I don’t think he can. He’s drank the casino-capitalist koolaid!

that’s exactly it Mel, our banks were surly wreckless, but the now infamous senior bond holders are the European banks who were just as wreckless as the likes of Anglo, I belive deutche bank was into Anglo to the tune of 40billion. so had we let Anglo fold the German taxpayer would have had to fill that hole! the entire European banking system is at fault, and although we were well up their with the biggest offenders and bank could have refused finance. The debt is simply to large for any sovereign to deal with. Sooner the likes of the ECB deals with it the better. the euro losing value at the moment is probably the best thing for the eurozone. cheaper exports = more exports…

After we joined the Euro we discovered the cocaine type hit that overnight interest rates could give us by borrowing from European banks. There were Irish Companies and individuals a plenty to take advantage. After all the Banks were unlikely to have borrowed all that money simply to hoard it. Because the Spanish German and French banks were the largest within the Eurozone then proportionately they lent the most. God help them for believing they were dealing with people of integrity or honesty either then or now. We might say they were foolish but if that is the basis for you to say that we shouldn’t repay the monies then your morality needs to be questioned and you merely prove my point. The Celtic Tiger was a lie and we happily went along with it and regularly threw it back in the faces of our European colleagues. I recall the regular headlines which boasted we were wealthier as Nation than Germany and France and if only we weren’t beaten into second place by Luxembourg.nLets start to behave ourselves and avoid becoming as dishonest as Greece.n

Mark,

None of that changes the fact that German, French and other capitalists gambled on Ireland and lost. Nobody forced them to do that, and many people warned that certain Irish banks were exposed because they had almost all their eggs in the property basket. You take a risk and lose, that’s called tough luck. It happens.

Also, what’s all this ‘we’ business? You think Irish people all equally ‘went along’ with the ‘Celtic Tiger’? Some did well out of it, others did not. Let’s be honest about that.

Also Mark, with respect, we have to keep in mind that these are not the debts of the Irish public, yet we are paying for them in a very real sense (ie health and education cuts).

Why didn’t we just let Anglo go bust? Why did the Irish people owe it to German capitalists (for example) to underwrite their bad gambles? I don’t get it.

Mark:
“We might say they were foolish but if that is the basis for you to say that we shouldn’t repay the monies then your morality needs to be questioned and you merely prove my point. The Celtic Tiger was a lie and we happily went along with it and regularly threw it back in the faces of our European colleagues. ”

I have asked you this question before and you didnt think it warranted a response…
I personally did not party… 30% unemployment for under 25′s.. how many of them partied..
You may have partied, you said it yourself in your comment that you did. So why don’t you pay off your debts and leave the rest of us alone.

Why do the German people pay for Irish capitalists? Remove the nationality tags from the above posts and you’re left with people and capitalists, and suddenly the posts make a lot more sense. Nationalism only has value if it brings sOmething positive to the table, and not as a McGuffin to stoke up division and hatred..

Well said John…. Best post so far :)

I don’t believe that Angela Merkel faces an electorate outside of Germany . One of the good things about the current German Leadership is her complete integrity and unwillingness to permit fellow Member States accept financial support under solemn written undertakings and then try to weasel out of the arrangements. Monies borrowed from fellow Europeans belong to fellow Europeans. Why should the Greeks be allowed to thieve on such a grand scale!

If “Monies borrowed from fellow Europeans belong to fellow Europeans” how come you support a government that continues to allow Irish taxpayers to be on the hook for european banking debt instead of insisting on burden sharing?

TooTrue

Good question. But why should the ‘burden’ be ‘shared’? If you make a gamble, you pay the price, surely?

Totally agree. But I’m not the one firing off the bumpersticker soundbites that don’t hold up to basic scrutiny.

She is the new Chanc. Bruning. Obsessed with austerity and refusing to accept that it destroys growth, business and future growth potential.

Germany wants to sell to the rest of the world, refuses to deal with debt under normal rules, or in the interests of the Euro or wider economy. This will blow back on their own economy, but when it does, the rules will be changed and a serious attempt to resolve this crisis will be made. It will be too late then for much of the south, such as Italy, Spain, Greece etc.

Germany wants all the fun of Euro marriage but is not willing to take the pain as well. Germany has to balance its economy with Europe as well or the Euro has no future.

Erm, democratic republics don’t have ‘em…

She just needs to get past autumn 2013, and then she might be right if she thinks thus. Her approval rating has effectively doubled over a week. It’s not her own choice that suddenly there’s more flexibility on the table, that’s coming from the pressure her own party is putting on her. They don’t have anyone yet that’s really to take over, and neither does the opposition, so keeping the current boat afloat by backing down on unpopular policies will be the name of the game for a while yet. Expect decriminalisation of cannabis to be touted about a few more times in the near future..

Looks like it sofar

Mark,

“I should add that Sinn Fein even supported the vote”
That is totally incorrect. SF rejected the final Bill, once FF/FFg included paying the Bondholders was included. Did you not know that? Or are you trying to lay the blame at SFs door for the work of FF/FFG?

Lastly, last week FFg/Labour paid 1.1 billion euro to unsecured bondholders. This 1.1 billion was NOT part of any bill put through the Dail, it did not fall under the Bank Guarantee bill…. Just wondering if you knew that also?

Cal is, of course, correct. Sinn Fein withdrew support once the terms were widened and facts became known. This was prior to the official vote.

Can we not have another democratic vote on it?