Don’t think there’s any way an interim injunction could be granted tomorrow, the balance of convenience has to tilt in favour of the protesters. As in, if they’re forced to pack up before the final determination of the matter, that’ll unduly prejudice their side in advance of their having a chance to make representations to the Court.

Will be a very, very interesting case …

Yes. We Irish have a reputation for being apathetic and useless – we can’t have a sustained act of protest, it makes me feel like I’m not caring enough – and I like to think I’m awesome, so we can’t have that. It offends my values or lack thereof as an armchair conservative.

WHY

WHY ????? @ Lorcan

Just because you dont take part in futile, baseless and directionless protest does not make you apathetic and lazy.The people of Ireland voted in this government, you don’t agree with the decision of the majority fair enough. We protested in the ballot box. That does not mean we are scared to protest we just choose to be realistic and not act like spoiled children who deny our responsabilities and i am proud of the way most of the Irish people are facing our current difficulties.
@ Bernadette the reasons WHY are:
It is illegal to “occupy”private property without permission and no matter what you are protseting , in a democracy, we obey laws.
I resent the occupy movement saying they represent me as part of the 99 percent, they do not represent anything I believe.
It is a pointless movement without any real goals.
It is made up of career protesters and leftie activists with divided aims.
The people of this country gave the government a mandate to follow the terms of the IMF agreement so the protest is not representing the majority.
it is tied to a global movement supported by the American Nazi party, Ku Klux Klan and other such distasteful groups which I do not want Ireland associated with.
The movement is providing no solutions, no alternatives to the “problems” they protest against and so it is just another pointless protest.
Is that enough reasons or do you want more?

Lorcan, you are an idiot. Please read up on the history of economic downturns and austerity. It does not work. It is pure right wing, corporatist ideology. If you notice both France & Germany(and Ireland while we’re at it) are held by center-right governments right now, which are often corporatist in nature.

Quietly doing as we’re told will not recover our economy in the best or most efficient way, or even at all. This isn’t some left wing conspiracy theory stuff – it’s just economics. You can’t keep taking money out of an economy and expect it to recover. Of course, the question is raised where we can get the money in the first place – and there are people out there with some answers. If you cared to actually attend tone of these camps and see the talks they have a lot of people there are well versed in economics and people do offer real alternatives.

There is a point to the protests, and a message. Most of the occupy camps have come out with an ultimatum and it tends to be roughly the same from camp to camp. Please read up on this before passing such judgement.

You are the apathetic Irish, whether you like to admit it or not. Your philosophy of just quietly getting on with it is actually viciously destructive. The occupy camps worldwide have already affected the flow of economic discussion from what cuts should be made to what cuts should we make. It has brought morality, ethics and reason back into political discussion whereas before we were fixed in the “No Alternative” mentality.

It HAS already achieved something. By getting any media attention at all, it achieved something.

What the fuck have you achieved? A bit of moaning about “Lefties” like they’re all stoners and rambling on about some Alex Jones conspiracy theory.

We protested in the ballot box? By voting in Fianna Fail’s clone? Give me a break. There is deeper reform here and if anything we should be protesting the morally bankrupt Merkozy

all right buddy take it handy! Firstly my central point was that they are breaking the law and should be removed we can discuss the reasoning behind the movement but that dosn’t change that fact.
I do totally disagree with the movement for the reasons I outlined above. I also totally disagree with socialism as an economic concept as it takes away any incentive to achieve and makes everyone poorer while capatilism increased the wage gap ut also the overall wage level but Im not bothering discussing this in detail with you we obviously disagree totally.
The most efficient way to deal with our crisis is to cut the current budget defecit, you cannot do that without taking money out of the economy, you cant spend more than u earn, is it ideal no but we hav to be practical. You mentioned alternatives but didnt give any examples. We are being bankrolled by the ECB and so must do what they say. We cant re enter the bond market how else will we get money, again not ideal but realistic.
On the case of right wing governments, Germanys is actually doin very well economically, and look at Sweden as an example of a country who has recently moved to right wing economic stance who are doing well. Not all right wing governments are effective but that will never be the case with any ideaoligy. Corruption is not a by-product of Capatilism it is a by-product of the human condition, we are flawed look at Communist regimes for an example of this.
The occupy movement is not supported by the public,(68% of americans say they actively opposeit) just ecause they have attracted media attention does not mean they achieved anything positive. Road accidents attract media attention are they positive(an extreme example I know but u get my point). From the website the only policy I can find of the movement is the removal of the IMF from the country. Again where will we get the money otherwise when we cant borrow on the bond market for at least a year.
Finally, just because you do not agree with result of the election does not mean a revoulution did not occure. The people were presented with Sinn Fein and the ULA’s stance on the IMF and the Coalitions stance..they voted overwhelmingly for the coalition. You do not have the support of the people/
Main point again It is illegal no matter what they stand for and calm down lad dont take life so seriously.

“The most efficient way to deal with our crisis is to cut the current budget defecit, you cannot do that without taking money out of the economy,”

No it isn’t. You need to create Jobs. That both solves the unemployment issue, and the deficit issue. You need to be creative.

” You mentioned alternatives but didnt give any examples.”

I’m not an economist. There are economists at these camps, and some of them have such examples. If we really went into detail, I could relay to you some ideas, but that will end up being a discussion of it’s own.

I would suggest you read up on what some of these people are actually saying. There are videos on Youtube of these talks.

“We are being bankrolled by the ECB and so must do what they say.”

Wow, what a whipped attitude. I mean seriously.

“On the case of right wing governments, Germanys is actually doin very well economically, and look at Sweden as an example of a country who has recently moved to right wing economic stance who are doing well. ”

Sweden are not “Right wing”. Their conservative government has maintained most of the left leaning policies, they’ve just streamlined it. They are more like true conservatives. It’s not too different in Germany. It can be hard to change the system drastically as soon as you’re voted in – but they’re now in a position where they can *hold other countries to ransom*.

Germany are not themselves necessarily doing what they demand from us. In fact, that’s part of the reason they’re doing better, economically.

“Corruption is not a by-product of Capatilism it is a by-product of the human condition, we are flawed look at Communist regimes for an example of this.”

Unregulated capitalism encourages capitalism. There have been no examples of pure capitalism or proper communism, however the more right leaning you get, generally, the shittier the country, in the western world. Sweden has a much better standard of living than the US on average.

“Finally, just because you do not agree with result of the election does not mean a revoulution did not occure.”

It didn’t. What changed, exactly?

“The most efficient way to deal with our crisis is to cut the current budget defecit, you cannot do that without taking money out of the economy,”

No it isn’t. You need to create Jobs. That both solves the unemployment issue, and the deficit issue. You need to be creative.

” You mentioned alternatives but didnt give any examples.”

I’m not an economist. There are economists at these camps, and some of them have such examples. If we really went into detail, I could relay to you some ideas, but that will end up being a discussion of it’s own.

I would suggest you read up on what some of these people are actually saying. There are videos on Youtube of these talks.

“We are being bankrolled by the ECB and so must do what they say.”

Wow, what a whipped attitude. I mean seriously.

“On the case of right wing governments, Germanys is actually doin very well economically, and look at Sweden as an example of a country who has recently moved to right wing economic stance who are doing well. ”

Sweden are not “Right wing”. Their conservative government has maintained most of the left leaning policies, they’ve just streamlined it. They are more like true conservatives. It’s not too different in Germany. It can be hard to change the system drastically as soon as you’re voted in – but they’re now in a position where they can *hold other countries to ransom*.

Germany are not themselves necessarily doing what they demand from us. In fact, that’s part of the reason they’re doing better, economically.

“Corruption is not a by-product of Capatilism it is a by-product of the human condition, we are flawed look at Communist regimes for an example of this.”

Unregulated capitalism encourages corruption. There have been no examples of pure capitalism or proper communism, however the more right leaning you get, generally, the shittier the country, in the western world. Sweden has a much better standard of living than the US on average.

“Finally, just because you do not agree with result of the election does not mean a revoulution did not occure.”

It didn’t. What changed, exactly?

So much I could say …. but I’m going to restrict myself.

The illegality of the protest is by no means a given. There’s a constitutionally enshrined right to freedom of expression and peaceful assembly, per 40 6. 1° – see below. It’s arguable that it is perfectly justified and legal, given the fact that the protest is taking place in an area with a public right of way, and that it’s causing minimal disruption or offence to public morals.

If you think Sweden’s success is down to a recent shift to the right and not at least 50 years of a much-vaunted “social model”, well then….

I’m starting to think that it’s the anti-protest crowd that are the lunatic fringe here, not Occupy.

Similar sentiments here Niall so much to say. O Sweden was just a quick example I agree that thats not the sole reason it has given a boost to growth though. Im not getting into a long discusion on the internet because its a waste of time. We disagree thats grand.(by the way I wouldn’t consider myself part of an anti-occupy movement I just find it pointless and it annoys me the way they act like they have full public support). Anyway I’m off to live my life!

Kinda thought you were jiving us all along Busting!

Don’t worry, I’m waaaay too superficial not to be taking the piss out of ye. Everybody is fair game in my book, even myself.

Noticed you were softening Busting.

Ah Shucks! He’s just an ole softie after all!!

The plaza is private property. Not until the bank complain and get injunction can the Gardai remove them. I ask, how is it private property when its the Central Bank of Ireland?

WHat they do is a joke. I’m sure it gives nice warm feeling inside, but majority of them have no idea what is the protest really about…

There was a circus inside there for long enough….

This is a classic response, pretty much textbook.

(a) Attack the protesters themselves – they’re junkies / hippies / students / dole scroungers / they have terrible hair / dress sense / questionable personal hygiene, yadda yadda.

Who cares? If you think that there isn’t a very serious problem here, then come out and say it. If there is, then protest is not only justified, but necessary.

(b) Sure it won’t do any good anyhow.

The only way to find that out is by protesting. If we see more of the likes of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myQSRLXGRqk

maybe cuts and unconditional support of the banks at the expense of the taxpayer won’t seem like such a soft option to our leaders.

I can tell you for sure what will “hardly make a difference”, that’s coming on websites complaining about the protesters.

I care Niall. I don’t mind my taxes being used to provide a lifeline to an unemployed person who wants to get back to work and is doing their best to make that happen. I greatly mind funding people who are more concerned it seems with squatting on private property and doing nothing useful. They’ve been there for a month. Nothing is going to change overnight and we have plenty of genuine unemployed to support. These people would do society a better service by putting their energy into getting a job and supporting themselves.

I woul have to dispute your contention that they’re “doing nothing useful”. They’re doing something very useful indeed. Like I say, if there are no protests, then cuts and more taxpayer pain will seem like a soft option to our leaders.

And I don’t see how spending time camping necessarily precludes jobseeking. Anyway, it’s not like they’re going to have interviews every day of the week with the way things are now, sadly.

Personally I’m more worried about paying to bail out bankers, bond holders and vultures. Apparently, we owe €320,000 or thereabouts each to overseas creditors. That’s a €320,000 that I don’t recall having been lodged to my account at any point, and that I don’t recall spending.

Try getting cash from one of theme so

Why would officials be scared of copycat campers… What are they going to do, shake their placards extra meaningfully?

WTF antoin, Occupy are many things, scary or intimidating ain’t one of them.

It might not seem threatening to you, but when guys land in from Frankfurt for meetings in the CB, they must wonder what will happen in Ireland if things get any worse. People camping outside a Central Bank is not something you see much in Northern Europe.

Jay-us the last thing I’d be talking about in a pub is the economy or the IMF: I’d be way to busy having a good time!

you obviously havent been in the foggy dew lately

Last time I checked you do not see the inside of a courtroom for bad decisions but you do for breaking the law.

Oaklane1, then perhaps the laws need to be revised. Though I am willing to bet there were laws broken here – and certain the regulator wasn’t doing his job.

Leigh, sounds like speculation, we should stick to facts

They don’t have one, cutbacks I believe..

do a Maggie thatcher on it, send in the horses first to break them apart then a few baton charges!

Three horses, I believe. Hardly a cavalry charge..

Mediation’s a pretty good idea I think , at the very least it should buy the protest a couple of weeks … if the court takes the view that the parties should go through the process before any hearing.

Mediation is usually used for commercial,family,contractual disputes etc.. Its called alternative dispute resolution.
What’s there to mediate? CB wants them to go, they want to stay.
I guess technically they are trespassing?

Prove the blatant corruption.

@oaklane1 Oh my apologies! I have it all wrong, sure FF were top notch, no brown envelopes, no dodgy planning, etc. Bankers were the hallmark of integrity also, Fitz & Co. topping the list. Lowry was another man of outstanding integrity. Sure NAMA was only set up for the laugh! And developers built the best houses in Europe with the utmost structural integrity, etc. & solely to enhance the environment. & the plethora of economists, journalist & academic scholars who have written about all of this are all hallucinating. (And Santa WILL come down your chimney this year! :-)

Doubt very much whether it’s the end – for one thing, the process of obtaining the final injunction could take weeks, possibly months, in the normal run of things. Where the money’s going to come from for the Occupy side to fight their corner remains to be seen, but if they can fund it this may well end up in the Supreme Court.

I actually think that this could end up being a PR coup for Occupy, if the Bank are seen to be treating them harshly and unreasonably.

But, I do think that some of the criticisms are valid – particularly when it comes to copycating OWS, and a certain elitism among some, not all, Occupiers. Would like to see Occupy reaching out and joining forces with the likes of the hospital protesters – it’s an obvious first step in creating a mass movement that’s uniquely focussed on Irish concerns, rather than the generic OWS agenda … granted, there’s a lot of overlap between the two.

Right on the money Niall and my exact feelings too, there’s a need for ODS and the like to reach out to certain anti-cuts groups. A perfect example would be the upcoming Spectacle of Defiance and Hope. There is no ‘one size fits all’ international protest, and the occupations have to adopt to their environment.

This is ALL new for everyone involved but, it’s been a real learning curve for a lot of
people. It’s excited some (the likes of those from the Real Democracy movement, including many migrants), bemused others (Ask the SWP!) and genuinely got Dubliners talking, which should be welcome.

I wonder if members of the travelling community were afforded that same right , when legislation that does not allow them to stop at roadsides and on public property . I think not !

You would have a point if travelers were standing up for a widespread public opinion other than for personal gain. You would think that the heavy handed approach by American law enforcement and the backlash that followed would be an example not to follow. What is the point of going in heavy handed if all it does is cause more people to show up?