Great read!

Of course they won’t meet the conditions of the bailout…a lot of the citizens have no money and if you have no money, austerity measures can’t be implemented!

A nation that relies on increasing credit creation for growth will always be subject to credit booms & busts. This applies to most western nations. Not just Greece or the GIIPS.
The markets have already given the latest Greek deal the thumbs down.
Euro & European stocks already declining.
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-21/asia-stocks-euro-aussie-fall-amid-greece-rescue-talks-treasuries-drop.html

Since the Greek government lied left, right and center effectively to steal billions from international lenders, you can hardly blame the international community, who ultimately carries the can for the theft, to do its best to ensure it doesn’t happen again.

I agree, and the fact that the money is being put into an ESCROW account to service the debt shows the level of mistrust between The creditors and Greek politicians. Obviously they don’t want the money skimmed off, as it was in the past. It still doesn’t alter the fact that it’s corporate colonialism. The politicians over the past thirty years in Greece have collective responsibility for this state of affairs.

The people who lent in good faith to the Greek government included ordinary people, pension and retirement funds, regular savers as well as rich people. They’ve all lost around three quarters of their money because successive Greek governments lied.

A bit of balance and perspective on your part might help.

You´re barking up the wrong tree there Robin!

Exactly Robin. It’s about time we thought of the bondholders and moneylenders.

Don’t mind that Neil fella. He’s one of those Mad, Greedy Irish fellas Enda’s warned Europe and the whole world about.

@Reada
I can shut you up by just asking where the money comes from to pay for PS pay and SW when we run the troika out of town, given that one third of that spending is being funded by borrowing from the troika.

They´re the kind of questions you just run away from, with child-like talk about “magic money trees”.

It´s no wonder that while you claim to be on the side of “the people”, the unions are most certainly not on your side.

this is way more than pensions or ppl problems,, its about bank,, eu, imf, esm,, goldman sachs, rothschilds,,, its being said for a very long time about their hidden agenda,, and its now coming true,,,,, flood the markets with money,,, then stop giving credit,,, what you have is debt,, and debt has to be repaid,,, its only ppl power that will stop this

Enough of that “money tree” talk Neil. Of course we can’t run Troika out of town. Where will we get the money to pay back the bondholders, the money for the ATMs. Neil, I’ve turned over a new leaf. I’m rowing in behind Enda. I’ve pulled on my green jersey eamonn sent me. It’s time you did too.

That´s it Reada, never answer the question. Just stick to the unincorns and fairy dust.

@ Neil. Ho you honestly think this austerity program will work for Greece?

My take on it is this will prove the tipping point for Greece. With an unemployment rate of 21% and 48% of those under 25 unemployed this program will throw another 150.000 into that number. GDP has contracted by over 13% in the last 4 years by 7% in the last quarter of 2011. Do you not think more austerity is not just pooring petrol on the fire? All I can see is this program causing huge social unrest and suffering. Greece should default exit the Euro. Aslong as Greece is tied to the Euro it will never become competitive meaning the vicious circle will continue and Greece will require yet another bail out in a couple of years time . The Trioka’s facts and figures just do not stand up. They are expecting Greece to return to economic growth next year how?

@Kerry
As ever, there´s supposed to be this magic bullet which means no borrowing, and no austerity at the same time.

Certainly in the case of Ireland it´s an impossibility. If we don´t borrow then PS pay and SW will be slashed, and taxes will rise even more. And that will be austerity in anybodys book. If we leave the euro then the main advantage will be that the government can pay the PS pay bill and SW less in a sly way. But really it´ll be austerity.

Greece, I don´t know. It´s such a basket case that they might be better to leave the euro and down size their wage structure. But If they´re not getting all these billions as part of this bailout, and they can´t borrow, then is the average Greek pensioner going to be better off next month? No they´re not. Maybe in five years time they´d be better off. But in the short term they will suffer a lot.

I am perfectly open to arguments about default, and leaving the euro, being an advantage in the long term. What I cannot stand is people claiming that it will avoid austerity in the short/medium term, or rather just keeping quiet about that aspect because they know it does not play well.

If you are honest about the short-term severe pain of not being able to borrow then it´s a perfectly reasonable thing to discuss a unilateral default.

@ neil,,, the average wage is 5oo a month,, and its going to be cut by 40%,,,, ya cant tell me that they are better off in the euro,,, its just not possible,,,, they have sold their country signed in by an unelected eurocrat and yet the ppl are still paying for it,,, wont work in my book

Neil
The unions sold us out along with their souls .
It is amazing to think of seemingly ”intelligent” people like
yourself ,buying into the nonsense the government and bankers
are selling you . Yes the money must come from somewhere to pay all thje PS and social welfare
etc . Well it is there . It is in the coffers already . Very wealthy people have it . They pay minimal taxes
and benefit massively.
God help the Greeks ! We are next !

Icelands economic activity returning to pre-crash levels while implementing relief for distressed mortgage holders.
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-20/icelandic-anger-brings-record-debt-relief-in-best-crisis-recovery-story.html

Eileen, if you think we´re going to replace the 10bn+ from the troika that is funding PS pay and SW just by some extra taxes on “the rich” then you´re dreaming. The real rich can shuttle their liquid cash anywhere they want. If you want 10bn you´ll have to seize the savings of ordinairy Irish people. And we´re talking about an annual deficit. You´ll have to get that money every year.

It doesn´t suit some peoples world view that the troika borrowing is allowing the government to spend billions more on services than it gets in taxes, but that´s the situation.

Even the fairy dust can’t get rid of you Neil. ;) Good to see you’re in safe hands tho. I’m working today trying to get loadsa taxes for Enda. See ya.

Take care Reada. Wouldn´t want you to worry too much about giving straight answers to the the hard questions. Stick to the rainbows and magic money trees.

”seize the savings of ordinairy Irish people……… ”
The sad thing is Neil You believe that this is OK.
It is not ok . Very far from ok . It is THIEVERY.
Listen to what you are being told , Listen to your heart , Hear
what is being said . Do you want them to take your hard earned savings ?
They will not get mine .

i think robin goldman sachs are the babies to blame on this one

You have savings?

That is more likely to be the case for Spain or Portugal.

they got what they were looking for,, thats full control over greece,, i’ve been saying it for a long time,, and it will happen here,,, heres to capitolism,,, and the ppl actually pay for others to take over their country,, god knows where this will end

your spot on ,,,, sooner ppl realize whats going on the better,, Ireland is next that you can be sure,, and if ppl are unsure about whats going on just look up rothschilds on youtube,, and their hidden agenda,, of all the world banks, they own 70% of the wealth,,, and its only one family that live in germany,,, they have complete control of the IMF, EU BANKS, THE FEDERAL RESERVE,,, look them up ppl

by all reports their is a massive demo going on right now,,, wont end peacefully