Advertisement

We need your help now

Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.

You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.

If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.

What can Irish firefighters learn from Superstorm Sandy?

A New York fire fighter visited Cork this week to talk to the Irish Chief Officers Association annual conference – here’s some of what he told them.

FROM 9/11 TO Superstorm Sandy, New York’s fire service has had to contend with some of the world’s worst natural and man-made disasters of the past 15 years.

What it learned from these events has led its members to improve how they do their work – and earlier this week they passed their knowledge on to Irish fire fighters, during the annual Irish Chief Fire Officers Association (CFOA) conference.

The facade of a four-story building on 14th Street and 8th Avenue collapsed onto the sidewalk as FDNY firefighters respond during Superstorm Sandy.  (AP Photo/ John Minchillo)

Superstorm Sandy struck the east coast of the US in late October of last year. In New York, it forced the shutdown of subways, schools and financial markets. It sent residents from coastal areas fleeing, as high winds and harsh rain soaked the city.

John Ryan of the CPOA said that Irish fire fighters are eager to learn from what others have done abroad. At the conference, they had the opportunity to hear from Robert Maynes, who has considerable experience in dealing with high-profile disasters.

He journeyed to the conference in Cork from New York, where he is a fire commander in the borough of Queens. A member of the fire service for 33 years, he has seen lots of changes take place in how fire fighters do their work, and has worked during major disasters to keep New Yorkers safe.

Damage caused by a fire at Breezy Point is shown Tuesday, Oct. 30, 2012, in in the New York City borough of Queens. Pic: AP Photo/Frank Franklin II

During Hurricane Irene in 2011, New Yorkers had been warned that a direct hit would be disastrous. But when the hurricane didn’t hit exactly as planned – though it caused destruction and even deaths – that led to people assuming Superstorm Sandy also wouldn’t affect them as much.

“Hurricane Irene hurt us,” said Maynes. When Irene didn’t flood the Rockaway and Staten Island areas, people thought that the same would happen with Hurricane Sandy, so chose not to evacuate.

We said it was going to happen the next year and the water was colder, it shouldn’t have been as big a hurricane but nobody believed us and stayed home. It was a bit of a case of the boy who cried wolf.

Large waves generated by Hurricane Sandy crash into Jeanette’s Pier in Nags Head, NC. Pic: AP Photo/Gerry Broome, File

This in itself is a lesson for Irish fire fighters – that nature rarely does what you expect, but you always have to be prepared for the worst.

For Maynes, the key in dealing with tough situations, which are often life-or-death situations, is being prepared.

For example, the fire service was a little ahead of everyone else when it came to Superstorm Sandy, knowing that it was poised to hit. However, it had a tough job convincing every citizen living in New York that they needed to be prepared too – although huge amounts of people left the city, others chose to remain at home and had to be rescued.

Research

Post 9/11, the terrorist attack which itself led to the deaths of many fire fighters, the emergency services knew they had to be prepared for the unimaginable.

As part of their research into preparing for unknown future events, New York fire fighters were sent around the country to see how their colleagues deal with serious incidents.

After 9/11, a consulting company visited the fire department and recommended what they should do to increase preparedness for another disaster, said Maynes. He said they used quite a few things successfully, including borough commands to improve communication between New York’s five boroughs.

“We have an incident management team which I was part of; that’s how we got our experience going other places,” he added. In 2005, they went to New Orleans after the devastating Hurricane Katrina for six weeks to see work on the ground there.

Much of lower Manhattan remains dark in the wake of superstorm Sandy, power outages plagued much of the New York area. (AP Photo/Craig Ruttle, File)

This work paid off – on the night of Hurricane Sandy, they had to fight five major fires alone in Queens, while 20,000 homes were flooded.

Their post-storm support was mostly tree operations, as well as ‘de-watering’ and then removing sand from the streets so that life could back to some semblance of normal, said Maynes.

The utilisation of an incident command system is very important, Maynes told TheJournal.ie. It helps the team “to organise and take something that is chaotic and return it to normal”.

Fire fighters need be prepared – but they also need to be flexible enough to respond to disasters outside their normal scope, he cautioned. In Queens, for example, they realised they need more special apparatus to deal with disasters – such as fire engines and equipment that can cope with being submerged in salt water.

This was a lesson they learned during Superstorm Sandy. The fire service also learned a lot through simulating its own fake hurricane, Hurricane Noreen. This ‘hit’ the Rockaway area – and it transpired that when Sandy hit, it hit in almost the same way they had anticipated during the simulated exercise.

They also had a firehouse in Rockaway that was in the evacuation zone during Sandy. Again, preparation helped avoid disaster here.

“We knew it was high enough that it wouldn’t flood and we confirmed [that] with handheld GPS,” explained Maynes They moved everyone in there and almost everything went to plan.

Their planning and preparation paid off and they were able to save lives and fight fires using vehicles that weren’t affected by the hurricane.

Ireland

Are the lessons different for Ireland? No, said Maynes.

For Ireland, those lessons are the same. It could be in Ireland, South America, Australia – those same tools we use to fix this would work for terrorism, work for commercial accidents, work for search and rescue.

Just because Ireland is smaller than the US, it doesn’t mean a disaster would not be of the same scale. “It could easily be worse,” warned Maynes. They aim to “learn from our mistakes – always look to improve over the last time”.

FDNY firefighters glare up at a damaged crane as it hangs over 57th Street after being torn from its base by high winds during Superstorm Sandy. Pic: AP Photo/ John Minchillo

Plus, it’s not just natural events they have to contend with. “It’s all those other challenges the fire chiefs face,” said Maynes.

Political challenges, economic challenges; they have to make decisions based on a bad economy that they are not comfortable with. They need to prioritise and decide what’s the best value.

Above all, they need “to be flexible, to be able to adapt to outside the box”. In Queens, “we have the same challenges too”, said Maynes.

That ability to adapt and be flexible when unexpected things happen; and the other part is to research it, because history does repeat itself and sometimes we get caught when we shouldn’t have.

This backs up what John Ryan said of the ‘new reality’ facing Ireland’s fire service: it has “to adapt and be competent to meet current and future challenges against a background of budget and service constraints, changing personnel demography, greater scrutiny and wider demands on the service it delivers to the community”.

They may be thousands of miles apart, but Ireland and New York have much to learn from each other. Plus, as Maynes found out when he met his Irish family in Limerick, the world is a lot smaller than it may seem.

Read: Sons of Irish emigrant swept away in storm as mother ‘couldn’t get help’>

Pics: Superstorm Sandy hits the US>

Readers like you are keeping these stories free for everyone...
A mix of advertising and supporting contributions helps keep paywalls away from valuable information like this article. Over 5,000 readers like you have already stepped up and support us with a monthly payment or a once-off donation.

Close
29 Comments
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Fergal Barry
    Favourite Fergal Barry
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 9:33 AM

    The strength of character it takes to run into a burning building when everyone else is running from it is inspiring.. Hats off to the men/ women of the fire service and other frontline services.. You never truly appreciate them until you need them.

    98
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paul
    Favourite Paul
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 1:34 PM

    3 cheers for the emergency services and while we’re at it lets give them a paycut just to show our appreciation.

    13
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute OU812
    Favourite OU812
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 10:03 AM

    Forget your Beckhams & your Cruises & your Presleys.

    These men & women are true heroes & should be the ones looked up to by kids.

    48
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute 180maximum
    Favourite 180maximum
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 9:47 AM

    Nicely written article. Just one thing though, did any of the chief fire officers at the conference, who have never actually worked as firefighters, tell Mr Ryan about the Keeping Communities Safe plan that’s going to be implemented across the country? Where the fire service plans to reduce the amount of call types it attends. From water rescue to trees down, ambulance assists etc. And when they do respond, which you have to pay through the nose for, there’ll be even less firefighters on the appliances! All very well were budgets are directed to the right place and staff are respected, both by the employers and the public that they serve.

    40
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute ieoinu
    Favourite ieoinu
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 12:28 PM

    There is a major problem with the abuses made of our frontline public services. I’m all for sending out a bill. The common misconception is that they are free. Why would you call the fire brigade to a water rescue? Would you call the RNLI to a house fire? Trees being knocked down are an issue for the council.

    These services are abused (mainly by those who have never had to pay for anything) and if you charge for them people will appreciate their true worth.

    Every night we have ambulances picking up pissed youngsters off the street and mopping up their puke without it costing them a penny. Slap a bill in their lap and they’ll think a bit more the next time.

    10
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute 180maximum
    Favourite 180maximum
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 12:37 PM

    Trees being blown down on live electrical cables, endangering property, have you ever seen an RNLI lifeboat travel up the river liffey at 4 am in the morning to rescue someone that’s drowning? No but you’ve seen the fire brigade do it, and around most of the major towns with large rivers running through them! Firefighters are trained in swift water rescue for fast flowing water and inland waterways, your comment just shows the level of ignorance to what services the frontline staff there to protect you actually provide! Hats off to the RNLI volunteers, sea rescue is a different ball game altogether!

    19
    See 12 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute ieoinu
    Favourite ieoinu
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 12:55 PM

    I know more than you think my good lad ;-) Trees down on power lines is a job for the council and the ESB not the fire service. Water rescue is provided by the fire service when a specific alternative is not in existence in an area. That is why they have Equipment for such situations. The purpose of the review is to address the duplicity of service provision.

    The fire service tend to be called to situations at which they have no proper role or function. An RTA for example where there is nobody trapped or injured yet the fire service will be there cleaning up the mess, oil etc on the road, again this is a job for the council and road maintenance not highly trained firemen.

    The fire service are regularly called out to situations where the issue is really beyond or below their remit. Why? Because they’re there, are handy and they have the gear and the don’t charge.

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jim Brennan
    Favourite Jim Brennan
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 1:06 PM

    It’s not the firefighters who want the KCS implemented its the chief and the government . This plan has the potential to kill workers and the public , loss of equipment and training due budget cuts can only lead to a poorer service .

    9
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute 180maximum
    Favourite 180maximum
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 1:15 PM

    Well from your comments you know jack shit my friend, what’s the duties of the fire brigade? To protect life, protect property and render humanitarian aid! You might give us the benefit of your knowledge now and give us a run down on scene safety and fend off for RTA’S? No second option for water rescue? Explain that one as well? Not an assistant chief in one of our many many fire authorities are ya?

    10
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute ieoinu
    Favourite ieoinu
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 2:12 PM

    Read my post again! I’m no fireman or manager or whatever. I haven’t once criticised the service or the work done by its members. I am stating that it is a service that is abused by the public by calling out the fire service for calls that they should have nothing to do with. The cost of attending these calls effects a limited budget.

    You’re on about fending off traffic at an rta. That’s fine but the guards can do that too. I’m on about having a tender or two called out to a minor rta to clean up oil/debris. Where I live there is an inshore water rescue on 24hr call out so the fire brigade don’t get called out.

    There is a limited budget for pay/equipment/training so why should it be wasted fulfilling roles that should be carried out by other agencies such as the council, ESB etc.

    I’m not advocating for cuts to services, I’m stating that to avoid cuts that affect genuine emergency services that doing the work of other should be stopped. Now there may be an alternative motive for some of the fire service to want to respond to these non emergency calls and that us down to pay, and these calls pay.

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute David Snowe
    Favourite David Snowe
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 3:05 PM

    Do you think maybe they are there for fend off and for fire cover also? What use are the council or garda if a car bursts into flames and just because a person isn’t trapped in a car doesn’t mean the fire service isn’t needed,taking a roof of a car is usually the best way of dealing with spinal injuries

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute 180maximum
    Favourite 180maximum
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 3:21 PM

    You opened your reply to my post saying you know more than what I think, when in fact after reading your new posts I’m convinced that you know even less than I thought! You my good lad are a fool to be honest! And I would presume that you’ve never attended any kind of incident on a 2 or 3 lane motorway? You’d like a Ford mondeo garda car trying to stop 2 ton vehicles coming along at 100 kph? It’s about safety or can you not read into that bit? These are genuine emergencies as well by the way.

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute ieoinu
    Favourite ieoinu
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 5:03 PM

    @david, I am referring to calling out the FS’s to clean oil off a road, that is not a function that they need to tend to. I am not saying that they should not attend when required for removing a driver trapped in the car.

    @max… Stop being a drama queen and acting the tool. Nobody is questioning the FS’s role in dealing with accidents but and I will try to make this simple for even you to grasp; There are a lot if incidents that the FS attend that they should not be called for, such as the example I have given above where they attend SOLELY to clean the road. That is not their job, its the council’s. Re the motorway, the fire brigade definitely can have a function but there are other ways to stop the traffic too such as rolling road block, signage etc. the roads authority don’t use fire engines when they’re carrying out emergency works do they?

    I am not undermining the role of the fire service that is being done by the people calling them as emergency road sweepers, why should that come from the services budget. It undermines them as an Frontline Service (even though they did that themselves by negotiating a deal behind everyone’s backs) I have seen it on countless occasions where there is a non-emergency, such as a clean up and 2 tenders arrive. Why is that? It’s a waste but it counts as a call shows the fire service is busy and it pays the lads. Now unbunch your knickers and try and see the logic in what I’m saying. The resources should be kept for real emergencies

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute 180maximum
    Favourite 180maximum
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 9:13 PM

    I don’t know where you get your info from my oul friend but maybe you should stick to commenting on shit you actually might have a clue about? Are you familiar with an IPV? well if your not it an impact protection vehicle used during road works to absorb the impact of a vehicle should someone take their eye off the ball. Ya sound like you might be in a position of authority somewhere and used to speaking down to people judging by the way you reply to your comments. I can assure you that your the only tool here…..my friend!

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute ieoinu
    Favourite ieoinu
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 11:48 PM

    What sh1te are you smoking? IPV my arse. Are you telling me that the skills and expense of the FS are required to sweep up a bit of oil off the road? My god you really are a lamp.

    Nobody was suggesting that the FS aren’t required at accidents, it’s just that some accidents don’t need their service.

    I’m saying that their service is abused and that they respond to calls that they shouldn’t, shoring up inadequacies in other agencies. It’s the same with the EMTs being used to clean up drunks from our streets or as a jerry ferry moving elderly/infirm people around the country. Or the guards acting as social workers. There are agencies to provide these services already, so why should they be done and paid for by other services that are already stretched and broke? If you can’t see that you truely are a idiot.

    Spouting an acronym for a technical procedure or tool or whatever doesn’t bolster your argument. Try and stay on topic without spouting your technical lingo crap cos it’s completely irrelevant. By your idiotic reasoning you’d have the FS called out for every fender bender.

    I’m guessing you are one of these losers that get a horn every time you flick in the lights and sirens. Your bullshlt and attitude does a disservice to firemen/women as you are happy to denigrate them to emergency street cleaners.

    Maybe I’m wrong maybe you’re not in the FS, just a wannabe that wears the DFB tshirt out to the pub. I had thought you were somewhat clued in. IPV my hole, what a tool.

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute 180maximum
    Favourite 180maximum
    Report
    May 13th 2013, 12:09 AM

    I’ve worn a DFB shirt to work for the last 10 years and as for spouting technical crap your the one who came on here saying you know more than I think. I’ll just bring you back to what I said about scene safety earlier, about a safe working area for crews that arrive and then a risk assessment takes place, if we’re not needed we don’t stay, if there’s oil all over the road and we’re in charge of the scene and simply f@ck off because you think we should leaving the area unsafe for road users until the council arrive to sand the road, what happens then? Your not really up speed for this conversation…..

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute ieoinu
    Favourite ieoinu
    Report
    May 13th 2013, 12:38 AM

    I am up to speed my good man, and I do know more than you think. I will endeavour to try to spell it out for the last time, here it goes;
    1. The FS is a vital service that is required to assist those in the event if an emergency. It is staffed in general by courageous and well meaning people.
    2. It is one of our emergency services and is abused by the public and other services which use it to fulfil their duties. I have seen on a number of occasions where the FS have been called out specifically to clean a road after an RTA. The scenes were safe long before they arrived and often the cars were in the process of being removed. Now that is NOT their function, it’s that of the council. Calls like that should be refused because someday you’ll be out sweeping up a puddle of oil while somebody else really needs your help and skill. You IPV or whatever tangent you were going on about does not apply.

    3. The misuse of services is over stretching them beyond their limits and by responding to calls that are someone else’s job you’re only making it worse. People need to be billed for receiving the service, it’s not free. I am presuming you draw a wage, it comes for our, including your taxes, so does the council, so why do their job?

    You keep avoiding the points I’m making and going off on more tangents than a leaving cert mech drawing exam. Now go on away and sweep the roads to your hearts content cos I’m finished debating with a clown devoid of intelligence and logic.

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute jimmy haribo
    Favourite jimmy haribo
    Report
    Jun 9th 2013, 11:23 AM

    ref this conference, chief fire officers,,,,,,,,,,,, as a nation we have approx in total 2500 full time and retained fire fighters countrywide, we have thirty odd chief fire officers and assistants numbering 100 plus countrywide, civilian staff we have in total over 700 countrywide, northern ireland for approx same amount of fire fighters has 1, yes 1 chief and 2-3 assistants and approx 10 civilian staff. our country badly needs a national fire and ambulance service, the money saved by that buying power would be in the millions, the money saved by cutting TOP HEAVY OFFICERS would be in the millions, the training would be standard countrywide so firefighters could respond to all manner of emergencies countrywide and be familiar with all equipment and protocols, our chiefs DO NOT WANT THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! as it will the vast majority will be out of a job hence them not kicking about THE KCS document, in dublin we nearly lost a few firefighters a couple of years back in a fire, they had a very very lucky escape, radios didnt work as they are not rated for fires, yes a joke, you dont know the half of it

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jackets Green
    Favourite Jackets Green
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 8:58 AM

    Can you imagine firemen telling irish people to evacuate…………….they’d be battered by scobes.

    37
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute AD0099
    Favourite AD0099
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 9:35 AM

    maybe they could show Ireland how to dispatch an ambulance when a child falls from the 2nd floor of a building ?

    17
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute stephen deegan
    Favourite stephen deegan
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 10:08 AM

    Fire brigade doesn’t have ambulances outside Dublin. Things are different in ‘the country’.

    31
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute ieoinu
    Favourite ieoinu
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 12:13 PM

    We don’t have ambulances in the country full stop. The service has been stripped to the bones leaving huge areas with totally inadequate cover.

    14
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Keith
    Favourite Keith
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 9:47 AM

    The first thing the he must have thought was …..there are too many of ye for a small country ….

    14
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Tony Daly
    Favourite Tony Daly
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 11:01 AM

    I understand that the threat of a Superstorm anywhere near the scale of Sandy taking place in Ireland is minuscule.

    We need to match adequate resources to the real risks in Ireland.

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute ieoinu
    Favourite ieoinu
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 12:20 PM

    I understand that the threat of your house burning down or you being involved in a serious car crash are small too.
    Just because we don’t have regular typhoons doesn’t mean we don’t need to up skill those we call on in the unlikely event of a major disaster. In this country’s case it’s normally flooding but we can also get fairly hammered on the coasts too. Granted sand storm training may not be a priority.

    4
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Tony Daly
    Favourite Tony Daly
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 10:03 PM

    @ iionieu, we need to address the risks which actually have a real possibility of occurring in Ireland such as buildings on fire, vehicle crashes and even large scale disasters which have a risk of happening.

    Scale 4 or 5 hurricanes or typhoons are not a problem in Ireland and will not be unless or until the planet heats up by an overall 2 degrees C .

    1
    See 1 more reply ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute ieoinu
    Favourite ieoinu
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 11:55 PM

    I agree tony, training specific to what we may experience here. Now in the last few years we have seen a huge change in our weather. Granted we me not suffer a typhoon but we have had bad weather that has reeked havoc on those hit by it. The higher skill sets and training out emergency services are trained in the better in the event if them being required. It’s the abuse of these vital services which is the issue.

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute P Ryan
    Favourite P Ryan
    Report
    May 12th 2013, 8:56 AM

    Ha ha ha

    1
Submit a report
Please help us understand how this comment violates our community guidelines.
Thank you for the feedback
Your feedback has been sent to our team for review.
JournalTv
News in 60 seconds