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THE CITIZENS’ ASSEMBLY on Drugs Use is to vote today on its key recommendations to the Government.
The assembly is expected to recommend possible policy, legislative and operational changes to Ireland’s drug policy.
One of the most debated issues that has been considered by the assembly is whether a policy of drug decriminalisation for personal use should be put in place in Ireland.
Although the exact policy may differ in some ways, essentially decriminalisation means that those caught in possession of a small amount of illegal drugs would not be prosecuted under the justice system, but instead diverted to health authorities.
Campaigners have long called for this approach to be implemented in Ireland, as part of a wider move towards a health-based approach to tackling drug use.
But what do you think?
Today we’re asking, Should the possession of drugs for personal use be decriminalised?
With reporting from Eimer McAuley
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Personal use is fine, say if you grow your own etc. you have to ask the question where does class A drugs come from. No matter if it’s for personal use you’re paying drug gangs and that’s not ok
@mainmsam: well then legalise them so people aren’t giving money to the organised crime gangs… there is not one single stand up argument for keeping them illegal..
@: you get the point though buddy and if you don’t you need to look in the mirror with a comment like that
@Stiles: legalization is not the same as decriminalization!
@Stiles: so do all the lads dealing in drugs just get jobs?
@Stiles:
You want the state to sell crack cocaine and heroin?
@Tommy Haze: I dont claim to have all the answers or what structure should be used but I can see clearly that the present system is not working. Diageo is the biggest drug dealer in the country, to the best of my knowledge they haven’t shot anybody. hazard a guess why? don’t confuse a pro legalisation / decriminalisation stance with a pro doing drugs stance. these drug are going nowhere so we need to accept that and focus on harm reduction.
@Silvio Berlusconi: did I say it was.. ?
@Stiles: Hear hear
@Tommy Haze: we give free Methadone (heroin substitute) to addicts, they can get clean needles in Merchants Quay and medically supervised injection rooms are on the way. The HSE gave 50,000 crack pipes to users in a 5 year period. That process has started.
@: Of course this is all nonsense.
Portland worked very well. the issue there is opioids, And that was big pharma getting a nation hooked. That this is a negative consequence of legalisation is a completely debunked nonsense.
The same is true of Portugal. People there in the system don’t blame decriminialisation, but the ending of funding for TREATMENT. Which recently happened under it’s new government.
And of course even now Portugal has twice our population and HALF our drug overdose deaths. Some failure.
Thailand is ANOTHER bit of BS. They decriminalised it but put in place NO OTHER LEGISLATION. It became a free for all. No help for addicts, etc. They offer a lesson in how to screw up ANYTHING.
As for the rest of your stigmatising silliness: Study after study has shown that stigmatising drug use is one of the main causes of death and crime related to drugs. Talk about an own goal suggestion.
@Stiles: if we can grow or produce the drug that’s fine. But the coca plant can only be grown in certain areas. The supply line to get the product from there to here is steeped in blood. Legalising it does not stop the killing.
@Declan O’Brien: Im not trying to stop anything declan.. what other country’s do is their business.. I’m just saying we need to accept drugs are here to stay and we need to focus on harm reduction..
@ciaran o dowd: Would that be a bad result? People getting jobs?
@Declan O’Brien: The supply of coca leaves to the Stephan company in New Jersey, who produce the extract used in Coca-Cola as well as cocaine for the pharmaceutical industry, is not steeped in blood because it is a LEGAL suplly chain just like any other suplly chain.
@Stiles: surely not class A drugs though. Weed/cannabis should be ok I’d say. Less harm than class A
@Stiles: just look at the harm and cost to the taxpayer of alcohol and smoking to see the stand up argument for keeping them illegal.
@Stiles: Look at America.
People drugged out of their brains in broad daylight on main streets.
People who take drugs are a threat to the rest of the public.
Cocaine causes people to commit extreme acts of violence.
Tackle the root cause (poverty and hopelessness).
I see Ireland is set to stay in the dark ages . When you have the chair of the drugs debate all ready saying no , you get the feeling the pitch is not even . Meanwhile literally hundred thousands of people who use cannabis will continue to prop up crime gangs and risk getting a criminal record . Meanwhile the vintners association and the government encourages people to go out and get hammered on alcohol
@BL Music: can you show us where “the vintners association and the government encourages people to go out and get hammered on alcohol”?
Any advertising for this “getting hammered”?
Any public policy encouraging “getting hammered”?
No?
Just more BS from you!
@Alison Hughes: supporting you’re comment I have never had to drag my kids into the house in the middle of the day due to the smell of alcohol coming from the neighbours garden
@Alison Hughes: go into Dublin City and you will have all the proof you need . The gov even cut the vat rate for publicans .
28% of all injury attendances in Accident and Emergency departments in acute hospitals were related to alcohol.
Alcohol-related hospital discharges increased by 92% between 1995 and 2002.
Incidence rates for cancer of the liver had the highest increase of all cancer rates between 1994 and 2003.
The number of new alcohol-related cancers will more than double for females and increase by 81% for males in the period 2005 to 2020.
Alcohol affects an adolescent brain differently from an adult brain and damage from alcohol use during adolescence can be long term and irreversible.
Almost half of men and over a quarter of women agreed that drinking alcohol had contributed to their having had sex without contraception.
Between 1995 and 2004, sexually transmitted infections (STIs) increased by 217%.
Alcohol was a contributory factor in 36.5% of all fatal crashes in 2003.
Between 1996 and 2002, public order offences by adults increased by 247% (from 16,284 to 56,822); they decreased in 2003 and 2004 but increased again in 2005.
Have we not had this poll many times already?
@brian madden: possibly, let’s have a poll on that
@brian madden: The Journal seem to be really forgetful. They also seem to be unaware of many really important issues happening right now that people would like to comment on. So they give us this poll. Again.
Why did they close the comments on rugby match last night? Any ideas? I thought it was a bit weird.
Looking at the amount who voted ‘yes’, I didn’t realise there’d be so many stoners up at this time of the morning.
@Andy Felthersnatch: which should make you stop, think, and re-evaluate your opinions on drug use.
@Andy Felthersnatch: every single person I know that does drugs regularly holds down a full time job with no more issues than someone that drinks regularly.
@Chris O’Brien: Drug dealing is not a full-time job, part-time at the very most.
@Andy Felthersnatch: He was talking about drug users. The vast vast majority of them do not end up in prison, rehab or robbing OAPs
@Andy Felthersnatch:
Very unsociable hours in the gear economy alright!
@Andy Felthersnatch: ….. or idiots!
@Tomaldo: We’re only interested in the tiniest amount of people when defining policy, we all need to be protected from ourselves.
@Tomaldo: but the low life dealer they pay for their personal use drugs is quite happy to rob OAP’s etc to subsidise their lifestyle. You need to see the larger picture here, and not just falsely believe that they’re “weekend/days off from job personal drug habit” is doing nobody else any harm. It is !…..
@Andy Felthersnatch: just showing your ignorance here. Pity you.
@Chris O’Brien: You don’t know what impact it has on their home life or children or partners. Many charismatic drinkers turn into Mr Hyde when they close the front door.
@Andy Felthersnatch: as usual your perception of cannabis users is inaccurate and farcical
The present disastrous drugs policy being implemented, is a ffg tool to prohibit solidarity between citizens. They know if citizens discover unity on issues. Ffg grift is over
In all seriousness, Irish hospitals are inundated with people whom have just smoked, eaten, drank, drugged themselves to ill health over their lives. Your taxes are mopping up and being soaked up fixing ten of thousands suffering from self induced sickness. Meanwhile other ill citizens sit on waiting lists for treatment for illnesses outside their control
@Temp Stuff: Remembering that:
- many drug addicts have mental health issues
- Ireland has no mental health services
- like with the US and A&E, this leads to a situation where one service is swamped because another doesn’t exist
- and of course, the biggest drugs that send people to A&E are alcohol and tobacco, not illegal drugs,
Also worth noting that JUST the lack of resources to diagnose and treat ADHD costs the state over a billion a year. If you’re concerned about taxes.
And we have lost billions a year to garbage housing. And incompetent management of building projects.
And of course, legalising drugs will generate billions in revenue for the state.
@Chris O’Brien: Don’t be comin’ ’round here with none of yer reasonable comments, yer not welcome here with that sort of sensible shtuff! ;)
@Temp Stuff: The same people suffer from untreated mental health issues, lack of education on nutrition, poor quality food due to poverty, etc. etc etc. Not everyone is born into a middle-class environment.
Decriminalisation doesn’t work.
That still leaves all the money to organised crime, including removing any chance to pay for treatment etc, with drugs related tax money.
Legalise drugs, strip the power and money from organised crime, control the quality, invest the revenue in healthcare and police.
Or just keep on doing the same old failed nonsense in perpetuity.
Legalise cannabis and allow growing a few plants at home.
@Jak M: The best way to go, theres a huge community of home growers around the world, all the kit is already available and can be fully automated. Don’t see how anyone can point the finger at a home-grower and accuse them of ‘funding terror’ (or some similar bs).
Absolutely no problem with decriminalisation of these drugs. However, if people make the choice to have drugs then they need to be prepared to pay 100% for the health conditions that arise as a result of using. Same for smokers and drinkers, you become addicted to something bye choice (and it is a choice), be prepared to pay for your own treatment. Pay no taxes on these items, so you can’t argue you are contributing to the tax take. Let there be more freedoms in society but be absolutely clear that freedoms come with consequences and responsibility.
@Chris Thaunton: who’s paying for their health care at the moment Chris?
@Chris Thaunton:
Who is paying for the healthcare of:
Drinkers
Smokers
The obese
Let’s do the far right thing and make everyone pay for ONLY their health care issues.
What a ridiculous idea.
@Chris Thaunton: It’s not a choice Chris.
Knowing people who are addicted to alcohol there is a recurring theme of childhood trauma and sexual abuse.
@Chris Thaunton: You sound like you live in a nice comfy bubble Chris.
You need to get out more. Just 10 companies control food supply in the west – 10.
They mainly produce sugary salty fatty foods which result in diabetes, obesity, high-blood pressure, heart disease, etc. They make trillions out of pushing nutrition free health damaging products on children from an early age – Happy Meals get children young just like religion. Here’s a novel idea, how about the companies making ridiculous profits funding healthcare for the problems that they generate?
@Chris Thaunton: “Pay no taxes on these items, so you can’t argue you are contributing to the tax take.”
You think there’s no tax on Cigs or Alcohol?
Huge taxes applied after 1 year of introduction.
So, possession for supply will continue to be illegal but possession for personal use could be legalised. So how does one get around the illegal link in the chain?
@Ian McDonald: one doesn’t. And worse it leave all the gangs and organised crime with even more power and money than before.
Legalisation is all that would ACTUALLY work.
Only if the supplier is a recognised by the public health authorities and sold in chemist shops and record taken of users no prescription required
@Vincent Higginbotham: so I won’t need a prescription for valium any more, yippee
No. Because it will only embolden the criminal supply of drugs to the community. This pc attitude of feeling sorry for the user when it’s their demand that drives & encourages the criminals to supply, at cost of many lives. To win the war on drugs it’s the demand that needs to be tackled, not the supply. No demand no supply. Go hard on users of all walks of life. Fines & prison. Fill the prisons & to hell with the pc humanity bs. Cram them in with bare essentials provided. No tv/PlayStation etc. make prison a real deterant .
@Mike Carson: of course this is all based on some fantasy world in your own head.
For generations the world has done exactly what you’ve said. Guess what the outcome has been:
Record drug addiction
Record drug deaths
Record drug revenue for gangs
Record levels of drugs in the community
Guess what policy has reduced ALL of those things AND generated billions in revenue for the state: Decriminalisation.
No other policy has moved these issues in the right direction.
You’re advocating for vast harm to society, including increased harm to drug users.
And btw, lol, it’s easier to get drugs in prisons than on the streets. Many people START using harder drugs in prison.
So, while it must be fun to be Mr Macho and pretend these decades old failed policies will suddenly work, that notion is just a dangerous fantasy.
@Mike Carson: yes, let’s continue to do the same thing but expect completely different outcomes.
@Mike Carson: That has never worked, at any time or in any place. Why do you think it would “win the war on drugs”? How do you not understand that the war on drugs is unwinnable?
The exploration of consciousness and alteration of perception through the use of drugs have always been practiced by humans (some even theorise that the evolution of apes into modern humans was led by consumption of hallucinogenic mushrooms); this tendency is hard wired into the human psyche for millennia.
To believe that this ancient and innate part of the human condition can be changed or effective suppressed by poorly conceived laws dreamed up in the last fifty years shows extraordinary lack of understanding.
@Mike Carson: Explain how is a home-grower is funding a criminal gang?
@Mike Carson: That is why legalisation and regulation is the right answer.
If decriminalised, what happens if some irresponsible individual gets in to his/her car and ends up killing someone???
@Fred Coloe: Oh my God, please do not use the internet for anything, ever.
@Chris Thaunton: lol
@Chris Thaunton: Lol! excellent
Problem drug use is a perfectly human response to trauma.
Shuusshh….When it’s legalised…They can TAX It!!! Don’t let them know!!!
Caffeine can lead to heroin
@Mary Toilet: Gripe water can lead to Absinthe mindlessness!
@Mary Toilet: White wine is a gateway drug
Is_NOT_rael should be discriminalised. Boycott BDS
Cannabis is an amazing, natural plant. In existence for thousands of years. It’s life changing stuff. But big pharma want you to keep taking all those little pills.
@: It causes schizophrenia, psychosis, sleeplessness and anxiety over time. Hardly harmless.
No government nor assembly of citizens will tell me what I may or may not consume. Legalise, quality control and tax to boost public income and cover the costs of any addiction services needed. Think of the millions to be saved by putting guards onto really worthwhile cases, such as murder, grand larceny etc. Home production, if possible, will also neutralise the criminal gangs currently meeting the people’s needs. No-one will EVER stop drug use, so we should do what’s needed to make it safe and not injurious to society generally, the way alcohol and tobacco are injurious to society generally. No-one gets arrested for THOSE two drugs. Which is utter hypocrisy. Statistics from around the globe show that where there is tolerance of recreational drug use, the numbers using decrease.
Very grey area between personal use and small deliveries being done locally.
@Vincent Hughes: We do love a grey area here. At least we used to until the actions of a handful of people started to drive policy to the detriment of everyone else. Were champions of lowest common denominator politics. Honestly it grows so easy it’s kind of insane that there’s even a marketplace.
By ‘drugs’ for personal use I understand coke and other tablet/capsule concoctions, not hash. No, unprescribed drugs of that kind are not medicinal and consumers feed the international narcotics trade. A trade that breeds lethal gangsterism and misery among consumers.
@Garreth Byrne: lol ‘Hash’… I have the 1990s on the phone for you?
Always the big dirty ‘spliff’ picture, cannabis has moved on heaps in the last decade but still the visual association is always sleaze. Be very surprised if it isn’t lobbed in with class A life threatening substances and continues to be considered so by the fatheaded, no doubt decrying ‘don’t tread on me’ while 100% wanting to tell you how to live.
The legislation as is there in Irish law covers drug offences, the law is enough. Persons caught with drugs go to court, if they go to drug treatment and have clean tests over 6 months then the court can clear their records. What drives people to take drugs in the first place? Inequality in society plays a role for some, stress and pressure in professional roles drives others, not everyone has the same opportunities in life, there are wider issues that lead to spikes in drug use, the lack of supply and high cost of housing for rent or to buy is playing a part, the absence of mental health services is another problem. Any addiction is damaging, be it drugs, alcohol, gambling or whatever, it’s the people who care about the addict who are damaged as well
If you see a pair of shoes hanging from the overhead electric wires, you’re in luck
@Mary Toilet:
Unless you’re still in them of course!
Yes.
@Setanta O’Toole: NO! The law should be fully enforced – I have seen the results of the damage drugs does to people. Even those just using cannabis – it does big damage to the weary they think and behave.
@Martin Caulfield: Nope.
@Martin Caulfield: nobody else has seen it i guess Marty. The law is fully enforced now and prevents none of the negative effects you mention. Legalisation would take the profits for criminal gangs and stop people with addiction being excluded from society because of minor convictions, offering them a greater chance of rehabilitation.
Organised crime types will lower their prices if drugs are decriminalised in order to compete!!
@Fred Coloe:
That’s Leo-liberal free market econonics for ya!
Dark ages huh. Free for all drugs is so modern aswell. Sure let’s give out free heroin and fentanyol is probably coming soon too so lots more O’Connell Street zombies going about. Then we will see what the real dark ages was
It’s always a good idea to do something that will turn young people into paranoid zombies. After all, they are our future.
@John Mulligan: Well you’re clearly not!
@John Mulligan: i’ve been a lot more paranoid after a night on the sauce than i ever was on anything else.
@John Mulligan: You could try raising them John?
@Thesaltyurchin: Are you suggesting he could raise children, or drugs?
Yes, yes, 1000 times yes!!
Unfortunately, Big Pharma doesn’t agree.
The vote shows the amount of people shoving coke up their nose but wait till their Children start using-they’ll soon change their tune.
That’s quite a broad poll. Depends on a lot.
No because cops will be able to spend more time on the radar gun
@Timo:
They probably won’t be as alert and laser focussed though! ;~]
No…
Certain drugs should definitely be decriminalised, e.g., Cannabis & Alcohol. Hard drugs definitely need a health lead approach. All drug abuse should have supports available for people that need help. If a person drinks regulated Alcohol once a week, or smokes regulated Cannabis once a week, and is working away and not bothering anyone, I wouldn’t see that as drug abuse.
@Michael Mc Gee: Yes, seems reasonable. I’d imagine there are other circumstances too. Medical treatment. So long as they don’t expect people to buy cocaine & double their working hours.
It’s all gone very quiet on the proposed 4-day work week.
Sure why stop there why not put it on the medical card. Clowns but if the morons that is in government now want to get back in it will be no surprise if we see them coming up with that one
Any one caught with illegal drugs, like cannabis should be given a kernal punishment, like ten lashes on the spot…unless there is a medical reason!
Which drugs exactly? Cannabis, or heroin, crack cocaine etc etc?
@socheallaigh: I suspect it’s hard to get a list of official ingredients as long as they’re all illegal. At least regulation would solve that problem.
That’s the wrong question.
The thin end of the wedge
@Michael Mcevoy: what thin edge? The drugs that cause most harm to society and deaths are alcohol and tobacco.
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