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Opinion What is the lure of IS for western girls and women?

Why would a western woman – who enjoys the freedom to vote, drive, and wear what she wishes – subject herself to such an apparently patriarchal culture?

ONE SEEMINGLY PECULIAR feature of the recent media coverage of IS and other jihadist campaigns in the Middle East has been the willingness of western women to take up arms for their fight.

A number of young western women have abandoned their lives in the west, opting instead for radicalisation. Such headlines are shocking and unsettling for a number of reasons, not least of which is the fact that these women are from the apparently free, liberal, democratic world seems strange: IS’s fight is not their fight.

Also, Islam is usually presented (or misrepresented) to the west as a misogynistic, patriarchal culture that mistreats women, denying them the freedom to express their sexuality, professional ambitions, and so on. There is more than a glimmer of cultural bias in such portrayals, and usually there are vested interests in presenting a picture of ‘East-as-Enemy’. It often serves political purposes well to sway public opinion in favour of such demonising, exemplified in Bush’s infamous ‘axis of evil’ comment.

So why would a western woman who enjoys the freedom to vote, drive, and wear what she wishes, subject herself to such an apparently patriarchal culture – and in its extreme forms, no less?

Existential angst and the psychological appeal of religion

The attractiveness of IS seems incomprehensible to many, but it is not too difficult to see why it has such a seductive lure to western women. IS identifies itself as a religious group, so let us acknowledge the psychological appeal of religion in general. Religious beliefs have been prevalent throughout human history, emerging and re-emerging in every human civilisation in some form or another. Their success and prevalence is not based on an arbitrary appeal but, rather, because they satisfy deep-seated fundamental needs of human beings. They provide meaning, a sense of belonging, a clear moral code, a sense of nobility, and answers to perplexing existential problems such as ‘why are we here?’ Psychologically, we crave religiosity.

The processes of western secularisation has left a God-shaped void for many. The comforting rug of religion has been pulled from beneath our feet, leaving us in a purpose-seeking limbo. Reactionary attempts to fill this void are being attempted by the adoption of holistic spiritualities, universal laws of attraction, horoscopes, religions without the religion, and so on. These replacements for religion, though, are feeble compared with the rich traditions of institutional religions, and the remnants of more orthodox traditions leave us with a luke-warm Christianity that cannot fulfil our needs: we are fundamentally ill-equipped to deal with the happenstance and superficiality of the world – we need there to be something more, and the secular world denies us of this need.

The role of women in the west is in flux 

In the post-secular setting, many find enough purpose in the day to day tasks of work, relationships, children, Manchester United, and beers at the weekend, and therefore find it difficult to empathise with those who struggle with existential angst. Yet for some, western secularity seems vacuous: a culture more concerned with Kim Kardashian’s new nail polish and Starbucks than the search for meaning.

Moreover, at the risk of sounding patronising, for young women, the social landscape of western secularity is particularly difficult to traverse. The struggles of gender oppression have seemingly been overcome in the west but at the cost of clarity. While the early feminists knew what they were fighting for, in the break from patriarchy, young women are now faced with new, more ambiguous problems – the pressures to look like Britney Spears, take on the titans of industry, and manage a household, as well as not knowing whether Beyoncé is a part of the problem or solution. What is female liberation and where are the lines drawn between sexual expression and sexual objectification?

For some young women the perils of this confusion may lead them to see the merits of more traditional values like Islam. It may look on the surface to be a submission or regression to patriarchy, but at least their role is clear, and, into the bag, they are provided with the answers to those existential questions that are absent from western modernity.

Romanticised ideas of jihad

Once the decision to convert to Islam is made, these westerners are as exposed to the psychological seduction of IS as any other Muslim, perhaps even more so. The fact they have made a conscious decision to be Muslim rather than being Muslim out of the chance process of being born to Muslim parents, means that they will likely take the religion more seriously. Consequently, they would be more susceptible to the poisonous nonsense of romanticised ideas of jihad, and more cognisant of the historical political and cultural oppression of the Arab world.

The seeming nobility of killing and dying for one’s people and one’s God becomes attractive and, as an added bonus, the fight is largely against those western secular values which they found so distasteful in the first place. A holy war sounds noble, dramatic, epic, and gets confused with indiscriminate slaughter.

So whilst such headlines are disturbing and confusing at first glance, it is, in fact, relatively easy to see the lure of IS for impressionable young women searching for meaning.

Dr Gary Keogh is a researcher at the University of Manchester. Follow him on Twitter @g_keogh

Teenage girls lured by ISIS with promises of ‘Disney lives’ with good homes and husbands

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    Mute Ho Lee Fuk
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:10 PM

    Mental Illness

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    Mute Bevin Reilly
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:05 PM

    Some of women do levitate towards criminals and it’s an interesting phenomenon, if you could call it that. It’s the same reason you hear of women marrying serial killers and rapists in prison, they feel they can changed them perhaps? Also, I think low self-esteem and naivety has everything to do with it. Sadly girls like this believe it when these men promise them the world.

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    Mute Scott Coulter
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:18 PM

    I agree with ho lee fuk. They must be as deranged as the jihadists

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    Mute Jake Race
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    Oct 28th 2014, 10:01 PM

    Excellent article. Extreme islamism is a dangerous ideology thst is more than capable of infecting young impressionable minds that are looking for meaning.

    For me at that age it was the allure of communism and marxism.

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    Mute Pól Mag Shamhrain
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    Oct 29th 2014, 1:15 AM

    Bevin going out with someone against your parents wishes or doing something that they would not approve of is a lot different to young girls joining IS. They are not naive, they are groomed and brainwashed by clerics in their local community to join the fight for a Caliphate. By the time they go they are every bit as extreme as the men going over.

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    Mute r keane
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    Oct 29th 2014, 12:02 PM

    Careful now they’ll stick you back on the list!

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    Mute Catherine Sims
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:10 PM

    It’s much simpler than all that. Recruiters use the medium of social media that gets directly to their intended target.Then they target very young girls young teenagers with no life experience as such and are an easy target. Most aren’t even old enough to drive or have any grown up freedoms yet . They are not necessarily buying into the religion but rather the romance of it all and the chance to be grown up. Any teenager male or female going out there is in for the shock if their lives. What you see is that the girls get tired I’d playing house with their jihadi husbands and want to go home once reality sets in. It’s usually too late then and they are stuck. Many think they are escaping school or strict parents not realising what they are heading into. They are just kids and they get sucker punched . Young male teenagers are usually a different profile usually not high achievers and think this gives them a higher purpose but they are sucker punched too. Often to their deaths. It’s important to,prevent these kids travelling. Once they are out there it could be too late for them.

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    Mute Dom Morgan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:12 PM

    Which Western Women are you talking about? The two girls that left Austria are of Bosnian origin and have what are traditional Bosnian Muslim names. So other than them, which other western women are attracted to or joined the ISIS??

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    Mute Catherine Sims
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:16 PM

    There were some American girls I thnk that were found and returned before getting to Syria. Again young teenagers. A lot of the women ( not girls ) going out there are from muslim countries alright. Eygpt and so on but so far I thnk its been teenagers from the west but I’m open to correction on that one.

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    Mute Bulie Julie
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:19 PM

    I think they were Somalians living in America

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    Mute Catherine Sims
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:20 PM

    Yes you are right they were US Somali. , three teenage girls .

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    Mute Dom Morgan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:27 PM

    Great. So far we have identified two Bosnians and three Somalis. What a phenomenon worth a news title!

    Maybe we can count in long-haired ‘British’ male jihadis in ‘western women’ to improve the score?

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    Mute Bulie Julie
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:27 PM

    My point is how many western women not from the Muslim community are ‘lured’ by Isis?

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    Mute Catherine Sims
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:30 PM

    I haven’t heard of any so far all have come from moderate muslim backgrounds I think.

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    Mute Catherine Sims
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:48 PM

    Maybe there are women that we haven’t heard about ? We hear about teenagers because they are minors so perhaps there are western women going out there. I haven’t come across any stories on them and the international media is usually my focus but that’s nt to say they could not be out there. Plenty of stories about woman travelling from muslim countries . They are trying to halt that as they are going home pregnant .usually. Many woman are there by force though. Forced into the front lines carrying ammunition and such. Kidnapped. Raped and forced into the front line . Sick.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:51 PM
    19
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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:52 PM
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    Mute Dom Morgan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:52 PM

    Maybe CERN could build some mighty tool like that particle accelerator which is looking for the ‘God particle’, so we can find the western women fighting for ISIS?

    On a more serious note, this has provided me with a good laugh after a rather tough week.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:52 PM

    And thats just a couple of examples – there are many more if you google it

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    Mute Catherine Sims
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:55 PM

    I knew about jjahdi Jane and the British girl but didn’t link them with the fighting in Syria abd Iraq. My bad . Narrow focus and all that.

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    Mute Dom Morgan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:55 PM

    The trouble with these ‘examples’ is that they aren’t really in ISIS. One is sunbathing in Africa and the other was messing around the US and Europe.

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    Mute Inntalitarian
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:56 PM

    What are you getting at Dom? The Austrian girls lived their whole lives in Vienna. Of course no ethnic Westerners with no links to Islam have gone to ISIS but the fact that these girls who enjoyed all the freedoms of growing up in Austria would leave their families behind to join a Jihad is a frightening revelation and of course a topic for discussion.

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    Mute Dom Morgan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:59 PM

    Catherine Sims, perhaps you didn’t link the two with ISIS because they have nothing to do with ISIS. In fact the one is rotting in jail long before there was ISIS and the other is on another continent.

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    Mute Bulie Julie
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:03 PM

    The issue is that the title and the whole article imply that it is ‘ethnic western women’ being lured to fight for Isis. This is simply not the case, save 2 or 3 examples from Wikipedia. No one is disputing it’s not an issue for Muslim women living in the West being drawn to Isis, but the and article are misleading

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    Mute Bulie Julie
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:03 PM

    *title and article*

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    Mute Dom Morgan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:04 PM

    What am I getting at? I am getting at the fact that this alleged attraction of ISIS to western women is a pile of rubbish and I am substantiating this with the fact that we are unable to identify even a few valid examples.

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    Mute Inntalitarian
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:05 PM

    You’re making up your own definition. The author clearly defines Western Woman as a woman who grew up/lived in the West and enjoyed the various freedoms which came with that. At no point did he say they have to be white/non-Muslim.

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    Mute Bulie Julie
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:11 PM

    Did you read the paragraph under ‘Romanticised ideas of Jihad’? That clearly refers to ‘ethnic western women’ .

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    Mute Dom Morgan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:17 PM

    He actually did state that those not born by chance to Muslim parents will take this romanticised Jihad more seriously, which is, unfortunately for this thesis, not at all supported by reality.

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    Mute Inntalitarian
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:19 PM

    Dunno how I missed that, sorry.

    Yeah the whole argument’s based on a false premise. Pretty poor from a university lecturer.

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    Mute Inntalitarian
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:23 PM

    Apologies to you both

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    Mute Dom Morgan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:23 PM

    Read about ‘Jihad Jane’. She became a Muslim after picking up a Muslim guy in a bar in Amsterdam. Then when she returned to the US she joined ‘Muslim dating sites’. I mean, I live in Saudi Arabia, and I can assure you there is no such thing as a ‘Muslim picked up in a bar’ or a ‘Muslim dating site’. And then the thesis says that she takes Islam more seriously as she was not born into it. If you were making this stuff up it wouldn’t be more hilarious than this.

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    Mute Dom Morgan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:25 PM

    No need to apologise mate, it’s just online chit-chat. :) I am amused rather than offended.

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    Mute Bulie Julie
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:30 PM

    No problem. Without wanting to sound too sanctimonious I find this article offensive, especially after what women in the West have fought for & are still fighting for. We’re not about to give it all up to live the high life in bomb ridden Syria with jihadi John because we’re impressionistic. As a previous poster said for the few who are ‘lured’ that is because of mental illness

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    Mute Dom Morgan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:34 PM

    Che Guevara on the other hand……….. :D :D

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    Mute Bulie Julie
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:41 PM

    I’m not going to move to Cuba and convert to communism for him!

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    Mute Dom Morgan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:47 PM

    Yes I know. Buying commodity (e.g. Che t-shirt) from capitalist entrepreneurs is as far as this affection will ever go. :)

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    Mute Bulie Julie
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    Oct 29th 2014, 8:22 AM

    It’s not a tshirt, it’s a flag that was part of a South American artistic exhibition at Imma recently!

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    Mute David Spiteri
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:17 PM

    Narcisism and almost infinite stuipidity play a large part in these individuals decision to join the likes of IS, they should of stayed at home playing Call of Duty Instead.

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    Mute Bulie Julie
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:10 PM

    Yea because they’d be living the high life in war torn Muslim Syria…driving around in limos, draped in diamonds under their burkas.

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    Mute Nigel Murphy
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:10 PM

    A bacon free diet ?

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    Mute Seán O'Ceallaghan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:17 PM

    That reason alone is enough to stay away

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    Mute Dublinjonny_No.2
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:04 PM

    Young women looking to follow the money trail , hardly anything new about it

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    Mute Dublinjonny_No.2
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:25 PM

    All the thumbs down lol , let me clarify a little , a lot of these young girls are being promised vast amounts of wealth if they travel the the caliphate

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    Mute Adrian McBride
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:56 PM

    Kanye West sang a song about it

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    Mute Tom Red
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:12 PM

    The man that figures out what women are thinking,
    Will be a God amongst men……

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    Mute David Thomas
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:39 PM

    Check out the manslator device on youtube…. We could be on the way

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    Mute SeanieRyan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:41 PM

    You say Islam is presented as misogynistic.

    Islamic law is very clear in its view of women as inferior, the legitimacy of sexual slavery etc etc.

    The rulings of its clerics and leading schools of jurisprudence are still as dangerous and retrograde as the 7th C.

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    Mute Nadia Marie Al-Hassan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 10:29 PM

    You really need to do your research. Read the Quran first and then you can judge. My mother is an Irish Catholic and my father is an Arab Muslim. I have gotten the opportunity to learn both religions and there is nothing in the Quran that says women are slaves. In fact in the Quran it says the most person in the world that you should have respect for is your mother, a woman. And it also says that everybody is equal. A man isn’t better than a woman, a white person isn’t better than a black person and vice versa. But you are basing your opinion on what you think Islam is all about… you let a small group of extremists twist your mind, well if that was the case why don’t I judge every single Christian person in the world because of the KKK ? To judge a whole religion because of a small minority is just ridiculous. So really, get your facts right.

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    Mute Emily Elephant
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:20 PM

    @Nadia – It’s really not for non Muslims to say what is and isn’t Islam, and your view of it is vastly preferable. But any kind of honest analysis would admit that there are much nastier versions with just as much right to be considered “true” Islam. And they are in the ascendant. You want to claim Islam back? I’ll be cheering you on, but don’t be playing the “tiny minority” card. It is horseshit.

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    Mute SeanieRyan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:34 PM

    Look at the status of women in Saudi Arabia.

    Look at Saudi Arabia as a state, they aren’t that different in outlook to the Islamic State.

    Look at the writings of Yusuf Al Qaradawi, a leading Islamic scholar.

    The view of Isis are closer to mainstream Islam than people like to admit.

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    Mute Danger Moose
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:40 PM

    Don’t expect a reply there Emily. You have a Peppa Pig character in your avatar. Watching Peppa is enough to get your head hacked off in some of these Islamic Utopias.

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    Mute Pól Mag Shamhrain
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    Oct 29th 2014, 1:59 AM

    The big underlining message of the New Testament is peace Nadia. I would rather you didn’t compare the two because to me that is offensive to me on a number of levels. When someone does a cartoon sketch of Jesus, people don’t go mad and throw their toys out of their prams. I think it is good that you came on and tried to defend something you believe in. But read over these texts objectively from both texts. Forget what your family and friends have told you all your life, and really question whether Islam is about peace, war, freedom, or slavery.

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    Mute r keane
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    Oct 29th 2014, 12:12 PM

    Think the point is that the teaching of Islam is being manipulated by some sides, just like the bible – power,agendas,money influence – doesn’t matter what faith u choose to follow they have all been used for good & bad.
    These girls or guys are all vulnerable and if they didn’t go to Isis they’d have gone somewhere else. Look at all the stories of kids running off with older partners, or being indoctrinated into gangs etc. Isis just has the coverage & pr at the moment. Was commies, krishnas, peace core and foreign legion when we were kids.

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    Mute Damo™
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:53 PM

    They’re f#%$ing idiots!…simples!

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    Mute Inntalitarian
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:49 PM

    Girls love a bad boy

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    Mute Adrian McBride
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:54 PM

    Well they’ll be spoilt for choice in Syria lol

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    Mute Con ODomhnaill
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:27 PM

    Do some research before you travel girls! Once you reach Iraq/Syria you will be prized for propaganda purposes by your new friends. You will also be given a husband who may be violent murderer who slits hostages throats. You must cover up of course and if you want to pray go to the back of the mosque – only men get to pray in the front. Your new friends will probably convince you that to die by suicide bombing is your path to heaven. You will meet many young girls and women who did not choose to be there, but were taken as war booty, to be divided among jihadi men, married and or sold by their captors. Remember this is all in the book as written by the great prophet himself.

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    Mute Stephen Doyle
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:14 PM

    It’s the hipster beards on the guys. Normcore was so last season, burka chic is where it’s at

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    Mute Adrian McBride
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:38 PM

    Ugly girls get to completely cover themselves. It’s win win.

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    Mute Robert Lester
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:37 PM

    Clearly mental deficiency in some un diagnosed form! What’s wrong with these people

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    Mute selita
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    Oct 28th 2014, 10:08 PM

    Im working with very young women for many years now.
    I have observed a slow change from when I was a teenager, to young women now. There is a sense of not knowing who they are, lacking a sense of belonging, a lack of resilience and a boredom, despite never being bored, a loneliness I cannot describe.
    I think the lure is the rebellion of the above, and the ability of malicious people to manipulate young minds, telling them what they want to hear

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    Mute Nadia Marie Al-Hassan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 10:18 PM

    These extremists are not Muslims. Because killing others is against Islam. So for them to behead people, is against what we Muslims believe in. It’s actually upsetting Muslims all around the world that these extremists would do something that is so sickening. The western world needs to realise that extremists aren’t Muslims, they follow their own rules. Islam translated in English means peace. What they are doing isn’t peaceful and in Islam, Muslims believe that God punishes those who takes the life of another person, so this ISIS group is nowhere near being Muslims.

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    Mute William Grogan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 10:26 PM

    Islam was started by a warlord. He personally beheaded 600 people in one day. It’s absurd to call it a religion of peace.

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    Mute Nadia Marie Al-Hassan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 10:35 PM

    My mother is an Irish Catholic and my father is an Arab Muslim. And I’m quite glad that I am educated on both religions, because at least I have knowledge on both religions and don’t assume and make up things. A small minority of extremists do not represent Islam, in fact they are a disgrace, I wouldn’t judge all Christians on what the KKK did, so why judge all Muslims because of a small minority such as the ISIS ? Anyone who kills somebody else isn’t a religious person, the ISIS aren’t Muslims, they make up their own rules to suit themselves.

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    Mute Nadia Marie Al-Hassan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 10:37 PM

    And oh Islam was not started by a war Lord. You really need to get your facts right before you point fingers. Grow up.

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    Mute SeanieRyan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 10:48 PM

    “I (Allah) will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

    “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them”.

    “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”

    The warlord Mohammed was a big believer in beheading, 600 people from one tribe alone after he conquered it. The women and children were made slaves.

    Saying that he or Islam is against beheading is like saying Buddha was against meditation.

    Everything that these Isis lads do is in line with the Koran, from sex slavery to beheading is in line with Sharia and the example of Mohammed’s life.

    The man was savage.

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    Mute KeiKe
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:03 PM

    So what’s the eventual goal of Islam..everyone on the planet to be a Muslim no?

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    Mute KeiKe
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:07 PM

    ..and if you don’t comply..off with your head

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    Mute inproperganda
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:14 PM

    ‘he personally beheaded 600′, over there were ya FFS, you couldnt make it up on here

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    Mute SeanieRyan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:14 PM

    Mohammed was clear on the need to keep fighting till the entire world was subjugated.

    Problem is, that he made up new verses to suit the needs of a given situation, so the later verses are more militant when he was going out to conquer Arabia.

    If you want to be a peaceful muslim, there is enough there for you, if you want to be a militant one there is enough there for you as well.

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    Mute Nadia Marie Al-Hassan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:33 PM

    urely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians — whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve” (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

    First that shows you that all religions are respected. Muslims actually believe that God sent the bible and they also believe in all the same Prophets that Christian people do. We have much respect for Jesus too and believe in him the only difference is we believe he was only a prophet where Christians believe he was the son of God too.

    And secondly about Women in Islam
    And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women.” [Noble Quran 2:228]
    It is written that both women and men are equal. And the reason women wear the scarf is the exact reason why Holy Mary wore the scarf or why old Catholic women go to church with a scarf around the head, it’s just out of modesty.

    There is not such a meaning in the Quran, ordering or even permitting the Muslims to ever attack innocent people whether they are Christians, Jews, or any other faith for that matter.

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    Mute Nadia Marie Al-Hassan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:33 PM

    Those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians — whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve” (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

    First that shows you that all religions are respected. Muslims actually believe that God sent the bible and they also believe in all the same Prophets that Christian people do. We have much respect for Jesus too and believe in him the only difference is we believe he was only a prophet where Christians believe he was the son of God too.

    And secondly about Women in Islam
    And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women.” [Noble Quran 2:228]
    It is written that both women and men are equal. And the reason women wear the scarf is the exact reason why Holy Mary wore the scarf or why old Catholic women go to church with a scarf around the head, it’s just out of modesty.

    There is not such a meaning in the Quran, ordering or even permitting the Muslims to ever attack innocent people whether they are Christians, Jews, or any other faith for that matter.

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    Mute Nadia Marie Al-Hassan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:36 PM

    There is not such a meaning in the Quran, ordering or even permitting the Muslims to ever attack innocent people whether they are Christians, Jews, or any other faith for that matter.

    About killing others
    Combat is only ordered against those who are attacking or killing the innocent Muslims or fighting against the established Muslim state.
    If a country were to go to war with another country, they wouldn’t sit back and just let that country kill their people and children? They would fight back. So in the Quran it says if Muslims are being attacked and killed then they fight back in order to protect themselves but to kill others when they aren’t being attacked is a sin. Killing someone is a sin.

    I am glad I have the experience of learning two religions as it makes me less judgemental.

    Islam is about spreading peace, loving others, praying, giving charity and spreading kindness. And to respect all other religions.

    I have great respect for every religion

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    Mute SeanieRyan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:44 PM

    It does say that.

    It also contradicts it, the later verses become more militant and intolerant.

    The verses from the early days are nice and fluffy because the movement was small and if he threatened the other leading faiths at that stage, they might have well wiped his one out.

    He changed tact when he needed people to fight harder.

    The problem is that people think that his life is to be emulated, the norms of a 7th C. fighter belong to that century.

    Islam needs to stop teaching the violent verses and start teaching that what Mohammed did was for his time and not for ours.

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    Mute Nadia Marie Al-Hassan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:53 PM

    The thing is though, Islam isn’t teaching violence. And you can’t possibly know if they are teaching violence or not since the only information you have to base it off is what’s happening in the media and what ISIS is doing. Again, I emphasise on the fact that ISIS are using violence and this is why I say they aren’t representing islam or Muslims because I promise you as a Muslim and on the behalf of a lot of other Muslims, they are going against in what we believe in.

    The Prophet Muhammed was actually a man who wanted love and kindness to be spread. I’d gladly give you a book that has everything about him and let you be the judge then.

    Violence is disgusting and anyway when it comes down to it, men who are using violence are inhumane and you have men of all different religions who are violent. When a christian man murders his family in the states, we don’t blame his religion do we ? We blame him. The same goes for Islam, those men who are using violence do not represent Muslims, they themselves are evil, not the religion.

    If people took time to understand Islam then they would know what it’s really about. And if they don’t want to then fair enough but to make judgements without actually studying Islam or reading about it the proper way shouldn’t be made.

    My mum’s side are all catholics, dad’s side are all Muslims and they are both actually very similiar, both religions are actually quite a like. And I’m glad I have that opportunity to understand both religions

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    Mute Sean J. Troy
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:53 PM

    I wouldn’t condemn individual Muslims who adopt modern secular philosophy which I admire you for showing.
    And of course, the idiots in ISIS do not represent Islam.
    However, you’re being intellectually dishonest if you believe that the Qu’ran is a book of peace. It’s not. It was written by a conquerer. There is no inherent evil in power, lots of people have done it. But the prophet spread the faith at the point of a sword. It was not in self defence. It was a brutal war of aggression and forced conversion. This is ancient history of course, and I would argue that the conquered saw a golden age that was not extended to the rest of Europe. It was Muslim scholars who invented the numeric system we use today. It was Muslim scholars who made copies of many books from the library of Alexandria.
    Muhammad was a great man. A great man in the same way Napoleon was, who I personally admire.
    But the Qu’ran clearly subjugates women. It talks about slavery all the time. The prophet alone had 13 wives. Which is highly immoral presumably by your standards?
    Islam is a religion with shining virtues and beauty, but it also has some really dark stuff that is a lot worse than any religions.
    I’m an Atheist by the way, so arguments criticizing Christianity won’t work.
    And neither will Stalin, Mao or Polpot. Because they didn’t do their evil stuff in the name of Atheism.

    I would suggest you read the Pew poll on the attitudes of your fellow Muslims worldwide.

    http://tinyurl.com/o3szjj9

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    Mute Sean J. Troy
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:57 PM

    Nadia, I have read the Qu’ran by the way. And while I didn’t fully understand it, I did make a great effort. I’ve been told that it’s difficult to translate from Arabic into English and much of the poetry is lost. There is a lot of stuff I agree with in there. And there’s a lot of stuff I find absolutely appalling. You accept that there is a tremendous amount of violence? Violence within it’s historical context that was entirely aggressive?

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    Mute Nadia Marie Al-Hassan
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    Oct 29th 2014, 12:18 AM

    I respect that you have made the effort to read the Quran. And I respect your opinion on your views of Islam but in the Quran it says that Muslims shouldn’t use violence. The only time it mentioned that Muslims should fight is when they are being attacked and others fought them first. That’s when they fight back. Just how when a country is attacking another country, they fight back for protection. But to attack or use violence in any way is not permissible.

    Here are some verses:

    Fight in the Way of God against those who fight you, but do not go beyond the limits. God does not love those who go beyond the limits. {Quran 2:190] -

    To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged

    But if the enemy inclines towards peace, you (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah” [Quran 9:61]. –

    The only time it says you can fight is if it is for self – defence, and if you were attacked first. In the Quran it doesn’t say that you can use violence and go kill people.

    So the fact that ISIS are beheading innocent people, goes against what the Quran says. They are not beheading people for self – defence as they weren’t attacked, they are beheading people because of the sick and twisted minds that they have and using violence. They aren’t Muslims.

    I only commented on this article to speak on behalf of Muslims and say we do not support ISIS whatsoever and they don’t represent Islam and we sympathise for their families of the victims

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    Mute Tarlach Ó Néill
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    Oct 29th 2014, 12:31 AM

    @Nadia. Actually didn’t Mohammed watch the beheadings of the men of the Jewish tribe that betrayed him. The women were sold as sexual slaves.

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    Mute Pól Mag Shamhrain
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    Oct 29th 2014, 1:33 AM

    For one Nadia despite what you think is the English translation of Islam, it is not peace. It means to voluntarily surrender to god. That has nothing to with the term peace. Secondly there are a hundred or so very violent verses in the Quran one of which is:

    Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”

    In the Old Testament we have a number of violent verses, but nothing of the magnitude of the books of Islam. While I accept that some people would read these books and not be incited to cause violence there are a rising number of people turning to these verses. The verses are there. People are not stupid so Nadia stop trying to divide opinion on what is really in the books of Islam. Thanks.

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    Mute Pól Mag Shamhrain
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    Oct 29th 2014, 1:37 AM

    Quran (8:67) – “It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land…”

    I only starting reading this thing and already I am seeing a connection between what is going on in ghettos in European cities and just off the Turkish Border in Kobani…

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    Mute inproperganda
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    Oct 29th 2014, 6:44 AM

    you are sad free state bigot pol

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    Mute inproperganda
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    Oct 29th 2014, 6:52 AM

    are you some sort of new type of ‘ian paisley’ with a lifetime miision to spew hatred out about a certain religion, people like you need to be shown the door from this country

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    Mute William Grogan
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    Oct 29th 2014, 8:34 AM

    Improper, “The Invasion of Banu Qurayza,[1] also known as the Massacre of Banu Qurayza, took place in the Dhul Qa‘dah during February and March of 627 AD (5 AH).

    The Islamic prophet Muhammad besieged the Banu Qurayza for 25 days until they surrendered.[1] One of Muhammad’s companions decided that “the men should be killed, the property divided, and the women and children taken as captives”. Muhammad approved of the ruling, calling it similar to God’s judgment,[7][8][9][10][11] after which all male members of the tribe who had reached puberty were beheaded.[2][12] According to Daniel C. Peterson and Martin Lings, this judgment was in accordance with the law of Moses as stated in Deuteronomy The Muslim jurist Tabari quotes 600–900 being executed.[1][3] The Sunni hadith do not give the number killed, but state that all males were killed and 1 woman.[15] The rest of the women and children were sold in exchange for weapons and horses, according to Islamic sources.

    According to Ibn Kathir, Quranic verses 33:26-27 and 33:9-10 are about the attack against the Banu Qurayza.”

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    Mute William Grogan
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    Oct 29th 2014, 8:34 AM

    Actually sounds a lot like ISIS tactics.

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    Mute Pól Mag Shamhrain
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    Oct 29th 2014, 1:53 PM

    Hi Interporperganda. I suggest you keep your anti Irish sentiment to yourself. I was born here. I grew up here. I was educated and work here too. I never broke the law once and I have no problem with anybody coming here to live, work etc. But if we are going to end up like basket cases like France, Germany and Britain in that our judicial system is reluctant to prosecute non nationals….then that is where I have the problem. If you don’t like it I would suggest you go through that door. Thanks mate.

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    Mute silentbob2012
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:41 PM

    Grand…now where’s me tea luv?

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    Mute Ron North
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:21 PM

    The author is trying to push his own religious agenda here by trying to blame secularism and an absence of religion for these girls joining ISIS but in reality they were all young Muslim girls who had religion and were less secular than the average, probably (and I’m just guessing here) extremely so.

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    Mute Joan Murphy
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:42 PM

    Any update on those two pregnant Austrian girls that wanted to go back home ?

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    Mute Jason O Neill
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:01 PM

    idiots would only leave to fight with such a backward belief.

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    Mute Sean J. Troy
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:40 PM

    They’re either idiots, mentally deranged, or REALLY trying to get back at their parents over something.

    “Dad won’t let me date Chad, well he can go and @$#$ himself because I’m joining ISIS. Hah!”

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    Mute Ablitive
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:10 PM
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    Mute Kieran O'Sullivan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:38 PM

    @Ablitive
    What is most amusing about you is that you assume an intellectually superior tone with anybody that contradicts you. Quoting your boring mantra that we the great on washed are brain washed by western media. While you are privy to the real truth, through your extensive list of special news media feeds. Heavy emphases on SPECIAL.
    Truth is you have so radicalise you beliefs and your hatred of the west, that you are little better then your IS friends. I have read many of your posts and according to you just about every ill in the world is attributable to the USA and the west in general. You are so far down that road that you only read material that endorses you belief system. Everything else is propaganda. So why not go the last step, flight to Turkey cross the border, grab an AK47 and do the right thing.

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    Mute Onion Knight
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:44 PM

    Those links of yours are getting pretty weak. I mean that’s just a collection of computer games characters!

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:14 PM
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    Mute Ablitive
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:35 PM

    when you break it down.

    Who benefits from ISIS weakening and attacking the Assad regime in Syria?

    NATO of course.

    Who Pulls the strings on NATO? Zi0nist Israel, its side kicks, the United States, UK EU, Saudi Arabia, and all the rest of this thieving ransacking empire.

    .

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    Mute Philip
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    Oct 28th 2014, 8:44 PM

    Maybe because they see America and Britain bombing the shit out of other women and children

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    Mute Adrian McBride
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:46 PM

    Always America and Britain lol

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    Mute Tony Le Blanc
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    Oct 28th 2014, 9:42 PM

    Is it the stylish uniform?

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    Mute John Heffernan
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    Oct 28th 2014, 10:41 PM

    Great dental plan?

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    Mute Rita Teehan
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    Oct 29th 2014, 12:13 AM

    It is probably the result of too much freedom and liberalism,no set boundaries .

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    Mute Lorraine Perkins
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    Oct 28th 2014, 11:37 PM

    Great article

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    Mute Anthony Byrne
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    Oct 29th 2014, 6:29 AM

    Read the article. Thought there might have been a bit of an insight into the female teenage mind. Not a chance. Authors mind seems completely non-focused. To me it doesn’t go anywhere near answering the question it poses in the headline. Looking at the two pretty young faces in the photo, I am seeing two doughters. The question remains, what possessed them to submit to and enrol in a barbaric anti-everything anti-the-world anti-personal-freedom jihad.
    NOT a mysogenistic faithless materialistic western society with a “god-shaped void”. No, try Total failure of the education system to which they were subscribed. From school to parents to whatever their native brand of religion is. Someone forgot to teach them “how the world works”. Vulnerable people are preyed upon by evil people. Always have been, and always will be.

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    Mute Hilary Farrell-Naik
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    Oct 29th 2014, 9:50 AM

    Religion was invented to control the masses. The most educated people on the planet realise that God does not and never did exist. Islam thrives in countries where the masses are not so well educated. Western women who join ISIS most probably are not well educated, are suffering mental illness, malcontents, misfits or all of these afflictions. God help them!

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    Mute inproperganda
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    Oct 28th 2014, 10:11 PM

    how is this war going anyway, NATO doesnt seem to be making much progress, are these pick up the Saudis supplied Isil with missile proof?

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    Mute Pól Mag Shamhrain
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    Oct 29th 2014, 1:55 PM

    I think the CIA, MI6 and others have to look into your online behaviour.

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    Mute von
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    Nov 1st 2014, 11:50 AM

    Brains as small as peas, Bless them!!!! IDIOTS

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    Mute benny dowling
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    Oct 29th 2014, 6:54 PM

    I think the reasoning behind such actions is similar to a dog chasing a car which it has no intention of driving

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    Mute Windom Earle
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    Oct 29th 2014, 8:50 AM

    Some women love been told what to do by men. Islam is perfect for this.

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    Mute r keane
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    Oct 29th 2014, 12:02 PM

    1) Because Dad wouldn’t let them stay out late
    2) or see Bruce den at the barbie
    3) any other daddy issues
    4) to annoy their parents/ get attention.
    Etc etc

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