Time to get out of the euro, reform our banks and sack politians and start from scratch..

I can’t ever see this government having the backbone to say no, no further. They have shown no courage to date,

Which agreement are you talking about? The one the Irish government float from time to time that doesn’t have any EU-level documentation, or the possible agreement that has been consistently and reliably documented at the EU-level. Personally, I’d take this as a plea from the European big-wigs for the Irish and Greek governments to stop playing “silly beggars” and misrepresenting European decisions in order to make themselves the good guys, and the “evil foreigners” the villains. The only real chance of a bank-debt deal is to present a plan that leaves all EZ countries at a minimum of loss. Saying “we don’t want to pay, someone else should cover it” won’t cut it. Neither will “it’s not our debt”. No-one cares whose debt it should be, but, realistically, no country is going to put up their hand and say “sure, we’ll take it off your hands”. All that’s being said here is that we all need to get on the same page and stop playing Chinese whispers behind each others’ backs.

The European Parliament said “not another red cent?”. I must have missed that meeting. :-)

Or the estimated 50 Billion surrendering our fisheries areas has cost over the same period, not to mention the costs involved with complying with EU rules and regulation.

€30billion from the EU….. how much are we paying them back in criminal interest rates…etc for the governments bailout… €85billion approx!… as the saying goes…no such thing as a free lunch!

Kerry
The bank debt was incurred by mostly Irish borrowers defaulting…………and then the gang on these pages never stop telling the State to default again because it’s not our debt.
The reality is that our lack of regulation allowed our banks and our system to crash and there is nobody willing to clean up our mess. If you walk away from it you will never be forgiven by the markets as you won’t be considered trustworthy. This also happens at a personal level. Try defaulting on a credit card loan and then ten years later try getting a mortgage!

Paddy, as you say yourself the debt is private and should not have been converted into sovereign debt on the instructions of the ECB. This needs to be reversed and then the issue of the sovereign defaulting is removed. Though I’ve yet to come across a country that has defaulted in the past being refused money after that fact.

I’d say that feeling you are getting is right!

Kerry, think Argentina

Nah, he was speaking in Ireland so I saying what we want to hear, when he goes to Germany he will say what they want to hear, remember he is a politician

“should follow up” – not would or will – we already know they should – no news here – back to Old Mother Reilly so . . . . .

Jay
Does that not also apply to the foreign ministers who said that we wouldn’t get debt forgiveness?
Sause for the goose & all that…………

More of the same talk, no action. No faith in any of these politicians…

Yeah right!
Like we were going to get a bank deal for voting YES in the referendum………
Still waiting for that to happen………..
Another carrot to tempt the dead donkey.

@ Jay – not all politicians are as two-faced as our own…

That’s the most important part of the message, right there.

You’re right that is will be our fault.
Time we started to push the agenda a little.

But Nicholas why call it the TROIKA from day 1. Surely that was branding them all the same. I know they are different but it is us and them if you consider that THEY are calling the shots and WE (us) are paying for it.

sorry for spelling your name wrong.

@ Cheistopher – but the Troika is not Germany, or the EU, or any other institution that could mention. The troika are just the implementation of the bail-out agreement. They’re the guards, not the legislators. If you view the Troika as the all-encompassing Evil Empire, then you’ve already lost. Life isn’t Star Wars. There’s no Death Star to blow up and so remove all the problems of the universe.

@ Christopher – But why are “they” calling the shots and “we” are meekly steeping in line? Is it because “they” are nasty tyrants set on wiping the Irish of the face of the earth ( unlikely, there’s no benefit for anyone in that ), or is it because “we” gone to the table with nothing constructive or active? If “we’re” in the role of forelock-tugger, did “they” put us there, or did we put ourselves in that position despite it being unhelpful to all concerned. It’s all a bit like Ali G saying “is it cos I is black?” And everyone else being bemused and not sure how to point out the obvious. If we want a deal, we need to put together a package that is attractive to the other EZ countries. A prosperous Ireland would be a good thing not just for us, but for the EU. We need to present that with a means of getting there that will cause as little financial strain on the other countries as possible. If we don’t present a viable plan, we won’t get it. If we wait hand out for crumbs, all we’ll get is crumbs. If we don’t present ourselves as a reliable and progressively thinking country, an equal member state, we shouldn’t expect to be treated as one.

Nikolas,
I had written a nice piece complimenting your work.
Alas the Journo-police got to it first.

I presume its because we can offend everyone on the Journal except each other !

@ Jim – thank you. As for deleted comments, I don’t know much about that, I’m sure the editors have their reasons, but I’ve no idea what they are. They’re certainly not against, ahem, “heated” debate on the site…

Of course they’re the enemy! Them and those blood-drinking’ lizards! Don’t ye know nothin’?

Sure he’s mad for keeping promises and doing deals on debt and stuff.
No place for the likes of him around here!

Better buttered up then roasted..

Being buttered up is usually a prerequisite to being roasted! Well that’s what usually happens to my Sunday roast chicken! :)

And I believed them when they said that smearing my face with it would smooth those wrinkles away….

Always have a chuckle when somebody comments to remark on how hardly anyone will comment on a story.

Declan,
You don’t realise how things work on planet Journal.ie
German Politician says there should be no money for Ireland = comments of outrage & I told you so
German Politician says there should be money for Ireland = comments of cynicsm & doubt

Just the way it is here.

Talk is cheap. We are still waiting on them to live up to promises already made, and that is the actually the substance of what Schulz admitted today.

@ censored – what promises are you referring to? Did they make those promises or did people infer that they made such promises?

Nikolas, Not another red cent he said! ;)

I’m talking about the June meeting, and also about the promises of solidarity which are at the core of all European treaties:

“The other side of the coin is solidarity – if one family member gets into troubled waters, the others are called upon to offer a helping hand,” he told TDs.

I missed that meeting too! I was at another one :)

@ Censored – Have a look again at the official announcement from the June 29th discussions. There was no promise made at the EU-level that Ireland’s banking debt would retroactively come under any decision made regard splitting a country’s banking and sovereign debts. There were no broken promises, as there was no promise made. What there was was unfounded and irresponsible speculation by the Irish government of the “Give ‘em some good news, doesn’t matter if it’s fake, and let ‘em eat cake” variety. When speaking of solidarity, it was this type of behaviour that was being spoken out against, as it causes dissent and bitterness between nation-states. bad for the EU, good for Ireland’s leaders, as it means they pass the mantle of villain to someone else. The truth is, the pronouncements at the Eu-Level, while not encouraging, have always been consistant. They tend to be good at that, unlike our lot.