It’s high time the overall analysis of RTA’s was made public knowledge instead of this closed curtain approach. And before all the ‘what about the relative’s’ starts up I dint mean naming names. It should give a accurate breakdown as to how many were caused by reckless overtaking, speeding, drink, drugs, etc etc. We need to educate our young not closet or Molly cuddle them. This weekend has shown quite clearly the status quo is not working

You can’t stigmatize enthusiasm for cars and motorsports. It’s a multi-billion euro industry, and a perfectly acceptable and enjoyable hobby. We should stigmatize stupidity and wreckless driving. Dangerous drivers and car enthusiasts are separate groups, albeit with a small percentage overlap.

Funny, I could have sworn that’s what I said.

Fair comment but ruined by the use of spas.

Well said Ryan. But the precise details of each accident needs to be published. Including names. I don’t care what the relatives think. Time to stop pussyfooting over this stuff.

When will all the young men grow up?? They grow up all the time…but then more come along…they just keep on coming!!

Are you suggesting we somehow find a way to go from 10 years old to 30 and skip the bit in the middle?

I have. They can’t do squat if the car’s insured etc., and you need to go and make a statement with a view to appearing in court if you want to push it yourself.

I did once report dangerous driving once about 6 years ago. But what can really happen if they’re not there to witness it how can they prove it? I think I only had a vague description of the car and an approximative number plate as I was driving and shocked so not in ‘photographic memory’ form… Again last Monday on a crazy busy N7 into Dublin when a group of lads overtook then undertook everyone by zipping at high speed between *yes you read right* i repeat -between- two cars in the right lane and a lorry in the left, whizzing by as the gap closed like in a video game, well i was just thankful they were gone and thought of the day they kill someone with that…. cos when they kill themselves well I’m sorry but it’s of their own doing, no sympathy from my corner. It’s the others they affect that really saddens me. How do you report something you have no concrete info for surely the guards can’t head off on wild goose chases? (genuine question)

It’s not speeding is the problem. That’s quite an ignorant view point. Speed never killed anyone, it was the dramatic stop that’s the problem. Car control here is the problem. A good driver is as safe doing 100mph as they are doing 10mph. It’s the people who don’t know what they’re doing are as dangerous doing 5mph as they are doing 50mph. Slowing these people down will make them just as dangerous.

@tobias so a blow out at 100mph is the same as at 10mph. An animal running into your path is the same at 100mph as at 10mph. You my friend should think before talking

If you get a blow out, it doesn’t matter what speed you’re doing if you don’t know how to control it. Animals running into your path are irrelevant, if you’re doing 10mph, they will be able to step in front of you, if you’re doing 100mph, unless they are a cheetah on anphetamines they’re going to manage to get in front of your vehicle. Also, rules of the road, can’t stop for animals, its safer to knock them down to avoid further accidents with other cars. It’s cruel, but those are the rules.

Essentially though your point is that if something unexpected occurs at a higher speed it is more dangerous than at a lower speed, well yes that is true, but this will occur at any higher speed, i.e., at 60mph, rather than 55mph, the only safe speed for the unexpected is 0. But my point was that if you’re the type of driver who can make provisions for the unexpected appropriately and minimise risk, than you will be equipped to deal with situations at a higher speed than those who can not at a lower speed. It’s common sense. So Vinny, unless you’re willing to use such things, maybe you should think before talking.

Also this is priceless: Dublin Commute http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE2xNtjJeC0
All these people were going very slow, no speeding here at all! But absolutely shocking and dangerous driving. Classic example of Irish driving.

@tobais you’re doing 100mph and an animal cannot run out of a gate In front of you? If a cow or similar does run out in front of you you’re better off doing 100mph as opposed to 60mph? And I’d seriously love to see the law that says if an animal runs out infront of you you’re supposed to hit it.

You would have to be at a significant distance to be able to walk out in front of anything doing 100mph, a distance which would certainly enable you to dramatically reduce your speed. If it was a close distance anything that moves into your path would hit the side of you, not your front.

You clearly must not have done the driver theory test any time recently. Rules of the Road, and Road Traffic Bye Laws since 1964 state that if it is only practically safe to do so or when the animal is on the charge of a person is there any obligation to overtake. If an animal on it’s own wanders into your path, and braking suddenly, swerving, or overtaking, would cause danger to other road users, this action must be avoided at all costs. If you are travelling at such a speed, and the animal is of such a size as to not harm yourself or others on impact, this is the correct action to take on a road to avoid a RTC.

It’s common sense as well, fox or car with passengers, you choose which is practically safer to hit.

@tobias What age are you if you don’t mind me asking?

Trevor why dont you publish the videos on youtube? If the legal system cannot help maybe seeing themselves or havinf family & friends seeing them will stop them.

Think the problem is there are too many people in rural area due to poor planning.

Easy to refuse putting the son on the family car in a town or city setting not to easy to refuse same when living in the sticks with no other transport option except mammy/daddy taxi.

Would live to see the stats on rural versus urban road deaths. Cue culchie red thumbs.

@Gavin: The city has just as bad public transport, not as desolate as the countryside, but certainly not an acceptable standard that cars are not needed. Have you seen the amount of traffic in city centers recently, if anything there are more cars and mad old people on phones in a hurry skipping lights causing accidents every day of the week, not like once a week on the quiet country roads. Planning is an issue, but it’s public transport is the real killer in Ireland.

Great idea, but why limit it to young people. There are plenty of middle aged people out there who need just as much road education. Road systems, signs and behaviors have changed enormously in the last 20 years, the people who did their tests in the 80′s need refresher / repeat driving tests as much as anybody.

The most dangerous driver I ever met is currently 62 years old male, learned to drive before roundabouts were introduced in ireland…. has no idea how to use them…. doesn’t understand right of way at most junctions, hasn’t got control of clutch or gears, and drives at a speed of 40mph no matter what the road or road condition, also suffers from conditions which would mean he wouldn’t qualify for a driving licence now. Yet he has a full one, tax and very low insurance so he’s seen as perfectly acceptable!!! Come on lads… what’s going on in Ireland!!!

Because the time for this is given to religion and as we all know thanks to the Dept. of Education rulebook, rule 65. Religion is the most important subject…so enough of this sensible nonsense please.

I read somewhere that there are proposals to be included in the RSA’s new Road Safety Strategy to introduce Driver Education in transition year – whether these proposals actually come to pass or not is another story.

*Souped up not soiled.

Where’s me other comment gone. Is it because I said the word bag with a 4 letter word in front of it with an s, a c, a u, and and m.
???

Can you imagine driving anywhere with the roads full of cars restricted to 60km? The amount of over taking that would occur would be unbelievable and probably cause more deaths and accidents. A more realistic limit would be car size. Though that is almost there already with crippling insurance prices.

Car size or power wont make a difference either, doesnt matter how small or big it is, it will still be able to do 80mph and seen as it can do it these guys will want to do it. And just as a reminder a car going under the speed limit is just as bad as a car going the speed limit or just over it, each crash has it own circumstances that will also result in the injuries sustained in the crash.

Aaron I am 25 and drive a 1.1 206. The power of my car impacts massively on my decision making. I need more time and space to overtake. Often been stuck behind slow moving traffic but not had the power to even consider a potentially risky manoeuvre.

It doesnt mean that you cant overtake though, it just means you have the common sense not to try it caus you know it would be risky, I used to drive a 1ltr punto and when needed I could overtake a tractor or slow moving vehicle, it was slower than that of a 2ltr car but I could still do it when the time was right. Its all about judgement, I was driving to work the other morning and I seen a person overtake 4 cars, one of them mine while on the phone on a national road in some sort of Daewoo car, it wasn’t a powerful car but she took the chance a made it, it was the most stupidest thing I ever seen but she was able to do it, it comes down to decision at the end of it, whether or not these clowns will learn that the slightest mistake can end in tragedy but they dont think that, as others said, they think they are invincible

Bikers are restricted to 33bhp while they hold their learner permit and for the first two years of holding their full licence (this is due to change in January as the government are finally bringing in direct access for over 24s). There was talk of restrictors being introduced to cars in the last Road Safety Strategy of the RSA but nothing ever came of the proposals.

Not really accurate as I can drive a BMW F650 on a learner permit which is 44bhp, there’s grey areas

What about old careless speeders in their massive jeeps and large cars that they don’t know how to control, at speeds they don’t know how to drive at, while on their phones, after a glass of wine in their local…..? Personal responsibility.

Yes they should take personal responcibility for their actions too. You can’t deny the statistics – young speeding drivers are been killed weekly….not older drivers !!

@tobias, you seem to be a highly qualified advanced driver who is a pioneer in road safety and have a set of facts that imply that all the international studies which show young male drivers are the biggest risk are wrong. So instead of all your waffle just give the facts. But not the stupid one like nothing can run out infront of a fast moving car. The real facts

Why the red thumbs?

Do people not want to know what happened in these accidents ???

anybody can go into the coroners court and can sit through all the Garda evidence relating to a persons death in unnatural circumstances. its all there for anybody to see

Except you could have a major pile up with no one killed and subsequently no inquest.

Gavin, a major pile up with no one killed will generally lead to a court case hence the fact publicly available. A fatal accident = inquest.

Personal injury accident = investigation and if need be a court case.

Non injury accident = investigation if obvious offence committed and possible court case.

Whether dangerous road behaviour or drug/alcohol abuse research has shown that shock tactics re:media campaigns are not as effective as you might think. Personally I find them very moving/disturbing and at the time of viewing they do explicitly inspire commitment to ‘slow down’ or ‘know the one that’s too many’ or ‘one in two die from smoking related illness’ but back in the real world that doesn’t stick, people revert to type, habitual behaviour overpowers reason and rationality. People are not rational and it is only through direct experience that many once dangerous drivers can gain the insight and wisdom to slow down and behave appropriately. There are several variables to factor in, as some point out, actual cause of crash for example but there is no one silver bullet for these ‘accidents’ – a combination of education, consequences in law/punitive fines/penalty points (which have had huge impact in recent years), attitude change re socialisation of values within peer groups, stigmatising of bad driver behaviour, and yes some shock tactics. Unfortunately the bigger social issue is that of suicide, something which we in Ireland are only recently giving appropriate focus to-let’s put more funding into reducing suicide completion rates in line with the ratio of RTA deaths to suicide. Suicide is a more prevalent issue but never gets the same attention, for obvious reasons, both understandably and cynically.
If its about saving lives, greater reduction can now be made on the suicide stats-RTA fatalities in Ireland are at a reasonably ‘good’ level from international comparison, more can be done but lets get the priorities in order.

4. A ban for any driver caught texting while driving. Almost everyone agrees with ban for drink driving yet texting while driving has been proven to be more dangerous than drink driving. This research was carried out before the new limits on drink driving came into force.

What I don’t understand is how drivers currently 40+ who drove in the day when there were no penalty points, need for seatbelts, no traction control, or ABS, when you could drink and drive and many many would (Gay Byrne an obvious example) and when if you failed you licence a few times, or had your provisional for long enough they just hand you a full licence and at a time when the road conditions were entirely different…. can now come along and say that because we have the lowest number of road deaths last year ever, and the young drivers are now the most educated ever, and provisions have been made for road safety, that these young people are all crazy and none of them will get past 30. We’ll the last generation was utterly reckless and there are plenty of them still being reckless around. So before we start point fingers, maybe it’s time for some reflection

Great comment by Tobias there. It is this generation that has broken the acceptance of drink driving. This generation that wear belts, and this generation that actually know how to use roundabouts.

Chris Excellent point. Because a vehicle is overtaking an hits another coming in opposite direction does not mean that the overtaking driver is at fault. I was almost killed while overtaking when a car entering from minor road never looked left.lucky for me the driver I was passing moved onto hard shoulder and left me room. So commenters should not be jumping to conclusions and wait until a full report is released for accidents that appeared on the journal

A common sense approach. Oh dear, how will all these know it all elders stigmatise young people and speed now.

Then id be out of a job with no way of paying for college, stupid suggestion.

The people getting into crashes are just bad drivers, it’s got nothing to do with age. Whether they get in a car at 14 or 44, they’re still going to be bad drivers. The problem is not age. Maybe if we just shut down the roads altogether and just walk everywhere we’d reduce the number of road accidents… well of course. People with ideas floating around in their head should keep them there.

Tobias. Wrong. A small percentage of accidents are caused by the councils negligence to keep roads up to standard, eg potholes, hidden stop or yield signs behind overgrown bushes. Oil spillage, sand, gravel spillage etc etc. What about being the innocent driver?

@Sean: I couldn’t agree more. I would contribute a significant percentage to council negligence!

Obligatory nanny state comment.

A bit big brother there I’d say. Why not put cameras in everyones house also to see if we are doing anything illegal in the privacy if our homes.

That’s exactly what I thought when I read that. Are people devoid of personal responsibility anymore???

25??? are you serious??? How do you expect younger drivers to get to work, shoping bring kids to school etc. It would be more important to have a harder driving test and teach people how to drive than restricting age.

That is just completely idiotic. How will people get around. Your generation hasn’t provided any alternative transport or a public transport system. It’s ridiculous.

I am 24 years old, I have a 2litre engine car, I have a full licence, I’ve been driving since I was 17. I’ve driven on 4 continents and have driven a very wide range of cars, I know car maintenance. I have done several advanced driving courses, track driving and high speed racing. I know the rules of the road to the letter, I have pre-hospital care qualifications and I like cars. I have never been in a road accident, and I never use my phone while driving. I have a clean licence and my insurance premium is huge.

The amount of careless, idiotic, bad drivers, who are 30+ out there, I can’t even count. Every day I am out on the roads, I see at least one of them. And it’s not that they aren’t causing crashes, it’s that we, are avoiding them and using responsibility and common sense to navigate the roads.

I will stake anything on the fact that I am a safer driver than anyone twice my age, but yet you wish to stigmatise me, and say I shouldn’t be allowed to even start learning to drive for another two years…. There is no logic to your statements at all. And such bias, ignorant views should really be curtailed. It’s appalling the level of blame the older Irish generations are willing to put blindly on the younger generations, when we currently have the lowest road deaths ever, and almost the most ever young drivers on the road.

@tobais you have never done an advanced driving course in your life you liar, you said in an earlier post that nothing could walk out infront of a fast moving vehicle.. That along with other comments you have made show that you are a young lad who THINKS he knows it all.

You tried to give me a lesson in Road traffic legislation earlier but let me tell you my dear boy if a horse or cow or person or anything else strays into your path are your driving to fast, far from the law saying you should hit it you will be prosecuted.

Incorrect Vinny, on all accounts. It’s a shame that not only do you know nothing about driving, but you know even less about the law and certainly ignorant of physics.

@tobias

Can you tell me the system of car control?

Can you tell me the litrature you studied during your advanced driving course?

What company did you do the course with?

What drivers organisation are you affiliated too?

@tobias, I am quiet up to date on Raod Traffic Legislation let me assure you.

I will admit I never studied physics but what that has to do with anything is baffling. You seem to believe that two objects cannot arrive at the same location at the same time. You are basically saying that a person or an animal or a car has never walked, stepped or pulled out infront of a fast moving vehicle before resulting in a horrific accident. Are u for real of just messing

I agree the garda are not to blame but doing the ‘best with what they have ‘ isn’t good enough at the moment and won’t fix the problem , I was using some of the Garda examples just to highlight how inadequate the current system is to meaningfully address the problem , and it’s not their fault but they sure as hell can play a part in the solution m with whatever mix of ideas put forward they can play a meaningful role , the point was to question having them allocated to shoot fish in a barrel when they could perhaps be more meaningfully deployed it was not to apportion the blame on the Garda

How many young drivers are on Irish roads, not all of them are driving recklessly so why should all be punished for the mistakes of a few. I see older drivers on the road, and I mean people in there 80′s who drive very badly so should we ban all people over the age of 80 from driving at particular times etc.

One individual said above that it would be good to see stats on the different rates of accidents in the country vs city . I am from the country side and I too would like to see them, but would also like to see the difference between rural towns and the country side etc. The only thing I would have to said on this is that it is very difficult to compare city to county because lots of the roads in the country side are dangerous. Like roads that can only fit a car and a half, pot holes, over grown ditches, etc.

I believe that the state of country roads at the min need to be sorted out in order to cut down on the number of accidents.

what exactly do you think the powers that be can do? Get someone to sit in every car in the country forcing people to drive more carefully?

It’s awful that there have been so many accidents over the last couple of days and my heart goes out to the family’s involved but a lot of money is already put into awareness campaigns, policing efforts and a whole range of other road safety initiatives but there’s only so much anyone can do and after that it’s down to the people who are sitting in the driver seat to observe the speed limit, pay attention to the road and their surroundings and not let themselves get distracted.

At a certain point we need to stop blaming “the powers that be” and start looking at ourselves and what is an acceptable driver behavior in the community.

Do you mean God fagan?

@Michael Agreed, you can’t monitor everyone’s driving habits but the government can do something about it. There should be retesting at least every 10 years and R plates between provisional and full licenses with heavy penalties to those that don’t follow the law

Could agree more Michael. When the powers that be try to bring in new legislation to deal with something like this they are accused of trying to create a nanny state. Any increase legislation and enforcement are not the answer here. It is all about personal responsibility. You would think after the horrific accident outside my home town of Tullamore that it would make other young drivers think about theirs actions. Obviously not.

They are too busy doing speed checks hiding behind bus shelters on the relatively safe Stillorgan dual carriageway. Shooting fish in a barrel.

so the “powers that be” can do nothing? that’s why road death has been halved over the past years us it? its as a direct result of initiatives undertaken by the RSA. they are doing great work, and will continue to explore feasible ways to alter young men’s driving behaviour. it won’t be altered by itself, it needs initiatives to raise the awareness of consequence of action and behaviour within our younger drivers. we don’t just accept this tragic loss, we must constantly find ways to lessen it. there are always more we can do to keep our young drivers safer through education and initiative.

Retesting every ten years is probably not a bad idea but at the same time no-one involved in any of the accidents could have been driving for more than ten years as the oldest people involved appear to have been in their mid twenties? And when it comes to a driving test people are likely to be on their best behaviour. I’ve seen fully licensed friends of mine do stuff they’d never try during a test..

The only thing I can think of is a fully fledged driver education program in secondary schools but people have been suggesting that for years and if it didn’t get introduced while the gov was swimming in money what chance is there of it happening now??

Maybe the powers that be could start with not allowing people to drive away from a test center after failing their tests? I think Ireland’s the only country that does that