Never escaped my attention the surnames of some of our greatest heroes. Thanks for posting Manfred.

Up the rebels! (And my Dad’s from Kerry!)

‘THEY’ are the people we elected. ‘ THEY’ are not aliens dropped out of the heavens to rob and plunder the population. Politicians are those chosen from the general population to run the country. They are chosen by the general population. The majority of the population chose those in the current government. That was 9 or so months ago. For the love of God can we just give it a chance. What is going on in our country at the moment is a pure nightmare and but I am prepared to go along with the majority and see if the current crop of politicians can do anything to get us back on track. The independent TD’s will never have enough support to govern the country and it is so easy for them to suggest civic unrest. I suspect they still collect their salary of €95,000 plus leaders allowances and travel expences. How about each independent TD paying the household charge for 100 constituents. (total cost €10,000)

Sorry Pat, but they were elected on the basis of a pack of lies. Their dishonesty and cutehoorism put them in the dail. So don’t blame the people who trusted them, blame them for their dishonesty.

Finnaly a mature comment. Thank you.

Because if FG or FF do that then who are they going to use as a bogeyman. These are the 2 worst performing parties economically in Europe, they need a distraction.

I must have been sick the day Gerry Adams owned up to his membership of the pIRA

You must have been sick for the years he was interned for defending his fellow countrymen too.

But Gerry was never in the PIRA so how was he defending them.

I can’t wait for the day there can be truth told regarding all the loss of life on this island. Truth and forgiveness! Perhaps the British government should take the lead?

@ Cormac, Gerry Adams’ membership (or not) of the PIRA aside, who said you must have been a memebr of the PIRA to defend your countrymen? John Hume, and many others like him, weren’t members of any paramilitary organisation. Are you saying they couldn’t have (or didn’t) defended their countrymen either?

@ Cormac, Gerry Adams’ membership (or not) of the PIRA aside, who said you must have been a memebr of the PIRA to defend your countrymen? John Hume, and many others like him, weren’t members of any paramilitary organisation. Are you saying they couldn’t have (or didn’t) defended their countrymen either? Each chose their respective courses based on their beliefs at the time.

So what if he was in the IRA or not. The point is you were never a member of anything except maybe the CC where you were getting your arse felt by the priest.

Im a Protestant, but to be honest, I don’t see what the Catholic Church has to do with this. The fact is, regardless whether we like it or not, we are members of this country, and iti is our duty to do what is right for our fellow brothers and sisters. So, we should not pay this bill.

Got the earlier email re previous CC thing but hadn’t returned to see to what it had related. Yours, however, Ryan forced me to. Had to go back to see how someone had thought your religion had a bearing. Can see now it wasn’t directed at you but I’ll take this opportunity to say you’re a welcome addition to this topic which seemed to steer towards the question of Irish nationalism. Tends to if re Sinn Féin! Posted a comment at end in reply to a letter to Editor in Irish Times posted by Manfred Mayer. Like to add that the religion of Ireland’s greatest heroes never went unnoticed with me either. Back to topic you’re right, no one should pay the bill. 

About time someone stopped pussyfooting around and told it like it is!!!!!!!!………how can our ministers pay themselves more the the german/French ministers and this little country of 4 million is broke!!!!!!!

Well said Cal. Like the MLK quote too.

So none of the SF politicians get big salaries no? I am not condoning the huge salaries politicians receive but they all receive them including SF. I would have no problem supporting any political party or politician if they were realistic and actually spoke some sense and sorry but in my opinion I have never seen this with SF and I cannot see what contribution these and many independents like Wallace and Luke Ming are making to helping this county get out of a very difficult time. unfortunately many politicians make comments for the better of their own party and not the country.

@Meabh – Firstly I hate SF and nearly all there policies, but you should get your facts right. All SF TD’s only take the average industrial wage.

I support the independents as they speak for them selves and in a real way, unlike FG, FF, SF Labour who are basically puppets for there puppet masters

puppet masters
FG – Germany
FF – *ankers & Developers
LB – Trade Union bosses
SF – Terrorists/reformed Terrorists

@Meabh, this is not pedantics i am calling you on … Its a serious point !!!

Not condoning and condeming are two totally seperate view points. I 100% condemn the Taoiseach, ministers for taking salaries over 100k.

SF TDs do take the salaries paid to them. However, they have those salaried paid directly into a specific account under party control. The TDs then take the average industrial wage from this controlled account. The rest of the money in the account is used for constituency and charity work. That is extremely different to the way FF/FG/Labour TDs operate.
I know that i will have the Labour/FF/FG supporters stating that this is not acceptable, that the SF TDs should only take the average wage from the state and forget about using the controlled account, but at the end of the day, we all know where this unused Tax Payer money will go …. straight into the Bankers and rich elites pockets .. so SF made a deliberate decision to use this fund for the poorest in society ie they could not trust the govenment parties to do it fairly. And based on the Governments budget last week, the Government just proved them right.

I love the way Sinn Féin involvement in 26 counties have helped raise the question of a united Ireland again. They’re certainly bringing it to the fore. About time too!

@ Meabh, I agree with much of what you say regarding the state of politics in this country. But regarding SF: yes they get the big salaries but they live on the average industrial wage (+ expenses) and give the rest to the party in the hope of furthering their political ideals, which for me at least, represents a willingness to live a life similar to those they represent. Can you say that about any other political partry in the country?

But cal they still claim their full pay from the state. The fact that they take the average ind wage benefits sinn fein, not the taxpayer. Also does their expenses get paid the same way.

Cormac. Would you rather they didn’t claim it so gov could send it down big black bank hole. I’m glad they claim it so it stays on this island.

sorry can’t remember wher that quote originates from ,but it does appear in Leon Uris’s trinity

Good for you, I wish I could give you more then one thumbs up :)

I’m broke and I will be paying it.

im broke and i wont be payin it.

Yes Kevin. I think we probably don’t have to wait too long before the euro will be gone anyways. Noonan said the referendum will be on whether we want to be in the euro or not. By that time, there won’t be a euro.

How is it unfair?

unfair?

me (mature student – e188 a week) —Millionaire also pays e100

Do the maths and go off and pay it if you think it’s fair. Off with the sheep

Well just in case you can’t work it out for yourself: Bertie Ahern, Brian Cowen, Enda Kenny etc. all on massive salaries/pensions/perks will have to pay this 100 euro while many of our elderley citizens, currently forced to choose between food or fuel, will have to pay the same 100 euro. Duh!

I wish the Government had just put this trough as a stealth tax, which has been done before, at least we could have gone about our business in blind ignorance.

Well seeing as one shimmer lives in a council house he doesn’t have to pay it anyway.

He.is representing an area that is mostly council….what should he do? Btw I am not a follower or supporter of sf, they aren’t my thing but I can see why he lived there.

Na. too cold.

I think you’ll find they regularly do.

Fine Gael levying unfair blanket taxes. Who would have guessed?

For two years only until we have the index to implement a progressive system!

David, do you expect us to believe that after FG and Labour’s litany of broken election promises? Sure why not a wealth tax for 2 years until a progressive system can be implemented?

Noddy, sad thing is poor aul Davey does expect us to believe it

David. Didn’t take them long to bring this tax in. An emergency tax on the wealthy would be a lot fairer.

Sorry Noddy. You already said that more or less :(

Reada, wealth tax = very popular.
Sadly also = capital flight :(

Jim. Fines for flight of capital = happy days!

Réada, do you think we live in splendid isolation? Fines for the withdrawal of cash from the the jurisdiction contradicts EU laws on the free movement of Capital.

It also sends a very poor signal to potential investors.

And getting back to the original point, it was under FF that the Irish people were committed to a property tax under the terms of the EU/IMF bailout. FG are simply carrying out obligations imposed on them by a previous regime.

@ Jim, I sorry I don’t understand your point? If we tax the wealthy they will move their unproductive untaxed capital out of the country, so what? Its not doing the 99% of the rest of the States citizens any good as is, Im up for taking the chance …… that is until a more progressive system can be implemented.

Ah BJ don’t stamp on my idealist heart :(

No, capital won’t ‘fly’ out of the country. The tax won’t be on liquid assets, but rather on wealth, as in properties worth over a million euro, etc. There would be no sense to fly, as for the rich, this tax, while annoying, would not be reason enough to pack up and move out. What rich person, in their right mind, would chose to sell their property in the current market, where they would be lucky to get half its value, when by paying a small tax (for them) they can enjoy the fruits of their luxury, and take a massive financial hit?
ANd it wouldn’t affect investment, because it need not apply to comercial property. And our corporation tax ought to be kept low.
The fact is, the wealthy are more politically active than the poor, therefore, the government thinks that it can hit the poor, because they won’t be hit back at the polls (or referendums). But we must show them we will not submit to an unfair tax, and civil disobedience like refusing to pay will show us this is an unfair tax too far.

O and @ David “jurist ignorantaia est cum jus nostrus ignoramus” : it is ignorance of the law when we do not know our own rights: SF and a some of the independents are the only ones representing the wishes of the people at the moment.

@Meabh ” They say the popular thing to get the public on side knowing they really have no say or have any important decisions to make” Exactly what Fine Gael and Labour did except now they have the say, and they lied!

decent human values is standing against injustice in any form. I think you will see they have, in contrast to other parties, a good track record in this department.

Wouldn’t be worth putting them into jail and giving them all that free publicity. Think of all the friends they already have in there. Just put a charge on their properties and their children will have to pay

These people are paid by the state. Simply deduct it from their salaries if they refuse to pay.

God love you if you look to the Dáil for example. It’s not too often you’ll find it. This departure makes a refreshing change.

I actually found Mick Wallace’s post budget speech to be the most moving. He acknowledged our human frailties of looking after our own first but also our human aspirations of wanting fairness for the disadvantaged in our society. Funny how a “capitalists” speech touched my socialist heart. Love when that happens!

Mick Wallace ! One of the greatest property speculators of the South West of Ireland ?!!!

Talk about not seeing the woods from the trees!

To tell you the truth BJ I’m a socialist but a humanist first. My faith in god may be low but my faith in the human spirit was never higher. I don’t label people in my heart. Think there’s good in all of us

Ehh, Farnan, you may be interested to listen to hear what they are actually ‘shouting’…it seems to speak a lot more truth than the ‘civilised’ backbenchers who keep mum because of the party whip system.And they need to shout if they are to be heard, because they are constantly being heckled and booed by the government benches who are unwilling to hear the truth and have their pre-election lies hurled back at them.
Oh, and by the way BJ, I didn’t do geography, but I used to think Wexford was in the South-East? When did it change?

Ah now Ryan. Once Sinn Féin is mentioned geography goes out the window. They think Donegal is in the south. :-)

@ BJ, I think you’ll find Mick Wallace is in the south east not the south west, not the only thing your getting your directions and ponts of view mixed up on me thinks!

Seventeen

Exactly

Ok Pat, i’ll bite.
I did, why do u ask?

I did too. Always do

I have never failed to voted. I returned home for the last election to vote. Whats your point?

I don’t think so Rosie. He said on newstalk this morning that the charge doesn’t apply to him.
We can take it from that, that he doesn’t own a house in the Republic.

Does he not have a holiday home in donegal. Think the house in Louth is rented.

If opposing unjust taxes, opposing the destruction of our public service, opposing the impoverishment of our people through the payments to foolish bondholders and representing the mood of the general public is “buying political capital” then all I ask is where do I pay to buy more of this?

Well it’s going very cheap Glyn, so knock yourself out.

FF didn’t let any party gain entrance to the Dail, methinks it was the people who voted for them.
Cavan/Monaghan have had O’Caolain now for a decade and he’s a dutiful loyal servant for the two counties

Every TD, senater, and councillor should have a marked register off electors from the last general election. Those who voted should get first preference towards help.

Some of this 40% who “did not bother to vote” made a very deliberate choice not to vote. The rationale being that by participating, you are giving the system the appearance of being your representative. Thus you agree to it’s rules, so you are bound by them.

Personally, I choose to vote, but am reluctant to judge those who don’t.

Anyway, its a bit off topic.

We voted in a government based on their promises of what they would do when in power. Since those promises have turned out to be a litany of lies, what we have hardly qualifies for democracy (i.e. the will of the citizens). IMO, those who didn’t bother to vote are most likely indifferent to politics, and so are hardly likely to be interested in commenting on a site like The Journal.

+1 on Joseph’s comment too.

Pat, i was saying my comment was a bit off the topic, not yours.

If i may be a bit cheeky tho,,
u clearly have voted and ur sure doing a fair bit of cribbing urself