 2012, 8:27 AM

    Welfare tourists

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    Mute Si Mon
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    Jan 9th 2012, 8:31 AM

    For a number of years now they have these things called planes that fly over southern europe to northern countries such as Ireland and the UK. Not all asylum seekers come on boats!

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    Mute DubInNaas
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    Jan 9th 2012, 9:16 AM

    @martin johnson
    Italy and Spain are scourged by illegal immigration.
    They travel straight across the Med.

    We should thank God that we are an island off an island and it was really only the lure of the ‘celtic chernobyl’ that brought most of them here.

    Numbers have dried up which demonstrates most are welfare tourists drased up with a hard-luck story.

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    Mute Phil Mc Donald
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    Jan 9th 2012, 11:15 AM

    Jim Brady, surely pointing out other”’s use of apostrophes is nit picking? You must hate yourself, so. :)

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    Mute Ciaro
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    Jan 9th 2012, 8:19 AM

    There’s a vast difference between fleeing persecution and seeking a better life.

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    Mute Eamonn Clancy
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    Jan 9th 2012, 8:02 AM

    I wonder how much it cots us to process applications etc, a lot more than 32 million euros.

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    Mute Tom Healy
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    Jan 9th 2012, 8:19 PM

    I cannot understand why we issue work permits to so many non EU nationals when we have so many people on social welfare.

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 10th 2012, 7:37 PM

    Simply put, it makes no sense what so ever.

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    Mute Laura Marie Purcell
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    Jan 9th 2012, 10:25 AM

    I think that the pamela case last year done an awful lot of damage to the credibilty of asylum seekers, and legal immigrants too…finally people had solid proof of the lenghts that people will go to stay here…im quite aware some asylum seekers are nothing other than economic migrants, but i also know that some are genuine asylum seekers…the refusal rate for first applications is something like 95%…why dont the people processing go do the background check correctly the first time, and the decide…it is inhuman to leave someone in limbo for 5 to 6 year…what i would propose would be you apply and if you are unsuccessful you get at most 2 appeals…that would take a year to 18 month max, if you were unsuccessful there would be much less problems with passports etc

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 9th 2012, 12:41 PM

    95% first time refusal rate is something the government is spinning us and most win on appeal with no proper identification and generally they are been given new record free lives as a high number of these people are law breakers too and break the law in Ireland again while on these refugee status’.

    I heard from a source that while part of the status is that they do not become known to law enforcement while under specific probation (generally a four year period) that upon conviction the court services are not making GNIB aware of this and therefore criminals are being allowed stay in the country where their status should be revoked.

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    Mute Eugene O' neill
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    Jan 9th 2012, 8:19 AM

    Unfortunately to this day in the 21st century billion’s of people live in complete poverty and for many year’s to come.
    Until the people of war-torn countries and tyranny’s rise up to clam their countries to be a peaceful state.. asylum seeker’s will continue to seek asylum.
    As for number’s on immigrants,With the boarder with the north being a heaven for illegal immigrant’s,who really know’s?

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    Mute Jim Brady
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    Jan 9th 2012, 9:32 AM

    2 things in life I hate:
    nit picking,
    & overuse of the apostrophe.

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    Mute Eugene O' neill
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    Jan 9th 2012, 9:44 AM

    Yes my little finger seem”’s to like that key :)

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    Mute Thomas Reade-Duncan
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    Jan 9th 2012, 4:12 PM

    “Most have false documents” WHO have these False/Fake Papers then?????. OH I remember its our own Irish in Australia , America and other Country’s, COP ON and respect these most misfortune Peoples and lets hope our own are NOT treated with such Contempt and Disrespect as some of you on here and in Ireland do to ALL sort of Non Irish in this Ireland of ours. IF YOU ALL HAD to go and live abroad you would not be so SMUG , You would realize how HARD it is for any person living in a strange place and NO FAMILY support.

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    Mute Ruri Devlin
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    Jan 10th 2012, 3:08 AM

    it seems very easy, and can even appear rational, to follow a line of strict regulations controlling people and their movements. when such opinions are proposed by people who allegedly work in the field they can even appear to hold some position of authority. however, even 50 years working in an area, without a critical and investigative attitude, does not mean that one knows anything about a subject. prison guards in nazi camps could, after years of dedicated guarding, attest rationally to the idea that those they were abusing were low forms of life. this does not make them correct.
    without taking information in context it is just a detail floating in a sea of ignorance, and without taking the fact of migration in context we can apply all sorts of faulty reasoning to the topic. the basic fact that we have created and live in a society which protects the wealthy and criminalises poverty is vital to this conversation. i’m not going to try and describe this world in detail here, but a cusuory glance at our own ‘republican democracy’ in operation over the past 30 years should be informative enough. the commentors on this thread who glibly denounce fellow human beings, en masse, while pretending to subscribe to humanitarian ideals, are sorely lacking in a basic understanding of the human condition, or empathy. i hope for their sakes that they do not have to experience first hand the conditions of asylum seeking, or even that of ‘economic migration’, which is often a newspeak term for attempting to escape hopless poverty.
    i don’t understand why the irish, who have recent experience of economic migration as well as asylum seeking (albeit in a different time with less in the way of social security nets) can be so obtuse, ungenerous, and dismissive of those in need – even if there are some in this number who are freeloaders. as someone mentioned above, if we could deal with the freeloaders who are pretending to run this country while in reality they are plundering it then we could begin to speak of others, but sadly we direct our vitrol at those weaker than us, while meekly accepting orders from the real destroyers of our culture and land.

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    Mute Eric Foley
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    Jan 10th 2012, 11:34 AM

    well said!

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    Mute Michelle McGill Roche
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    Jan 10th 2012, 3:58 PM

    Very well said sir. I came from USA 15 years ago and I’ve known many, many undocumented Irish in NY when I lived there. Many are still living there. I remember one fella broke his jaw and had it sorted for free, another broke his leg and had it sorted. Don’t get me wrong they all worked (mostly cash in hand so made no contribution to the state or country they were living in via taxes) but I too am baffled as to why so many Irish are so ungenerous and dismissive of those in need when so many of them have experienced how difficult it is to try and make it in a foreign land.

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    Mute Cho Kahana
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    Jan 10th 2012, 9:17 PM

    Godwin’s law strikes again!

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    Mute Ruri Devlin
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    Jan 10th 2012, 9:44 PM

    Cho Kahana: your red herring would make a hose laugh

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    Jan 10th 2012, 9:46 PM

    sorry for ‘hose’ read ‘horse’!

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    Mute Niamh Byrne
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    Jan 9th 2012, 12:22 PM

    surely the article is about the relatively low numbers of asylum seekers (false or genuine) as compared to the number of migrants… The article also points out how and why asylum.seekers are an easy target….which most of the comments here have undoubtedly proved true.

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 9th 2012, 12:47 PM

    They are not victims these “economic migrants” to which we are furious with, these people are unlawfully (government sanctioned) or not they are gaining access to our country to live off benefits and I know for a fact trough previous work that stories are being held back from press and the Irish people do not know half of what is happening out there that should not be.

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    Mute Niamh Byrne
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    Jan 9th 2012, 12:49 PM

    Migrants do not equal asylum seekers.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 12:49 PM

    To the small portion of people that even got out to demonstrate, the portion that are genuine, I welcome them and wish them all the best, I do not see how they have been make an easy target at all trough any of our comments.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 12:51 PM

    That is what we are saying, a huge percentage of these “asylum seekers” = “economic migrants”.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 1:02 PM

    1250 asylum seekers does NOT constitute a huge number. The point of the article is to put the numbers into perspective. Most people come as economic migrants and state this on their application. Of course there are going to be chancers but as the article points out it is not an easy path to claim asylum and it is in fact easier to stay here as an immigrant.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 1:16 PM

    We were not referring to just 2011 figures as it is sustainable at that amount, we are talking about the ones here already and some of 2011 being accepted when they had no grounds, lack or identification procedures and draw from our own personal experiences, opinions and in Rocky’s case hear say.

    As for the press claiming it is easier to be a migrant than an asylum seeker? That is sensationalism which is what the media is paid for, to find a story within a story and I would give up my right to internet for a year for that bet.

    If I lost the bet, then I would question why it is easier to stay as an immigrant than it is as an asylum seeker.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 1:38 PM

    It appears to me gerard that what you have said is in fact based completely on here say our what you have read. Maybe try calling the refugee council to get.another perspective. I think you are confusing the issue. It is not about how many asylum seekers are here already but how few apply. As I said there are always chancers but until proven as with everything we have to give them the benefit of the doubt and treat them with respect.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 1:42 PM

    They should not get the benefit of any doubt, they have to prove their case and it should be beyond shadow of a doubt, listen to what you are saying, a country can simply not function like that, Irish citizens do not get benefit of doubt as you need to have everything in black and white and stamped.

    It appears wrong to you because I have work experience directly linked to it for 4 years.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 1:44 PM

    And as I said previously we are not being told what is happening in the background by the government, by these bodies and boards.

    That is from experience as well.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 1:54 PM

    Also I am not confusing the issue here as in print up top it talks about stricter measures and more people being rejected which would point to the issue where too many people were getting into Ireland without a genuine claim and we are dealing with that now because those people are still an issue and this is the conversation that evolved from the article.

    This government and the last will not print figures and facts in relation to non nationals who have been sanctioned to live here because it will incite racial hate and for one reason, what is going on is appalling.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 1:55 PM

    So of they don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt what do you propose? Immediate deportation, imprisonment? Internment camp? What about children…them too? Life isn’t always black and white. We have to weed out the chancers from the genuine cases and this takes time. In that time we ned to.respect.them as human beings. Basic human right last time I checked. I have worked with people from all over the world in this country. Most of them were immigrants but some of them were asylum seekers from the ivory coast, rwanda and sri lanka. These people have already experienced a living hell,.surely they are entitled to some safety and.security. As I said there are chancers but the point is there are more immigrants than asylum seekers and yet asylum seekers are seen as a ‘ scourge’ to quote one of the comments above.

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    Mute Laura Marie Purcell
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    Jan 9th 2012, 1:56 PM

    your work experience was where exactly?

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 9th 2012, 2:02 PM

    Life has to be black and white in these situations and you are damn right when you mention “Immediate deportation, imprisonment? Internment camp?”. That is the very treatment anybody would get in foreign countries, shall we compare ourselves to some other places? There are boarders for a reason, different governments for a reason.

    I have dealt with the same groups of people on a voluntary basis too and I have heard terrible things and some of them I believed and some I did not.

    @ Laura, because I signed non disclosure contracts, I can not even mention who it was I worked for or any of the details because it would be in breach of those contracts and I am not that silly.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 2:08 PM

    Gerard you want to bullshit…lock your fb !!!!

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    Jan 9th 2012, 2:11 PM

    Don’t take me wrong Niamh, I am an idealist and what you point towards would be a great Ireland and a great country but one that would not last very long.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 2:13 PM

    @ Laura, what do you mean?

    If you want some to know where I worked and who I volunteered for, send me a message and I will reply.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 2:19 PM

    Very easy to call someone a bullshitter Laura but when you are offered proof would you apologize as quick?

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    Jan 9th 2012, 2:27 PM

    Thought so.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 2:28 PM

    What exactly do you THINK I point towards gerard? you have just proved the fact that some cases are genuine and some are not….as I have already said. The point of this article is the low numbers of asylum seekers and how they are perceived in this country. It is to give perspective to the numbers involved. As I have said the authorities (or civilians as in the case of the airport) cannot deport everyone immediately. The cases are assessed at point of entry into the country, if immediately there is no case for asylum the person is deported but these are not the people included in the 1250, the people that have a possible case for asylum have to be assessed to see whether they are genuine or not. This takes time. So not everything in life is black or white.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 2:38 PM

    In reference to black and white I was talking about applications and identification.

    To what I THOUGHT you were point to was that people from nations that are persecuted should have our support, which is what you were getting at but they have to prove in black and white the need support that is the law whether your an adult or child.

    If you read above comments of mine, you will see I was the first one to say and said it at least twice that there were genuine applicants and the should get the support they deserve. I did not how ever prove some are genuine by saying I believed some were genuine but that is not good enough on one persons belief.

    I believe is the ideals of the system we have just not the carrying out of it previously and time will only tell of new measures will be effective because past ones were terribly carried out and we are paying for it immensely at the moment.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 3:38 PM

    How are we paying for it immensely at the moment? And my point is to put the.numbers into perspective. Asylum seekers are not the scourge they are perceived to be in this country and in fact the numbers of asylum seekers is relativel
    y low.
    And yes aaylum seekers deserve some compassion and respect.there are chancers who reflect badly on asylum seekers but this is why we have to be extra vigilant in ensuring that the genuine cases are identified and given the help and support they need and not automatically assume all asylum seekers are ‘ economic migrants’ or welfare spongers. Not everything is black and white….

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    Mute Shanti Om
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    Jan 9th 2012, 4:29 PM

    Er, Gerard.. Are you suggesting that if an asylum seeker doesn’t have all their relevant documentation eg, passport, ID that we should turn them away?

    Because I’m pretty sure asylum seekers are granted amnesty on the grounds that some come from countries that they would not be granted passports from, some have no official nationality, some come from countries where the majority do not have identification – or they may have had to flee suddenly..

    Sadly, there are some shady characters out there who see this as a great opportunity to sneak into a country on the sly, but we cannot turn them away until they are proven to be fraudulent in their claim – y’know, innocent until proven guilty and all.. I think it’s in the terms we signed up to in some convention at the UN too (can’t remember which one it was though, I want to say Geneva?)

    Your attitude confuses me, and I am merely asking for clarification, did you mean that they should be turned away if they have no ID or have I misunderstood you?

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    Jan 9th 2012, 11:11 PM

    Obviously not, it was not me who suggested that as it would be very simplistic to say that to say the very least, every case is different and has to be judged as being different but I worry as I know trough experience that people are coming here and are getting trough on their FALSE documents a new identity and a new life and it worries me and should worry a lot of people, these people are criminals and mostly linked to but are not solely from one particular nation.

    If I were pushed on it and someone asked me whether it was acceptable to take 1 genuine asylum seeker for every two non genuine ones would it be worth it? In theory yes but in my experience which is one of direct link to it from a few different view points makes a mockery of Ireland.

    I have met people and have no doubt I will meet more who have gone trough terrible ordeals and have the scars to prove it physically and otherwise, some are friends and have befriended me and I am thankful to have met them but the negative can not be ignored. I am proud of the work Ireland does home and abroad to make peoples lives better but we are been taken for a ride.

    Yes there are some who make the rest look bad but it is not by few in my experience and am I not allowed to air my frustrations and my opinion because it does not suit you or the popular theory?

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    Jan 9th 2012, 11:18 PM

    I am not blaming just applicants for this, this is something I am putting towards the government as I do believe you have the right to apply by law and the process should be just, for the people and the people of Ireland.

    We do have legal borders whether you like it or not they are everywhere.

    Some countries do not allow us in even when we offer to help so injustice here does not originate in Ireland people.

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    Mute Niamh Byrne
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    Jan 10th 2012, 10:40 AM

    Gerard can I ask you again how are we paying for it immensely at the moment? I shudder to think where you are going with that. And yes you are entitled to ur opinion but that is what it is…opinion. This is a discussion so people who do not agree with your opinion are entitled to question it. It was you who responded to my opinion. As I said in my opinion this article is to outline how few asylum seekers we have but yet their numbers are blown our of proportion and are an easy.target.
    It sends to me that the issue we should be looking at is the number of immigrants. I have nothing against this group either but I definitely think that until this country is back on its feet we need to be examine the numbers.
    I would still like to know where you have worked with asylum seekers…

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    Jan 10th 2012, 11:00 AM

    Niamh I have no problem with people questioning my opinion but I do feel I have more of an idea what I am talking about due to close connections to the topic.

    I have been called a liar by someone who has no idea who I am and seems to have no real idea or facts of anything she is talking about so I would take offense to that.

    I would like to know your figures and what you would call a small number of asylum seekers, do you know how many are currently in the country? Going back to what the conversation evolved to was how many are legit, how many work or even try to and what a strain they are (they being the non legit ones).

    Again with the experience I would tell you if you would like to know you can ask me in private as it is not in my best interest to publish it on live public accessible media.

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    Jan 10th 2012, 11:51 AM

    Oh come on gerard, saying that you know more does not mean you know more. AS I said the numbers are in the article above, 1250. The point is that the numbers of asylum seekers here is lower than what it is perceived to be. Surely you can see that you are proving the argument that the perception is we are inundated with asylum seekers and that they are an easy target. Of course there is going to be those that ‘ fake’ it but thats life, we have our very home grown chancers too. That is why we have to ensure that those that are genuine are given asylum… As I have said I have worked with asylum seekers too but I do not assume that this instantly makes me more qualified to voice my opinion, it just means I have experience, the real question is did I learn from it and how I use the experience in the future…

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    Jan 10th 2012, 12:10 PM

    I did not say I knew it, I said I think in my opinion I would have a better idea considering my experience, are you two girls reading what you are actually writing? All you have done is twist my words and insult me, not once there did I say I knew.

    I was talking about the total figure of asylum seekers that have come into the country in say the last 10 – 15 years that are potentially not correct, that have broken the law yet still remain when their status dictates they should be expelled upon doing so. These people (some of them) have records from their home countries but we do not receive them, you are talking about maybe hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers / non nationals in this country for that period of time.

    Every day asylum seekers are granted status and they are taken away from the figure of asylum seekers in the system.

    In my opinion you are both idealistic and naive but I could be wrong.

    The case of having an Irish chancer is the fact they were born here they have records we can trace and they have family that have contributed to the system.

    So many people on this need to know what is going on and the government is not allowing it be published, stories are being kept from the media and it’s wrong legally and morally.

    This is my last word here as you seem to want to drag non sense on and if you actually don’t believe me when I say I have been close to the matters trough work well you can contact me any time and I will tell you from personal and professional experience.

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    Jan 10th 2012, 12:17 PM

    I am not here to hold it hand gerard not would I insult a boy who seems to be intent on ignoring the subject of the article. I have lost interest in what experience you have because you obviously have only learned to generalize from it. Good luck to you.

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    Jan 10th 2012, 12:31 PM

    Excuse yourself with more insults (a sign of a lack of intelligence), I am a man and not a boy, I explained twice before that the conversation had evolved and you keep harping back to the initial article which brought about discussions.

    I then pointed back on figures over years which is what we were talking about before you joined in and not just the figures from 2011 (the article).

    Further more I would ask you to point out where I generalized in any of this? I did not I never do and I am always the first to point out that there are exceptions, there are genuine cases and all I did was question the government and the system never once did I hold it against any applicant nor did I insult you or anybody else.

    When you learn how to have a conversation where you can add to it and not just insult and throw out politically correct non sense then I will be more than happy to participate.

    I will not wish you good luck as that is on short supply from evidence of our economy but I wish you good health.

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    Jan 10th 2012, 12:38 PM

    Read ruairi devlins post below. And den as how yoi pointedout that you are a man not a boy….I am a woman not a girl. If you can’t take the heat gerard… And btw at.no point did I insult you….don’t hide behind that. Now I have work to do. Good bye.

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    Jan 10th 2012, 12:45 PM

    You insulted me by calling me a boy and not a man and it looked like it was meant as an insult, I have been honest and given my view and you have come back with nothing but reference to the initial article.

    You have brought no decent points up in my opinion and I stand behind nothing I have answered everything you have put to me more than adequately compared to your accusing me to have generalized with no proof may I add.

    Do not work too hard, I am off myself.

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    Jan 10th 2012, 3:16 PM

    I have followed this discussion silently until now. It appears to me Mr.Mooney that it was in fact you who insulted and patronised Ms. Byrne. You seem to using the ‘insult card’ very freely when in my opinion no insult has been made against you.
    I agree that the article above is very much about perceived numbers of asylum seekers and the impact this has on how they are treated. I think that both you and Ms. Byrne agree on the point that there are exceptions and there are some ‘fake’ cases but you appear to be taking this to extreme and stating that in your ‘learned’ opinion that most of the asylum seekers are ‘fake.’ Now as you said you have experience but you a not willing to share this publicly and if I was to make ‘assumptions’ about validity then I would say it is you sir who is the fake…but I don’t make assumptions so don’t think that I have insulted you, I have not.
    Now if we are going to talk about experience then lets…I am from a family of asylum seekers who have settled here in Ireland and for the most part our experience has been a positive one. But there seems to be a tide that is turning against people from a different background like myself. This is mostly due to the economic situation we find ourselves in and hopefully this will end sooner rather than later, and the subtle racism that is creeping in will get a boot out the door. For the moment I a proud to call myself an Irishman, I may be a stupid looking Irishman (as I have been told) but I do not get insulted by this and instead laugh it off.
    I think that you need to take a step back and look at how your opinion has formed, as has been said in the article (which incidentally this is what the discussion is about and it was you who responded) it is all about how the numbers are perceived. I agree as Ms.Byrne does that there is a criminal element, but again that will always be the case and it should only make us more aware. But do not tar us all with the one brush.

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    Jan 10th 2012, 3:27 PM

    1. I did not insult or patronize anybody. (show me where) I was purposely in my opinion referred to as a boy by Niamh and not a man which I find insulting and wouldn’t you? Also was directly called a liar which you are doing right now.

    2. I did not anywhere refer to all asylum seekers as criminals or tar anybody with one brush. (show me where)

    3. You are welcome to send me a message also and I will reply and tell you my experience as it could have legal implications and it is as simple as that.

    I am being attacked personally here and it is not relating to the issue as you have no valid point other than your own personal experience which I respect and I would never condone racism as I am not racist nor do I take part in any form of racism, this is not about and never has been about racism.

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    Jan 10th 2012, 3:39 PM

    I believe if you look back through your comments you will find it was you who first called Ms.Byrne a girl and then in a subsequent comment you questioned her intelligence?
    Now I am not here to defend Ms. Byrne, she can do that perfectly well herself. Nor am I here to get into an unending discussion with you especially when you believe you are being personally attacked, you are not. I am here to make the point that not all asylum seekers are ‘economic migrants’ as you so eloquently put it, in your experience, of course.
    I shall leave it at that, I can see you find it hard not to have the last word so I will give it to you. Best of luck Mr. Mooney.

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    Jan 10th 2012, 7:34 PM

    I believe you to be talking tripe to be honest.

    It is not about having the last word, am I not allowed defend myself to silly accusations to which you have no proof?

    Do your home work too as I was not the one who first used “economic migrant”. So put that to rest right away.

    I do not see where I used girl first and if I did it was not meant as an insult and apologize if it caused such to the lady who clearly insulted me, I was giving my opinion of which I am allowed to do yes? Then I have three people falsely accuse me of being a liar and generalizing a particular people which I have not done so come back to me when you can argue something.

    I think if you read back you will see nothing you are talking about has basis and at least I am big enough to say sorry when I might have to and to agree I could be wrong.

    You sir are wrong on a couple of points there.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 2:59 PM

    Get a life everyone ,
    be glad you are not born in those
    communist rules or war-torn corrupted countries .

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    Jan 9th 2012, 3:01 PM

    We are very lucky.

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    Jan 9th 2012, 12:50 PM

    That is what we are saying, a huge percentage of these “asylum seekers” = “economic migrants”.

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    Jan 10th 2012, 3:13 PM

    I have followed this discussion silently until now. It appears to me Mr.Mooney that it was in fact you who insulted and patronised Ms. Byrne. You seem to using the ‘insult card’ very freely when in my opinion no insult has been made against you.
    I agree that the article above is very much about perceived numbers of asylum seekers and the impact this has on how they are treated. I think that both you and Ms. Byrne agree on the point that there are exceptions and there are some ‘fake’ cases but you appear to be taking this to extreme and stating that in your ‘learned’ opinion that most of the asylum seekers are ‘fake.’ Now as you said you have experience but you a not willing to share this publicly and if I was to make ‘assumptions’ about validity then I would say it is you sir who is the fake…but I don’t make assumptions so don’t think that I have insulted you, I have not.
    Now if we are going to talk about experience then lets…I am from a family of asylum seekers who have settled here in Ireland and for the most part our experience has been a positive one. But there seems to be a tide that is turning against people from a different background like myself. This is mostly due to the economic situation we find ourselves in and hopefully this will end sooner rather than later, and the subtle racism that is creeping in will get a boot out the door. For the moment I a proud to call myself an Irishman, I may be a stupid looking Irishman (as I have been told) but I do not get insulted by this and instead laugh it off.
    I think that you need to take a step back and look at how your opinion has formed, as has been said in the article (which incidentally this is what the discussion is about and it was you who responded) it is all about how the numbers are perceived. I agree as Ms.Byrne does that there is a criminal element, but again that will always be the case and it should only make us more aware. But do not tar us all with the one brush.

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    Mute Ruri Devlin
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    Jan 10th 2012, 5:26 PM

    from one irishman to another – well said :D. (although on a personal level i care not at all for borders nor national identities when they are used as weapons against people)

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    Mute Kevin Dennis
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    Jan 10th 2012, 11:45 PM

    Glad you feel welcome here in Ireland and feel part of our country. Its great to hear of foreigners moving here and wanting to become part of this great wee country. Not just use it as their personal ATM. I think that is the biggest compliment the newly arrived can pay the Irish people and nation, by wanting to become part of it.

    Integration in action. It works both ways.

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    Mute Eric Foley
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    Jan 9th 2012, 3:30 PM

    Direct your anger at migrating peoples while the real drain on society is laughing at you, … oh my god, the cheek of them to cross your imaginary line in the sand in the hope of a better life!…..

    you think your stupid politically biased regurgitations will stop people doing what has been a survival imperative for as long as animals have inhabited this planet?

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    Mute Kevin Dennis
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    Jan 9th 2012, 3:53 PM

    Imaginary line in the sand? Ireland is an island.

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    Mute Eric Foley
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    Jan 9th 2012, 4:30 PM

    “imaginary line in sand ” signifies Borders

    stop acting stupid

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    Mute Stephen Johnston
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    Jan 10th 2012, 11:09 AM

    “Ireland is an island.”

    With (like it or not) two states on it, divided by an ‘imaginary iine’.

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    Mute Shane Gleeson
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    Jan 9th 2012, 7:44 AM

    Nice strawman

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    Mute Barry Lynch
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    Jan 12th 2012, 3:03 AM

    As an experiment I would love to see what effect the total cessation of any Social Welfare payments to people apart from the elderly already here would have on the number of non-Irish coming to this country to live and the number already living here.
    No free money or free accommodation.
    No child-benefit payments.
    No job seekers allowance.
    (PS. Everyone in Ireland gets cut off apart from the elderly)

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    Mute Laura Marie Purcell
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    Jan 9th 2012, 2:30 PM

    just saying everyome is entitled to a opinion but please do not make out you have worl experience or insode knowledge when you clearly dont

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 9th 2012, 2:43 PM

    I do and I have proof, do not speak of what you do not know, I do have work experience with 4 government departments and if you would like to know which ones and when, pop me a facebook message, simple as that.

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 9th 2012, 2:44 PM

    Plus I never knocked your opinion and I never knocked Niamh’s one either.

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    Mute Gerard Mooney
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    Jan 9th 2012, 2:57 PM

    So you just want to call me a liar and leave it at that? Shows your character.

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    Mute Jimmy Dunphy
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    Jan 9th 2012, 11:10 PM

    Gerard Mooney and Rocky Dennis for the Dail and teach them f***ing Idiots in there how to run This country !!!!!

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    Mute Mariaam Bhatti
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    Jan 11th 2012, 6:16 AM

    lol @ Ted Power I like the implants part of it and the beans stuff…guess what ? food is not that great there.It is the basics, same food most of the time rice ,potatoes,lentils,chicken,white bread,butter ,tea and or coffee ,cereal.I went there with an Irish friend to visit a friend,I paid dinner for two people(they charge visitors for food) ,my friend (Irish) looked at the food and wouldn’t eat it.

    And the rooms are shared except for families.I know a girl who shares a room with 2 others and a single mum who has two kids and she shares that one tiny room with her both children.They are not complaining they have a roof over the head but I doubt any Irish person can live like that.

    It is not all asylum seekers who are bogus but maybe Ireland needs a proper system to determine whether someone is really in need of being granted that status.I have seen things that I felt were unfair of people to do to the government but that is because the government is too kind and takes every Tom,Harry and Dick who mutter ‘asylum’ at the airport and applications take forever to be processed and even if decisions are reached to have them refused asylum,they can easily appeal and while that is happening the person gets fed,clothed,nursed,transported while all this is happening.I have heard of people who have been joined by many members of their families who had jobs in their countries and there are agencies in many countries who charge money to send people to get asylum.Some people sell information back to where they come from and more and more people arrive each day.

    I have no problem with people who deserve asylum status but many fake it just like some people sponge the government off in the form of the dole (so I have been told)and it is the government’s duty to tighten the ropes and ensure only the deserving are helped whether it is asylum or the dole.

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    Mute Mensah Mensah
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    Jan 19th 2012, 2:27 PM

    Immigration is very scary topic…u dont use the right words,u will b label a name…..it is hard for both sides…but every country needs migration of people to make a country moving….

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