'The Leaving Cert doesn't define you. My life has completely turned around since this time last year'

Check it out on Irish times. The pdf there

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/increase-in-students-opting-for-higher-level-papers-1.3596053

@Jim Ni Suilleabhain: What are you spouting about?

A1s and A2s are not the same as H1s and H2s. Please educate yourself before ranting. The grading system has changed.

A H1 and H2 includes people who would’ve gotten A1s, A2s AND B1s in the old system.

The numbers of high achievers have not changed significantly, as you would’ve seen if you (a) understood the system or (b) bothered to look up the LC annual statistics for the years you’re talking about.

@Jim Ni Suilleabhain: I wouldnt bother worrying about it. Education now is simply about keeping people occupied until they are 21 or so. Which has its merits and demerits.

@ihcalaM: I don’t talk to you. And stop pretending to be Irish. We all know it’s a fake account and you’re based in Israel or the US. You’re trying to legitimise your presence on this board by talking about our education system.

Nice new tactical effort, but it won’t work.
Thumbs up.

@ihcalaM: and fyi. 80-85 was b1. That 5% does not explain the massive jump.

Get back in your bunker.

@Jim Ni Suilleabhain: You are some fruitloop altogether. It’s not my fault you haven’t the slighest clue what you’re talking about. Talk to me or not, I’ll correct you anyway.

Furthest back on the SEC website we can go for exam stats is 2001. French statistics show that total % who got higher A1, A2 and B1 (i.e. equivalent to H1, H2) was 4.5, 5.2 and 6.4% respectively. That’s 16.1%.

https://www.examinations.ie/statistics/statistics_2001/LC_Results_Higher_Level_by_gender.pdf

This year it was 19.5%.

A massive difference? That’s being dramatic. Not to mention the fact that every single HL core subject had a drop almost in their H1 % this year. Speaking of French, H1s are down a full percent on last year, they’re down even further for Spanish. But hey. Keep to the hyperbole.

@ihcalaM: what about Spanish in late 90s? Compared to today?

@Jim Ni Suilleabhain: Furthest back I can find for Spanish is LC 2000.

(https://www.education.ie/en/Publications/Statistics/Statistical-Report-1999-2000.pdf)

Page 127 table shows 21.5% got A1/A2/B1 (H1/H2 equivalent).

It was 23.9% this year (H1 and H2).

This is not something worth worrying about. The differences are pretty minimal in the grand scheme of things, considering almost 20 years have passed. I’d say the number of extra Spanish people in the country since ’00 accounts for that difference alone… it’s much of a muchness.

@ihcalaM: may not be as dramatic as Jim contends but every figure you quote does represent an increase, some more significant than others. Grade inflation is a thing, the UK illustrates this better than us, but it’s present here too. And it is a counterproductive thing so it probably should be corrected for somehow, but like most non-monetary forms of inflation it tends to be so creeping in nature that it never seems an important enough issue to bother with.

@Liam Doyle: It’s fairly marginal when you consider 20 years have passed, that’s all.

I’m not saying grade inflation isn’t a thing – just that the whole “they’re dumbing down all the exams for these kids nowadays!!!” stuff is totally overblown.

The points race standardises everything in the end anyway – if it’s easier to get x amount of points then course requirements will rise (as they have done) and you’ll need to cover your bases better to get what you want.

@ihcalaM: The resutls for those subjects actually went down from last year

@ihcalaM: Nor have I. Maybe in your early 20′s, but as you get older the focus shifts to your college results.

@B-Tech Roadman: Zurich asked me, it was 10 years since I done the LC and they wanted my mark per subject. No interest in my college results, they said they could better judge between all the applicants using them.

@Shane Burke: You should have told them where to shove it.

@Damon16: Companies very rarely ask for your leaving cert points. In my experience, the companies only ask if you are applying for a job that is very analytical, very quantitative, one that is reliant on a high intellect (even though I don’t think the leaving cert is a measure of that). Ultimately, some companies do ask for LC points, but a vast majority do not.

@Bernie Roche: That’s just not true. There are a huge number of courses, especially the high points ones from top Universities, that don’t let people in through FETAC/QQI.

The LC is still very important for many people despite claims to the contrary. Lots of people can go the FETAC route but it depends very heavily on what you want to do in college.

@ihcalaM: I don’t really understand your post.
You use the FETAC system to do related courses initially, get a degree in whatever relevant field, then you can apply for your high calibre course.
You can do courses at night and try and get a job in a related industry during the day.
It takes longer but you are earning money and doing something you are interested in.
It’s a much better option than trying to cram a mishmash of 2 years information into a couple of weeks and say your future depends on it.

@Bernie Roche: You can’t go direct to ‘high calibre’ courses from FETAC, was my point. If you’re on about getting different degrees the long route and then applying the mature route to the course, that’s a lot easier than it sounds – again, depending on the course. Some have very few (very competitive) spaces for matures, and have pretty harsh entry requirements.

It doesn’t suit everyone. It really does depend on what you want to do. For some people, going straight into college from the LC is absolutely the best option and it’ll save an awful lot of faffing around, and will have them qualified in their chosen career much earlier (hopefully).

@ihcalaM: The leaving cert is FETAC 4/5.
All courses are on the system and once you complete one level you can then go on to study at the next, up to doctorate.
It’s not about hanging around waiting to get in as mature student, just give a look on FETAC website and see what you need to do.
Genuinely do you know of courses not on FETAC?

@Bernie Roche: If I look at the CAO website on FETAC requirements:

http://www2.cao.ie/fetac/fetac_search.php

For example, search requirements for TCD. There are few courses that will even consider you if you’ve a full FETAC 5/6 award, the majority won’t.

Therefore, as I understand it, if you wanted to do one of those TCD courses not listed (i.e. most of them), you’d have to move on again to a higher level course. This takes years, and you’re probably paying quite a bit for it.

My course is NFQ Level 9 (came in through the LC), so I’ve no idea how FETAC would even work there. I know for a fact that the places for non-LC entry are extremely limited. It really depends on what you’re doing, the long route might be more hassle than it’s worth if you reckon you could get the LC points.

@ihcalaM: To be honest I’m not that bothered about college acceptance rates either.
The point of the FETAC system is so all the education levels have parity across Europe and the world.
The leaving is becoming less relevant as time goes on.
An example is a 16 year old starts an electrical apprenticeship, qualifies at FETAC level 6 at 20 and is an electrical engineer at 24, with 8 years work experience, having been on decent money from when he was 18

@Bernie Roche: Yeah but what I’m saying is that it depends entirely on your field. Electrical engineers – absolutely, you’re 100% correct. LC is as important as they want it to be.

I did pharmacy. I can tell you now it would’ve been an absolute nightmare trying to get in the backdoor of the course through FETAC – it’d be graduate entry and I’d have to try and qualify for some sort of grant or I’d be paying crazy money. LC entry was the quickest, most reliable and by far the cheapest option.

We can both give examples of where the LC is or isn’t relevant, depending on the profession. That’s the point. But make no mistake, if you’ve got a certain career in mind, the FETAC route isn’t always going to be the better route. The LC is by no means obsolete.

@ihcalaM: Fair enough, if you want to be a doctor or solicitor, maybe pharmacist, you need to knuckle down quick and get a good leaving and play ball all the way, put in the hard hours etc. but for the vast majority who want to pursue different careers if they don’t do a good leaving they can do courses and work in the field they want to work in.
FETAC is just a way of standardising the qualifications, I don’t think institutions will be allowed discriminate like that for too much longer

@ihcalaM: Level 9 is a masters, All undergrad courses (which you progress to from LC/QQI level 5/6) are either level 7 or 8 at degree level. LC isn’t for everyone, and in fact, Sadb rightly points out it gives you a year to immerse yourself in a subject area. You may find its not for you. I think thats a lot cheaper than spending 3000+ in registration fees and dropping out.

The LC may be the fastest route in some circumstances, but its not always the best route. QQI courses (FETAC is no longer used) can be built upon. You can get yourself into a Level 6 or 7 course and then apply to get direct entry into a college such as TCD or UCD or whatever, but oftentimes, the ITs are better at content delivery and teaching, where similar courses are available. Sometimes Direct entry works, but a lot of people would benefit from doing a year of PLC/Further Education before third level.

@Keithy McKeitherson: Mine is a level 9 undergrad, the masters is integrated as part of a 5 year programme.

Again, unsure how you’d even get into that through FETAC/QQI. All I know is that direct entry was the way to go to save that headache. Fair points though.

@Bernie Roche: I agree 100% – most people aren’t shackled by it, just making the case that for quite a few people the LC is still the only game in town.

And yes, the institutions do discriminate quite a lot when it comes to this kind of thing. Some of them (looking at you TCD) would be fairly pretentious about qualifications and that’s most likely why so few courses there support entry through a FETAC/QQI 5/6. I can only assume.

@ihcalaM: You would do your level 5 and then a level 6, apply to year two in a link program then transfer out of that into said course. Limited places but its doable.

As someone who worked in both sectors, I can see a lot more merits to pursuing an academic career through QQI. That extra year adds maturity, and gives students a sense of what learning at third level is really like. The LC is just rote learning and regurgitation, despite all the changes they are trying to make. In fact, the new grading systems at JC and LC are kind of more in line with QQI, but with making everything bar Irish, English, and Maths a Common level subject seems to be over simplifying. But this is my own personal opinion.

@Keithy McKeitherson: I’m gonna get a slap possibly for this, but the ‘mature’ route is a disaster from what I have seen. Do the LC, do a PLC, do a VTOS or Solas course. IF you don’t have the LC (or equivalent) do it. If you don’t have the points needed (barring something like medicine) do a PLC. Don’t sit around and wait to get older just because you don’t have the points or you failed it.

From what I have seen of people who don’t do the LC, and then walk in via interview or whatever, there’s no way to determine if you’re capable. The college or institute (Apprenticeships for example) you’re attending doesn’t care if you’re able or not, they will get funding for the whole year whether you stay for a year, or drop out after a few weeks.

The one’s who take people with just an interview-they often have a high number of ‘group projects’, and that can drag down another person’s grade because they have to pull someone who’s not capable over the line. That helps nobody. And it often ends with someone graduating…onto the dole queue. With no actual skills.