i die a little everytime i hear we’ve turned a corner!!!!!!!

So many corners are being turned is it not obvious we are going around in circles?

Circles don’t have corners…….

Or an infinite amount of corners………..

Going around in polygons. It’s a German phrase.

Great work! It looks like we’re gathering some momentum. But we need alot more to join. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bMbo2Gwa6WY&feature=related

Perry should reveal where his next illegal outing will be. This is terrible carry on. PWC were doing a job of work and there is no justification for treating them like this bunch of hooligans are treating them.

Didn’t pwc write a nice report for Brian lenihan that said the banks were not bust in 2008. How many million did they charge?, did the government ask for a refund for this fantasy/fiction.

And well said by you

@Rory Conway. “and totally shut up”, my it sounds like a Southsider is upset. Well done to the protesters, wind up all the white collar crooks, we know the IFSC is full of them.

It’s the government that use them not joe broke shower of bluffers but not to worry Fitch gave us the thumbs up next time you walk past a disabled person stuck at home because of mobility allowance give them the thumbs up for Fitch

Not being flippant, but the sort of people who protest €100 water charges are not likely to be KPMG customers.

Yeah but Andy, they are doing it for our good, aren’t they?

I disagree Andy. Unfortunately, as non-elected individuals, they represent only themselves. If they want to make actual changes and to represent people they need to get elected to public office. If they don’t we can assume they don’t represent the majority. If they do they have a mandate.

I would go so far as saying what they are doing is undemocratic as it obstructs the democratic process of governance.

Andy why are you arguing with yourself?

Whoopsy daisy (blushes), what a silly thing to do. My apologies for any confusion caused.

Labour were voted in on a manifesto they have long since abandoned what mandate have they

I have just reviewed said manifesto. In no part of it do they allude to water or household charges (or any tax issues in detail at all), while Fine Gael did propose them in theirs. As such, labour are operating within their remit and Fine Gael are carrying out the will of the people, based on their manifesto and subsequent votes.

Why do labour go and vote in all the Fine Gael proposals so

So My comment was removed ! No worries here it is verbatim
Ha ha … Andy and you are so hillarious .Have you not been watching the news? Oh wait It is never on it …
People are suffering hunger and fuel poverty . This is only the beginning ! :) Enjoy .

@ Susie – your comment is still there, below a previous comment. Who exactly is hungry that cannot feed themselves sufficiently for €200 a week?

@ Sean – Labour vote on proposals as that is their job as members of the oireachtas, to vote on legislation. They vote in favour very often as they are coalition partners and they don’t have to oppose things they didn’t mention in their manifesto.

Andy,
You might recall the pre election slogan ‘Frankfurt’s way or Labour’s way ? Well the reason that the Home taxes, water taxes etc are being loaded onto the backs of the Irish people now is that it turns out that Labour’s way was actually identical to Frankfurt’s way all along.
Labour have colluded with FG and the ECB to enforce the payment of illegitimate banking debt by the Irish citizens. Labour’s mandate lies in tatters.

What is the point of this protest? The charges referred to are almost universal not matter how odious we find them. PWC report on implementation, not desirability. They did what they were asked to do.

Andy What is YOUR point ? Seriously !
Do you know anything ? The protestors are protesting against thepeople who ARE their customers !! Jesus wept !

Andy Who has 200 e a week to feed themselves ? Oh except the corrupt and the powerful nobodies like bertie ahearne et al
Listen you are beginning to annoy me with your narrow minded
snide remarks.

Think you will find that Andy is right. FG have not really drifted from the election manifesto!! Labour have yes but that is called compromise…
D

Declan Cotter
Who was it said not another cent ? Oh right Leo Veradkar …. FG . Yes They too lied .

It’s not just the majority that have rights Andy. That’s a pure democracy. Minorities have rights and viewpoints they are free to express in this country which, as you are obviously not aware, is a republic. And if all our ancestors shared your opinion, we would not yet have one.

Governments work on the weekends too.

I think you mean governments work at the weekend too, unless you mean they will be shortening the weekend somehow.

With the outrageous level of pay they should be working 24/7….

if you heard the excuses i’ve heard coming from those badly effected as to why they’re not protesting it would sicken ya!! they will use any excuse to poke holes in any of the protests, so much so they don’t go to any and we are where we are today for lack of true support on the ground from those hundreds of thousands, probably closer to millions that are effected everyday of the week.

God , Shane your spelling is a little beyond thick fingers.

You know what!! Maybe people think we are on the right path!! FG and FF account for nearly 60% of the electorate per latest red sea poll.. They have very similar policies on how Ireland should get out of the mess its in…
So maybe just maybe people dont agree with pathetic little protests by people like the one above

The government must be trembling that they’ve occupied such a strategic state building.

Oh wait.

Fantastic News . David Back to your study boy and learn that people can not be stomped on for too long and not be expected to BITE back :)

@David Higgins- You’re right, why would they tremble? Having shown their true colours in recent months, and lost the support of their people, I am sure they have bigger things to worry about. They’re a dead government walking. You’ll be remembered for your unwavering support for them though. Who can forget the man that justified attacking the poor and disabled? FG are lucky to have you.

PwC emply about 1,800 people in Ireland and then a further 200 in building services plus many others in 3rd party irish companies, many who have mortgages and bills to pay like everyone else including these protesters. These include lower paid administrative staff, cleaners, graduates and not just senior management. This protest was pointless. They are protesting that the company (pwc) which is a consulting company, consulted. Protest Government buildings by all means but this is ridiculous and futile

Michael Meaney
If the protest is so pointless Why are we discussing it . It is only the beginning !
However The protest was not aimed at the ordinary workers who are struggling like the rest of us . It is aimed at the power brokers who look after the machinations of the banks …..

Give up on Mr Higgins folks, he rarely (if ever) replies to rebuttals.

30 people!!! I expect they was more people calling them names than actually protesting. A laughing stock!!

30 inside PWC fully supported by the 700,000 outside who refused to pay the household charge last year.

Amen to that.
It’s ok for the the government to forcibly enter your home, even though you have committed no crime. to ascertain their latest cash grab bullsh1t tax they can screw you for. But whoa there folks, don’t you dare try to make a peaceful point. Tut tut Paddy, you went mad and so did the banks and you must pay up now. There’s a good, simple Paddy. Can’t wait for the revenue thugs to get a taste of their own medicine. Oh dear have I offended you? Too bad…

I don’t apply that to everyone, but the smart people reading this know the morons im on about.

From the thumbs score looks almost even…

Wow …
Look who is back and as himself !
I missed you , NOT .

Surprised you can even spell clown…

As myself? Who else was I? :)

fear not Tom ,even they know you Pee in a WC

The point of protesting at PWC is more to highlight the link between those who gave advise to our government who acted on it and have assisted in placing us in the position we find ourselves today. Its not about getting a tax change, that will never happen through PWC, and the protestors know that. PWC wont give two hoots about what went on on the ground floor or the building outside. They wont be effected in any way at all. The drones will eat at their desks and the management will order in and put it off as an expense, whilst clocking up another percentage or two as a bonus. Those who think otherwise or throw a distainful nose at the protestors are missing the point. Its not just about PWC, but the whole section of power holders that have forced searing cuts on the ordinary people from their incompetence, greed and stupidity whilst remaining, in the main, scot-free of any consequences. PWC are just a cog, a small but influencial one, in a bigger machine that is steamrollering over the lower and middle paid in this country. PWC or the employees arent particularly important in all this, they will trundle on regardless once the campaign has had their day and it will be a conversational piece around the Ballygowan water cooler in between pushing buttons and shifting through paper, nothing more. But by bringing the inequalities and absurb nature of who is paying for the excesses of these executives and ‘advisors’ into public focus, it may just wake more people up as to what this country truly needs to do, and how to go about it. The fact that so many are blind to not only what the campaigners are doing but who exactly the protestors are is symptematic of the ‘Im all right Jack’ attitude that prevades our society. The ‘somebody somewhere must do something about anything…but just dont involve me or disturb me as its done’ mentality is whats keeping us on our knees. Fair play to the protestors, noisy but dignified, point made and without a drink either!

@ Mark – that’s clear, but it’s redundant. PWC are a consulting firm; they consult whoever wishes to hire them. They have absolutely no moral obligation to look after the interests of taxpayers, unlike the government. Protesting in the PWC offices is effectively the equivalent of protesting the printshop who won the tender to print the Household Tax assessment forms.

I’m all for effective protesting, but this crowd are so embarrassingly inept they seem like a propaganda device for the current government.

I’ve asked them, both here and directly, to clearly state their policy on providing financial aid to their supporters in the case where a supporter, following their advice to refuse to pay a tax ( paying tax is a legal obligation ) ends up on the receiving end of a set of criminal charges. This is a valid question and a very important one for potential supporters. They’ve never provided a clear and definite answer, presumably because they don’t know.

Let someone who actually knows what they’re doing run the protests, and stop letting embarrassing idiots speak on behalf of the protest movement. Do that and you might get more than 30 protesters to turn up.

But the major-generals are enjoying their ego-expansions far too much to let that happen…

Nikolas,

Let me address your concerns on the CAHWT’s legal approach. Firstly it must be noted that the authorities are very keen to avoid any court cases in regard to non payment of the Property ( Home) tax. The evidence for this is compelling. Around 700,000 people did not pay the Household charge last year and not a single one was prosecuted. The County Councils had the legal authority to take people to court over non payment of the charge. There they faced maximum fines of €2500 and penalties of €100 per day if they failed to register with the council. None of this occurred and the threats and bluster from the authorities evaporated because the mass boycott made it politically unacceptable. The government eventually conceded defeat when they abandoned the courts cases and passed the parcel to the Revenue.
This year the Revenue have been given the power to deduct the Property tax at source without the need to engage the courts. One of the key reasons for this is again to avoid the political dynamite of highly charged court cases. It’s a pity really from our point of view that the government have cleverly enough backed away from the legal route as the first hard pressed pensioner jailed for non payment would see national uproar and possibly the fall of the government as Labour defected.

In the event that legal cases do occur, the Campaign has a team of solicitors from around the country who will represent people taken to court over non payment on a pro bono basis. So no need for direct financial aid. ( If you’re from a legal background yourself, we would gladly add you to our panel of names)
It will be up to each individual of course to decide how far they want to take their protest. Some may hold out to the bitter end and relish their day in court while others will pay the tax on foot of the summons and refuse to pay again the following year. This will futher drain the resources of the Revenue in chasing them down again. All types of civil disobedience are valuable because the Revenue and the judicial system, like all of the agencies of the state, depend on the compliance of the vast majority of the citizens. The court system will grind to a halt if it attempts to process a fraction of the 700,000 plus who will boycott the Property tax this year. We are governed by consent in a democracy. The people need to remember this now and demonstrate the principle to FG & Labour in 2013.

Showing up drunk what are you talking about ???

Are using google translate or something?

Never seen a group of people on their way to one of these ‘protest marches’ without at least one of them carrying a 6 pack of Dutch gold

Andrew
You sad little man . Do you want to withdraw that comment ?
So it is ok for Gilmore to have a €70,000 wine cellar ?

@Andrew

You comments are utter rubbish!

“Never seen a group of people on their way to one of these ‘protest marches’ without at least one of them carrying a 6 pack of Dutch gold”
Oh I see. Because we’re angry about how this company was part of the collapse of our economy, we’re a bunch of drunkards. Clearly, you’re happy about the fact that bankers – operating mostly without licenses, according to recent court findings I might add – are now in charge. They dictate whether your children can eat, they dictate whether your elderly parents and grandparents have heat, they dictate whether you have a roof over your head.

Let me know when they put you in charge, so I know when to start running.

Andrew i’m newish to this site and i see people throwing out the term “troll” alot,honestly i didn’t know what it meant till i looked it up.Thank you for the practical examples on this thread and a couple of pervious ones.

Well i saw first hand one of these little shows in Galway when labour meeting was on… And andrew is right.. There was people protesting drinking.. That is a fact.. I saw it with my own eyes…

That’s not true, Declan. I was there in Galway too. The only thugs there were the Gardaí and private security who roughed us up. None of the protesters were drinking. That’s a smear to try to discredit what was a principled action.

There was people drinking in the Dail bar then they went out and voted to put 60 billion euro worth of debt on the backs of my children,but anyway whats your point Declan?

@Cotter blatant lies,but that wouldn’t matter to you people !!

Jenny — Sorry, I red thmbed you there. There’s a bar in Galway called the Dáil Bar; I thought you meant that! :)

smug very smug Andrew, who says you wont be out of a job soon, look around, noone is safe, will you be looking for a hand out then, im sure you will, anyway all those people on the dole through no fault of there own have well paid for their dole through their PRSI so shut the hell up…….

@Andrew. Been waiting on feedback from PWC on an interview I did through them in 2006. Productive my arse. Ive seen the staff come out of that place looking more pissed than anyone ive seen on a protest.

i’m not sure you got the memo explaining the nature of protest.

Ha ha … Andy and you are so hillarious .Have you not been watching the news? Oh wait It is never on it …
People are suffering hunger and fuel poverty . This is only the beginning ! :) Enjoy .

Of course they have a right to protest – but on public, not private, property. KPMG have nothing to do with government tax policy. They may as-well have occupied your home, for all the good it would do.

I reiterate – I have no problem with the peaceful protesting of what they consider unfair charges, but obstructive protesting is tantamount to fascism.

Oh I see.. so, protest but don’t protest in such a way as to get noticed. Right. I’ll just stand in the corner here with my face to the wall and complain, shall I? That’ll teach them!

What a plonker.

@Andy

When people become angry, desperate and frustrated all the little ‘rules of engagement’ such as getting a permit to protest and protesting on only public property not private in a dignified moment goes out the window. You obviously are not feeling the pain as most people judging by your holier than thou comments on how protestors behave. I’m surprised we’re not seeing the Greekification of Ireland happening as opposed to a few low supported protests.
Wait until the real protests begin when the well runs completely dry.

“I reiterate – I have no problem with the peaceful protesting of what they consider unfair charges, but obstructive protesting is tantamount to fascism.”

Here, let me lend you my dictionary.
fas·cism
1) An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
2) (in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

Help me understand where obstructive protesting fits into that? I could list plenty of ways the government is behaving in that fashion though…

@ Michael – though you may feel the rules go out the window, I assure you the Laws do not. Where would you get the money to plug our €13 billion deficit if not through taxation and cuts?

@ John – 2) (in general use) Extreme right-wing, – authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice. Where authoritarian is pertaining to a governmental or political system, principle, or practice in which individual freedom is held as completely subordinate to the power or authority of the state, centered either in one person or a small group that is not constitutionally accountable to the people.

As you can see their actions hold the freedoms of the KPMG staff subordinate to their policies of protest. Further, they are not constitutionally accountable to the people. That is how you could view their actions as fascist.

Causing disruption makes you tantamount to a fascist?

@ Andy “I reiterate – I have no problem with the peaceful protesting of what they consider unfair charges, but obstructive protesting is tantamount to fascism.”

I suppose you would consider yourself a “model citizen”? If the cap fits?

- A fascist politician has a particular aim. They want to create a society in which the population are crafted in his/her image of a model citizen. So, if you are a citizen who is unable to make yourself fit into that model then the government will quietly but decisively get rid of you.

@ duzB – In that I pay my taxes and keep on the right side of the law, then yes, I am a model citizen. It is our civic duty to both vote and except the will (to a certain extent) of the majority. I voted SF in fact but respect the mandate a government has to govern.

If you don’t pay your taxes or keep the peace as best you can, fine. But don’t expect my sympathy when you are exposed. If you think your taxes are high, work a little harder to recover the lost revenue. Protesting is the lazy thing to do in regard to a €100 water charge.

Hey Andy
Have a look at this . Well worth the watch, some very highly respected and educated people here .
Go on , I dare you to educate yourself . Hedge funds , money laundering for the rich !

Andy – “If you think your taxes are high, work a little harder to recover the lost revenue.” – tell that to unemployed people who can’t find a job… ultimately, there will be unemployed and underprivileged people in this country in future years, seeing the way the government goes about things with its anti-growth policies… you have no idea how hard it is for some people to live on the little money they have

Vit… Please tell me and the Goverment how to grow the economy… how to create jobs… i am genuinely interested.. ???

So to sum Andy & Declan

Protesting is undemocratic & FG have kept to there election promises

Wake up

Andy sorry did u just say they have nothing to do with Govt policy!! Stopped reading after that, it’s obvious you have no clue what is going on.

Declan – it would be enough to stop suffocating the economy by paying off someone else’s debt… this government seems to be unable to think outside the box… how about a default and own currency and monetary policy? These are also options. Or at least use them as a motivational tool for the EU and IMF to write off our sovereign debt.

@Andy. You say protesting is a lazy thing to do!. If it was then there would be a lot more protests would’nt there. If it was so easy there would be a lot more protests like this going back to 2008. Its easy to be a sheep like you, would you find it easy to protest?

Nobody likes violence Gerard, but you’re right.

Er, have ye looked around? The only ones paying are those that never even wanted the trough, let alone fed at it. The ones getting away with it are the elite, the bankers, the politicians – who fed at the trough all along.