That’s true, Paul W. We are indeed passionate & I like that. Beats not caring. Many thanks for the reply. I am confident of the future for our country – Ireland. I sense what is going on now is part of the process to reunification. I also believe a day has to come when we put the past in the past, never forget it & to move on. That should be reflected in our politics. That’s what I meant when I said I make my political decisions for the here & now & not what happened in the past. But, it is good to be passionate. Sláinte.

The Provisional Command shafted them.
Principled men sacrificed to the recruitment drive.

Ten men dead is also an excellent book on the events both in and out of the HBlocks

Garret Fitz got a massive loan written off, and the stress of leaving his good friend Peter Sutherland in charge of AIB after the ICI fiasco and 400mn tax payers money down the drain, no one lost their job of course and then there is Haughey lived like the Sun King, robbed his dying best friend etc etc etc etc etc – they had it tough in their own ways I suppose. Them and thousands of others that are prominent in FG/FF or donors of said party who have been bleeding this country dry for 90 years.

what was he arrested for ?

Wikipedia – 14 years for possession of firearms.

He was in prison for taking part in the bombing of a furniture factory in belfast. He was in a getaway car, was stopped and charged with possession of the illegal firearms in the car. He got either 14 or 16 years for that i think?

His hunger strike aim was to get special treatment for IRA members in prison.

cheers for that, I’m aware of certain aspects of his prison life story but not his early years.

As Yates said about a similar group of men who decided that enough was enough, that they would no longer cower in the corner of their own homes.

“We know their dream; enough
To know they dreamed and are dead;…
Now and in time to be,
Wherever green is worn,
Are changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.”

There are still many here that knock 1916, the Black and Tan war. We’ll see no shortage of them in the next few years. They’ll be knocking the hunger strikers for a 100 years.

Although the strikers did what they believed best for freedom they were shamelessy used by the brass in SFPIRA. Thatcher offered concessions which the Prison SF Cumann reps accepted conditionally but outside they wanted to capitalize on deaths so SF could maximize vote in by-election due to deaths.That to me was a treasonous act of Irish on Irish regardless of politics or religion.

Spot on, RP McMurphy. U hit the nail on the head & your last sentence is correct. They were used/manipulated for political purposes. Their lives were irrelevant.

There will be many in this Govt., same as in FF administrations that are willing to give up the lives of ordinary people left rotting in chaotic hospitals or broken by broke banks. The North was a cesspit where to be Irish meant you were nothing to the state, discrimination was rife and systemic. They did it up there for God, Queen and Ulster, what logic was behind FG and FF’s crapping down on the Irish in the 26.

Kieran Doherty was an elected TD for Cavan-Monaghan. If only our goverment had half of the courage these brave men had.

Fiachra,Well observed…i have been looking at some of the comments.Some people are so uneducated about what they are actually writing about its quiet unbelievable.A priest went to Bobby Sands as he lay on his death bed,Asked Bobby to quit the strike to which he replied “Greater love then this no man has,than that he lay down his life for his friends”.Thats a line from the bible for those uneducated clowns that dont have a clue weather they are blueshirts or FF followers.These are the same people who probably jumped on the Fine Gael bandwagon when FF were going down the hole.There is a guy called Declan who clearly has his big head stuck up his arsehole.How couldnt you respect a man who had that much steel about him as to die for what he believed in and stand up to a bully like thatcher???It is common knowledge that the woman had no time for Irish folk and branded up as all the same-pissheads.Some people are beyond me,Happy New Year to 1 and all.

It’s “whether” & not weather. Weather refers to climate. If you wish to go the insulting route & call people uneducated, the least u can do is learn to spell. You are entitled to air your opinion, I have mine & being insulting really doesn’t contribute much to the discussion at hand. If you cared to read my comments fully, you will see that I do have some inkling of care for these men who were used for political purposes & their lives meant nothing to those who ran SF. The same goes for trying to label people blueshirts. I live in the 21st century & I don’t base my political decisions on what happened in the last century. “The best means of defence is attack” is a tactic I see through.

It’s apparent that one feels that one has lost the argument when the first thing the poster refers to is a spelling error.

Oh dear. We’re in disagreement again Declan. We’ll forget about that cup of tea for now…

Ha !! Gwan ! I’ve the kettle on. Bring the bikkies.

She had the balls to meet them head on. Played them at their own game & they didn’t like it. How many victims of the IRA were given a chance ? Catholic & Protestant. All the while the political apologist in Sinn Féin went into overdrive. Odious – the whole thing & their lives were sacrificed for propaganda.

dec, u say she had the balls, i say she was a dog. No,, what am i saying,, thats a terrible insult to dogs.

Her balls had nothing to do with it Declan. It was her lack of compassion and empathy. For a out and out nationalist she couldn’t bear to see it in its Irish manifestation. Witch!!!

I hear ya, Joe !! She did secretly offer them concessions but not the political status they ( or those behind the scenes who used those guys to manipulate the situation ) wanted. They were prisoners. Plain & simple. I remember that period & it was awful. I was so goddamn angry about it then as I am after reading this thread & some comments. Their lives were used for political ends. I have no sympathy for them or their criminal deeds dressed us as “republican activity”. Just the waste of lives. The romantic view of them is sickening. They made those choices ( or were made for them ). “True sons of Ireland”, my arse. Anyway – happy new year.

I imagine to her they were criminals & why should she give any criminal special status. Irish, British, Chinese wasn’t the point with her, I guess. Just criminals. It’s the waste of lives that angers me. They made those choice or those choices were made for them & Sinn Féin/IRA used it to maximum effect for their own aims. Playing on our Nationalism was a trump card they exploited, Réada.

Criminal status for republican prisoners was a political tactic to sway popular opinion in favour of the British forces.
Just like today Syria’s President Assad is criminalizing the actions of the rebels in his country, trying to undermine their validity cause.

Sh!t. I was replying to a sicko comment which has been removed.

Hate da’ !!

“True sons of Ireland”, my arse ! He was a convicted criminal. It was shameful how Sinn Féin/IRA used him & played with his life for their own “political” ends. Let’s stop this rubbish about him & his kind being “true sons of Ireland”. His death was sad but avoidable.

Declan what was he convicted of? All I can find is convictions for weapons possession but I think he might also have had some other minor offences as well. Of course criminal or not, anyone who starves themselves to death can not exactly be called a coward or otherwise. That is what shook Thatcher and the Brits to the core, the fact htat these “criminals” were willing to die for their beliefs. Not too many criminals do that do they now?

Bobby Sands was no criminal, he broke the laws of a state which where inherently discriminatory towards Catholics and Nationalists. It was, in my opinion basic social contract theory. When the state no longer can protect its people or actively discriminate against them those people have every right to rebel against it by any means necessary. Nobody in their right mind can say every action carried out by the IRA was just, in fact as a republican I would condemn certain actions as pure and simple murder. But on the whole the IRA was justified in their campaign against British rule and Bobby Sands fight was not only about rights for Republican prisoners it was also about legitimizing the struggle.

Declan, you’re right his death was a avoidable, all that was required was for the British government to capitulate.
The men who died were not criminals nor terrorists, but freedom fighters trying to defend their homes and families.

Why should a Govt, any Govt, give in to a terrorist organisation, Paddy ? Or to any criminal for that matter ? As I stated, these men were manipulated for political purposes & the trump card SF/IRA played was to all our inherent nationalism.

Declan: You must have misread my last sentence, as they were neither criminals nor terrorists. The criminalisation of republicans was a political tactic to shore up support against them. And you fell for that cheap parlor trick.

Firstly there was no electoral gain for Sinn Féin in the real sense because Sinn Féin still operated full abstention from both parliaments at that stage. Secondly is it really plausible to assume that without the Sinn Féin propaganda that people wouldn’t rally behind the volunteers who where on hunger strike. The H-Block campaign was made up of many groups not just Sinn Fein and the IRSP. If I am not mistaken I think that some hard-line FFers like Blaney was involved with the H-Block campaign and even certain socialist groups, which are eternally hostile to Republicanism supported the demands. Of course the Republican movement would honour the strikers when they died. The strike was not an opportunity for Sinn Féin propaganda but was rather a brutal example of the reality of British rule in Ireland.

eh..just a point..they were CONVICTED of terrorist offences..in some of which INNOCENT Irish lives were lost along with public servants who were also Irish born..hence uf convicted then that makes one a CONVICT

Seems such a small list of things to die for now. No uniforms… I thought it was more profound at the time.

The Emnglish papers would be a lot more forthcoming and straight than a lot of the Irish papers. Look at the Sunday Independent and the Herald for example.

I completely agree. I am 34 years old. I have constantly criticized my parents generation for ignoring the civil rights campaign in the north. Just a few miles up the road from Dublin Catholics were getting kicked around while “Catholics” here were happy to keep the heads down. Had we been more involved the war may not have gone the way it did

I agree whole heartily Carlin. The way the 26 counties wiped their hands of their fellow Irish in the 6 counties is disgusting, and the reason for this is something I’ve given a great deal of thought to.

I have decided it’s guilt. Guilt because they watched their fathers that had fought in War of Independence and it’s horrific aftermath the Civil War. They watched them suffer with dementia from the guilt and horror.

So they invented this “good IRA” and “bad IRA”. In reality wherever there is injustice and a group of people are treated like less than 2nd class citizens, it will be easy to recruit people to a cause.

Dont use facebook anymore.

Declan, did you live in the north in the 50s or 60s?
If you didn’t, and it seems to me that you learned all you know from bigoted media reports, please stop commenting on something you obviously know nothing about.

In fairness Ciaro he has a right to comment as have I even though I never lived in 6 counties. It is interesting though Declan that your name doesn’t pop up on threads that relating to British state collussion in murder on this island. Correct me if I’m wrong Declan.

Ciaro, what does living in the North have anything to do with it? I didn’t live in the North during this time, in fact I wan’t even born so does that exclude me from commentating on this period? Does the fact that I grew up in the South mean that I have no right to comment on the North or any other part of the world? I might disagree with with Declan and many other commentators but I don’t hold their age, place of birth or residence against them. People don’t get their whole view of the world from the media and do actually read books, journals and indulge in debates such as this so as to form their opinions of the world. To unilaterally tell someone to stop commenting on a subject because they “obviously no nothing about” it goes against all freedom of expression. If we all took that attitude then you might as well shut down the journal.

Oh I nearly forgot. I do find it hilariously ironic that you berate Declan for commenting on something that he allegedly knows nothing about and yet you had to ask him the questions-
Did you live in the north.
Did you live their during the 50′s or 60′s
and you them presume that he gets all his info form bigoted media outlets without any evidence to back up that presumption ……
so you yourself are guilty of commenting on someone/something that you clearly know nothing about! PRICELESS!

@Reada, where is the “Six Counties”?

Rocky its in the North East of Ireland as you already know but just say that looking for an arguement- grow up. No matter what political beliefs you have The 6 counties in the NE of Ireland are still in Ireland!

Ahhh, oh right, thanks for clearing that up Fiachra, I wasn’t sure where exactly they were. I presume the “six counties” you refer to are in the Irish province of Ulster but are a seperate country to the Republic of Ireland being part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland…

Thanks Fiacra for answering Rocky. It’s just that I can’t get my head around the most northerly tip of my country being referred to as the South. I’ve a low tolerance for lies.

Yes Rocky those exact counties which also allow people to choose which nationality to adhere to- I am from Derry and have an Irish Passport. Irish, for me, relates to ireland as a whole and to most people means the whole 32 counties of Ireland (30 of which have majority of people who are Irish)

Fiachra, thanks for clearing that whole 6 county question up. I ( like Rocky, obviously) was totally ignorant of geography, history and current affairs and thought that when Reada referred to the 6 counties she was referring to the 6 counties of Munster! Here was me stupidly thinking that Britain was occupying Munster and that the union Jack was flying over Cork City hall. I must admit I was confused when I last crossed over the border at Kilbehenny and there was no checkpoints and not a Brit soldier or policeman to be seen. I (in my asinine ignorance of news, politics and the media) assumed that all was quiet as a result of the Good Friday Agreement.

What further confused me ( I know, I get very confused because I’m a bit feeble minded) was that the guy behind the bar I visited was going on about the peoples Republic of Cork breaking away form the Dublin Government but here was me thinking they wanted to join the Irish Republic. Now that you have put me straight I ( and Rocky) now know where the 6 counties are and this will save me some embarrassment as I am liable to make a show of myself by making stupid comments and end up looking like a smarmy gobshite. Personally I thought that I was cool and intelligent and blinding in my intellectual discourse. Unfortunately everyone else thought that quite the opposite.

Thanks Réada & Brian. We all are entitled to post our comments however good, bad or indifferent they are. In a way, the sacrifices of our ancestors have ensured that we can participate in debate. To them I am eternally grateful & one way I thank their efforts over the centuries is to cast my vote in every election our State holds. It’s because of their sacrifices that I am able to vote & determine how our country is run. Always have since I was 18 & I am now 49. Cairo – I am well aware of what happened up North. I disagree with what you have said, but I do acknowledge your right to say so. John Hume, Mary McAleese, Dana to mention a few didn’t go down the IRA route. I am very much an Irish Nationalist who believes in what my flag stands for. Green White & Orange. I dislike SF with a passion. They are obnoxious & I haven’t the energy to write any more except to say that they used those unfortunate men for their own political aims. Réada – I do dislike very much what England did in our country over time. They initially colonised Ireland to stop Catholic Spain from attacking England from our shores. They started it & it is up to them to put an end to it. I believe that end is in progress as we type. In time, Ireland will be reunited & I want that to happen peacefully & with consent. Yes I do have issues with British collusion with injustices. U also have to ask why were those injustices carried out. In part because of the murderous acts of the IRA. Finally Cairo – people make their comments for a reason & that reason is based on their own belief, understanding & interpretation of what occurred in N Ireland. The one thing about the North is that both elements of the Green & Orange can get all huffy if people don’t agree with them. Having said that, thank u for your comment. I disagree with it but I defend your right to say it. Happy New Year.

Reada, I presume you are referring to Donegal which is in the ROI, but is actually geographically North. No such place as “The South”. Southern Ireland, if that’s what you are referring to ceased as an entity in 1922.
Fiachra, I am pretty sure, Derry/Londonderry is in Northern Ireland. Furthermore, when most refer to Ireland, they generally mean, ROI. ie, The President Of Ireland, the Irish Football team etc….On another point, NI is bankrolled by the UK treasury, are you not better of as you are?

Declan I appreciate your answer but you cannot deny that the British governments policy towards Ireland is where all this stems from. To only point out “the murderous acts of the IRA” is a convenient omission of facts.

I agree with u, Réada. Imagine ! We agree !! Whoo-Hoo !! I mention the acts by the IRA as they were a part of the issue/problem or as they say in N Ireland – “the situation”. The British were not entirely blameless & that goes for the IRA & their Loyalist counterparts.

Rocky. You are just being silly now. But I like being silly too. When I’m talking to customers in Britain and they ask me for my address, they usually like to ask is that in the South. My silly answer is that it’s in the East. We can all be silly. Luckily silliness knows no boarders ;)

@Reada, Just pointing it out a simple fact thats al backed by history and geography. For example in the American Civil war, would you consider Virginia to be in the North, South, Centre, Inbetween, East. It was classed as South but clearly it is East…Donegal is North yet South…..tomato/tomato…..silly really!

whats wit the name change pa?

Dont use facebook anymore

Such a subjective term look at the poem “The Right Word” by Imtiaz Dharker.

Why not? Didn’t he offer the 1st time? Truth is there were ten(??) other lives on the line and if discussions were a possibility he would have gladly taken them, I suspect even when he offered he knew it wasn’t going to happen.

Give us a clue RDX. Don’t assume we’re all psychic.