TheJournal.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more »
Dublin: 17 °C Wednesday 19 June, 2013

Bishops say expert group ignores risks of legislating for limited abortion

The group said that guidelines “may offer a way forward”, adding that abortion is “gravely immoral in all circumstances” and legislating for the X Case could “open the floodgates for abortion”.

Pro Life protestors outside Leinster House, Dublin, at A Vigil For Life last night.
Pro Life protestors outside Leinster House, Dublin, at A Vigil For Life last night.
Image: Julien Behal/PA Wire/Press Association Images

IRISH CATHOLIC BISHOPS have responded to the report of the Expert Group on the Judgement in the A, B and C v Ireland case, indicating their preference for guidelines over legislation.

In a statement issued this afternoon, the Irish Catholic Bishop’s Conference said abortion is “gravely immoral in all circumstances, no matter how ‘limited’ access to abortion may be”.

The group said that “ethically-sound guidelines may offer a way forward” to provide greater clarity as to when life-saving treatment may be provided to a pregnant mother or her unborn child within the existing legislative framework.

They added that when a seriously-ill pregnant woman needs medical treatment which may put the life of her baby at risk, “such treatments are morally permissible provided every effort has been made to save the life of both the mother and her baby”.

The bishops criticised the expert group’s report, saying it “takes no account of the risks involved in trying to legislate for so-called limited abortion within the context of the X-case judgement”.

“The X-case judgement includes the threat of suicide as grounds for abortion,” the ICBC continued, claiming that “international experience shows that allowing abortion on the grounds of mental health effectively opens the floodgates for abortion.”

The Catholic Church in Ireland’s hierarchy rejected three of the four options put forward by the report as they were seen to involve abortion. “This can never be morally justified,” they said, adding that the European Court of Human Rights does not oblige the Irish Government to legislate for abortion.

The group also urged “calm” over the issue.

“A matter of this importance deserves sufficient time for a calm, rational and informed debate to take place before any decision about the options offered by the expert group report are taken.  All involved, especially public representatives, must consider the profound moral questions that arise in responding to this report.

It also highlighted other concerns the Church has about the report.

The judgement of the European Court of Human Rights permits options on this matter of fundamental moral, social and constitutional importance that are not offered by this Report. This includes the option of introducing a constitutional prohibition on abortion or another form of constitutional amendment to reverse the ‘X-case’ judgement.

They also say the report provided no ethical analysis of the options available, adding that the issue is first and foremost a moral one.

Yesterday, Health Minister James Reilly reiterated the government’s commitment to implementing the expert group’s recommendations. “This does not mean abortion on demand,” he insisted.

Read the statement in full:

A society that believes the right to life is the most fundamental of all rights cannot ignore the fact that abortion is first and foremost a moral issue.

As a society we have a particular responsibility to ensure this right is upheld on behalf of those who are defenceless, voiceless or vulnerable.  This includes our duty as a society to defend and promote the equal right to life of a pregnant mother and the innocent and defenceless child in her womb when the life of either of these persons is at risk.

By virtue of their common humanity the life of a mother and her unborn baby are both sacred.  They have an equal right to life.  The Catholic Church has never taught that the life of a child in the womb should be preferred to that of a mother.  Where a seriously ill pregnant woman needs medical treatment which may put the life of her baby at risk, such treatments are morally permissible provided every effort has been made to save the life of both the mother and her baby.

Abortion, understood as the direct and intentional destruction of an unborn baby, is gravely immoral in all circumstances.  This is different from medical treatments which do not directly and intentionally seek to end the life of the unborn baby.

Current law and medical guidelines in Ireland allow nurses and doctors in Irish hospitals to apply this vital distinction in practice. This has been an important factor in ensuring that Irish hospitals are among the safest and best in the world in terms of medical care for both a mother and her unborn baby during pregnancy.  As a country this is something we should cherish, promote and protect.

The Report of the Expert Group on the Judgement in A, B and C v Ireland has put forward options that could end the practice of making this vital ethical distinction in Irish hospitals. Of the four options presented by the Report, three involve abortion – the direct and intentional killing of an unborn child.  This can never be morally justified.  The judgement of the European Court of Human Rights does not oblige the Irish Government to legislate for abortion.

Other aspects of the Report also give rise to concerns.  These include, but are not limited to the fact that:
  • The judgement of the European Court of Human Rights permits options on this matter of fundamental moral, social and constitutional importance that are not offered by this Report.  This includes the option of introducing a constitutional prohibition on abortion or another form of constitutional amendment to reverse the ‘X-case’ judgement.
  • The Report provides no ethical analysis of the options available, even though this is first and foremost a moral issue and consideration of the ethical dimension was included in the Terms of Reference.
  • The Report takes no account of the risks involved in trying to legislate for so-called ‘limited abortion’ within the context of the ‘X-case’ judgement.  The ‘X-case’ judgement includes the threat of suicide as grounds for an abortion.  International experience shows that allowing abortion on the grounds of mental health effectively opens the floodgates for abortion.

The Report also identifies Guidelines as an option.  It notes that Guidelines can help to ensure consistency in the delivery of medical treatment.  If Guidelines can provide greater clarity as to when life-saving treatment may be provided to a pregnant mother or her unborn child within the existing legislative framework, and where the direct and intentional killing of either person continues to be excluded, then such ethically sound Guidelines may offer a way forward.

A matter of this importance deserves sufficient time for a calm, rational and informed debate to take place before any decision about the options offered by the Expert Group Report are taken.  All involved, especially public representatives, must consider the profound moral questions that arise in responding to this Report. Abortion is gravely immoral in all circumstances, no matter how ‘limited’ access to abortion may be.

Pics, video: Thousands gather for pro-life vigil outside the Dáil

  • Share on Facebook
  • Email this article
  •  

Read next:

Comments (53 Comments)

  • Catholic bishops should fu*k off back to Rome instead of interfering in affairs that are none of their business!

    Reply
  • The Catholic Church in Ireland are a fine organisation to talk about morals ! They have long forfeited the right to have any say in the lives of Irish people .
    With regards to the issues like abortion , same sex marriages, and conception, they should they should just stay out of issues that do not concern them !

    Reply
  • Everyone knows Bishops are experts on morality, law and medical science, they have fantastic judgement, we are lucky to have their wise input since we are too stupid to think for ourselves, look how well they handled that whole massive systematic child abuse thing a few years ago (extreme sarcasm)

    Reply
  • “Expert Group says Catholic Bishops ignore risks of legislating for reality.”

    Seriously, sitting around a table debating this doen’t qualify you to comment on this issue. If any Catholic Bishop has experience of working on a maternity ward and on the leading edge of these issues then they are qualified to make comment other than that… ssssh. The doctors and legislators have this (we think), thanks.

    Reply
  • I can’t believe in this day and age a christian church would want a child brought into the world knowing it was going to suffer dreadful pain and would need full medical care and attention. Is there a woman out that would see her child suffer severe pain day in day out for life ?

    Reply
    • Why were the priests not out marching when all this child abuse was going on in the industrial schools. They were very quite then. Shame on you.

      Reply
    • Not really the point Frank.

      ..the point is these ‘celibate fathers’ (????Oxymoron cubed)insist a foetus has EQUAL rights to an adult woman.

      Thats their case.
      They should be laughed back into their mammies’ laps, so adults can get on with reality without interference from atavistic sorcerers. Just because you call a spell a liturgical prayer doesn’t stop it being fantasised wishful thinking.

      Reply
  • Religion should be just left out of decisions made by government

    Reply
  • I would suggest to them that this society believes that the systematic, institutionalised abuse of children is first and foremost a moral issue.

    Men in frocks, who needs ‘em?

    Reply
  • Abortion is “gravely immoral in *all* circumstances”. I presume they include all the spontaneous abortions that occur naturally. We euphemise it by calling it a “miscarriage” and even say that it was “God’s will”. God murders more babies annually than the women who travel to the UK. Why should I follow “ethically-sound guidelines” from someone who worships a babykiller?

    Theyre nothing more than so called “moral leaders” trying to control them uppity women and putting them back in their place

    Reply
    • Don’t forget that everything is part of God’s masterplan.

      So God either invented abortion or okay’d the idea right? Human free will and all that will be the argument, but God has intervened before (Sodom, sending Jesus, setting fire to a bush etc.), so at the very least we should be asking why he hasn’t intervened here?

      Might be that God thinks abortion is fine, in fact one could argue that the pro-life movement seeks to subvert the gift of free will that God gave to us humans. They want to take back God’s gifts it seems.

      Reply
    • Don’t forget the occasions in the Bible when god murdered lots of babies eg. Passover.

      Reply
    • @Niall, well the biblical punishment for assaulting a woman and causing a miscarriage is less than the punishment for murder. Also if a woman becomes pregnant and the husband suspects infidelity, then the test for that involves preforming an abortion and if it works the woman is proven unfaithful.

      Reply
  • If the church wants to get involved in contributing to making political decisions, perhaps they should start paying taxes first. Then maybe they would have the right to get involved. But seeing as they dont pay anything as they are deemed a charity, they should keep their opinions to themselves. Who cares what a bunch of creepy old men think anyway?
    Why this is deemed news worthy is a mystery.

    Reply
  • This statement on things that “can never be morally justified” was brought to you by the people who felt “morally justified” in covering up child sex abuse.

    Reply
  • Why is the Catholic Church speaking about morals? Some one please enlighten me ?

    Reply
    • Because unfortunately they still have a lot of power, particularly among the older generations, its slipping away but its not that long ago that they had enormous power.
      Remember, we are the country who arrested Richard Branson for selling condoms in 1993.

      Reply
  • Honestly who cares what these people say? They are among the least qualified people to even comment on the issue.
    It’s sad to think in 2012 this ‘organisation’ even get publicity when they comment on such issues.

    Reply
  • I actually feel some pity for atheist pro-lifers.

    They try to make an argument and then along come the Catholics to screw it up for them by talking about something a bush might have said to Moses a few thousand years ago, what some idiot in a big hat took from that to write as a canon law and how we should base 21st century laws on this, despite what a panel of experts say, what doctors say, what the Human Rights Council says and what the people of the country voted for.

    Stick to the day jobs lads, covering up child abuse seems to be all you’re good at.

    Reply
  • Now, now, the bishops are entitled to their opinion but it doesn’t mean they are any less wrong. It’s really quite simple folks, if you think abortion is wrong, don’t have one, but don’t think you have the right to force your view on others who don’t share it.

    Reply
  • I love the way they’re calling for yet another referendum to try and overturn the X Case..
    YOU’VE HAD TWO! Both in the last 2 decades, and both were rejected.

    If there’s going to be another referendum it should be to see whether we want to keep the 8th amendment or drop it (after all, when it was passed in 1983, most women of childbearing age today were too young to vote).

    Reply
  • If nuns were trying to prevent overdue legislation and jeopardised the lives of men because of their entrenched dogmatic position on prostate cancer I wonder how long that would be accepted?

    Reply
  • Who asked these celibate old men for their opinion on women’s reproductive health?

    Reply
  • A bunch of pedophiles still trying to lay down the law where women are concerned. They are still trying to force women to go through unwanted pregnancies, is it because they are running out of kids to abuse???? Shouldn’t they be getting their own house in order before commenting on women’s issues, which, by the way, they have absolutely no business discussing in the first place!!!! Every woman should have the basic human right ‘to choose’……..

    Reply
  • They are of course correct when they say that the ECHR doesn’t oblige the Irish Government to legislate. However the X case ruling by the Supreme Court does oblige the Irish Government to legislate so our laws correspond to our constitution.

    Reply
  • 1/. The life of a mother is of equal value as that of an unborn child.
    2/. There are many circumstances when the life of a mother is more beneficial than that of a child
    3/. What a bunch of celebate’s know about child welfare/ child care is very questionable. The track record of their organisation has been shown to be way below par.

    Reply
  • Men who intend to be or who are fathers have an input to make.
    Celibate men who wear frocks should keep a very low profile as we might remember the heinous crimes perpetrated against living children and the attempts to cover up those crimes.
    Aproppos of that, is it not the case that someone covering up a crime or assisting another to cover up a crime can be charged with beinng an accessory to said crime or at the least with obstructing the course of justice? Of course, I won’t hold my breath waiting for charges to brought against any of these fine gentlemen of the cloth.

    Reply
  • I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again – perhaps the Catholic Church should have been more concerned at the systematic abuse of women and children at their hands (and covering it up), than pontificating over the right for choice. Hypocrites!!

    And as for the suggestion that Abortion is first and foremost a “moral” issue, the CC are just giving similarly .narrow-minded politicians the freedom to blend their personal beliefs (beliefs that just happen to relegate women to second-class citizenship) with politics.

    The #1 issue here is EQUALITY. Something the moronic church care very little about.

    Reply
  • While the bishops are entitled to thier opinion i dont think we should put any weight to it its not like they er come from a deeply moral postion.

    Frankly men should keep out of the argument, we do not have to carry the child, or go through the abortion if carried out and live with that decision.

    Reply
  • In the case of these Men I will remind them that as they do not have a uterus ,they do not have an opinion.

    Reply
    • Abortion affects all equally, to say what you did is equal to saying that because women have a uterus they have no opinion in politics.

      I don’t agree with what they say but, in a free society, they have a right to say it.

      Reply
    • So if there was an article about prostate cancer then you wouldn’t offer or have an opinion? It’s crazy to suggest any group or person isn’t entitled to an opinion. Even in the most restrictive country’s in the world people have opinions about everything. The freedom to express them is something we have in this country. You of course have the right to ignore them or offer your own opinion.

      Reply
    • No it doesn’t Jason.

      Let’s say you get a girl pregnant. She doesn’t want to keep it, you do, so you talk to her about it and still she decides she doesn’t want it. What’s your next move? It’s her body, it’s her choice, so unless you decide to kidnap her and keep her hostage for 9 months there isn’t much you can do about it.

      So you see how we don’t have equal say with women on this subject?

      Reply
    • These bishops are men . These male bishops by their own declaration will not marry or will not father children . So there fore they have no opinion that will impact on women. I was very particular when I said ”these men”. I do not usually comment on abortion as it is a personal decision for a woman and or her partner, and this is where the bishops should leave it too.

      Reply
    • Yes men dnt have uterus’s but I think most people here are just angry at the church for passing judgement on this issue, I’m not atheist or anything like that I just dnt believe in religion at all, but human rights should be put before religion

      Reply
    • Tom Leddy
      These are not normal men . As i already explained , they are not nor will not be fathers and remain as bishops…
      They are of course entitled to their opinion BUT not when it impacts on the life /livelihood/ health of a woman . No one in thei right mind would begrudge them medical intervention for prostate problems ,like wise ,because of NATURE these men have no right to interfere with medical intervention on the life of a woman/mother.
      I have to go now …. Making my way to leinster house

      Reply
    • These bishops are talking about treatments that ‘may endanger the life of the baby’ when everyone else is talking about treatments that WILL end the life of the baby. They are trying to redefine the debate in the hope of keeping things just as they are.

      Reply
    • @Jason If men could have abortion it would have been legalised years ago. It does not effect equally. You have no comprehension what a woman goes trough when she’s pregnant and ether do I.

      Reply
    • Eileen, considering how Men get Women pregnant, i think they should have some kind of comment as to what happens.

      Or do you believe Women get pregnant all by themselves, with help from no-one else?

      Reply
    • Damien Knox
      Read my comments again .
      I never said that men should not have a say. I said that THESE men should keep their opinions to themselves because they will not by their own admissions never procreate…. Go back and read what I said about women and their partners . Don’t be so quick to assume I am anti male opinion.

      Reply
  • Why they were even asked for comment is beyond me. Their opinions are no more important than any other person. It’s like when they asked Britney Spears to comment on the US presidency.

    Reply
  • Of course it is an ethical matter.But whose ethics rules? Outmoded church ethics or rational humanist ethics?

    Reply
  • We know from Government and health care professionals that the vast majority of child abuse of all kinds takes place in the family. Does this mean that abusive parents like I had keep out of such issues?

    Reply
  • Abortion is a business and these proposals could make Ireland rich again . Ireland is one of the few countries that has withstood the trend and with so many young under 25s in the population who are constantly copulating , it will bring in masses of profit . Perhaps this is what Ireland needs at this time . We could be a major centre of abortion if we liberalised it on demand up til the time of birth as the abortion providers want . Abortion clinics could be opened throughout the country and employ thousands of people . The products of pregnancy as they call the destroyed foetus-child could be turned into soap and other luxury goods as well as providing fodder for animals and valu
    able material for scientific research . Stop those antediluvian bishops and catholic morons from forcing their views on the rest of us. Think of the money we could make as well as helping vulnerable women. Those women who used to go to England will be able to stay at home for their abortions and that will also save the boyfriends’ money that was previously spent on travel costs. Wise up Ireland, this is a great opportunity for us men to help our womenfolk and ourselves in the process .

    Reply

Add New Comment