Merkel has some brass neck…..

So the alternative scenario could have been:

They give our govt nothing.
We give the banks nothing.
The banks default on their debt.
The banks immediately go into liquidation.
We then have no domestic banks of any size and one UK retail/commercial bank (UB).

Discuss.

Or a brass neck?

Exactly. What about the politicians who led them into the mess they are in and who lied to the world about the true extent of Greek public debt.? Merkel is an easy hate figure for the tabloid readers in Greece and indeed the tabloid readers in Ireland it seems. However the true culprits are closer to home.

you mean cut off any further funding from Germany to the bail out funds?

Um, WE asked for a bail-out…

Possibly you may not be correct in that Nikolas. Mind if Noonan would release the letter from the ECB which allegedly forced BL into ‘requesting’ a bailout by threatening to cut off all funding then we would know for sure.

@ Kerry – A country who wants or needs a bail-out must make an official request for a bail-out, even after an assessment has been done to quantify the proposed bail-out. We saw this a few months with Spain. FF/Greens had to have made an official request, that’s the protocol. It’s a bit like going to a dentist; even if a tooth needs to be pulled, the dentist can’t pull it unless she/he asks you first, and if you say no, that means no. Without a request, I don’t think the agreement could be legal, and the ECB and IMF are not so stupid as to leave themselves open to such a legal minefield. Don’t judge other governments and politicians by the standards or our government and politicians.

That will be answered when we get sight of the letter sent by the ECB Nikolas until then we do not know if BL and the government requested a bailout under their own understanding of it being required or because they were under duress to request it from the ECB.

@ Kerry, I think you misunderstand me, that is fact and is standard protocol for any country seeking a bailout, not just Ireland. The protocols are freely available at

http://www.exb.int/pub/pub/paym/html/index.en.html

But be warned, it’s a bit of a slog to read through.

Apologies, the “exb” in the address should be “ecb”, it being the ECB’s website and everything, :-)

Should we also thank her for the money she’s “pumped into our economy?”, because as far as I can see we never received a bailout:

They gave our govt €67bn
Our govt gave 64bn to our banks
Our banks gave €62bn back to unguaranteed bondholders

So from what I can see, the money was effectively laundered through Ireland. We were not bailed out.

The Empress of the Greater German Co-Austerity Sphere visits under conditions of martial law and you think the vassals should be thankful?

Nobody “pumped” money into the Greek economy or any other in Europe. Greek private debt, as here, was converted into sovereign debt by EU loans to Government to pay off the holders of that private debt. Not a cent went to maintaining services or public pay in Greece.

And most of that private debt was held by German banks, along with predatory hedge and equity banks like the vicious Goldman Sachs. So the Greek people are being beggared by Merkel, the Troika and the IMF to pay off bankers.

Wake up. Read the facts.

Man, you are far from reality if you think we should be thanking Merkel!

So we’d be grand without her country’s money??

We would be €62bn better off David. If we had not been forced to take the bank debt on as sovereign debt who knows maybe we would still be in the markets. Once the bank debt was turned into sovereign debt we were shut out of the markets if that hadn’t happened we wouldn’t have needed any money from anyone.

See above. Clearly we would, because we did not get the money. The figures above are facts.

*You’re

They may be more inclined to welcome her if she was bringing the billions which Germany stole when the Nazis made the Bank of Greece “loan” them money during WWII or the reparations for WWII, which again have never been repaid by Germany, unlike Italy which did.

you could use that microphone for a much better use Dave…

Have to admit David, you’re good, you always manage to reinforce my reluctance to vote for Fine Gael, I’m sure you also have the same positive effect on lots of Journal readers, sure you’re not a sleeper agent for Fianna Fail?

God David you could report David Stephen for calling you a traitor in a public domain. I know a good solicitor.

If there had been no bank bail-out at all we would have had no banks and the econcomy (and possibly civil society) would have catastrophically collapsed.

There is of couse the valid argument that the debts of Anglo & INBS should not have been put on the sovereign but to say that the rescue of all the Irish banks is a travesty which could easily have been avoided is not correct.
I’m not saying that it couldn’t have been avoided – that’s a complex issue with many ‘what ifs’ to consider. But its a lot less straightforward than simply concluding that they should all have been allowed to fail and our econcomy would be all the better for it now..

Too many good points in comments here get spoiled in my view by being exaggerated and expressed in a polarised manner.

True, Gagsy.

Think I’m right in saying that the Greek banking crisis was exacerbated by a comparatively larger budget deficit than Ireland, more costly and inefficient public service. As with us, it’s not all down to the troika.

David I see you are just another fg member. Clueless & out of touch. You cannot judge the Greeks by sitting in a chair in Ireland. You cannot do the same to the Irish by surrounding yourself with like minded fgers. The EU politicians including our own are collectively responsible for the EU crisis. Thats the view of the rest of the world. If at end of all this the house of cards come tumbling down its the politicians that will be remember for this crisis. Your opinion is part of a very closed minded system. If fg want to fix this problem an open mind is a must.

@ Gagsy – You’re right of course, but sadly stating it won’t make much difference. Most of the “political commenters” here don’t give a damn about objective and verifiable facts, they’ve fallen into the trap of confusing what is real with what they believe or assume is real. Agendas should be built on facts, “facts” can’t be built in agendas. Ultimately, people post outraged comments here purely because they enjoy being outraged.

But why wouldn’t Germany help us? As most of the comments here show, we’re a welcoming, respectful, empathetic people who will always be gracious in requesting and accepting assistance.

Where are you from Niko ??

@ JD – I grew up mostly around Whitehall in Dublin. Emigrated after school, went to England, came back to Dublin with a wife in tow and I’m still here now. Where are you from, Tenessee?