No mention yet of the €10 latest cut to child benefit but I’m sure the Journal will get there.

“U-turn Enda” made a ultimate promise to Eamon Gilmore NOT to further cut child benefit if Eamon supported Enda into power.
Now that latest promise (one amid many) is to be broken again!
Will Gilmore eventually accept it like the good little lapdog Kenny and Fine Gael have turned him and his party into?

Is Labour becoming Fine Gael’s version of the Green party? Used, abused, commanded and spat out?

“introduce a new tax band and rate for the higher paid”
How much will that bring in?

Mort (cos you’re not my uncle), if you think the higher paid are paying their fair share if tax in Ireland – think again.

I remember when my parents paid nearly 58% tax and they were frontline staff. I’m not talking about going back to those rates but I don’t think it’s fair to make cuts across the board.

Réada,I remember paying 65% income tax plus PRSI but thats beside the point,how much would this tax that you are proposing bring in? How would this give an incentive to anyone to work harder? Would it be worth taking a promotion in order to have the pleasure of paying this extra tax?

Mort. For me it would. But I think I’m a bit unique that way. My husband thinks I’m a pain too when he’s giving out doing his tax returns and I remind of our teachers, gardaí, nurses, etc. Shoot me! Time for fair play I think. That’s all!

Worth remembering that the country only started to do well when it cut taxes from 65%. If we want people to get of their arses and create jobs for themselves and for others, the taxman shouldn’t discourage them. The top rate of tax is already 52% and when people have to give more than half their earnings to the government we’ve already gone to far. You can’t tax your way out of a recession and you can’t spend your way out of a debt crisis. This leaves one choice, cut spending…. then cut some more.

People will not trust these cowboys until we see them feeling the pain aswell .

Its great to see a person with a plan!!!!!!!

Not at all sure they are GETTING PAY RISE while everyone else is STRUGGLING THEY SHOULD BE THE FIRST TO RESIGN THE WHE LOT OF THEM AND GIVE IT NACK TO THE PEOPLE TO DECIDE HOW MANY TD’s we really need AND OUT OF THAT NUMBER CHOOSE WHAT MINISTERS ARE NEEDED. KICK REST OUT and definitely get rid of the Seanad Now not next year. Now

@Paul, I think these figures are a little deceiving. I seen these on CNBC a few months back and it states that this includes corporate debt also. Which is high in Ireland due to the large amount of internation companies we have based in Ireland. I could be wrong on this and maybe someone could clarify further. I imagine if this was the true debt of our nation then we’d be buried by the markets long ago.

Government debt is set to peak somewhere below €150bn as far as I know, so Derek is correct. In the notes it also states the data “shows what banks in one country are owed by debtors – both government and private – in another country.”

So if these figures are skewed upwards by corporate debt, what level of debt per capita does Ireland have in comparison to the others like Greece? Surely it can’t be skewed by a factor of 10! Derek or Ryan do you know?

As I understand it, it is the corporate debt that sews it that much but when I went looking for stats on sovereign debts only among western nations I failed to find any. If what Ryan says is true the our sovereign, Debt is only around the 150 billion, it would be good to see some direct comparisons though.

The numbers are inflated by corporate debt, particularly from foreign multinationals that issue bonds out of their Irish subsidiaries to fund the global group. This is not really Irish debt. However, even if you strip this out Ireland’s private debt as a percentage of GDP is the highest in the EU thanks to the housing bubble (sorry, can’t find the reference). The government kept public debt low throughout the boom by forcing borrowers to borrow a little more to pay for stamp tax, VAT and capital gains tax. The public sector has been running on borrowed money since 2003.

Couldn’t tell it better. They lack of some serious looking into and regulation big time.

Well said Diarmuid. Gas how the thumbs turn on you later down.

I totally agree. They sound like their looking for praise when they mention no permanent redundancies…..well two things about this.

1. It will mean that as some very important positions are left by retiring staff, many of these positions won’t be filled or filled by those much less qualified. In some circumstances they may get the right person to move into the position but will this leave another important position not properly staffed?

2. Why do they think its a good thing that those who underperform in their jobs are protected as well as those who perform very well?

I too am sick of this bullshit. Sack the wasters and let those in the public and civil service who work hard remain and continue to earn their wage. Many who I would sack are the managers who are refusing to give accurate rating of the employees the manage, because they are too afraid to rate them as underperform!

Good man Diarmaid. But it’s a pity this waste wasn’t noticed when we had a few quid. Oh wait, it was…… and we came up with the Croker scheme/scam.

Laid off? Did you even read the article? 2nd last paragraph.

The thing is most are retiring rather than being laid off, as the cost of paying them pensions is cheaper than the cost of keeping them working (e.g. €70,000 salary verses €35,000 pension).

The public sector are being sheltered, as you put it, because we have already taken a significant pay cut. My pay has been reduced by 30% since 2008. How much more would you like to take from us? Social welfare hadn’t yet been touched. Why should low earning public sector workers such as myself have to suffer further?

I don’t even want to justify that with a response. The civil service is overstaffed and you want people earning 186 euro a week to suffer before the civil service numbers even get looked at. And just to correct you if you happen to be lucky enough that the social welfare actually answer your call for help you will be on less than 2 years ago!

Diarmaid, not much point in saying you won’t justify something with a response if you then go on to respond. Firstly, I am not a civil servant, I am a frontline public sector worker. Big difference. Secondly, if you actually read my post you would know that the point I was making was nothing to do with staff numbers, it was to do with the pay cuts which some people seem to think should be applied to public sector pay.

Totally agree with you Sarah. The most successful bit of work the government has done in years is to turn the people against each other.

If you read my post I aim no vitriol at frontline staff, sna s are frontline workers. I said Civil servants, who clog up offices doing nothing while frontlines suffer! 2000 hse staff in hr? What I can’t get my head around is why frontline people like yourself aren’t coming out crying foul about civil servants? Instead you all leave unions protect a pen pusher in the hse just as much as a guard or prison officer or nurse who put their lives in danger every day!

Sarah,

I’m sorry to hear your pay was cut by 30%, it must be difficult to manage.

My salary was cut by 100% because I was made redundant earlier this year.

This is a salary cut you will never experience while you are fully employed in the civil/public service.

Agree with Diego’s second sentence fully. The government are doing a great job at dividing and conquering.

Oh and Sarah difference between the words don’t and won’t, I’m sure there is irony in there somewhere!

The ones who should be divided and conquered are the wasters v’s those who earn their wage in the public and civil service.

Why anyone who is worth their wage in these services continue to defend them completely is beyond me. Do you not realise Sarah that you have taken a large amount of your cut because the Government have refused to sack those who do nothing and are a waste of space. If you consider yourself worth your wage then you should fight for it but not in a union that protects you and wasters equally.

By the way Social welfare has been reduced by 10%. in last few years. I’m not sure either if the word earning is appropriate in respect of social welfare! Diarmaid.

Bazza, I am sorry to gear that you were made redundant. I’m sure it’s a nightmare. That does not make it acceptable, however, that I should be expected to continue to do a job which can be dangerous at times (A+E nurse) for very little pay. Diarmaid, I’m sorry but I don’t know what you mean by the don’t/won’t thing?

Sweden shrinks state sector, reduces taxes and sees unemployment fall.
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-14/opinion/frum.sweden_1_fredrik-reinfeldt-swedish-way-civil-servants?_s=PM%3AOPINION

Sarah,

You have chosen where to work, if you aren’t happy there, then leave and go somewhere else.

PUBLIC SECTOR;
-Low pay
-Dangerous at times
-Employment is not performance related

PRIVATE SECTOR;
-Higher pay
-Less dangerous
-Perform or be fired

You decide …..

@ Bazza. Just a slight correction.
Public sector workers are paid on average 44% more than private sector workers.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/survey-reveals-pay-gap-between-public-and-private-sector-514877.html

Sara, just to be clear I fully support staff like you, nursing in a and es with cuts is no joke I’d imagine, but that’s why I am so angry, I believe there should be more nurses, teachers, guards etc and away less civil servants, who let’s be fair, seem to do nothing of any use anyway. While nurses save lives there are 2000 hr staff in the shambles of the hse, why the need for 2000 in hr in one body that can’t lay off staff is mindboggling!

@ Bazza. In addition, the areas of employment with the highest rates of fatalities and injuries are construction and agriculture where you won’t find any public sector workers.

I take your point Diarmaid, and agree with you 100%.

Seán,
thank you.
You made the point then better than I could.

@Silent P. I don’t think anyone is outright calling for these reducions. What the private sector would like to see is

1. The wasters in all areas of public service sacked
2. Remaining frontline staff protected as much as possible
3. Rest of service above average industrial wage take a further cut
4. The implementation of 40hr week for week day staff where aplicable…(not applicable with teachers)
5. Removal of excess holidays over and above the statutory in the state
6. Most other perks – gone! e.g extra hols for certain areas to aid persons into retirement

There are probably more, but I think if you ask any of those above you mentioned they would be happy to protect the frontline services with the exception of any wasters.

Silent, well then let’s employ all the live register in public sector jobs that are not there or required. Job sorted. Or perhaps just get rid of the massively overpaid dead wooden dinosaurs that are currently been paid with money we don’t have. I would prefer the wasters getting dole instead of their unmerited salary grades. Money saved can be used for real needs such as nurses, sna’s, firemen etc. it’s not them v us, it’s a healthy economy v waste.

See it’s this kind of rubbish that does my head in. No one is saying that, but if you think we should all pay higher tax so to keep people in jobs with little or no role you’re delusional. Hell let’s all be public servants, unemployed people, private sector, the lot of us. The money comes from somewhere like, ie. Taxpayer, so when I criticise wasters and useless bodies being paid out of taxes I work hard to pay I’m afraid you’re going to have to suck it up and accept that me, as one of their employers, ain’t happy, so tough on you and them!

You might live to regret saying that!

Personally, I want out of the Eurozone. We joined thinking we’d be sorted for life, and look where it led us! It only enhanced the bubble! Leaving it would do damage but would secure some sovereignty in the long run. But, it is obvious, that our government are a bunch of liars and swindlers and perhaps the IMF would do a better job, not that I want them here!

Start with Howlin..