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LAST UPDATE | 7 Jan 2020
FIANNA FÁIL LEADER Michéal Martin has said the national commemoration service for the Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC) on 17 January was “an error of judgement”, but that those who wish to participate “should be fully respected”.
Martin’s comments come in the wake of Dublin City Council’s vote last night to boycott the commemoration service.
It also comes as a number of Fianna Fáil politicians – such as the Mayor of Clare, Cathal Crowe, and Cork Councillor John Sheehan – have confirmed in recent days that they will not attend the event, despite being invited.
The government has confirmed plans to commemorate those who served in the RIC and the Dublin Metropolitan Police (DMP) prior to Irish independence. Both groups were disbanded in 1922 following the signing of the Anglo-Irish Treaty.
The event, which will be held at Dublin Castle, will be attended by the Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan and Garda Commissioner Drew Harris.
In a statement this afternoon, Martin said that there needs to be a “calm and mature discussion” surrounding the event.
“An all-inclusive event, remembering all who died during the War of Independence is already scheduled and it was understood by all involved that this would be an appropriate moment to demonstrate that we also remember those who did not support the struggle for national independence which was secured by the men and women who are the focus of the many other events,” Martin said.
Martin said “it is undeniably true that many people joined the police force of the day for legitimate reasons but found themselves on the wrong side of history”.
“Indeed, elements of the RIC worked closely with those fighting for Irish freedom at great personal risk. I am acutely conscious also of how this controversy, and some of the language being used in the debate surrounding it, will be received by different traditions in Northern Ireland,” he said.
We need to have a calm and mature discussion. In my view, the event organised by the Justice Minister is not the appropriate vehicle to explore such complex themes.
It was an error of judgement compounded by the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste and their reaction to those who have decided not to participate. They should withdraw their accusation that, to quote Minister Flanagan, those who choose not to attend this event are abandoning ‘mutual understanding and reconciliation’.
He said that Ireland needs to “rediscover the generosity that informed the 1916 commemorations and return to the open engagement and consultation of that process”.
However, Martin confirmed the “event will go ahead”, adding that “those who wish to participate in it should be fully respected in doing so”.
He went on to say that the special cross-party committee on commemorations should be reconvened to consult on future commemorations.
He added that “it be asked to look again at the question of how we appropriately appraise and remember the activities of the RIC and the DMP over the course of the coming years”.
During an interview with Newstalk’s The Hard Shoulder this evening, Martin was asked whether he would be attending the event, to which he said no party leaders had been invited.
‘Not a celebration’
This morning, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar said that the RIC commemoration “is not a celebration”.
“It’s about remembering our history, not condoning what happened,” Varadkar said in a tweet.
“We will also remember the terrible burning of Cork, Balbriggan, partition and the atrocities of the Civil War,” he said.
“We should respect all traditions on our island and be mature enough as a State to acknowledge all aspects of our past.”
Varadkar yesterday said it is “regrettable” that people have made the decision to boycott the event.
“I remember 10, 15 years ago it was very controversial to commemorate the deaths of soldiers in World War I because some people felt that they shouldn’t be remembered because they fought for the United Kingdom,” he said.
“That has changed. We now all accept, or almost everyone accepts, that it is right and proper to remember Irish people, soldiers who died in the first World War,” he continued.
Speaking to reporters about the event this afternoon, Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe said he is “supportive of the approach that has been taken in this area”.
“The reason for that is this is not about in anyway celebrating what’s happened in the past. What it’s simply about is commemorating it and leading to a better understanding of the complexity of Irish history,” Donohoe said.
“We are now entering a commemorative period that is going to be very, very complex. We are entering a commemorative period where we will be looking back at events and periods within our history in which feelings will still run high,” he said.
Donohoe added that “the purpose of the commemorative period is to allow an acknowledgment and then debate regarding what’s happened in our past”.
When asked whether the event should be postponed, Donohoe said: “We’re getting into a space here, of course, where how I answer that question creates a sense of conflict within government in relation to it.”
He said there is no doubt that there will be further discussions about the matter in the run up to Thursday’s Cabinet meeting.
Criticism
Speaking to Newstalk’s Pat Kenny Show this morning, Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald said the event “should be cancelled”.
I think it is disrespectful, I think it is ill-advised. I think it has caused a divisive atmosphere, entirely unnecessarily.
I think it is wrong … for the Irish state to commemorate those forces that acted violently and consistently to suppress Irish freedom, a force at the hands of which Irish citizens suffered and died.
“The Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice and others in the Irish political establishment should recognise and remember that there would be no government in Dublin, there would be no Office of an Taoiseach or any other ministry but for those people who went out and who took on the Black and Tans at great personal cost, and their families and communities still remember them,” McDonald said.
The Office of Public Works (OPW) is responsible for Dublin Castle, where the event is due to take place.
Today, Kevin ‘Boxer’ Moran, the junior minister with responsibility for the OPW, has confirmed he will not be attending the event.
He said the event “should be postponed to allow for greater reflection on how best to deal with the wider issue of such commemorations”.
“We are at a very sensitive period in our history 100-year anniversary and the planned commemoration of members who served in the RIC and the DMP prior to independence, while being led by good intentions, has failed to recognise the deep-seated feelings surrounding the force,” Moran said.
Meanwhile, Aontú leader Peadar Tóibín has said he has issued an invitation to civic and political organisations to attend a dignified protest in opposition to the commemoration.
“On 17 January, we are asking people to assemble at the Dame Street gate of Dublin Castle to show opposition to the government’s proposed commemoration of the RIC and the DMP,” Tóibín said.
“We are asking people to attend to do justice to the memory of those who sacrificed everything to create a free and democratic Irish Republic,” he said.
Includes reporting by Cónal Thomas and Christina Finn
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Sooner the better FG/FG are history
@Fionnbarra O Nuallain: so bad you named them twice.
@Fionnbarra O Nuallain: Who fills the void?
@John Tierney: SF, Now stop asking the same silly question
@Still-Not-News: I’m not a fan of sinn fein I’ve never voted for them but maybe it’s time to give them a chance. Ff/Fg are a national disgrace. A new forward thinking party who has an actual connection to the ordinary working citizen would be preferable but until then I think I’ll give Sinn Fein a chance. Independents just can’t make the changes that is needed.
@John Tierney: the Revenue will still be around and money will still be wasted. We have no real leadership now so what difference will a change make? If anything FG will have to return with new faces and new ideas like we’ve never seen. Not a SF fan at all but they really can’t be less competent than the current lot. We know FF have no interest in even pretending to improve things or provide opposition, so they shouldn’t be rewarded with a default win either.
@Still-Not-News: stop with the same silly answer
@John Tierney: Literally anyone would be an improvement….
@Giller: You are going on and on. We’re BILLIONS in debt because of FF. Record homelessness and waiting lists because of FG. But you go ahead and take cheap potshots.
@John Tierney: Unfortunately we live in the void. While we’re in here, why not let someone else try it. They can’t be any worse than the present incumbents. The list of wrongs inflicted on the people of this country by successive ff/fg governments is incredible. Maybe it is time for a REAL change.
@Fionnbarra O Nuallain: Mehole. Snake in the grass comes to mind.
@Mock the Week Off: not because of FF, because there was a world recession
@Still-Not-News: SF that’s a joke
@Sean Barry: FF the pocket stuffing snouts in trough party bringing Ireland into the gutter since the foundation of the state
FF only represent FF, nobody else.
@John Tierney:
Only choice really.
https://nationalparty.ie/
He’s changed his tune. Weasely back tracking.
@Leadóg: He’s realised just how much opposition there is to this.
@Leadóg: how? It was FG varadkar who wanted the stand alone event for RIC /B&Ts.
FF are against the stand alone event instead opting for the all inclusive event honouring all who died during the time
@A -AFC: I see the main photo associated with this article earlier was of Leo Varadkar. Odd that it’s now Micheal Martin.
@A -AFC: spineless wallys!
Definition of commemorate is to honor is it not!
Leo and his party should be absolutely ashamed of themselves over this while their heads are stuck in the sand about the huge problems with housing and hospitals.now is the time to call an election.suppose Leo is going to invite his queen of pop Kylie over for mid-entertainment show at the commemoration.just when I thought enda Kenny was the biggest embarrassment
@dick dastardly: maybe it should be held in Crocker with an armoured car, after all Dublin castle was a scene of much torture.
@Denis Reidy: If they waited a couple of days they could have combined it with the Club All-Irelands fixed for the 19th!
There’s a pattern here, first appoint an ex RUC man as head of Irish police, then celebrate passed British police abuse against Irish people, This was supposed to outrage SF but it backfired spectacularly, it outraged the entire country.
@Still-Not-News: serious question, not intended to be accusatory, and to note I think this “commemoration” is ridiculous – why is it just to anger SF?
@Forest Hump: Election games,They though all the FFG lovely’s would be backing this, making SF look out of touch, Clearly the people are more in tune with SF then FFG.
@Still-Not-News: very well said! Blueshirts shooting their big toes off!!
@Still-Not-News: the ex PSNI man has done more to weed out the rubbish in the Park and on division, previous commissioners did feck all.
@Still-Not-News:
It’s no coincidence that this absurd proposal comes at a time when our police force is headed by an ex RUC man.
For hundreds of years the British stole, pillaged and murdered in Ireland. For a Taoiseach to attend this ceremony in memory of the Irish who assisted them is sickening.
@Patrick Agnew: Every Irish has been to the UK. Millions of Irish are/were earning bread and butter in the UK. Then why so hypocritical about the UK. If you guys are so patriotic then stop going to the UK.
@Waj Kahn: Comparing this outrage to visiting the UK. Ridiculous comment from you.
@Patrick Agnew: he’s not talking about visiting, he’s talking about going to work in the UK which hundreds of thousands have done since independence.
@Patrick Agnew: he will be attending in company with an ex-RUC officer as well. Just to run it in about right.
@Waj Kahn: You really lack any sense of intelligence.
@Conoroconnor: And the ones who stay at home following Chelsea F.C and watching Coronation Street.
@Waj Kahn: many Irish didn’t have any choice but to go to the uk or further afield. Why you ask, because of what the likes of the black and tans did ya clown.
@Conoroconnor: so what’s that got to do with the Taoiseach attending an event that’s abhorrent to very many Irish.
@Patrick Agnew: I’m waiting for the descendants of the Anglo-Saxons to sue the French for over a thousand years of oppression, massacres, cultural colonialism, suppression of their language, theft of their land and settlement by foreigners… no wonder the Brits hate the French!
@Waj Kahn: Perhaps the reason for that was we were a British colony. British empire probably the biggest the world has ever seen.Yet the average English family lived in poverty. Can only imagine the families under British occupation lived.
@Waj Kahn:
When UK folks started emigrating in their thousands to America during 18th and 19th centuries for a better life, Irish folk filled the labour shortage gap and helped build UKs economy.
Symbolic trading relationships are always a positive development within any political climate!
@Joan Murray: What in the name of god has this got to do with the French? Another fine intelligent comment!
@Patrick Agnew: Well actually if you go back proper it traces back to the Vikings. The Vikings raided France, eventually they came to an agreement with the King of France who granted them land in Normandy. The Norman’s then went on to conquer Anglo-Saxon Britain before turning their attention to Ireland. Simples.
@Patrick Agnew: I’m not saying it has anything to do with anything, I’m just clarifying his point for you as you seemed to think he was talking about people visiting the UK and I believe he was talking about people going to live and work there. That’s all.
@Waj Kahn: If you have no idea of the history behind Irish people’s strong reaction to this then you should ask us why we have reacted this way instead of making comments designed to inflate an already angry topic of discussion. Otherwise, Keep your mouth shut.
@Patrick Agnew: I agree, Leo needs to understand the History of this, it was the working class Irish who fought and died for the freedom we take for granted today, yes Leo comes across as a rich toff Maybe in the next general election we can teach him.
@Patrick Agnew: its got everything to do with the chip on your shoulder… Another 500 years maybe the Irish will have stopped whinging about 800 years of oppression (and by the way, it was actually the Normans, who had already invaded England, who first invaded Ireland.. but the Brits, unlike us, are so over it). Am sick of people who have no interest in Irish history, probably never read a history book in their lives, whinging about events that happened over 100 years ago.
@Alan Kelly: not just the working classes! Many were teachers, doctors or civil engineers like my Grandfather!
@Waj Kahn: Millions of French work in Germany but I don’t see them commemorating the Gestapo.
@Joan Murray: you’ve no idea whatsoever about my views on the British are! I’m commenting on our elected Taoiseach attending an event that will go towards validating the Irish who assisted in the murder of their own people. You’re only response is some babble about the French and saying I’ve a chip on my shoulder! It seems that the art of tying a coherent comment on here is lost on you!
@Waj Kahn: ah, the age old irrelevant argument. Plenty Irish people emigrated because the country had been decimated.
@Conoroconnor: he is comparing Irish people going to the UK to earn money and help support their economy to people that pillaged, killed and starved people in our country!
@Joan Murray: they’re not whinging. They’re entitled to say an occupying force shouldn’t be commemorated. Do the French have events in remembrance of the Germans who occupied in the 40s?
@Joan Murray: So should we celebrate the Vichy french and Stasi and KGB just because it was in the past. Do you have no morals or shame at all.
@Joan Murray: Do you want people to stop whinging about the First world war too.?
@Leadóg: haven’t heard anyone whinge about that one for quite a while. Can I go first? Not enough is known about it. All focus is on WWII with a minor mention of WWI as a cause. Not enough people know the name of the man that sparked both and has had more of an influence on the last century than anyone else: Gavrilo Princip.
@Waj Kahn: It’s not a problem of British culture it’s celebrating a division that was responsible for many atrocities here. Members of the British Royal family have visited Ireland in the past few years and there wasn’t this type of outrage, Irish people went out to meet them.
@Waj Kahn: stupid uneducated remark. This is nothing to do with visiting the UK. Dont comment on a history that u clearly know nothing about.
@Waj Kahn: That’s up there with the most ridiculous comment of the day!! Give your mammy back her phone idiot
@Patrick Agnew: for God’s sake can we grow up as a nation..I was one of many thousands that had to emigrate to the UK
from our Republic that was created by our
1916 heroes.
I was welcomed in the UK and treated with respect during my years there .
Yes terrible things happened on all sides and we should be big enough as a nation to move on and respect all irish men involved
.
@Waj Kahn: pick up a history book lad!!
@Waj Kahn: pick up a history book lad!!
@Waj Kahn: pick up a history book lad!!
@Waj Kahn: pick up a history book lad!!
@Waj Kahn: pick up a history book lad!!
@Waj Kahn: totally agree stay away from that terrible country that gave thousands of Irish jobs when their own country could not, yeah let’s hate the British right?
@Patrick Agnew: PSNI Officer you mean.
@Joan Murray: and an Irishman invited the Normans in.
@Aidan: they had joint commendations at various locations in a France commentating D Day
@Mick Early: you have a stutter?
@Patrick Agnew: The economic ruin the British occupation in Ireland created forced the people to seek work in the UK, few Irish men or women willingly travelled to a place where they were viewed and treated as second class citizans.
It is the very fact Leo that we remember our history that we are so opposed to your ‘commemoration’ ceremony of the RIC/Black And Tans/Auxiliaries,what you have shown is your complete disregard for the suffering /pain /struggle which led to the formation of our republic .
@Honeybee: the same government that wanted to remove history from the junior cert curriculum, no wonder they would, they don’t understand their own history. Imagine Trump calling on Americans to commemorate the Red Coats who fought G. Washington – Or Boris Johnson calling on Londoners to Commemorate Luftwaffe Pilots who Blitzed their city in WW2.
hes made a big mistake here
@ed w: Big I hope it’s a career changing decision
https://www.change.org/p/fine-gael-don-t-commemorate-the-black-and-tans
Simple as, boycott this and sign to let Varadker and FG know this is not acceptable
@Paul Cunningham: The petition would be full if there wasn’t pressure to ‘chip in’ for some unaccountable benefit.
@Denis McClean: it’s hardly ‘pressure’ – you can sign the petition without chipping anything in..it’s not difficult ffs
@Denis McClean: I signed but didn’t have to chip in.
@Honeybee: Yip. I can see that and so can everyone else.
He’s still trying [desperately] elevate the murdering RIC & their Black & Tans to equality with the IRA Volunteers who fought them for the freedom of our country. Just as the French Resistance fought the Nazis. Could one imagine the French commemorating the Gestapo?
The famine… Croke Park massacre
Blue shirt coward
He dropped the ball here, and he’ll be doing back flips soon enough.
LEGO
You are history..
So out of touch…
Been living in your ivory tower
For way too LONG…
The DMP were the tools
Of Michael Martin Murphy
To suppress the lock OUT
Same way the guards were the tools Of DOB to suppress the water protesters..
Neither worked…
From the Oxford English Dictionary:
commemorate
VERB
1. Recall and show respect for (someone or something)
‘a wreath-laying ceremony to commemorate the war dead’
‘a stone commemorating a boy who died at sea’
1.1 Mark or celebrate (an event or person) by doing or producing something.
‘the victory was commemorated in songs’
Let’s be clear, the Blueshirts want to celebrate the RIC & the Black & Tans…they’re only slightly reversing their position based on public opinion. They’d commemorate Cromwell, Captain Boycott and Trevelyon if they thought they’d get away with it.
@Dave Gibney: not the best article to be quoting Oxford English.
I for one will never give a single Vote to either FF/FG if this goes ahead! it’s disgraceful that this is even a discussion in Ireland in 2020.
@Dave Hayes: You need to broach up on your history. Your ignorance of it surpasses your indignation.
@KaiserJose: explain?
@Dave Hayes: what have FF got to do with this
Your Party is now SHAMED. Of all the things you could be throwing money at, this is not something the IRISH people will accept
Seriously, anyone voting in this shower again needs their head examined.
Too late leo. You showed your true colours yesterday. Shame on you tory boy
No votes for FG after this decision, their worst move yet
Back off man – so many ordinary Irish men and women cruelly died at the hands of these indoctrinated Representatives of British rule which has stained forever their legacy – Get off your pulpit and call an election so we can let you know we are not Interested in being governed by your enormous EGO
@TM B: going to vote for a pro-treaty party or anti-treaty party?
Amadán
This is like Israel commemorating the concentration camp guards!
We should certainly remember our history. Glorifying and honouring the R.I.C./Black and Tans is only giving credence to collabators. Leo Veareadka as a man of Indian descent… would he honour the perpetrators of the massacre at Amritsar. Knowing him he probably would.
Pure soupery is all this is
I completely agree that we should remember our history, and that the catholic Irish of the RIC who saw themselves as no more than police officers doing a respectable job should be remembered. But to have a state organised national commemoration of such a symbol of oppression is way too far for the majority. People aren’t ready to accept both sides of history yet, 100 years is a very short time in the context of world history. While I agree with them, I feel the government have made a huge mistake and have totally misread how people would react to this, it’s almost as if they are deciding for people that they should just ignore everything they know about our history and start praising the ‘enemy’. For me this whole episode shows clearly that we are absolutely not ready for a united ireland
@sam: quite the opposite Sam. You are clearly so out of touch with all this
You came on here yesterday defending the RIC and called me a liar when I explained to you what the RIC were about. I then posted a quote directly from their Munster region general and back tracked with some sort of waffle
This has nothing got to do with a united ireland. This is like asking the German Jews population to commemorate and celebrate Hitler’s actions
The fact that you cannot see anything wrong with this says more about you that anything else
@@at: mistypo, it should be
‘And you backtracked with some sort of waffle’
@@at: will I ever be rid of you on this app? You bloody parasite
@@at: nothing about a united ireland!? So how do you think those parades on the 12th will go up in Belfast if ireland is unified ? Because you better believe the unionists up there would get all sorts of concessions. It’s the same concept. Ireland’s not ready for any sort of progress
@@at: please, show me where I lied? You miserable person who has nothing better to do but reply to me and won’t even support their opinions with his own name
@sam: once again you have proven how out of depth you are with Irish History
You really do lack the intelligence to understand all this
There is a world of difference in the 2
The orange parades up North are about the unionist population celebrating their identity and their ‘loyalty to an empire’ who wants nothing got to do with them for the most part
They are quite entitled to celebrate this in my opinion like we are entitled to celebrate Paddy’s day as our day of identity.
This is worlds apart from asking Irish people to use their tax payers money to fund a celebration of an organisation that systematically went about murdering, raping and torturing their grandparents and great grand parents etc etc
The sad part about all this is that it needs to be spelled out for you
@sam: you lied when you said you don’t use multiple accounts on here even though you replied ‘backing up’ your own comment and praising the poster, with the same account as you made the post from
You forgot to switch account
@sam: and how many of those people are remembering or half remembering history from “aproved” schoolbooks taught by priests, nuns, or brothers?? a very biased history indeed….
@sam: haha, that is the worst back track I ever heard
You said yesterday that is was because you were using your mom’s phone to reply
Caught out again.
@sam: I don’t need to undermine you
You undermine yourself for all on here to see with your daft uneducated comments
@@at: can’t even dignify that with a response
‘My mums phone’ was clearly a joke to highlight how ridiculous your accusation of me using 2 accounts was.
You don’t have to agree with my points but don’t call me a lair when I’m not.
@@at: nothing daft about my comments, you see loads wrong with the commemoration, I don’t see as much wrong. You, however are just hellbent on arguing every point I make
@sam: ah here, the old ‘ I was only joking’ excuse when caught out
Judging by the rest of your comments on the RIB celebrations, I hope for your own sake you are in permanent ‘joke’ mode
@sam: you compared it to the orange marches a few min ago for Heavens sake
2 totally different things and you can not see the difference
@@at: I swear to god, I never used a second account, but I don’t need to prove myself to pr1cks like you. Keep living in the past. This conversation is finished. I never want to hear from you again. I’ve been on this and the 42 for about 3/4 months and never met anyone so toxic
@sam: stop posting uneducated BS on here so and you won’t have to hear from me again
@sam: 12th parades take place every year in donegal and wicklow without any hassle.
@itzme: He doesn’t like facts…
@sam: They have orange marches in donegal every year with no hassle. Dont compare our Irish government applauding the despised RIC with the orange marches. And u may not be ready for a United Ireland, but I am.
Tireless PR machine
He is a disgrace of a so called leader it’s almost as if they want to incite trouble I think leo should be careful what he wishes for as he just might get it
Unless you respect the history of this country and recognise the real difficulty have with the R.I.C you have no business being leader of this country . There is hardly a family in this country whose ancestors did not suffer at the hands of these thieves and murderers .
Surely FF the Republican party will boycott this commemoration.
@Leonard O’mahony: A few of them said they will but the party as a whole is on the fence as usual.
Are they going list the crimes of RIC against the Irish people during the famine, the land agitation. The great lockout of 1913. And let’s not forget it the DMP who picked out the leaders of the Rising. All of this was prior to the war of independence.
Independent ministers to boycott RIC commemoration event
Leo has finally lost the plot.
Should the Jews have a commemoration and celebration for Hitler also to remember their history ?
FG made a huge mistake allowing Leo in as leader, was better options and now people are realising how out of touch him and alot of his ministers are with the people of the country they serve…
The final nail in the coffin for FG/FF… especially FF/Micheal Martin
I don’t ever remember seeing such a volume of posts and reactions on the journal to any article. Perhaps the morons in power might get a feel for the mood of the people and cancel it. This commemoration/celebration/recognition, or whatever it’s being called today isn’t and will never be acceptable to the vast majority of Irish people.
@Stephen Byrne: Lisa Smith comes to mind, same with Irish Water at the peak of their obnoxiousness
A commemoration…? A eulogy…let’s be honest here…How can it be otherwise…? Ordinary hard working Irishmen caught out in history…etc etc The basest and vilest collaborators and traitors up on lorries pointing out houses, creameries farms to be burnt and people to be murdered or raped…their own people…the eyes and ears of the Tans who would have been blind in a strange country otherwise…who wore their uniform. In the upcoming election just stop before you vote and look carefully at the words Fine Gael….think of cottages burning right across Ireland, a family’s only cow shot and women with shaved heads raped…and ask yourself…What the f..k.
It would be more in Leo’s line to sort out all the elderly patients lying on hospital trolleys. Imagine them who probably remember someone close to them suffering at the hands of the RIC. And now while they wait days on a trolley our government is busy trying to commemorate those louts who caused so much suffering. Absolutely disgusting
Get the hell out of that office, Leo! You’ve disgraced yourself beyond repair now
Why dose the journal not run a poll and let the people vote ?
why is it saying only 5 comments when there are many many more than that !! well Journal..
I would love to know how he thought this would be a good idea. We all know how out of touch FG are with the majority of the country but this is beyond speechless.
It’s like the Bogside holding a party for the Para’s or ISIS having a bbq with American SF. No words can describe what a stupid idea this is.
For a fella that’s never done a hard day’s graft in his life, he’s some boy for digging a hole for himself.
While I agree with Leo about remembering our history, I think there are more appropriate ways of doing it, especially relating to the Black and Tans. They earned their bad name and don’t deserve any kind of recognition that could be confused with a celebration. There are still those struggling to forget.
@Shea Fitzgerald: they’re not recognising the Black and Tans. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!
@joe: Correct, it was the RIC that murdered Tomas Mccurtain and the civilians in croke Park on Bloody Sunday, not the Tans.
Wow, who in FG thought that this would be a cause to get behind right before an election, considering FG’s opposition to Republicans wearing of Easter lily’s in the Dail chamber.
For an educated man he’s an awful oaf, an unpatriotic oaf at that!…
@Kate Flaherty: non patriotic!..
Ahh get off the fence Michael…
FF/FG really have shot themselves in the foot with this
I asked some Indian friends of mine what they called the people in their country who worked with the British when they fought for Independence. They told me they don’t have a name for them as there were no Indians who worked against their own countrymen. Leo is a disgrace not only to the Irish but his own ‘native’ country as well. Can’t wait until someone explains this to his family.
Leo was obviously out of school the day they covered Irish history. Someone needs to bring him up to sped & fast. Leo will want to have a national holiday for Cromwell next to celebrate his kindness to the Irish people
This utter insult to the country is as bad as Kenny’s famous “contract to the Irish people”.
I find it difficult to believe these clowns actually manage to tie their own laces, let alone run a country.
NEWS FLASH – Leo has contacted Micky Martin and asked for Election date to be put back to March 2023!
Comments disappearing. Likening FG to an other government not a million miles away upset the sensibilities of a FG keyboard warrior per chance?
An attack on the patriotic and anti imperialist traditions of Ireland to soften us up for full NATO membership.
There is nothing broadminded or remotely progressive about commemorating the RIC
I’ve never looked forward to an election more. I can’t wait until they call to my door.
And don’t forget, fianna fail could stop this, but as usual, they obey their masters.
How can we have gone so far as a nation to stoop this low. Our national identity has been completely eroded away with these 2 parties over the past 15 years. No other people would accept this mental illness.
He is trying to back pedal now by saying it’s to remember what happened in history rather than commemorate those involved. What a rat!
Error of judgement Micheál Now l’d say your milking this Confidence and supply arrangement
They weren’t run as a subset, but a separate entity, even if they shared a similar name.
The RIC was near entirely made up of people from the island, the B+Ts a Churchill entity largely consisting of the isle of Britain. Commemorating the former does not mean respecting the deeds of the latter.
Plenty to hit Leo over the head over. This, however, is a display of historical ignorance.
Absolutely laughable that people think a United Ireland will occur with this attitude.
@KaiserJose: The RIC and black and tans were the same, the RIC just happened to be made up of Irish people, they still terrorised Irish civilians.
@KaiserJose: you’re the only fool talking about a United Ireland. Go down the town and buy yerself a nice little history book, one with pictures in it
Mick Martin sitting up on the fence, again that’s what makes him unelectable.
all i’ve been hearing the last few days is how they oppressed us and how they were brutal etc. but not to anyone here! there isn’t one person on here who was directly touched by them and i dare say not even their parents were. so who are you so indignant on behalf of? firstly we need to separate the dmp and the irc from the black and tans and auxiliary’s. the dmp were going about their business in dublin, generally trying to keeep the population out of harms way. the same generally goes for the irc, it was the black and tans that shot people and burned homes but they’ve all been bunched in together but they were not irc, they didn’t have the training and were generally damaged war vets put into a civilian peacekeeping role that they should have never been in. most were suffering from some sort of ptsd and should have never been let near the general population. we know that now! and i’m sure the British government know that and acknowledge that too…is a commemoration for the dmp so bad? even one for the irc? if we as a nation can’t move on from this then it might as well be 1920 not 2020. is there no forgiveness? we want to take our place in the world but we can’t because much as you love the past you’re pinned down by it. you may not realise it unless you’ve left the country but if you have, you come back realiseing just how narrow minded people here are and how tiny their outlook is.
@Colm O’Leary: oh but 700 years etc etc. Who cares!
The French have largely forgiven the Germans for WWII.
It’s only losers who really care about this stuff as they’ve nothing better to do!
@Colm O’Leary: agreed. My great grandfather was in the RIC. According to some here I completely forget he existed. It’s part of our history.
@Colm O’Leary: thank you!! Nobody seems to want to differentiate between the RIC and then the tans! So easy to throw them all into the ‘oppressor’ group in order to suit the other sides narrative
@Colm O’Leary: God Colum that is both desperate and embarrassing. The Tans were recruited as an auxiliary force to supplement the RIC so were effectively RIC members themselves. But instead of nit-picking about those fine details, lets look at the RIC force itself. They murdered the Lord Mayor of Cork in 1920 – not the tans. When the Tans set the city on Fire later that December- eye witness accounts reported seeing more RIC officers carrying drums of petrol about from building to building than tans – and equally saw them coming out of various stores, with stolen goods, jewels and food. Yes, there was good RIC men too who worked with the IRA as double agents – but over all – The RIC was the backbone- eyes and ears of the British war machine in Ireland. Why do you think Collins and the IRA wanted them systematically wiped out – Because when they would fall, so too would British Rule in Ireland!
@joe: but will the French commemorate the Nazi invasion on its centinary? Most likely not.
@Cobh Rebel Tour Mccarthy: of course your not selling anything at all given your handle mr “rebel tour” . what would happen if everyone got on tomorrow? your business would become obsolete. the simple fact is you have no actual experience of the black and tans or the irc do you? you only have second hand at best, biased information. i say that any eye witness is unreliable. whatever side they say they’re on. come back to me when you have photos of them setting fires. also, the whole city wasn’t burned. it’s very dramatic to say that but it simpley isn’t true. it’s like they say Dublin was burned in 1916. but the reality is that it was only five streets and not all of those totally. but as long as we have people like you determined to keep the stories alive and the hatred going there will never be peace in Ireland. as long as people have to listen to people like you going on and on about how the poor Irish were put upon by the nasty English and how we suffered for 700 years and on and on there will never be any way out of where this country is in terms of feeling sorry for itself!
@joe: They don’t have commemorations for the Germans
@Colm O’Leary: if you want to go down the road of differentiating between the tans and RIC then fine, it was the RIC that murdered Tomas Mccurtain, it was the RIC that murdered many innocent people in croke Park on Bloody Sunday. Not the Tans.
@Shay Redmond.: well they do for WWI which finished more recently than the rising. https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/20141110-hollande-opens-vast-new-memorial-wwi-dead
They also welcome German politicians to Normandy every year.
@Aidan: they do!
@Aidan: they do! https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28628335
Just remember what went on in your native cork !
So many people against this celebration /commeration, yet they will push ahead with it. They could not stick 2 fingers up at the general public any better if they tried. Ff are now guaranteed to be elected into government. Fg must have corbyns advisors
Wow- who would have thought the Black and Tans would bring down Fine Gael. Wait for a few years more and Fianna Fail will want to commemorate Fine Gael.
“but says those attending should be respected” – from that comment I take it MM and LV are going still, they can’t get out of it now, what a pickle
Leo was obviously out of school the day they covered Irish history. Someone needs to bring him up to speed & fast.I expect Leo will want to have a national holiday for Cromwell next to celebrate his kindness to the Irish people
Leo comment are disgusting and everyone not interesting about history RIC
The FF leadership should be ashamed of itself we can acknowledge incidents from the past without celebrating them with state participation
As a person with absolutely no spine, this is what you get from the like of Mr Martin. A Blueshirt at heart!
I wonder which part of our island does the black and tans come from Varadkar should be ashamed of himself
This is not going to end well
Leo has showed his hand proving that he does not understand Irish History and the memories that people have of that awful era.
@Aine O Connor: that’s a bad stutter you have :)
@Stephen Byrne: I know
Really in this day and age who actually cares apart from RA heads and people living in the past?
@joe: Leo should care because he wouldn’t be Taoiseach if those he wants to ‘commemorate’ had their way.
@joe: Any self respecting Irish person, that’s who.
Mickey Martin is a sneaky opportunist as well – don’t be fooled into thinking this pocket stuffer the answer to anything – he isn’t !
@Paul Mujcas: idiot
Never been so angry in my life !!!
Will do nothing but stir up old hatred , simmering below surface ! But what do Leo know ….. his family was not terrorised by these murderers . A total and utter disgrace and I trust that all Fianna Fáil members will be boycotting event .
Fudge
Will Martian attend this farce…. Probably do another u turn… He will let us know on the day.
This is like the Jews commemorating the SS. With Drew Harris there, they may as well include the RUC as well. Unbelievable. How low can some cowards go?
The past is the past. We must move on, but nothing wrong with remembering people who gave their lives for what they thought was right at the time. Learn from history.
Could of sworn I saw him locked one night singing “Come out ye Black and Trans”
@Grumpyoldtroll: You did…
It goes..
Come out you black and tans
Fine Gael wants to shake you’re hands
How many more times can Fine Gael drop a bollick? Jesus wept Armando Iannucci couldn’t write this
A error of judgement I don’t think so smug Leo wouldn’t make a error of judgement
Mr Martin you don’t really need to continue to prop this minority government. You have in essence killed any chance of some swing vote to FF. You couldn’t make this up!
Leo sockboy it’s not part of our history leave now while you have a chance
Wow..and he wants to be a leader..give me a break..useless
Will we ever stop living in the past. Of course humans do terrible things..Don’t forget many non Catholics were burnt of house and home by our so called liberators.
We were never told about it in our history classes.
During the civil war irish men carried out terrible atrocities to fellow irish men.
Do we honour them as well.
The majority of irish citizens did not support 1916 bit did support Home Rule.
Leo has sh
Leo has sh
@Aine O Connor: Let me finish that for you Aine…Leo has shot himself in the foot here big time…..you’re welcome.
@Caoimhin O’Murchadha: Good one
Lot of generalisation going on here. I have passed relatives who served in the RIC and subsequently in the Gardai and also relatives who died in Gallipoli in WW1. Am I supposed be ashamed of my ancestry. They were proud Irishmen. Bit like saying all Germans are Natzis and all Muslims are terrorists. I’m pissed off with snowflakes being offended on other peoples behalf. Cop On.
For Michael Martin the leader of the so called Republican Party to come out with such weak response to something that is causing such outrage amongst so many Irish people is astounding and shows how out of touch him and his party actually is. To say that people should respect the views of the people who attend this so called commendation that honours the memory of these barbaric thugs who slaughtered Irish people on behalf of the Empire is deeply offensive, hurtful and disrespectful of the victims and families of those who died and suffered at their murderous hands.
@Ger O’Reilly: Micheál Martin is a sleeveen opportunistic waste of space busy stuffing his pockets.
The sooner FFG offload him the better !
People who critise this but call for a united Ireland are in for a big surprise.
Le
If people are serious about a united Ireland, then we need to get used to the commemoration of British forces in Ireland. 700,000 unionists will always remember the dead of the RIC/RUC/B Specials/UDR/British Soldiers/PSNI. Or will a united Ireland mean the suppression of a sizeable section of the population or re-education or worse, annihilation of said people??
Leo you need to go you are totally disconnected from the Irish public totally disconnected
have your say