TheJournal.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more »
Dublin: 9 °C Friday 24 May, 2013

Muslims accused of blasphemy after attack on Hindu temple in Pakistan

Sections of the country’s blasphemy laws carry life imprisonment or even the death penalty.

Hindus clean a temple after being attacked by a group of men in Karachi, Pakistan.
Hindus clean a temple after being attacked by a group of men in Karachi, Pakistan.
Image: Fareed Khan/AP/Press Association Images

PAKISTAN’S BLASPHEMY LAWS may be used to punish Muslims suspected of ransacking a Hindu temple, an intriguing twist for a country where harsh laws governing religious insults are primarily used against supposed offences to Islam, not minority faiths.

The blasphemy laws, sections of which carry the death penalty or life imprisonment, have drawn renewed international scrutiny this year after a young Christian girl in Islamabad was alleged to have desecrated the Muslim holy book, the Quran. A Muslim cleric now stands accused of fabricating evidence against the girl, who has been freed on bail and whose mental capacity has been questioned.

Police officer Mohammad Hanif said Sunday the anti-Hindu attack took place Sept. 21. The government had declared that day a national holiday — a “Day of Love for the Prophet” — and called for peaceful demonstrations against an anti-Islam film made in the US that has sparked protests throughout the Muslim world. Those rallies took a violent turn in Pakistan, and more than 20 people were killed.

Hanif said dozens of Muslims led by a cleric converged on the outskirts of Karachi in a Hindu neighbourhood commonly known as Hindu Goth. The protesters attacked the Sri Krishna Ram temple, broke religious statues, tore up a copy of the Bhagavad Gita, a Hindu scripture, and beat up the temple’s caretaker, Sindha Maharaj.

“The attackers broke the statues of (Hindu deities) Radha, Hanuman, Parwati and Krishna, and took away the decorative gold ornaments,” Maharaj said. “They also stormed my home and snatched the gold jewellery of my family, my daughters.”

Maharaj and other Hindu leaders turned to the police, who registered a case against the cleric and eight other Muslims. But none of the suspects had been found as of Sunday, police said.

Blasphemy law

Officials said the case against the attackers was registered under Section 295-A of the blasphemy laws, which covers the “outraging of religious feelings.” That section of the law can apply to any religion and carries a fine or up to 10 years imprisonment.

The Asian subcontinent’s British rulers originally framed blasphemy laws partly to prevent violence between Muslims and Hindus. Muslim-majority Pakistan was carved out of India in 1947, and under the military rule of Gen. Muhammad Zia ul-Haq, a fervent Islamist, the statutes covering blasphemy were toughened in the 1980s.

Area police chief Jaffer Baloch said authorities were simply considering the Hindus’ complaint under the relevant section of the law.

Islam’s Prophet Muhammad “teaches us to respect others’ religions so that ours shall also be respected,” he said. “Like us, Hindus have their own faith and religion and they do have sentiments for their Bhagavad and gods.”

Human rights activists say Pakistan’s blasphemy laws are too broad and vague, and are often used by people who are trying to settle scores with rivals or target religious minorities, who make up 5 percent of Pakistan’s 180 million people.

Although many Muslims are accused of insulting Muhammad or other acts deemed blasphemous, minorities are disproportionately represented among the defendants, rights groups say.

Hindus and Christians are among prominent minorities who fear the blasphemy laws. Also frequently blamed for blasphemy are Ahmadis, who consider themselves Muslims but are reviled as heretics by mainstream Muslims.

Pakistan is not known to have actually executed anyone for blasphemy, and while courts often set the accused free on technical grounds or other reasons, many extremists have killed people who were let go by judges.

Even speaking out against the blasphemy laws can put people in danger. Two prominent politicians, including the sole Christian member of the federal Cabinet, were assassinated in 2011 for urging reform of the law.

The politicians, Punjab province Gov. Salmaan Taseer and Minister for Minorities Shahbaz Bhatti, had spoken out in defense of Asia Bibi, a Christian sentenced to death in 2010 for allegedly insulting Islam’s Prophet Muhammad. Bibi, whose case prompted international criticism, is believed to be the first woman condemned to die under the statute and remains in prison.

Sensitivity

The laws retain broad support in Pakistan, where Islamic conservatism is on the rise alongside extremism and Muslims are highly sensitive about their faith. Taseer’s killer, for instance, was hailed as a hero in many quarters. Thousands of people rallied to support him, and lawyers showered him with rose petals.

Many human rights activists, partly out of their own security concerns, have tempered their demands: years ago, they used to call for the blasphemy laws’ repeal, but now they say the laws should be reformed to prevent misuse. Even leaders of minority religious groups have often said they support the law but simply do not want to see it abused.

Although there’s no sign that the weak civilian government plans to amend the law, the case of the Christian girl has brought some hope that sentiments about it may change. Even some Islamist clerics sympathized with the girl, whose age has been said to be 14 or younger and who may be developmentally disabled.

Witness claims that a Muslim cleric stashed pages of a Quran in the girl’s bag to make it seem as if she burned them have added to the sympathy for her. The cleric is accused of planting the evidence to push Christians out of the neighbourhood and is now being investigated for blasphemy himself. He denies any wrongdoing.

Read: Pakistan government rejects minister’s filmmaker bounty comments>

Read next:

Comments (51 Comments)

  • The 14 year old Christian girl accused of blasphemy is a Downes Syndrome kid. The kind of people who would frame her and accuse her of anything indictable by law, never mind the capital offence of “blasphemy”, ought to be stoned to death with wrenches and lump hammers.
    The vicious bloodthirsty self righteous hypocritical swines

    Reply
  • Muslims riot against alleged blasphemy, get hit with blasphemy charge. The irony is delicious.

    Reply
  • Stupid law. These dark agers should be prosecuted for riotous behaviour, criminal damage and assault, not blasphemy.

    Reply
  • A belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man !

    Reply
  • Religion should be consumed like alcohol, in small doses and in all its variety.

    Let noble thoughts come to us from every side.

    Reply
    • @ kevin Niazi no wonder you are the misguided one….you are so confused in your own self, like saying “Who cares what other part is with them?” shows how ignorant you are,and also are you asking a question or its your argument, very amature.

      Reply
  • Mjhint 01/10/12 #

    ” Religion poisons everything”

    Reply
  • So far as i can remember, there is not one word in the gospels in praise of intelligence. By Bertrand Russell

    Reply
  • 200 years from now children will be learn about a thing called religion which plagued humanity and prevented the development of reason and free thought for 3000 plus years.. shame really !!

    Reply
  • random 01/10/12 #

    Surely vandalism, assault and theft were the crimes committed here? Blasphemy is an imaginary crime against imaginary things, while the article describes actual people being hurt and their property stolen or destroyed.

    Reply
  • “The Christian’s Bible is a drug store. Its contents remain the same; but the medical practice changes…. The world has corrected the Bible. The church never corrects it; and also never fails to drop in at the tail of the procession — and take the credit of the correction. During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. the Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after eight hundred years, gathered up its halters, thumb-screws, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood.
    Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry…. There are no witches. The witch text remains; only the practice has changed. Hell fire is gone, but the text remains. Infant damnation is gone, but the text remains. More than two hundred death penalties are gone from the law books, but the texts that authorized them remain.”

    Mark Twain wrote this in 1923, when at that time, Christianity clearly realised the bible should not be taken literally and contained mistakes. While some Chistians still refuse to recognise this, they’re in the minority, but in the majority of Muslim countries they believe every word of the Koran and live it, as if it was still the 7th century. The Koran tells them they are superior, because Allah told Muhammad so. He aslo said the Earth was flat?

    Reply
    • This is why I would wonder if you plotted a graph with intelligence or educational level on one axis and levels of extremism on the other, whether the highest levels of extremism would correspond to the lowest IQ / educational level.
      It’s easy to brainwash people when the only source they get to learn from is a book which claims it is the infallible word of god.

      Reply
  • Islam is the religion of “peace”.

    “Slay them wherever you find them…Idolatry is worse than carnage…Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God’s religion reigns supreme.” (Surah 2:190-)

    “Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it.” (Surah 2:216)

    “Men are tempted [in this life] by the lure of women…far better is the return of God. Say: ‘Shall I tell you of better things than these, with which the righteous shall be rewarded by their Lord? Theirs shall be gardens watered by running streams, where they shall dwell for ever: wives of perfect chastity…” (Surah 3:14, 15)

    “The only true faith in God’s sight is Islam.” (Surah 3:19)

    “Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people…They desire nothing but your ruin….You believe in the entire Book…When they meet you they say: ‘We, too, are believers.’ But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage.” (Surah 3:118, 119)

    “If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches…” (Surah 3:156-)

    “To those that declare: ‘God has commanded us to believe no apostle unless he brings down fire to consume an offering,’ say: ‘Other apostles before me [Muhammad] have come to you with veritable signs and worked the miracle you asked for…If they reject you [Muhammad], other apostles have been rejected before you…” (Surah 3:183-)

    “If you wish to replace a wife with another, do not take from her the dowry you have given her…” (Surah 4:20)

    “Forbidden to you are…married women, except those you own as slaves.” (Surah 4:20-, 24-)

    “Believers, do not approach your prayers when you are drunk, but wait till you can grasp the meaning of your words…” (Surah 4:43)

    “Seek out your enemies relentlessly.” (Surah 4:103-)

    “Try as you may, you cannot treat all your wives impartially.” (Surah 4:126-)

    “The Jews and Christians say: ‘We are the children of God and His loved ones.’ Say: ‘Why then does He punish you for your sins?” (Surah 5:18)

    “Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends.” (Surah 5:51)

    “The God will say: ‘Jesus, son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind ‘Worship me and my mother as gods besides God?’ ‘Glory to You, ‘he will answer, ‘how could I ever say that to which I have no right?” (Surah 5:114-)

    “Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons…he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home…” (Surah 8:12-)

    “Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God’s religion shall reign supreme.” (Surah 8:36-)

    “If you fear treachery from any of your allies, you may fairly retaliate by breaking off your treaty with them.” (Surah 8:51-)

    “…make war on the leaders of unbelief…Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them…” (Surah 9:12-)

    “It ill becomes the idolaters [non-Muslims] to visit the mosques of God…” (Surah 9:17)

    “Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]…until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued.” (Surah 9:27-)

    “It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it.” (Surah 9:31-)

    “If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men.” (Surah 9:37-)

    “Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home.” (Surah 9:73)

    “Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them.” (Surah 9:121-)

    “Say: ‘Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom…” (Surah 17:111)

    “‘How shall I bear a child,’ she [Mary] answered, ‘when I am a virgin…?’ ‘Such is the will of the Lord,’ he replied. ‘That is no difficult thing for Him…God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!…Those who say: ‘The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,’ preach a monstrous falsehood…” (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)

    “Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him…He has given you the name of Muslims…” (Surah 22:78-)

    “Blessed are the believers…who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)…These are the heirs of Paradise…” (Surah 23:1-5-)

    “You shall not force your slave-girls into prostitution in order that you make money, if they wish to preserve their chastity.” (Surah 24:33-)

    “As for the faithful who do good works and believe what is revealed to Muhammad…He will forgive them their sins…” (Surah 47:1)

    “Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” (Surah 48:29)

    “Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?…Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents…They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets…Blessed be the name of your Lord…” (Surah 55:52-66-)

    Reply
    • Your point being???

      Reply
    • All scriptures are stories, nothing more.

      Reply
    • @Pat – My point? What do you think my point is? That Islam is a religion of “peace”?

      @Paul – The Koran is a very dangerous story. (I am Atheist BTW) Christians and Jews are not actually terrorizing the world. Islam is still stuck in the crusades.

      Reply
    • Thank you Kevin, I misunderstood.

      Reply
    • whatever

      Reply
    • I’m just going to post one quote because I’m not bothered replying to all your poorly researched and blatantly racist cap… why is it every time a Muslim does something its the religions fault. why are so many people tarnished with the actions of the few? here is the exact quote with context as it has the whole section from the Quran that’s in front of me that you posted first…. 2:190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, begin not hostiles. Allah loveth non agressors. 2:191 And slay them wherever you find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drive you out, for prosecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the places of worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you there then lay them. Such is the reward for disbelievers…. quite a bit different from your one isn’t it? and mines from the Quran!

      Reply
    • @Elvedin – Don’t give me that racist shit. My last name is Niazi that goes back to Afghanistan/Pakistan; guess I am racist against myself? Nice try. What race would you be? You look white from your picture. Islam is an ideology not a race. How is what you posted any better? I love the mentality of some Muslims. “Do not stone her to death unless she cheats on you.” Like really? That is still bad. Who cares if the Koran says stuff about not killing, it justifies tons of killings in many circumstances. It contradicts itself and the Koran is crap. I only included a small amount of verses. You really don’t think there is something flawed about Islam? Islam is terrorizing the world. I know how peaceful Islam is, I got a glimpse of Pakistan and it isn’t pretty. Muslims aren’t the victims, the “infidels” who live in Islamic countries are. Islam is not peace.

      Reply
    • Here I’m after taking a quote you’ve just posted and proven its not only wrong but the opposite of what you’ve said. Also just cos you have a middle eastern surname means your an expert ? well that’s bollocks since you couldn’t even get one quote right. Give me a proper quote with context that says Islam or the Quran teaches of unjustified killing and we’ll talk. Frankly your pulling random quotes out of thin air and shpeeling hate just cos you don’t agree with it (you said your an atheist above)… For what its worth it is a peaceful religion and just because it gets a bad name from the extremists that use it to justify their own agendas and because you had a bad experience does not make a whole religion flawed… If Islam was such a hateful religion that thought people to kill each other why would there be so many Muslims in the world? Surely people are smarter that that…

      Reply
    • Oh and for what its worth how does being a racist against yourself make any sense? Your not a Muslim and your saying things against it, things that aren’t true as proven above. So how does my racist comment not make sense ?

      Reply
    • Thanks Elvedin for your contribution. I must say in general (not just on this site) the voice of moderate Islam has been disappointingly quiet. I know we’re told that those histrionic violent zealots do not represent the majority but in my opinion that majority has been a hugely silent majority. I really welcome your take on things, ya know to balance the debate…can’t be but a good thing.

      Reply
    • @Elvedin – The quotes I posted you know are all in the Koran. Who cares what other part is with them? They are still evil/disgusting. Islam is a “peaceful” religion? That would make a good comedy. Why is there no Islamic country that is an actual Democracy? Look at their constitutions/blasphemy laws. Can you explain that? What do you define as “peaceful”? It’s only a “minority”? Really? The majority of Muslims are radical by Liberal Democracy standards, not to the standard of hijacking planes but still radical. Moderate Muslims are the ones that immigrate to the West and at the same time there is a large radical-Muslim minority. I have some questions. Do you think the anti-Muslim YouTube should be banned? Do you think the video-maker should be brought to “justice”? Is it ok to punish women who cheat on their spouses? Is it ok to imprison/execute homosexuals? Is it ok to imprison/execute those who insult/mock Islam? Is it ok implement Sharia Law?

      Reply
    • @ Elvedin,

      Thanks for the exact quote. Just a quick question. Unless you’ve got some other sources of information (feel free to link them), how does your quote……..

      “And fight not with them at the places of worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you there then lay them.”

      ……correspond with the whole reason for the article? Is there some Hindu attack on a Mosques we’re not being told about?

      Reply
    • 1.3 billion muslims in the world. If it was really the violent religion there would be much more violence every day. For every quote you gave there’s likely one just as bad in the bible or the torah.

      Ezekiel 9:6 “Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women . . . ”

      Isaiah 13:16 “Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.”

      Deuteronomy 13:15 “Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly . . . ”

      Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death . . . ”

      Exodus 32:27 “. . . Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.”

      Deut 21:10-12 “When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; ”

      Exodus 31:15 ” . . . whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.”

      Deut 21:21 “And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die . . . “

      Reply
    • @Leigh – Your right the Bible has verses that are bad. But how many Western Countries have implemented Christian law? How many Christians behead/stone people to death, hijack planes, bomb buildings, and are actively terrorizing the planet?! How many Liberal Democracies are in the Middle East?! I would understand your argument if we were in the crusades.

      Reply
    • @Elvedin The accusation of “racism” against critics of Islam is nonsense. Islam, however bad it may be in other respects, does not discriminate between races, and converts to it (unfortunately) come from all races. Confusing an attack on a belief system or ideology like Islam or communism (something a person can take up or reject by free choice) with an attack on a person’s race (something they can’t change) shows an ability to stretch the word “racism” until it loses all meaning!

      Reply
    • @Chris the reason I posted that was in reply to Kevin who posted a load of random quotes. I took his first one and typed out the actual real quote and the one beside showing that that his version was wrong and without the sentence before it looses its meaning. I could take a sentence from any book and use it to make a point but you need to read a paragraph or at least sentences around it for context…

      @ Leigh that’s exactly the point I’m trying to make… over a billion Muslims in the world and the way Kevin is describing there should be hijacked planes every ten minutes…

      @ Kevin Turkey is a democracy and there’s no point having a conversation with you about this. No matter what I say your going to disagree. I really like your whole all Muslims are evil and are destroying the world. The problem is when a Muslim does something his religion is immediately published… a few weeks ago that guy in America walks into a Shikh temple opens fire… kills a load of people.. or your man at the batman premier… no one ever asked his.religion… but if his name was Muhammad, it would be all because of his religion. Also no matter what you believe the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful normal people who hate violence. The ones that make the news are the ones everyone bases their opinion on. It’s like saying Osama bin Laden killed a load of people and his extremists pals in the al qaeda and his a Muslim… all Muslims are terrorists… simple… but Hitler was a Christian… what does that make Christians? if that’s your way of thinking… p.s I’m not saying all Christians are like Hitler just making a point hehe….

      lastly sorry if this appears as one paragraph phone won’t do a space on the journal app for some.reason

      Reply
    • @ Chris

      I’m just after reading your comment properly. In no way I’m justifying the actions in this article. What happened there and what does people did was wrong and a sin by Muslim belief… if we want to go there…

      My reply was simply challenging Kevins first quote, and of course I’ve just realised the mention of the place of worship sounds a bit like I’m trying to justify. Once again I’m not and.my quote is not related to the news story only to Kevins first comment.

      Reply
    • You get extremists in all three of the Abrahamic religions.
      We see a lot about the Islamic ones in the media at present, which is fair enough, they seem to be stirring quite vigorously, but we tend to forget that Christianity and Judaism are prone to extremism too, it’s in the scripture.. It’s all about how literally they take it.

      Most moderate followers of all three religions are very far removed from these extremists, but they are likely to have higher levels of education too. If you have little by way of education and there is a preacher telling you about this book that is THE word of god, that you must obey it without question, you are going to believe them (cast your mind back to infants in catholic primary school here if you went to one). After that, its all about which parts they choose to focus on. The parts of scripture (and their lack of context) above proves this point quite well. If the preacher focuses on those parts of the Koran he breeds hateful, violent followers. If he focuses on the peace and love, he breeds more moderate, tolerant followers. Same goes for the Torah and New Testament respectively (were you comforted by the idea of the catholic god watching over you, or creeped out that he could see you going to the toilet? It’s all about what elements are focused upon)

      It’s not unheard of for the preachers not to practice what they preach or even seem to believe in it (look at the Vatican), and even today we have Christian ministers murdering suspected witches in Africa and Shamen in South America – it doesn’t get quite as much coverage, but it is happening. If you wish to see extremist Jews check out Panoramas Price Tag Wars. There are even extremist Christians indoctrinating their kids for a holy war in the US right now (see Jesus Camp).

      These are a tiny minority, but they exist in all three religions. At present we hear mainly about one, one prevalent in countries with poor levels of education that just happen to be experiencing a lot of social upheaval – partially due to western Judeo Christian nations and partially due to wanting change. Is this a coincidence? Or is it what sets Islam apart in terms of the scourge of extremism at present?
      Or is it that because their anger is directed at these Judeo Christian nations to which we are aligned, we are forced to take heed? The Shamen in South America and alleged witches in Africa are of no direct consequence to us here in the “West”, so perhaps we are not as outraged by these acts.

      Could it be that Judaism and Christianity grew up a little in their time? Islam being a relatively new religion may simply be going through its phase like the church did when it burned witches at the stake.. Of course it needs to be stopped, but the only way to stomp it out is to seek the cause and remedy it.

      Personally, I doubt something that created the entire universe cares what we believe in, and if we could all just accept that religions are just theories and not get so entrenched in them perhaps we could have a more tolerant world. Humanity is capable of so much more, so long as we are arguing about these beliefs we are impeding our evolution. It’s time for mankind to grow up and leave the “my religions better than your religion” crap behind.

      Reply
    • @Elvedin – Turkey is the only exception and it’s not even in the Middle East it is part of the EU. Your examples from America are wrong; they were not motivated by Christianity or screaming Jesus. Can you answer my questions?

      Reply
    • @Elvedin – Turkey is also not an Islamic state; it does not have Islam as the official religion. If other Muslim countries were like Turkey there would not be a problem. Turkey is the only exception.

      Reply
    • Christians and Jews are also terrorising the world in different ways! Ask anyone who is gay in America if their lives are difficult because of Christian fundamentalists and I’m sure they’ll say yes! Ask a Palestinian if their lives are difficult because of the conflict over land and I’m sure they’ll say yes! Terrorism can take many forms!

      Reply
    • @Shanti. You say in your comment that if you take the Torah or New Testament respectively and quite them out of context you can justify violence. I can see where that applies to the Koran and the Torah.
      I challenge you to find a single verse in the New Testament that can be taken in or out of context and used to justify or preach violence against another human being.

      Reply
    • @ kevin Niazi no wonder you are the misguided one….you are so confused in your own self, like saying “Who cares what other part is with them?” shows how ignorant you are,and also are you asking a question or its your argument, very amature.

      Reply
    • Kevin, the Turkish Republic was established as a secular modern state in 1920s. However the Republic is becoming more islamist and leaving its secular values since 2001-2. Under the current conservative so-called moderate party government, number of women victim of honour killing and domestic violence has increased.

      Reply
    • I didn’t really make a point of noting down the verse and chapter for every wall of scripture quoted at me on Prison Planet to prove that unless I repented and gave my life to Jesus I would die or deserved to. There was a lot. There was one or two that I had indexed, because I found them interesting, but it’s hardly an exhaustive source..

      We are taught that Jesus brought peace and love to all men – but he said this:
      Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

      If you don’t accept Jesus as your saviour you are an enemy to be killed?
      Luk 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.

      Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
      This was the verse used to justify burning women at the stake for using herbs.. (The term translated as “Witch” in the bible was φαρμακεία, or pharmakiea – the root word there being pharma or drug. Drugs – as in plant based medicine or today’s pharmaceutical medicine are considered witchcraft according to the bible, I wonder how many Christians realise that they are guilty of using witch craft when they pop that pill?)

      And talk about a paradox, Jesus famously said “Love one another as I have loved you” one of his most famous quotes.. But I’m sure you would agree that the following contradicts that;
      Luk 14:26 If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

      My point is that it easy to turn the scripture around whatever way you like, and many do. Jesus wasn’t all peace and love. That’s what is generally focused upon, but it’s not the whole story and you know it. If the preacher is preaching to people who may not be able to read the book for themselves, then they have even more control. As has been done throughout history – why is there so many schisms within the church? Because different groups have different interpretations.

      Like I said, you want to believe that there can’t be extremism in Christianity because that’s your baby, that’s your version of the truth and you see it differently to the extremists who use it as a reason to burn Korans, harass homosexuals, murder alleged witches and Shamen and indoctrinate their kids for war.
      A moderate Muslim would feel exactly the same about Radical Islam. A moderate Jew would feel the same about Jan that we were talking to the other day. It’s all about which bit you choose to focus on and which you don’t.. Good people do good, bad people do bad – but for a good person to do bad things takes religion.

      Reply
    • @ Matthew – There are Christian Fundamentalists in every Christian country. The difference is they are treated as lunatics by the majority in a Western country. Gays/Lesbians are not jailed/executed in America/Europe. Even people who are against gay marriage condemn the bigotry put out by these nut jobs. Mitt Romney (Republican) supports domestic partnership benefits for LGBT couples that is very different from how Islamic countries treat gays/lesbians. They even have the Gay-Straight alliance clubs in high schools in conservative states; I live in North Carolina. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

      @ Yasir – Yes I am very misguided/ignorant oh wise one because I don’t support a cult. Feel free to answer the questions Elvedin did not want to answer. Do you think the anti-Muslim YouTube should be banned? Do you think the video-maker should be brought to “justice”? Is it ok to punish women who cheat on their spouses? Is it ok to imprison/execute homosexuals? Is it ok to imprison/execute those who insult/mock Islam? Is it ok implement Sharia Law?

      @Flying Olive – Yeah I was aware political-Islam/Islamism is gaining support/power in Turkey and trying to transform Turkey into an Islamic state. There is just no point in telling that to Elvedin; who is more concerned condemning me rather than condemning the Muslims who attacked the Hindu Temple and showing that “Moderate”” Islam really exists. I am not stating just my opinion, I am stating undisputable facts.

      Reply
    • @ Elvedin,

      It’s been a few days since your last comment directed to me but as you said in your second comment to me, it’s all about context in terms of the passages quoted both before and after any quoted text.
      The quote I posted negated any defence of Islam (extremist or otherwise) that you may have in relation to this article specifically.
      Given a buffer of say…a page either side…of the Koran, before and after each of Kevi Niazi’s quotes, can you quote something positive towards non-muslims that doesn’t involve killing/converting or lying to in order to further Islam?

      Reply
  • @Elvedin Your dismissal of Kevin’s argument is arrogant and not justified by your seeming (lack of) knowledge of the Quran. The (relatively) moderate verses you quoted all come from the 2nd Shura (chapter) of the Koran, which was “revealed” at an early time in Mohammed’s career in Mecca when he had not yet attracted many followers and was relatively powerless. Later, when he had embarked on his career as a warlord, had won power and followers in Medina and returned to conquer Mecca, more violent verses were “revealed” to him, notably those of Shura 9, some of which have already been quoted by Kevin. Where apparent contradiction between earlier- and later-revealed verses appear, Muslim scholars agree on the all-important Principle of Abrogation, viz. the doctrine of the later one is to be taken as authoritative.

    In this regard, we have the famous “tolerant” Shura 2:256 “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error…” Muslim spokespersons often quote this to mislead, failing to quote the verse from Shura 9 that abrogates or supersedes it, Sh 9: 29: “Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and his Apostle, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya [tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

    In practice, this has meant down the centuries of Islamic conquest that Christians and Jews (People of the Book) who come under Islamic rule get two choices — conversion to Islam or submission with the payment of a special poll tax (Jizya) in return for a degree of tolerance for their religious practice. Hindus, Buddhists and others get only the first choice, which explains the more horrific history of Islamic conquest in India that paved the way (with tens of thousands of infidel skulls) for the Mughal Empires.

    To illustrate, here are some more jihad verses in the same vein:

    Sh 8: 38 Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).

    Sh 8: 39 And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God altogether and everywhere…

    Sh 8: 60 Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, Of God and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom God doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the Cause of God, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

    Sh 9: 5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, most Merciful.

    Sh 9: 14 Fight them! Allah will torment them with your hands.

    Sh 9: 29 Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and his Apostle, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya [tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

    Sh 9: 73 O Prophet! Wage war against the infidels and hypocrites and be ruthless. Their abode is hell – an evil fate!

    Sh 9: 113 It is not fitting for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for forgiveness for Pagans, even though they may be of kin, after it is clear to them that they are companions of the Fire.

    Sh 9: 123 O ye who believe! Fight the Unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find harshness in you: and know that God is with those who fear Him.

    Sh 47: 4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly on them: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: until the war lays down its burdens… But (He lets you fight) in order to test you… but those who are slain in the way of God, he will never let their deeds be lost.

    Reply
    • using a phone for this is a pain in the ass cos I would have elaborated on a lot more of Kevins quotes. Also the Mekkah surahs deal a lot with the expulsion of Islam from Mekkah at the time. in which case war was justified as the Muhammad and his followers were only attacked and prosecuted because of their religion. Going back to Mekkah, and Jihad you mentioned is the only form of violent combat permitted in Islam.. one your attacked and driven from your land, etc… I’m on a phone its a pain elaborating on everything but just as one example you quote surahs 9:14 “Fight them. Allah will chastise them at your hands….” the sentence just before that is 9:13 “Will you not fight a folk who broke their pledges, and purposed to drive out the messenger and did attack you first?”…which puts the latter a bit more in perspective…. either way I’m finished here and going to bed… I’m not coming out having a needless argument I’m just sick of every Muslim related article on the journal resulting in this needless bashing off all.Muslims as a people which is not right… Either way your opinion is your opinion… I guess I should sign off with a random quote that justifies what I’m trying to say? 109:6 “Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion”… a fairly tolerant message here… and its a Mekkan Surah… any good night… we’ll undoubtedly pick this up when the next wack job with a Muslim name or from a Muslim county does something that hits the news….

      Reply
  • Blasphemy laws are just another excuse to persecute people, they are being used by certain people and some governments to control, censure, imprison and even kill people they want rid of, religious bigots and extremists and ruthless people who want to take their neighbours property or goods are using it as a way to achieve their aims, it’s just like those in the 16th &17th centuries accusing their neighbours or enemies of witchcraft and we all know what happened all over Europe and America as a result of those events. Even today in less enlightened countries this sort of witch hunting goes on but with the rise of militant Islam it has become more prevalent in countries like Pakistan to see religion and especially Islam being used as the ‘offended’ religion and most likely the ‘offender’ is of another religion or sect. Given that the ‘Islamic’ religion is still somewhere in the middle ages and the fact that a majority of it’s followers are themselves as uneducated and for the most part as poverty stricken as your average medieval peasant or serf it should come as no surprise to anyone that this is going on. Don’t be surprised either if nothing ever comes of the Pakistani police’s investigation into the attack on the Hindu temple and i’ll wager a bet that the Islamist cleric and his followers are never punished for their hate crimes. Sad to say but Ireland too has a blasphemy law which the last bunch of incompetents managed to bring in whilst destroying the economy, so don’t think for one moment that it couldn’t be used against you if your neighbour finds your ‘jesus saves but not on my salary’ t-shirt offensive! Big fine coming your way for sure, ok you won’t get stoned or beheaded but then who would have believed priests would rape children! Religion is a poison and it has been responsible for more death and mayhem throughout human history and I fear it may have a lot more to visit upon us all!

    Reply
  • It’s unlikely that Pakistan’s blasphemy laws will be used against the Muslims involved in this anti-Hindu attack — the Islamic supremacists who murdered two moderate political leaders for suggesting even a reform of these laws will make sure it doesn’t happen. The figures since the 1947 partition tell the story of Islamic tolerance:

    Hindus in Pakistan (West and East) 1951 = 22%; 2006 = 1.7% in Pakistan, 9.2% in Bangla Desh.

    Muslims in India 1951 = 12%; 2006 = 13% (official Gov figures, but observers put it much higher now — possibly at 30%)

    Glad the writer mentioned the Ahmadi Muslims, who because they believe a version of Islam minus violent jihad are persecuted by laws that make it a crime for them to call themselves Muslims or call their places of worship mosques. They also suffer a constant hate campaign in the media from mainstream Muslims and have been mass murdered during prayer by suicide bombers.

    Reply
  • “blasphemy” is a victimless crime therefore a load of bull’hit. Religion has no redeeming factors just another stupid reason to hate and divide people.

    Reply
  • Seems like its alright to slag off the Catholic Church on this site but not so followers of Islam!

    Reply
  • @Matthew Kavanagh Fundamentalist Christians and Jews tend to condemn homosexuality as a freely-chosen sinful lifestyle. That may be distasteful to us, and it may be uncomfortable for those gay people who care about such views, but I’m not aware of a single Christian or Jewish preacher in recent decades calling for the murder or execution of gays. The rule “Hate the sin, love the sinner” has a strong influence in these faiths as they have evolved since the Enlightenment. That’s a far cry from the debates among fundamentalist Muslim imams, which tend to be about whether the best method of execution of gays is drowning, burning or throwing off a high building. Pres. Ahmadinejad of Iran denies that there any gays in his country while his regime hangs gay men from cranes. If all of this can be lumped together as “terrorism”, then language has lost all meaning.

    @Elvedin

    Reply
    • This may be where as I suggested Judaism and Christianity have just had a bit longer to mature – or evolve as you put it. Islam is still essentially in its infancy compared to the other two, and from what I can work out is an attempt to put the Christians and Jews to shame for this evolution as they are supposed to abide by the laws of Abraham. This is why Islam places itself above the other two (when really it’s just a big step back for evolution), because they reckon that Jews and Christians abandoned these holy laws and therefore abandoned their God..
      Talk about apple polishing..

      Reply
  • theres only one solution, remove military funding to Israel from the U.S. (if the Israel lobby hasn’t already hijacked their executive branch entirely) then let nature take course

    Reply

Add New Comment