+1 agree

Spot on !!!

Its amazing how virtually everyone not directtly benefiting from the CP deal are in favour of introducing it to reality of arithmetic yet when there is a poll its 50/50 are their a disproportionate amount of public service voters on these polls. Not everyone in the public service is on a gravy train obviously but many are and when compared to the reality of private sector employment in Ireland today there is a huge divide. the divide is caused by the massive disparity in conditions for the same work and yet the public sector unions claim that anyone who states the obvious is trying to create a divide. The biggest creator of the divide is CP, it is an imperative in terms of justice and financial arithmetic that it is scrapped before any more cuts are put on the most vulnerable. If you have your health and enough to live a decent life its very difficult to argue for an entitlement to huge salary from an insolvent state when that state is denying basic services to some of its most vulnerable and borrowing from states that pay public servants less to meet all its costs.

No move on income tax until cost of politicians is reduced by 30 to 40%. Then a higher USC rate for people over 100k per annum.

no chance of them doing that mel, a reduction in gas/electricity prices means less v.a.t. for them to collect. as it is there are big (over 10% ) rises expected in electricity /gas costs this Autumn with board gas already applying for a rise to the regulator , a lot of people are struggling now to pay for heat and light and ‘fuel poverty ‘ is on the rise ,but we could scream until we are blue in the face and this shower of blotted overpaid gombeens still won’t give a shite!

Mel

Bord Gais announced yesterday that they are planning on increasing gas and electrity prices by 15% by the end of the year, which would mean an increase of around 150 euros p.a. for consumers!!!

Next summers bath roster (increase in fuel prices)

emmersion on bath setting – everyone shares the bath water. Emmersion on sink – everyone gets 2 inches of clean hot water!!

Summer 2014 bath roster (water taxes and esb increases)

Emersion on sink – everyone shares the water!!

Income taxes are not taxes that you pay for with your income (as you correctly state, they all are). They are taxes which are proportional to your income. Motor tax depends on what car you drive, hence the name. Hope that clarifies the issue!

No need to clarify the issue. Income taxes based on the size of your income, car tax based on its efficiency. The car you drive is proportionate to the size of your income, Motor tax is proportionate to your car –> Car tax is proportionate to your income and your income is reduced proportionally. Hence, just take all the tax up front and remove said Motor tax which I have proven is an income tax!

Hehe, ingenuous argument but wrong. If I don’t drive, I pay no car tax, no matter how much I earn. -> car tax is not a tax on my income.

Correction: “if I don’t own a car…”

Yes you are right, the same can be said if you don’t own a property for the house hold charge. My point is, however, these type of taxes are sneaky and because of the way they are designed they take a greater proportion of income off the lower paid. Taxes should be easy to collect, easy to calculate and proportionate. The system I outlined above is fair, easy to collect and is proportionate. Yes it means that everyone is paying higher income tax, but there would be no other taxes except for VAT at 15%

Yes and no, I can also see the point of taxing different forms of wealth: property, capital gains, cars with big engines (which are taxed once with Motor Tax and many times over with excise duty on petrol). And there’s no guarantee that a VAT decrease would result in lower prices to the consumers.

I agree that a lower VAT rate might not mean lower prices for consumers but it should. Government are allowing companies they control to raise their prices, this is reducing peoples spending power & giving extra tax to the state. The government are delighted with this situation as it is company a raising the price not us. Net result income down, tax up. People are going to have to end up borrowing money just to get food because of a combination of tax increases and utility bill increases. This will weaken the domestic economy and will require more taxes to be raised. So people will require loans to eat and pay taxes. Nobody is looking at the cost of living in Ireland they only look at the income side of things. People are struggling and what are the government doing about it? Taking from the poor & middle classes to give to the rich.

39 billion euros – what we raise in this country – should be enough to run a country the size of Ireland.

To be fair, you couldn’t possibly save enough to go on holiday and survive on that.. The people that are doing that are working odd days and cash in hand. The black market is a different problem to solve.

No dey shud not touch de social, u try livin on only 188 a week an findin sumwere to live wit dat rent allowence rate. Pure poverty bud dey shudnt touch dose of us who de crash hit de hardest even more dan dey are now!

Nice to be born wit a silver spoon in yer mouth but de average man here is fukn sufferin

Well Dirt your unemployed friends on 188 euros a week must be doing some part time wizzardy as I am on I88 euros a week and I cant afford to fund any holidays or go go drinking.

Some are working cash in hand the odd time, some aren’t. They’re living at home though, paying no rent, mammy doing the shopping and they’re getting 188 into the paw every week. That’s more than enough to fund a party lifestyle of going out Friday,Saturday and Sunday. If they save it up then for 5 weeks that’s 940 euro, you get a decent package holiday in the sun for 400 euro, that leaves 540 spending money. Some are struggling I’ve no doubt of that, but some are milking it and having a great time. Young single people should be cut a bit for every 6 months they remain unemployed, particularly if they downright refuse training, placements or low paid work.

On the dole you try living on the social in an apartment with no rent allowance. Then you’ll know suffering. The only reason I stuck it out for so long was because it was much better for me being in college and now that I’m finished I moved back in with the parents until I find a job.

sorry mate but some of us didnt hav de cash to be goin to college an rentin a flat to party in

i worked on de sites since i was 16 an am now stuck on de dole as ders no jobs an I cant get into oz , no college parties an livin with mammy and daddy for me

i think they should really look into this whole so called single mothers i know dozen of women claiming there on there own but are not they are getting rent allowance single mother payments which allows them to work around 20 hours a week on top of this and also they receive more payments with this and they are always out and on holidays it is a disgrace this is allowed it is showing our future generation that it is ok to go down this road because u eventually will receive money house etc i think there should be help for single mothers but the genuine ones out there who need help not just an easy life

You try living on 188 a week. I find it difficult.

I left school after my junior cert. and started an apprenticeship. When the recession hit I didn’t just sit around on my arse doing nothing and giving out that I don’t get enough free money, I went to college for free like anyone under a certain income (like the government told us to do 2009 to up skill and you easily could have done the same unless with all that time on the sites you didn’t bother doing an apprenticeship) and now I would say my prospects are better know than if I was still just an electrician.
Don’t expect everything to be handed to you on a plate, get out and do it yourself. And I wasn’t having a load of parties, I was studying my ass off so that I could make myself more employable and it’s paid off because I’ve just been offered a job with a great engineering firm.

im fed up of hearing people saying about cutting s/w , most people on s/w did not ask to be out of work, ill or disabled, yes there are some career doleites out there but whose fault is that? does the dept of s/w ever check up on why these people have never worked ? if not why not ! that is where the cut’s/ savings should be made,not by blanket cuts to all recipients. i get 200.30 for my wife and myself per week and i worked and paid tax’s for 30 yrs until illness forced me to finish work, im in my mid 50′s now so i’ve no chance of ever getting work again even if i was fit. cut’s and savings should start at the top, with our over paid ministers first in the firing line followed by the bankers and developers, cut the number of t.ds to 50 and stop all expenses,early pensions and perks . as for your mates on 188. going out on the beer all day and having holidays, well why dont you report them to the benefit office because they are obviously getting money from another source to top up their dole.

This is hardly a challenging enigma. Anyone earning over 80,000 PA should have income tax rise (implemented so that you are not better of on 78 than you would be on 82 obviously) and anyone on the dole who is living with their parents should have it cut. If your parents pay all the bills and you get 188 you can easily be out drinking and saving for holidays, if you have kids and a mortgage obviously not, yet the dole makes no distinction. Anyone with non dependents should have a small cut in dole, anyone living with parents a significant one and anyone over 80k should pay slightly more income tax, 120K a greater amount. Its a matter of arithmetic, obviously the CP deal has to be introduced to reality as well.

The government need to start with childrens allowance (whatever its called these days). People earning over 50000 euros should not be entitled to it. Those earning between 37000 and 50000 euros should be means tested and those earning 37000 and below should be entitled to the full amount. After that they need to look at increasing income tax for high earners.

Divide and conquer, playing into the governments hands

Another dole basher,in 2006 we had unemployment at 4% therefore when there was work people worked the majority of people now on the dole are there because there is NO work it’s not out of choice as you are suggesting

Mel he’s just coming out of college therefore probably has little experience in these matters. I wouldn’t entertain such comments.

i think ur spot on here about people with the benefits to mel and aidan he might not be only speaking about people on the dole also single parents

yep its a fact that quite a few people are milking the system for sure and I agree as long as you live with Mum and Dad you should NOT get welfare. On the other hand, single parents, no support at all so very restricted to take jobs and living on 217 Euro.. any questions? And single people for expample should not be able to get welfare just like that and unrestricted as if I would have no child you can travel, find jobs somewhere else, you are flexible.
I probably go on an internship -IF I GET IT – and as a 7 yr old I HAVE TO PAY ON TOP TO WORK THERE HOLDING ON THE STRAW THAT HOPEFULLY SOMETHING COMES OUT OF IT! So live on this money and then judge…in Germany if you earn more money you pay more tax – absolutely logic!!

Well and what about here people having lovely jobs and having lovely council houses……. there are so many things going wrong…..

The dole should not be seen as an entitlement. It’s a safety net, that’s all. We provide very generous social payments in this country, not necessarily a bad thing in itself, but now that we can’t afford it we need to look at it again. One person’s dole payment is another person’s tax.

Report it then, there would be a lot less people committing benefit fraud if others who know about it were to report it.

u are bang on there and im sick of these people lying to the government as i said above and then u see them on fb each month on a tuesday saying in the pub that money is for there children not there social lives keep ur head up u are doing more for ur child by setting a great example how things should work in ireland this place need a huge shake up in its way of thinking

Joseph, as much as I would LOVE to report them, its my understanding they have been already, but still go on their daily weekends, work/dole/sleep in’s. Suppose its a case of chicken or egg then isn’t it? What annoys me, is any investigations done into these people seem to be very little. I mean, there’s plenty of people who I’m sure would happily take the job of investigating ‘properly’. I’m sure it would outweigh what we pay these scroungers to pay someone to do the job!
Emma, would you believe, my 15 year old son actually said to me “why are you even working Mam, sure you’d be better off on the dole”….my god I wasn’t long educating the lad…but sadly, as a ‘single mother’ he’s probably right :(

not everyone has it so easy, ive been unemployed a short while, i may face eviction, im living on beans on toast, and i cant afford the 5 euro luas fair to visit my family let alone my ele, although that wont be a problem if i am evicted, i do have friends though that are on the dole since they left school, out every night and 2 holidays a year

i know its shocking that children understand know how ireland work even on these post above are saying tax the higher earners they dont need all that money even if they have loans to pay huge college fee to get them the jobs that they have today it is a shame this is the teaching for todays society ad it is basically dont bother mentality and i know about the reporting someone is not looked into they ring them 3 days before and tell them someone has reported them and we will be knocking by in 3 days time which gives them loads of time to hide anything they dont want them to seeurd so that does not work i have heard of so called single mothers hiding there partners clothes saying im living here on my own so they are getting there allowance benefits and gas paid for then there partner could be working but these girls say i have no money but walking around with update handbags clothes buggies things i could not afford shocking it is

david no one is saying all people on the dole far from it we are talking about people like ur friends and others who are abusing the system and just dont want to have a better life just an easier one which i say can annoy u at times as it is hard for u at the moment there are alot of places u can talk to for help like st vincent de paul for food vouchers and other companies who help with debt and ur morgage just make sure u are communicating with ur banks and they will have helpful tips for u to help u keep ur home wishing u all the best

enda i have worked for 9 years this summer and im about to turn 22 (yes a few years illegally as i lied about my age to the employer but i still payed tax), i know people over 25 who have never worked, why should my 120 a week i am getting (because i am not 24 i dont get the top rate) be cut, when these peoples aren’t. I am in the same situation, i have been independent since the age of 16 and supported myself since!

apologies, i am about to turn 23 and i guess i am in denial :D , unemployed for just over a month and the only persons tab i am living off is my own, for the prsi i have paid for the last 9 years, yet i dont qualify for stamps, apparently work pays!

Note ,we are not living in the UK .A report last week stated clearly that we ate the fifth dearest country on Europe to live in which you conveniently don’t mention

Middle earners have about the same effective tax rates as Sweden…

Are you sure thats actually correct Conor, Scandanavian tax rates on income and we are out of the woods, possibly if you taxed corps at 50% but as you know the biggest corporations would be gone

Let’s just tax everybody at 100% and let our benevolent government decide who gets the handouts. To each according to his/her need and all that. I’m sure that has worked somewhere. It’s the only way to be “fair”.

And Censored wins the prize for the most stupid post on this story…

Is that the best you can do? Yawn.

Nor bond holders.

I believe they are paid just about the right amount… Despite the rants etc. on here I challenge people to review the lifestyle of any TD and ask yourself if it shows the extravagance etc. that people are so keen to suggest… They work hard (all parties) and they get paid well which for me is fair enough…. Not sure I would take the abuse and ignorance thats comes from the media and public for 92K though.

€40K basic, and expenses on a value for money basis.

We only need 26 TD’s, one for each county.

declan maybe if they took some of the pain by a significant cut in their salaries down to say 50k without all the added on perks and expenses, then people might not give them “so much abuse “, there is no need in a country of this size for the number of t.d’s ,senators and local counselors that we have at present , local authorities the h.s.e and other govt dept’s are over run with managers with grand titles and big pay packets and pensions, meanwhile the front-line staff are cut to the bone ,then when services dont work (because of front line staff shortages) these clipboard warriors close their office doors and hide from the angry public. cuts need to come from the top .

Spot on. The key for politicians is not to make the salary the motivation as it attracts greed instead of patriotism. Before someone starts, there are plenty of educated people who would “throw on the jersey” and don’t forget there are plenty of advisors anyway.

In truth I dont believe the salary is the attraction in any shape or form. In fact a large cohort of the people who are TD’s could earn significantly more in private enterprise. 50K to be a TD is a joke in my opinion.

Wrong Declan. Put it this way, if they really could earn significantly more in private enterprise .. then they’d be doing it.

And by the way, your argument that their lifestyle does not display extravagance – that’s what people used to say about Bertie.

Sort (I mean get rid) of the Croke Park agreement first. Reform the social welfare so this notion of being better off on the dole eventually becomes a myth. Tax breaks for artists and sport professionals should go (we all have to work and pay taxes – nobody is better than that) . Move bank debt off the sovereign books to save ourselves a fortune in interest. Then we can look at income taxes to plug the hole but when spending power is weak it would be insane to exam this now when there a billions to be saved elsewhere first

Yes to all of that and I take your point about spending power – taking €3.5bn out of the economy is not going to help us out of this spiral whether we go for tax increases, public pay cuts, welfare cuts or all three.

But in the end it’s hard to escape doing a bit of everything. Either that or renege on the MoU and take our chances.

Well said the political elite are counting on us to tear each other apart so that they can continue to live a lifestyle that they do not deserve. If we stopped fighting each other and put the focus on the politicians we will see that we are paying for leadership when none is being provided. It is all an act that all political parties are involved in, trickery to keep their lot while the rest of us suffer.

It’s not a matter of condemnation it’s simple economics. Lots of working people in this country are pretty broke and can barely afford to keep themselves going. You want to take even more money from those people to pay for unemployment. It’s not a question with a “right” or “fair” answer.

I agree it is economics, so let those who are economically better off (like the political elite), pay their economical fair share. Also let Bono and U2 pay their fair share and the tax exiles. Why should the people who are economically tied to Ireland (enslaved to use a better word) pay for those who can afford to pay but have been given tax breaks!

Joe,
I am sure its easy to do but it will generate very little money… a tiny cohort of people earn more than 150k a year… thats the reality i am afraid.. Middlle Ireland will be stung again becasue the ones at the bottom pay virtually nothing and there are so few at the top….
D

That maybe true Declan, I don’t know the figures so I will neither agree or disagree with you there, but irregardless it should be pursued as a point of principle, people are suffering and we need to know the richest are being hit and contributing nearer to their fare share even if their numbers are few and it doesn’t make the money we would like it to.

Or get Mr Rich to pay for Mr Jobs for Mr Unemployed.

Trim the fat yes, but don’t cut to the bone or we will only cripple ourselves. Under no circumstance attack the poor, yet slash the rich too much and they will leave further damaging the poor. Since when did the big rush to pay a bill become more important than peoples lives.. That’s why the fiscal compact was a big scam, forcing us to savage each other to meet a target to pay a bill!
That is not civilization.
This is a cycle that WILL turn around. Hold out until then and the recovery will pay the debt. Hopefully we will not of lost all morality in the meantime.
When Mr Jobs does come we can all savage him together.

“Fairness” aside. Have you looked in how much actual revenue would be raised by that proposal?

I think you’ll find the real plan is going to increase taxes on everybody, especially the ones who are not protected by specialist lobby groups.

Martin,
Truth is that only a small % of Irish people earn over 100k and in many cases these are the very people who create and drive jobs in the country. Not exactly sure of the figures but I believe its something like 70% of income taxation in Ireland is already paid by people who earm in excess of 70k??? I am sure someone on here will have the exact figures… Point being that the high earners as they are referred to already pay for everything!!!!

Declan, you could sell sand to Arabs. It suits your ideological position, also being a member of FG, to talk crap like that. Low income workers are facing an economy were every single item on their weekly outgoings is increasing in price and they cannot afford further cuts to their wages. The rich do not want to pay for the crisis that is their creation. We’re never going to agree on this. I want to rich to pay, you want people to feel sorry for people with 3 houses and 4 cars. *sob*

Martin…not a member of FG. i voted that way in last election but thats it… I would be centre right in my beliefs however… Just to clarify..

Martin, depends what you call rich… truth is the people you are referring to already pay for everything?? Is that fair or just?? That 30% of the population pays for all of the services for the rest…. People earn good money for good reasons…Education, training level of skill, experience all contribute to why someone earns what they do? And these are choices we all make…

Declan, I’m not even gonna debate you on this. I’m sure you’ve seen my posts on here, I’m a socialist. The argument that the rich are somehow propping up all these lazy bums at the bottom doesn’t float with me.

90% on everythin over 35k is better, more equality for all

It’s not crap. Unpalatable as it may be, higher earners already contribute the bulk of the Irish tax take. The last time I looked at this, before the USC came in, “broadening the tax base” meant including lower earners who were (at that time) free from the tax net.

Be careful what you wish for. You may well find that the numbers don’t add up the way you would like, and this will end up being a significant burden on the middle classes rather than on those mythical golden gooses.

The higher earners may indeed be paying the bulk of total tax paid, but how much do they have remaining after all is counted? The chunk I have lost on my middle income wages impacted significantly on me. I cannot afford holidays, new car and so on. The people earning 100k + still can. Perhaps they have to settle for a Volkswagen instead of a Mercedes. I’ve to settle for my ancient Renault with the leaking roof.
I’m not saying I have it bad, I’ve no children to support and I’m not defaulting on a mortgage or what have you. I’m just saying if we’re all pitching in and coping with
austerity, should the level of same not be at least a bit equal

Mary, I understand that. But it’s not going to give us the answer. I’d prefer to see your taxes reduced so you can afford to spend money of your own free will thus keeping the economy going.

Never heard of Capital Gains Tax?

You’re having a laugh, capital gains tax is way below income tax, it’s why people set up as limited companies, pay themselves a wage €1 below the lowest tax band and claim the rest is dividends!

LOL exactly.

There’s plenty of people I know that’d gladly pay more tax if it meant we would have better public services. Universal health insurance, fixing the school systems etc..

Also, for people on low/middle income who feel they can’t afford to pay more in taxes, but would like to see the rich pay more are dead right.

Even in the US, up until the 1980s it was normal for people making large amounts of money to pay 90 percent in tax, now through all the loopholes and cheats they pay almost nothing. There is something sickening about that, it’s not a matter of people simply being selfish about their own tax paying but wanting to punish others.

Excuse me for working my backside off to ensure a decent lifestyle for me and my family. Please, do take 90% of my hard earned salary, while you spend your days trying to locate the keys missing from your keyboard.

What a stupid comment do your saying the guy that studies hard and gets a good job should get the same wage as the dosser

On De Dole…an internet troll.

mel an m j de sooner u lads realise wer all equal de better ur no better dan any one else in de country an de sooner u get dat de sooner ull see how bad de goverment an banksters hav fukd de normal people over here.

bob dont u be callin me a troll u dont no me or wat I luk like hidin behind yer computer like a big man

“hidin behind yer computer like a big man”

From one anonymous user to another, those in glass houses, etc etc…

And no, we are not all equal. The sooner you realise that, the better. Some of us want different things in life, some of us are willing to work for what we want in life. Some are happy to be content with their, and others want everything handed to them on a plate. Some have decent grasp of the English language, others, not so much.

ur no better dan me or neone else m j no matter wat ur posho college prof told u

soon enuf de average man will say enuf is enuf and well see another uprisin here in Eire an all de posho elitists will be booted off de island like st paddy did to de other snakes!!!

wer all equal so lets put de people before de corrupt companys profit an make dis place as gud as it was before!

how can you afford internet access if you are that strapped?

On de dole- stop making a fool of yourself and bow out of the argument!!

On de dole: You really think a doctor who works A&E on the weekends and has to suffer looking after drunk idiots, who works a 60 hour week often saving people’s lives, who studied hard in college for 7 years should be getting the same wage as someone who couldn’t be bothered looking for a job!? We are all equal but when someone puts more effort in they should be rewarded.

came wit me iphone keith dey sed de price was de same wit or witout it, wudnt have it if it saved me cash but data not an option

dont like it take it up wit o2!

On the dole are you not able to write proper English? Or are you just to lazy?

Guy called ‘On de dole’ – Why are you resenting those that have gone to college or that are making a little more money? Did it ever occur to you that we have worked very hard for it? Maybe it’s time to stop bashing others and making some opportunity for yourself. With your current attitude you’ll always be in your current situation.

we are all equal but some are more equal than others :)

On de dole – you’re clearly missing my point. A college degree doesn’t make anyone better than anyone else. Nobody is better than anybody else. However, those that work hard should be rewarded accordingly.

I can see now that he is just taking the piss and he’s getting enjoyment from winding people up.

http://i.qkme.me/3pvacc.jpg

I have a job working 40hrs a week and I can’t afford an iPhone. Equal my bollocks

Some people are apparently missing the humor in “On de doles” comments. Lighten up, will ya.