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LESS THAN HALF of people think that current property prices reflect good value, according to a new poll of consumer’s perceptions of the property market.
The survey also found that the vast majority of respondents believe property prices will continue to fall over the next year.
The Daft.ie Consumer Attitudes Survey reported that availability of mortgage credit is the single most important factor which respondents believed will affect house prices over the coming year, ahead of economic growth and trends in unemployment.
The survey was conducted between 20 December 2011 and 9 January 2012 and was completed by 2,058 people online.
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The poll found just over 43 per cent of people believe that house prices nationally will fall by between 1 per cent and 15 per cent over the next 12 months. 13. 8 per cent of people believe prices will fall by between 15 and 20 per cent while 9 per cent believe prices will drop by at least 20 per cent.
Just over 45 per cent of respondents said that property prices nationally represented good value compared with 54.7 per cent who said that they did not.
The single biggest reason cited for deferring property purchase was the belief that property prices will fall further in future. This came ahead of the need to save for a deposit and an inability to get a mortgage.
The survey was the first time that property website Daft.ie has measured consumer perception of the property market and their purchasing intentions.
The vast majority (55.5 per cent) of respondents were renters while just under 27 per cent were owner-occupiers. 9.8 per cent of respondents were living with their parents.
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This is a demonstration of the lack of accountability that we have in this country (no pun intended). Its nobodies fault (a nudge is as good as a wink) the system has a glitch and all of that bullshit. Typical of the corrupt bureaucrats in this country : “keep your mouth shut and you’ll get promoted”.
Unfortunately this is the type of public service you get when peoples jobs are so protected that accountability doesn’t matter one bit. There is no sense of loyalty to either the job or the people being served. The rights of the customer- Joe public, will never come before the rights of the public servant whose sole aim is to do a days work for a days pay. Without seeming to tar all public servants with the one brush maybe it is time to weed out the self serving management and the culture they endorse and also the heavy hand of unions whose contribution has stymied any sense of much needed change, no matter what they try to claim otherwise. This goes for semi state companies too.
I don’t know how Willy can keep repeating that it was just a mistake. When you are warned about it about 10 times and do nothing, it is no longer something which can be described as a mistake. When the scale is finally realised by someone vaguely appropriate and they don’t run it up the chain for another 10 days, it is not a mistake. It is people not giving a damn and not doing their job.
Fire the entire department of finance and put the rest of the civil service on the minimum wage! Why the big witch hunt? We are all prone to error. It is human after all. I am sick of listening to media morons calling for people to lose their livelihoods. No one died.
To be honest it’s not the actual accounting mistake that is the issue here it’s the fact that people knew about this for some time but nobody did anything about it. But also that those of importance who did eventually know failed to prioritise the issue which had some impact on our GDP and our international reputation.
Its just another notch in the bedpost of failed accountability in the civil service by senior management and probably one of the joes will get the blame. Can you imagine if someone in PWC or even your local small accountant did something similar on the accounting level and also kept the issue hidden for months?
I’m not advocating anyone getting fired however as a member of the public I would like to see some action been taken against people (not necessarily named) as proof that the dept take these issues seriously and some disinclination action is taken as a means of highlighting the importance of good governance within our government departments.
Pardon the pun here but this main issue with this is lack of accountability. If there are no actions taken as a result of this huge “cock up” then there will be no incentive for these civil servants to ensure that there are no other mistakes made. There does not seem to be any reproductions for any mistakes made in the public or civil service, if this happened in the private sector heads would roll.
it’s just waffle for the media, he knows that nobody will be brought to account, bit of an enquiry and put it down to sysyems failure. which by the way Mr Noonan has already declared was the problem
Everyone agrees that anyone can make a mistake and so we rightly focus on why didn’t the various individuals involved come clean with their superiors.
When every issue gets blown up into a life or death situation, when we insist on people’s heads rolling and we clamber to have multiple reviews after the fact, don’t be surprised if people act defensively.
Early in my career I made a major error. It wasn’t €3.6bn but it felt like it in the context of the responsibility that I had at that time. My boss took me aside – highlighted the error, told me of the seriousness and got me to reflect on how it happened. He did two other things – he told me that in his department no-one was ashamed of admitting to making a mistake and so colleagues help each other from doing so. Secondly, he took full responsibility for the mistake himself even though it impacted upon his career in the short term I felt bad and never let that mistake happen ever again. BTW, he was a ‘civil servant’.
I’m sure that if your bank “mislaid” a large amount of your money for nearly a year you wouldn’t take the same attitude! The problem with the civil service is the lack of accountability that is present in the private sector. I once had to lodge a check for €2 million for a company that I worked for that went “missing” due to a cock up by the bank that I lodged it in. I spent a whole day on the phone and in the bank tracking it down and you can be sure that my accounting dept didn’t just sit on their collective arse’s and take the attitude “shure no on died”. An example has to be made here that people need to realize that the days of a job for life with no accountability in the civil service are over. If there was gross negligence or indifference in this case then people should be severely sanctioned.
The same response can be taken using ” no one died” when it comes to White collar crime also. How many people indirectly die as a result of mis management of money. Ask yourself that the next time someone you love is on a hospital trolley or on a list for cancer treatment. At the very least we want accountability and action to insure mistake does not happen again.the fear of losing your job may of compounded the problem put sweeping the issue under the carpet serves no purpose. The delay in dealing with the mistake is a bigger issue, one can assume 3.6 billion extra expense meant that amount borrowed with interest rate over 10 day period equals large loss at inaction, but open to correction on that.
It’s not just the mistake in accounting. It’s not just that no one did anything about it. It’s the whole indolent insulting couldn’t care less attitude of the Dept of Finance at the Public Accounts Committee hearing. The arrogance was simply breathtaking. This isn’t immoral it’s amoral. Their sense of entitlement has blinded them from any comprehension between right and wrong. God help poor old Ireland!
Willy. You’re getting very understanding. I like it. It wasn’t down the back of a sofa. It’s all just fake imaginary money anyway. Numbers on a page.
Btw put the dictionary away. I miss your old spelling.
Three comments giving out about the media and playing down the events themselves…you’re not an accountant in the department of finance are you?
I agree with previous posters. It’s not that the mistake occurred but with the way they dealt with it (or didn’t deal with it more to the point). Ignoring several warnings from other departments is not a slip…it’s either lazy or stupid.
Also the article was written by a politician not a journalist.
this is proof the senior and some junior civil servants are too powerful and bullet proof in their jobs, this cannot be pointed at poiticians, as ye can be more than sure if this was made known to the previous (or even present) ministers they would have made political hay, imagine the kudos fianna fail could gain by being 3.6bill less in debt pre election, or the points fine gael could have scored by finding it when they arrived in office. We need to make these highly paid monday to friday 36.5 hour week civil servants fully acountable for their jobs,
The majority of those I know working in the public service work hard and get upset when these kind of incidents are brushed under the carpet. Lack of accountability usually involves the upper level management of the public service closing ranks and looking after each other, which usually leaves the majority of the public service tarnished by the actions of the few.
People don’t “have to die” to be sacked from their job but perhaps that poster willie just doesn’t understand that an employers responsibility is not to excuse their employees mistakes and employees gross incompetence shouldn’t be ignored simply because “it’s their livelihood”!
If they were worried about losing their jobs this would of been cleared up the moment it was highlighted.
The government could do worse then make it mandatory for everybody in dept of finance to require an accountancy degree or something on those lines. All facts and figures should be double checked only by people with PhDs in accountancy (or whatever is the highest accolade possible) and a manager should be the one where the axe falls on if gross mistakes are made. This is the running of a country, not a coffee shop. It was €3600 million, not €3.60!
I’ve been impressed with some of the different ways this government has approached things
I used to deal with a few large Irish grocery chains and in the staff area there used to be a list every day of cash register reconciliation. Each cashier had a number and beside it the figure of whether they were up or down on their end of shift transactions. If they were out by a certain amount (€10 on average) either way, they had to explain the discrepancy. Too many mistakes and they were sanctioned up to the point of dismissal. I was the same in some of the jobs where I had to collect cash as well. No one wants to see someone lose their job but there comes a time when the massive mistake or negligence outweighs the impact on the individual. If nothing is done about this it gives carte blanche to the rest of the civil service to rest on their laurels.
I find it very diffucult to understand when I see ordinary Irish people putting down different sections of the labour force (Public/Private sectors). As a public servant I would agree that there needs to be more accountability for the spending of public money & people in the public/civil departments should not be “protected” from errors made which in the private sector would lead to thier dismissal. However I think the private sector should also realise that the current crisis has been caused by the private sector (banks/developers) and that the Government of this country has decided that this dept should be shared by all while allowing certain people (banks/developers) to hold onto the reins of profitable assets. Calling for the dismissal of all the people in the Dept of Finance is akin to calling for the dismissal of all Doctors because one removed the wrong limb. It is my own opinion that most public/civil servants are doing thier best for the public that they can but those in contact with the public are not the people who dictate policy and therefore change is slow.
“the current crisis was created by the private sector” Where did you read this Brian?
The fact is this crisis happened as a result of policies pursued under previous governments which made Irelands property bubble the largest in history.
“Careless” Cardiff was at the helm in the Dept of finance while all this was going on. Remember that Pat Neary (worst banking regulator in history) reported to “careless”.
This latest f*ck up is only one more in a long catalogue of the DoF. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–2011_Irish_financial_crisis
This article is complete sensationalist. The writer explains the nature of the accounting error and how it happened. But then implies that the finance department could have as easily made an error in the opposite direction and leave the country owing €3.6 billion more than we thought. This is not the case. It would require a completely different set of errors/circumstances!! This is nothing more than someone trying to write an interesting article and twisting the facts and insinuating the possibility of a different outcome to do so. Boring!
Since the party for which Eoghan Murphy is a TD is also the party of government, I’m sure we can all expect immediate action to introduce reform……and that if they don’t Eoghan’s principles will force his resignation from the party.
If this guy at the top Mr Cardiff was not throwing his eye over the accounts with entries as large as this in them, will someone please tell me what it is he does all day, the petty cash????
These ‘heads must roll’ witch hunt statements are idiotic, especially when they come from a self-serving politician because you can be sure that if someone was fired it would probably be a low level person two grades below where the responsibility should really lay. You can be sure that the civil service management will not be held to account and this incident is unlikely to lead to any change in their work practices.
If a government department can make such a massive error, it’s easy to see how major banks can make errors also. As an Irish person I think we should all forgive the banks for all the problems they have caused us and go back to the way things were. I mean if we forget they lost billions of euros maybe the other banks they owe money or debt too will forget as well I mean 3.6 billion here 22.2 billion there it’s all just figures on a accounting sheet. I think U2 should forget about the Drop the debt campaign and start a forget the debt campaign instead…… If we all forget it will all go away!!! Remember remember forgetful November.
In general, there is a complete lack of accountability in the civil service and this has been to the detriment of many good hard working people in there. When you don’t have accountability you are insulated and the organisation moves at the pace of the slowest and laziest.
Plus it seems that the civil servant that presided over this fiasco seems to be getting a promotion. A resignation is called for here.
Willy Pearse says nobody dies and that appears to be true, However, we have been experiencing cut backs in other state departments including Health. If we have this type of major blunder then there are probably lesser ones right down the chain and not just involving finances.
Look at the fiasco over that young girl who couldn’t be evacuated to London for a transplant due to flawed protocols overseen by well paid people. Nice big detailed report. Any disciplinary action taken? Anybody take apologise personally other than the Minister?
There is obviously no accountability in the finance department. If Mr Cardiff was working in the real world he would be fired immediately, unfortunately this guy is getting even more promotion and a lovely fat pension at the end of it, bring on the revolution !!!!!!!!!
Cardiff was the most arrogant person I have seen on TV. Do the civil servants all behave like this? And why is he being promoted to Europe – his co- workers in Europe deserve better. He won’t resign so he should be fired. Who appointed him to the job in Europe? I bet he is a labour supporter and R Quinn endorsed his appointment. Champaign socialists. I hope somebody wakes up our elected representitives as we are going in the wrong direction with this government. The last crown bankrupt us and this lot are making it worse.
Jaysus willy. They’re baying for your blood. When are we, collectively, going to realise that the whole economic thing is a farce? Numbers on a page. Money borrowed to pay back banks? If it wasn’t so sad I’d be splitting my sided laughing. Instead I just feel like crying…
I find it hard to understand the hype and hoopla surrounding this issue. It is not an accounting error, it is areporting error. The amount in question was recognisecd in the books of NTMA as a debt owed by itself and an asset due to it by the Housing Finance Agency i.e. net sum Zero. It was recognised in the Books of the HFA as a debt due to the original lender. So far so good. The problem is the odd way in which National Debt is calculated. You have to calculate to total amount of borrowings by all State Departments and certain State Agencies, ignoring any corresponding assets. Readers may recall that in the good old days ( before 2008) our National Debt calculation had to exclude the Natioal Pension Fund.
The big issue is not the error, because that changes nothing, but the attitude of the Department of Finance in ignoring at least 4 separate attempts to have them correct it!!!
When “Stupid Mistakes ” like this happen it is often a result of creative bookkeeping that got a bit too creative !
It is not good to fire somebody for making a mistake but if somebody is being a bit too creative where they should not they they should be given a more creative job ! – like designing posters for the London Olympics ( God knows they need it) or re-arranging folders in the front office.
Quote from a clued up lorry driver that I hitched a lift from years ago …… ” Me mudder said …. Son be clever ! Look Stupid !………”
Seriously people . This was not a simple accounting error , more like a shadow banking system!!! Funny how this news came out the same day the Anglo unsecured bonds were paid off dont you think !!! WAKE UP!!!
I Have a nice job for Mr Cardiff Sweeping the streets of Dublin see how he like the wages and Pension from this Job. This is the Problem with those People the do not Care. But the Should be made care
Knowing our government whoever made the mistake will get a golden handshake and a boosted pension.
That aside, it was a mixture of the public and private sector that’s led us to this juncture. The regulator of the banks,the elected officials fuelled the property bubble and social partnership have alot to do with the state of our economy. What is funny is that our previous regulator may very well of been complicate in illegal share price manipulation with his “don the green jersey” antics.
It’s obvious the banks lied through their teeth and screwed us all but nobody cared while the going was good.
Is it me ? or do the sums add up too well ……. Somebody needs to pay a huge Bill with money he does not have and his friends do not want to cough up ……. .Suddenly he finds ? the cash in his wallet … problem solved …
His friends better start checking their wallets …….. because I suspect they might be a lot lighter suddenly …
@ willy.They’re baying for your blood. When are we, collectively, going to realise that the whole economic thing is a farce. Numbers on a page. Money borrowed to pay back banks? If it wasn’t so sad I’d be splitting my sided laughing. Instead I just feel like crying.
The Chinese General Sun Tzu had an answer for this 2,000 years ago which is very apt considering the headline of the article! :-) http://journeyeast.tripod.com/suntzu.html
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