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Dublin: 5 °C Friday 24 May, 2013

‘Tens of thousands’ of household charge warning letters sent in error

The agency responsible for administering and collecting the charge says that householders who have received a letter but have paid the charge should contact them.

Image: Images of Money via Flickr/Creative Commons

TENS OF THOUSANDS of letters warning householders of their need to pay the household charge despite them having already paid it may have been sent in error, the Local Government Management Agency (LGMA) has admitted.

Homeowners have been complaining in their thousands in recent weeks of having received letters warning them of the need to pay the controversial €100 tax despite having already paid it.

In the latest letters sent last week, householders were warned that they faced a payment of €127 including penalties and interest but some of those who have received letters have already paid, the LGMA – the agency responsible for administering and collecting the tax – said.

On RTÉ’s Morning Ireland, the chief executive of the LGMA, Paul McSweeney, said: “We don’t know how many but we know certainly from the records that we have in our own contact centre that two thirds of the calls we’re getting in are relating to people who have already paid.”

He later admitted it could be ‘tens of thousands’ of people and explained that the problems had arisen from trying to match data from various sources which had entered names and addresses in different ways or with errors such as not using post codes.

McSweeney explained: “We are taking data sets that were never intended to be matched and are trying to use those as a method of creating the property database.

“These things are unfortunately happening and what we don’t want to do is start sending letters to people who shouldn’t be getting it. That’s not our intention, we don’t want to send them another letter but what we are asking for is the co-operation of the public.”

He said that any household who has received a letter in error should contact the agency: “If you have received a letter in error, tell us. We will change things.”

Read: Late payment penalties for household charge going up by €127

Property Tax: Where do the political parties stand?

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Comments (55 Comments)

  • In other words they are sending them out randomly in the hope that they reach a few who haven’t paid in the hope of scaring them into paying!

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  • How much did that cost?

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  • I listened to this interview in absolute gobsmacked disbelief. Not only are people getting these letters who have already paid, but the onus is on those people to contact the agency to inform them of their error, otherwise they could be fined! It’s like having Fianna Fáil running this country all over again.

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    • Seriously, think about it. Do you honestly think they are going to fine someone who’s already paid the charge just because they didn’t tell them they already paid?
      Let them waste money sending letters. Just sit back and laugh at their stupidity.

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    • Una Dev 25/10/12 #

      They cannot fine them because their case would be thrown out and the LGMA would foot the bill for failed prosecutions. I encourage people not to respond because it will cost the LGMA and this will also slow them down.

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    • I would say to Damien not to laugh at them spending money sending out these letters. It is your money they are using to send the letters. If it was their own money it might be funny.

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  • Declan 25/10/12 #

    Postage, Printing, Admin, Bad PR, Follow up Admin costs, environment waste, etc. Waste Waste & more waste. Is it not any wonder people don’t want to pay this household charge when the majority of our 100 euro charge goes on funding admin errors in the public sector where accountability does not exist in expensive cock ups such as this!

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  • I got my first reminder letter during the week apparently i owe 127 euro, still not paying it though.

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    • If you read the first line of the letter it says you “may be liable”. I’m waiting for the letter that says “you ARE liable”. No point wasting money until they’re sure! Hang in. there!

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  • Any chance we can see a picture of phil hogan in the post room? Just for a laugh. We haven’t seen it ages! Go on, go on go on!

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  • Who is their data analyst? The mistake is shockingly incompetent but the fact they can’t even analyze who got the letter who shouldn’t have is more concerning. I mean they only have two data sets. Those who paid and those who didn’t.

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  • Hats to to Gavin Jennings on that interview, he nailed him to the wall. A shambles.

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  • €0.55 X how much?!

    So potentially all the tax that a few people pay in a year is now wasted and no one will lose their job. AAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHH

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  • Surely the agency should be bearing the cost of this mess ! This is cringe stuff ! I have heard children playing board games with more ability and integrity than many of agencys contracted by our government ! Maybe these guys should be thought how to play that new monopoly game as part of their training process ….

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  • Red Ed 25/10/12 #

    What’s stopping a Defense of “I paid it you should have it on record check it out” and then because of their already proven faulty system and incompetence they will be afraid to test it in court

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  • They just want to get you on their database as they are completely clueless to who has paid and who owes what LOL…stupid little sheep.

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  • i havent paid or got a letter off them but if i had paid and got this letter i would ignore it and let them take me to court

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  • So I wonder what data set they tried to match that doesn’t have a PPS number!!!! It should be straight forward to match data using the unique identifier which was requested when making the payment. I reckon they tried to match the data against the ESB records or else they have just realised the data they currently have from all the other agencies is inaccurate.

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  • mister 25/10/12 #

    And these are the people who are going to be spending/allocating the revenue once they get it??? Such efficiency really inspires confidence…

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    • No. The Councils will decide how to allocate/spend the monies.

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    • The accounting entries for that part will be simple. They’ll be the same as every other tax receipt the Irish govt receives these days. And they are:

      DR: Cash at Bank account (with the cash received from household charges)
      CR: Black Hole account (to shovel as much money as possible into the bottomless pit of state guaranteed bank debt to keep troika happy so they’ll keep lending us more money so we can get even further into debt and making us have to shovel even faster)

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  • This makes me so angry. Imagine getting a demand letter when you have paid it. How can they get this wrong? Inefficient and inexcusable.

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  • these incompetents make a mess of simple job again and want us to spend our time doing their job for them. F em.

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  • Shambolic

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  • I suspect another area that the choke park deal has shown improvements in….
    o hang on….!!

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  • This happened to us and the letter only included a number you have to PAY TO CALL, to sort it out only of course no one answers the phone, the line is always busy. Thankfully, the letter also included my County Council number which at first, just kept directly me to the pay to call number someplace in Dublin. I eventually got a human being, whom the first time sent me back to the number but on a return call got me another human being. This person tried to tell me that “Dublin wasn’t answering because their phones were ringing too much,” I then said “so why are they sending out bills to people saying they owe money and late fees to people who have already paid?” (I can understand the occasional error, enough to keep “phones ringing off the hook” is sheer laziness). I then asked if I could simply mail copies of my payment forms and was told “well that really won’t work because they need other information from that cover letter” (in other words “no”). But, before I could ask if a letter from my solicitor would do it, she offer to look up the information herself, discovered that we had paid and said the Country would send a notice to the office that sent the letter. This all happened yesterday, so no idea if it worked or not; but I hope it did. This is sheer madness and a total waste of taxpayer money, my guess is that is it going to cost a huge portion of the money they did manage to collect just to sort this out. Although I also suspect they may get double payments from a number of elderly and fragile people who may not be clear about what is happening and just pay a second time. I am very angry about all this – Melodi

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  • clueless halfwits

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  • Aurfur 25/10/12 #

    We had two letters in the same envelope today to my wife and self demanding 127 euro which includes penalties. So we log on to our account and get the details of our payment being made to our address in my wife’s name as legally required.

    Page 111 on aertel quotes Mc Sweeney as saying if householders do not notify the agency, they will receive a second letter and “technically”could face a penalty.

    Surely paying in the first place is notification of payment especially when given a reference number!
    How can a person having paid, face a penalty for the inefficiency of the agency collecting?
    Is there a regulator I can complain to about the wasted time spent by ourselves?

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  • Cost of letters will be more than what they will make from the household charge

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  • Reg 25/10/12 #

    A lot of this is down to the micky mouse way this country has been run for the last 90 years. In many instances people just made up their own addresses over the years. You have country areas where houses are neither named or numbered and it is down to the knowledge of local postmen that anything gets delivered. Add to this that postcodes have not been introduced and this is the result.

    All you get here is people winging about the inefficiencies of the system when they are trying to get a proper database up and running.

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  • Maybe the data used is from PRAI

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  • If everyone had just paid it there wouldn’t have been a need for any letters at all.

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