The old recruitment embargo put paid to that, bit like pulling the ladder up behind them.

But in fairness you’d want to be completely stupid and uneducated having a child in this country now

Well Martina, I read there’s a baby boom at the moment!

Because there are ways of beating the means test. We have a baby boom at the moment… Hard times call for hard measures.

I can. Both parties are trying to hold onto votes. That and the expense to means test it would nullify paying the benefit. Don’t fool yourself, this budget is not a fiscal adjustment to right the books. This is playing around taking as much as possible while loosing as few votes as possible.

As for righting the books, we will never ever be able to repay what is owed, which by the Taoiseach’s own words is not our fault. But we are still paying. But not too much, sure that’s why we’ll vote for them next time. Utter delusional insanity.

Some say it would cost more to means test than the potential savings would reap. But perhaps it could be administered via Revenue on line where you must enter your ppsn and you qualify based on your previous years returns. Then revenue administer the payments.

Mass breeders sick comment Paul either you have no kids or your so right wing you have to look sideways to see something in front of you.

Spot on correct!!!!

I have kids, and I think that having upward of half a dozen and expecting the state to pay for them is a form of lunacy, or laziness. Or both.

I see nothing at all wrong with a flat rate per child, as is happening from hereonin.

paul we’re not all like that and people that are like that dont deserve kids let alone money

I agree Alex.

What if you already have a large family and have lost your job or are in chronic poverty due to sickness, disability etc? There are families who must be in real shock tonight. Imagine, you’re a young widow or you’ve been deserted. Your income is primarily from social welfare, with perhaps one person in the household in low paid part-time work. You have a young adult (under 24) in the household, maybe with cystic fibrosis or autism, whose disability allowance is being cut by €88 per week! That’s a lot of money even for people on good income. The younger ones’ child benefit is cut. Next September the back to school allowance is cut. VAT up. And PRSI contributions to qualify for for the widows’ pension trebled…

One of the reasons child benefit was increased was because the tax allowance you once got for children was abolished most other civilised countries still have a tax allowance for children along with children allowance also along with the cuts the length of time you got childrens allowance was was also cut from 19 years (if child was still in the education system) to 18 years yet no one ever seems to bring up these points

we’ll need plenty of babies to pay for the mistakes of this generation; to provide us with a pension as the reserve fund was given to the banks. And to create a housing demand again. Bonuses should be dished out for large families.

Note my full arms.. vested interest or what.

I’d make one point on that Rory. As I understand it we ran up more of a sovereign deficit in the first three years of the recession than we ever have or will put into the banks. And even more cogent, the overall deficit by the time we break even will be made up of something in the region of 70% plus sovereign, and the rest of it lost through bank recapitalisations etc. The sad fact is, the unsecured (senior) bondholder debt has already been subsumed into our sovereign debt, this having been achieved quietly, and without fanfare, by Brian Lenihan, as part of one of the guarantee extensions, I don’t remember which one.

Given that we’re part of a bailout now anyway, I don’t see an issue with writing down junior bondholder debt, I really don’t think, for the amount it represents, that the markets will care a whole lot in 2015 anyway.

In my opinion, the banks, reckless bastards that they were, caused and are causing two major problems for us, the debt they placed on our shoulders being the third;

-The Pension Reserve Fund was raided. if we still had that, it would be a useful war chest for capital expenditure and job creation initiatives. All those babies been born right now or in the last two or three years are gonna need schools, for example.

-The credit crunch is stifling business, and new startups, again, which is hampering job creation.

Sadly, our deficit is the problem, followed by the terms of repayment or maintenance-which impact on our budget every year. And our deficit is so high because our stagnant economy cannot support job creation. Couple that with the fact that FF fostered a totally unsustainable model centred around construction, and you’re down to a two fold approach, retraining, and nurturing any and all job creation initiatives possible.

It remains to be seen whether they’ll manage either or both.

I completely agree..everyone is giving out to each other when they should be focusing on the government.

@ Ryan: Great analysis. I’m sick of making the point that while the bank bailout led to the Troika bailout, an unsustainable economic model (built mostly on construction taxes) would still have led to this austerity (or spending what is taken in).

I could not have put it better myself . Some people are just so arrogant in their asumptions on the reasons children are born . It is insulting and ignorant .and to think that most of the commentators have parents….you would think that you were reared in test tubes til you were ready to go and work…For Goodness sake , get a grip people ,children are our future .

Cost of living is a serious cause of why SW is higher than our neighbours and then theres all the stealth taxes, but this country has one thing going for it it’s does not make 7/8 yr olds go around with an ak47 , each country gets money it’s what it does with it which shows.

I’m sure a lot of people who had kids during the “good times” a few years back thought they could afford to provide the life and opportunities they wanted for their kids. Guess what? things changed, but one thing never changes and that’s the fact that those who can least afford it are targeted over and over again while the gap between rich and poor widens further.

@Rommell

My point is the Gov should be sending out the message that the welfare system is a means of last resort for people who find themselves in a situation due to extraordinary circumstances. It shouldn’t be a lifestyle choice.

martin..you accused me of dreaming of the cb payment while knovking woodworm out of headboard on a previous thread on this topic. you need to grow up..where is your proof that people say..hmm lets have child and party!

Martin , sometimes I don’t know if you are genuinely Thick or just thoughtless in your comments,or maybe you are just doing it to wind people up .

@Colm Mooney;I never accused you of dreaming anything, quite the opposite in fact, i suggested you should have thought of the consequences of your actions.

Again i Never said “people say..hmm lets have child and party!” i said if some has a child for the purposes of drawing down benifits they should have the child taken off them.

sorry if my comments dont quite fit in with your cause. but if it makes you feeel more secure in your martyrdom go right ahead and tweak them to suit yourself.

@Eileen Gabbet : none of the above, which one do you find offensive precisely

MARTIN mc CORMACK #
1)Anybody that has a child with childrens allowance in mind should have the child taken off them
2) rich kids
3)there lots of people traipsing all over the world to buy children, the call it foreign asdoption, i’m sure they would only be too glad to take them on
These comments are from this thread ,to be honest i don’t know to be amused ore annoyed . My youngest son has not met his father , he wanted me to abort him…. Then when my son was born a close relative told me that I should have given him up for adoption…. Obviously I did not do either and Yes child benefit was a huge asset to me , and even if I didn’t receive it I would still have my son with me. I have never received social welfare as I have always been fortunate to work and pay my way. Neither have I received child maintenance from this ”man”, altho it took me four years to have his name on my son’s birth certificate.So yes I am very proud to be me and have the best children who are a great joy to me . I reckon Martin you do not think about what you write and for the sake of mutual agreement I will choose to think you amusing as I do not think you are malicious.

1) i repeat anybody that has a child should have the child taken off them, as the are not fit parents,, i dont see how that applies to you
2) i think that was in reply to some clown that stated that his kids had just had money grabbed from their hands by a wealthy person driving a merc. Which of course is a total load of bulldung, even if it happened how did he know the person was rich or even owned the car
3) there are people traipsing all over the world traipsing all over the world to adopt children. Of course it’s called adoption because they only pay fees to intermediaries to bribe officials and buy some little thing for the parents or the orphanage the come out of, oddly enough like our orphanages nobopdy ever notices that one or probably both of the orphans parents may e alive. The destination of choice changes from year to year as country after country tighten up their regulations.
Of course it’s not nice to say any of this stuff. if it makes you feel better by all means you can think that I dont think about what I’m saying or that it is amusing, but wont change the facts

Martin..the comment about the mercedes was..wait for it…sarcasm..person in mercedes stands for govt minister…you should get out more!

Martin
I take back what I said , You are not unthinking , you are not amusing . You are Malicious !

@ Com mooney, i gathered that, as was my reply RICH KIDS, it all just seems to have went over eileens head.

to be honest i need to stay in more, this place is gas and not half as hard on the liver. keep on knocking

Martin Mc Cormack @ Your arrogance is beneath my contempt , and nothing goes over my head .

I think that one did Eileen.

sorry should have linked to MisterWriteNow

there lots of people traipsing all over the world to buy children, the call it foreign asdoption, i’m sure they would only be too glad to take them on

Its not supposed to cover everything!! I depend on my children’s allowance to pay towards my mortgage & really appreciate it. However, in comparison to other countries it is very high. We’ve all gotten used to it & therefore depend heavily on it.

of course it’s meant to cover everything, you dont expect people to spend their own money on their children do you?

In fairness a lot of that was FFs tactic of buying elections

Please explain why you think the first child should get €140 a month while the third and fourth get €167 and the fifth onward get €177. Surely economies of scale are there after the first child? And what logical reason is there for twins getting 1.5 times the payment (€210 each)?

Also it was the last government, FF etc, who increased the child benefit rates leading to a total spend of €2.5bn a year.

As was said above, only the most needy should depend on welfare.

….or why you think it is only people who rent their homes are affected? I have two children on CB I own my own home (well still paying a mortgage) And I am a single parent .I am sick of the poor me attitude some people have when they assume all lone parents are on social welfare and living in social housing …. My two older children went to college and are working in this country . Am I fortunate , maybe, but it felt like bloody hard work over the years .There were times during the boom years I had no money for a trip to the cinema , let alone a holiday… It is called LIFE and taking responsibility.People should get over this sense of entitlement .and get on with what they have to do .My sympathy lies with ‘the new poor’ the ones who were in well paid jobs and then capput jobs gone and every thing crashes down .

rich kids

Is it wise to have money in tiny childrens hands, how do you know the driver was rich, it might even have been a stolen car. Did you get the reg and call the guards