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THOUSANDS OF LEAVING Cert students around the country took English Paper Two yesterday – and it seems to have contained some unexpected surprises.
Neither Sylvia Plath nor Seamus Heaney came up on the Higher level paper‘s poetry section, prompting a dismayed reaction from some.
One student went so far as to tweet a picture of teardrops on her exam paper. Here’s how the fallout went on Twitter, where the paper was trending last night.
Students face Geography and Maths Paper One today. Good luck to all!
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Good for her. I agree. Instead of #metoo it should be #weknew.
@Dj:
I like that
@Nick Allen: I like that too. Meryl Streep should have it engraved on her Oscars. But then again the Queen of Hollywood has us convinced she knew nothing. Probably the greatest acting of her career.
@Sinead Hanley: How to describe Meryl’s attitude toward Weinstein’s behavior: “Streep it under the rug.”!!.
@Dj: And people wonder why women stayed silent for as long as they did.
http://time.com/5090659/roy-moore-accuser-tina-johnson-home-fire/
Threats from fans of a paedophile like Moore or Polanski, but it suits the pedo fan club to rail against the victims for fear they’ll be the ones that have the light shed on their dark deeds next.
@DaisyChainsaw: So ridiculous, but typical of you to accuse people of a different point of view than yours of having done “dark deeds” this kind of talk is meant to intimidate people who don’t agree with you. Calling people fans of a pedo club. really shows the mentality of feminists like yourself, who are the perpetual victims, merely by just being a woman.
@Dj: yes, because knowing about something is SO much worse than actually doing it
@1in10arelefties: anyone that has ever accused a public figure, ever. That’s plenty of examples right there for you. Trump’s accusers for example. Clinton’s accusers. Any child that ever spoke out about a priest/teacher in this country.
@Bridget O’Hanlon: It’s sad to see anyone who said or did nothing at the time of an alleged assault to suddenly come out with accusations years later. Even if they’re afraid to speak surely they’d express a desire to do something or take some kind of action.
@Bridget O’Hanlon: all it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing.
@Virtual Architect: shame and power are the weapons used to achieve that result.
Great to see a truly brave woman speaking up. The divide and conquer only works on people who are still asleep. Connection and love win.
@Alan Moore: Truly brave individual in that case. What she is saying shouldn’t be granted further credence because of her gender, that’s where problems stemmed from in the first place.
@Alan Moore: True story!
@Alan Moore: She would make another great crazy french president.
Much of the response to this letter has been ad hominem attacks on the signatories rather than a real attempt to address the points of their argument. It seems to have become the norm these days to win arguments by silencing the opposition rather than engage in debate. You won’t change people’s minds by shouting them down.
@Cathal O’Neill: Shut up Cathal!
@Irish Patriot: that is not a proper ad hominem, Patriot, you really need to ignore his argument and say something about his character. Good effort, go again.
@Cathal O’Neill: The man convinced against his will holds the same opinion still.
@Alan Moore: Actually, Mr Smartypants, I was responding to his last sentence.
@Cathal O’Neill: Like the adhominem attacks on the victims of the likes of Weinstein, etc?
@Cathal O’Neill: STFU. Idiot.
Fantastic, at last, a reasonable logical beautiful woman speaks her mind, way to go Catherine, but be careful, the organization that started this witch hunt and intends to keep it going appear to be quite vicious, and will not let you get away with being reasonable towards men, its not allowed.
@Tom&Gerry: Someone ‘pesters’ my girlfriend, that’s it for them it. She will do something about it, and so will I.
But , on the other hand, George Hook would say it is probably her own fault. Maybe he’s right.
Actually, go ahead and ‘pester’ my wife. Who cares.
@andrew: You have a wife and also a girlfriend? You sly dog.
@andrew: which do you prefer ?
Your wife or girlfriend ?
Jaysus lads I’d say we all copped that at the exact same time
@andrew: FULL OF SHITE.
@Tom&Gerry: Shut up! You are far too sensible to be on here!
““Catherine Deneuve might have very different opinions about harassment if she weren’t an extraordinarily beautiful, very rich white woman living in a bubble of heightened privilege. And had some empathy,” tweeted New York Times cartoonist Colleen Doran.”
I think this goes to show the lack of intelect from those criticising her. Most of the women allegedly attacked were beautiful, rich white women living in a bubble of privilege.
It’s also a horrifically sexist, racist and classist remark.
@neilo: *numpty
@neilo: back at ya !
@neilo: at least you took it well :)
@neilo: I thought foodies comments were excellent. He spoke the truth.
Can I sign??
@Kate Flaherty: oh Lord! Give me patience. So whenever a randomer fondles you or rub his genitals against you in the bus, you class the incident as a non-event.
@María Eugenia Baiardi: Did you report that offence to the cops when that happened to you?
She is right.
@DaisyChainsaw: Did you read the letter, or did you just read the reports about the letter?
@DaisyChainsaw: you’ve missed the point of the letter altogether..
@DaisyChainsaw: thats a disgusting comment you deserve to be kicked off this forum.
@Declan Carroll: . So whenever a randomer fondles you or rub his genitals against you in the bus, you class the incident as a non-event. I guess somebody has to enjoy it.
@neilo: The text of the letter is not below. The slightly inaccurate and awkward translation of the text of the letter is below.
@María Eugenia Baiardi: You’re clearly not well.
@DaisyChainsaw: Sometimes women show a lack of self control, do you think that should be tolerated?
Are they a bit rapey? whatever that means.
@María Eugenia Baiardi: If a person has touched you inappropriately, why have you not reported it, it is a crime you know. Next time it happens, as it seems to happen to you a lot, take a photo of the guy, and go to the police.
@neilo: Read it for yourself and decide for yourself. Or find a more reliable translation.
Your opinion is an opinion (as opposed to a fact), but you’re basing it on false information (a seemingly poor reading of an imprecise translation).
In my opinion, none of the sentiments in the French text are dim, nor are they laughable. The subject matter is not laughable either.
I guess showbiz is exactly like politics and finance – as long as you have enough money, you can buy your way out from the justice system.
Time that changes.
Will Harvey Weinstein ever go behind bars?
@Franklin Roosevelt:
Can you prove that he committed a crime in a court of law?
@Thought for Food: did he sexually assault somebody in a court room. My oh my, what’s the world coming to?
@Tom Burke: Now Tom, that is just stupid.
Shame on her for having an opinion
@Robot: In all of this the implication is that it’s older men who wish to continue with a somewhat old fashioned treatment and view of women, yet it has always been my experience that this isn’t the case.
I’ve always found that it’s been older and middle aged men who treat women, particularly younger women, around them with a somewhat chivalrous degree of respect. It’s these middle aged and older men who are disdainful of younger men who curse, speak disrespectfully around women and openly paw at them.
Yes, there will always be exceptions of all age brackets but these shouldn’t be confused with a particular “type” of man, rather they fit into a bracket know as the a$$hole and are easily recognised and can be heard from a distance.
An excerpt from an English translation of the letter
‘This summary justice has already had its victims: men who’ve been disciplined in the workplace, forced to resign, and so on., when their only crime was to touch a woman’s knee, try to steal a kiss, talk about “intimate” things during a work meal, or send sexually-charged messages to women who did not return their interest.”
The letter defends the right of men to “ bother” women, to importune them, even if not wanted, to do so in the workplace with no regard to the seniority of their position or the misuse of position to take advantage.
The letter reflects an old fashioned view of men as primitive, lacking sophistication, needing to be free to try to pick up women in work, to do so with any women, including those in a professional role.
It is interesting that the 100 women are all self employed, free agents, independent, successful. Looking at the age profile, these are women who are well established and at least half of them are over 60 years of age.
I was surprised to see that a woman ought not to feel traumatised by a man or men rubbing up against them in the Metro.
The letter assumes that their defence of men is equivalent to opposing censorship in the arts but that is a separate issue.
@Fiona deFreyne: Here’s a link to the original letter, in French. The translation in English is both incomplete and incorrect.
@Philip O Brien: Since Le Monde has a paywall, the complete letter can be found here. It’s a lot more elegant than the English translation
@neilo: The sentiment is only the same if you base that sentiment on a prejudiced (where you decide in advance, possibly based on your life experiences or on the hype already surrounding this issue) misreading of an already imprecise translation.
“Witch Hunt against men” uh huh.
@Veronica: Oh you’re back. Stone cold sober as a matter of fact.
@Irish Patriot: not really bud.
@Veronica: shes right its snowballing
@shanekeogh:
A bit of snowballing can be exciting
@Nick Allen: ew
@Boutros Boutros-Ghali: Just Googled that. Wish I hadn’t. Gross.
@Irish Patriot: Tasting your own isn’t great but it’s a hell of a lot better than tasting someone else’s.
@Veronica: how come the french articles about this refer to Mme Deneuve as an “actrice”, whereas the only refer to her as a generic actor here? Misandrists such as Veronica have ruined gender in the news.
@Grotmaster: Haven’t we all tasted our own? I can’t be the only one… can I?….
@Nick Allen: sure wasn’t the film just great
@Gulliver Foyle: Brilliant point. You must be clever.
And I use to laugh at men with inflatable dolls.Guess who’s laughing now.
This women is a real women.Not a dirty,man hating feminist.She understands human nature.
@neilo: Catherine Deneuve is and all the other real women who signed, I think this should be posted on twitter, lets just see how many women and men around the world agree with her stance, I would say all the feminatzis would be in for a big surprise, they thought they had the men of the world beaten, with their witch hunt. This turn of events is going to be epic.
@Tom&Gerry: the letter should be posted on twitter.
AMAB is not an argument. Nor is branding half the human race ”pigs”.
So you guys are ok if your daughters, mothers or sisters are fondled on the metro. You’ll them it was a non-event.
@María Eugenia Baiardi: It’s okay when they do the fondling of other people’s daughters mothers or sisters though.
@María Eugenia Baiardi: <>
Try again to twist the words. You’re doing great for someone shooting at non-existent ducks.
@Philip O Brien: Elle peut veiller à ce que son salaire soit égal à celui d’un homme, mais ne pas se sentir traumatisée à jamais par un frotteur dans le métro, même si cela est considéré comme un délit. Elle peut même l’envisager comme l’expression d’une grande misère sexuelle voire comme un non-événement.
@María Eugenia Baiardi: Dream on Maria.
@DaisyChainsaw: You are making this scenario up, where and when has this ever happened to you , and what did you do about it?
@María Eugenia Baiardi: Who said fondling people on the metro is OK? I’d beat up someone for doing that. But even when an issue does exist you can depend on feminists to blow it statistically out of proportion and use it as a political stick to beat society with. e.g. Rape culture on campus?? I’ve had women tell me they’d like to be forced to have sex. I’ve never accepted that invitation as it’s insane and against my principles, but it just shows how bonkers and dangerous many women can be.
@Philip O Brien: could you translate that for me?
@Virtual Architect: Great post.
Women have been victims of male dominance and unfairly treatedvand objectified. There should have geen an outrage years sgo in hollywood. The suffragettes should never be forgotten. However this me too reaction or counter action seems yo be based on anger hatred and is not benefitial for hatmonious society
No doubt there are dirty poor old men and dirty old men who are rich and powerful.
Same goes for women.
Guilt is for law to decide on case by case.
It’s all about the circumstances; the environment and the intention.
No man or women should resist calling the police due to inferred intimidation or loss of career or monetary gain.
Not even stardom should make a person think twice about telling the police.
Men too, should take a stand and demand no more sexually explicit bombardments of the senses.
Let’s put an end to the all pervasive sexualisation of women.
Both men and women should behave themselves but, pop videos etc are porn aimed at kids.
Let’s have a campaign about that.
No excuses!
Sexual grooming and manipulation is wrong no matter where it comes from.
Just saying like.
@Brendan McLaughlin: Jibber jabber.
Attacks on #metoo are similar to attacks on #blacklivesmatter. They are made by those who don’t have to suffer the consequences of misogyny and racism.
@Kevin Geraghty: Critizing or having different opinions is not an “attack”. Stop being so dramatic. Anyone can suffer racism, regardless of their political opinions so your comment is bollox anyway.
#pasmoi
@Irish Patriot: femenists are the people version of Henry Ford’s line you can have any colour as long as its black. They also defeat their own purpose of empowering women to have a voice when they can’t have an opinion of their own.
@Lad: Mansplaining 101.
@DaisyChainsaw: why do you hate men DaisyChainsaw? Why do you label them all the same and tar them with a brush of disgust? I’m genuinely interested in what goes through the mind of someone like you and the motivation/insecurity that propels assumptions and dislike for millions of people you have never met.
Do you feel unworthy as a person? Do you think your ugly? How have men wronged you so badly for you to become bitter and toxic?
You need to love yourself more and stop being outraged about things you have no control over. Be productive and take care of the things you can control.
@Lad: Surely you know by now that people having different opinions is a lambasting offence around here. How dare you point that out. I am now offended on other people’s behalf.
No one should be sexually assaulted in the workplace and I admire any woman who comes forward if it happens to them,. I will teach my boys to respect and treat woman as equals, never hold open doors for them, never compliment there looks or flirt with them unless they have written permission to do so, never be in a position where they can be accused of anything. I will always remind them that they are decent, well brought up boys, who just happen to be of a sex that is now stereotyped!
You all happy now?
@Brian Smith: As a woman, i hold doors open for anyone in the immediate vaccinity. Their genitals are irrelevant.
I also won’t grab your son’s genitals or put my hands on them or try to kiss them.
Hopefully you’ll be just as decent to women as will your son’s.
@Ciara Ni Mhurchu: don’t think I mentioned anything about anyone’s genitalia in my post, unlike you!!!! You are the type of person I will advise them to run a million miles from. As you are the type of person who makes accusations and generalisations about them due to their sex!!! Have an unhappy lonely life.
@Brian Smith: there is a difference between chatting up a person saying nice things etc. Say nice dress you look good etc, do not say nice tits ar*e c*ck cos at the end of the day the tits and a*ses and c*cks are attached to a brain and are human beings. Not hard really.
@Brian Smith: Well said Brian, despite my user name i am a woman, i feel exactly as you do. I am very concerned for my sons growing up in this crazy world.
@Róisín Daly: Brian never mentioned any of those crude descriptions of male and female genitalia, you did. Speaks volumes about the type of person you really are.
@Tom&Gerry: no Brian didn’t but men have said that to me and worse separating my body parts from me as a person. I do apologise for hurting your feelings calling parts of the body for what they are that we all have both men and women. Tits ar*e co*ks! Ha ha ye are offended by the word boobs? Grow up love
@Róisín Daly: I don’t understand the need for your crudeness, especially on a subject like this. But maybe that is just the type of woman or man you are.
The number of men commenting on here who seem to think that touching women or kissing them is Ok without their consent is frightening.
Lads, if your sister, mother or daughter came home some evening upset because a man touched her inappropriately without her consent would it be acceptable to you?
@neilo: I can now Neil! #poormen
Half the men commenting on here blame all Muslims when there’s an attack by a Muslim. By their logic we could blame all men for rape and sexual assault.
I adore the men in my life but I’m sad for the female relatives of some men on here. They’re sexual assault apologists.
@Ciara Ni Mhurchu: they are trolling for the sake me thinks.
@neilo: I am so happy that you have finally seen the light. Yes neilo, there is a war on men, but as you can see the men are fighting back, it’s everywhere, cant you see it, well done lads, don’t back down, no matter what names you are called.
@Ciara Ni Mhurchu: I’ts best not to bring race into this, it only confuses the issue. This debate is good, men are fighting back, it is so good to know that there are good honest beautiful successful women who like men, who do not look on all men as predators, who enjoy, being seduced and flirted with. For a while there it looked like it was curtains for the male populations of the world, now its time to put you men hating feminists back in your box. Just marvellous.
@Ciara Ni Mhurchu: What about if my son came home, upset because a woman had touched him inappropriately without his consent, would it be acceptable to me, definitely not.
@neilo: Just trying to point out to you that sexual harassment works both ways, sometimes it’s the men who are guilty and sometimes it’s the women.
I don’t get what’s so wrong with the metoo thing. A lot of women have been assaulted and worse. A lot of them made little or nothing of it at the time. So they’re walking around with these awful stories only a few of their close friends know about. And their assaulters for the most part got away without even having to answer an accusation. So some women to show solidarity with each other and particularly their fellow victims decided to share their stories. Also to let the world know that this stuff is so prevalent which some people might not realise because it’s hard to talk about. That’s the gist right? What’s so wrong with that? I’ve heard way too many terrible stories from exes, friends and family long before this metoo thing. I’m glad people are trying to make it easier to talk about and harder for the rapist assaulter to get away with. Some people here. And apparently some famous women in France think it’s a bad thing. WTF? As the kids say.
@Mark Gearey: the reason the men “got away” with these crimes is because they were not reported to the police at the time.
Officer, he made an unwanted sexual advance at me…..
@Gareth Cooney: I never mentioned any men. And I definitely wasn’t talking about unwanted sexual advances. Read it again. I make reference to friends and family of mine who were abused, assaulted etc. Have you seriously never had a woman in your life tell you a story like that. Are you seriously reducing all rape, sexual abuse and assault to unwanted advances. Read my post again maybe or gfy if you prefer.
@Gareth Cooney: There’s a story on the Journal today about a 14 year old girl forced into prostitution by three young men. You probably think she should get over herself. It was only a series of unwanted sexual advances after all right?
@Gareth Cooney: You are equating rape with an unwanted sexual advance. Have you ever made an unwanted sexual advance? I’d join the dots for you but the Journal’s scatter gun moderation might block or remove my comment again. I’ll have to ban myself again before I make a death threat or something.
@Mark Gearey: yeah, sorry for being here Mr/Ms Journal. The SF guys are fun but this is my limit. Back to more sane comments sections with me. Sorry for all the drama. It’s like watching Jeremy Kyle and complaining about the calibre of the guests.
Women have been victims of male dominance and unfairly treatedvand objectified. There should have geen an outrage years sgo in hollywood. The suffragettes should never be forgotten. However this me too reaction or counter action seems yo be based on anger hatred and is not benefitial for hatmonious society
Fair play to Murphy brown.
@Nollaig Elliot: I think the point is that society treat it as a non event because its difficult to successfully prove in court to elicit a justified conviction. Because people don’t bother as its not worth the additional stress it has been taken that this is now approval for behaviour that is clearly disrespectful and unwanted
So if a bloke was on the train/ bus/ office and some big gorgeous gay dude decided to put his hands on your a*se some of ye lads here would be OK with that? You too would be mouthing off to the world! This #metoo movement was started by a African woman ten years ago. If you are fathers of female children are you going to teach them that’s it’s what you have to expect and to put up and shut up. No I didn’t think so….
@Róisín Daly: I would expect and encourage my daughter to speak out at the time of any incident, but not suddenly come out with it years later having said or done nothing.
@Virtual Architect: So if she wanted to come out with it years later, to show solidarity with other women, you’d say what to her exactly? It’s too late, it’s not fair on the man now cos the trail has gone cols? You know a lot of women found it hard to accuse people immediately after the event. Probably they got the impression they should just let it slide and/or they wouldn’t be believed.
@Virtual Architect: So YOU expect your daughter to mention her sexual abuse or assault around the time it happens? As a 37 year old woman I can assure you that’s not how trauma works.
It can take years for a woman to feel it’s ok to say she has been abused.
The shame and stigma associated with abuse makes it difficult to acknowledge that you have been abused and attitudes like yours add to that shame and stigma. Another reason men tend not to report their abuse at all.
@Virtual Architect: I see you didn’t answer my other question about some lad putting his hands on your ar*e without your permission.
She’s probably in denial.
“Counterblast”. My god, what a stupid word!
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