If schools can take sanctions against students for Facebook posts regarding teachers, will this mean they can also take sanctions against students who are engaging in online bullying?

The perception you can post anything online consequence free needs to be addressed. This is one such method.

Can’t really comment without knowing the full details, but if there were allegations of a sexual nature, that’s extremely serious. Seeing some of the obnoxious statements on social forums, there are plenty of adults. never mind kids, who haven’t copped onto the idea of what you should or shouldn’t say on public sites. I’m often surprised that more people aren’t sued.

I think its fair to say these students knew full well what they were doing, i heard an argument this morning that these darling little students did not realise their comments were being Published, quite a weak and nonsensical argument. Given the climate of abuse allegations, I think it is reasonable that the school and especially the teachers involved had every right to be appalled by some of the allegations whilst not made clear by all accounts were of a vile nature. The said students displayed a level of vindictiveness which show they clearly knew what they were doing and the damage it would cause.

It is about time kids realised there are responsible for their own actions … We are too easy on own children these days – if it was my child i wouldn’t try to get him back in !!!!

A standard needs to be set once and for all. Otherwise, the mantra ‘oh but we’re young and we didn’t know what we were doing’ will continue to be used. Bullying, whether it’s students or teachers, emotional or physical, is totally unacceptable. These kids aren’t stupid, nor are they cyber illiterate. Hard lessons need to be learned.

To liable a teacher warrants expulsion and further investigation. To say the parents are appealing the expulsion is just bad parenting. They did it, they are expelled, move on. Seek education elsewhere. Teachers have a hard enough job as it is without being defamed and run down on a social networking site for all to see and jeer. The parents are free to ask questions but no way should the students be re-admitted.

Fair play to the school, it is liable & im delighted that finally the seriousness of FB is hitting home. Theres a huge difference between saying something bad about a teacher infront of 5 people/classmates/friends and saying it on FB to potentially a couple of hundered/thousand instantly. Stupid kids.

It’s probably something stupid I would have done, but I said yes anyway.

I voted yes but as long as the same rule applies for the bullying of students as well as teachers.

Bullying in any form is still bullying, whether it be physical, mental or of the “cyber” type, (if you could call it that), and to me, is totally unaceptable. So yes, they should be expelled. Nobody has the right to make anyone else feel smaller than them. That is all I have to say on the matter.

How naive are these kids to think it wouldnt get back to the teacher/school? Are thy THAT naive that they think that FB is this closed little circuit, secret and hidden from everyone? Seems they DO have a lot to learn, question is, what school WOULD take them on now??? And would anything they might have to say in future be taken seriously at all?

If you were a teacher and someone made horrible comments about you on a social networking site and you were just expected to continue teaching them like nothing happened, how would you feel? Of course they should have been expelled. There really was no other option.

kids spend too much time on poxy facebook as it is, doing nathin when they doing something. these kids went on it with a purpose, intent on ripping the teachers for personal gain and popularity, well congratulations, mission accomplished. now deal with the consequences. in my day, if you were found out to have written something offensive on a desk (that only the pupils in the school could read) you’d run the risk of expulsion. this is much worse given the potential for the comments to go viral. So sling them out, be a good lesson to the others.

The punishment should fit the crime. These students did something which is of a serious nature and so they should face serious consequences (let them appeal if they want by all means.) In our society we see too much wrong doing going unpunished
.
We have travellers racing around on public roads endangering the public..no consequences for that.
Bankers and politicians screwing up the economy and being rewarded… houseowners not paying their household charge even though they know they are breakingthe law..no consequences ( had to put that in lol)

Im sorry to say that we have lost our way. I hope this school expels these kids.. Only good can come from it in the lesson it will teach their students. if they back down they deserve everything they get.

These students are on the brink of adult hood and as such should be made face the consequences of their actions . Firstly they should be made to formally apologise on the facebook account and retract all the comments they made. Then at the school they should be made apologise formalil and in writing in front of the entire school to the the victims of this bullying. Then they should ask permission to return to school And lastly they should undertake not to use facebook or any other social media for a 12 month period.
Having said all of this if they were my sons I would march them by the ear to each of the teachers involved and make them realise that this behavior is unacceptable and make them apologise .It is an absolute disgrace that this should have happened . I voted that they should be expelled.

There is a difference between libel and basic freedoms. Defamation is a serious issue but so is reprimanding some 40 other student for clicking LIKE. This could be a dangerous development especially for kids who should be able to LIKE whatever they like but also be educated concerning fall out from defamation. If they continue then that is another question but I would hate to think of kids being denied basic freedoms. God knows how they will interpret that in a few years.

i found out my daughter was being bullied on the internet, i called the kid who started it, and said i could not believe what she was doing, as they used to be friends, following day my daughter was called in for bullying at school, she said to teacher to look at the pages and she would see , she said nothing, the teacher would not look and kept calling my daughter a bully, she did not want me involved and walked out on the teacher a few times, then she told him she was calling me in, and he backed down, she spent numerous nites crying, playing sick as did not want to go in, its sad but true, and i feel the teachers should listen to kids, and listen, dont call a truthful teen a liar, thats how liars are made, i am not saying my child is innocent, she is a normal teen, but a liar no, and anyone that knows her, knows that about her, but guess being in a school for 4 years they dont get to know students anymore, if teachers cant deal with kids, they should call parents and make them aware, they are supposed to be responsible for them when we drop them up, and not dictate but listen and nurture and try to bring them up to be good adults,

bullying is bullying end of , Is is never acceptable under any circumstances, I feel the School was correct .

I think students of that ilk need more education, not less. There should be civil penalties for such behaviour. Slander and libel are actionable offences, are they not?

It’s quite difficult to have an opinion on this when we don’t know what the bullying entailed. Or how serious ‘serious’ is in relation to the remarks by the students.

punished, yes.

expelled, no.

they should have been made to read a formal apology out in front of the entire school.

then sent back to class and educated so that they know better in future.

There are I think some misconceptions about this story. The children in question created a page on FB following a trend in other schools and colleges called “Oatlands College Memes” in which people created and posted memes about the school. Some of those memes were inappropriate in sexual tone and ought to be utterly condemned and appropriate measures taken. However the problem is that the action taken hasn’t been measure or appropriate. One of the posts which has been a catalyst for the expulsions read “Can’t tell if Mr/Ms X is a bad teacher or if the students are bad” and this has been suggested as one of the memes which is of a bullying nature which seems an over the top reaction. Similarly the pupils that received detention had liked at times innocuous posts in that group such as posts about the fact that the school pitch slopes downward which once again shows that the school, in my opinion, has acted over the top on the whole situation. The issue arose and instead of dealing with it in a calm manner and resolving it so that it doesn’t happen again the school has alienated people. Large swathes of both the student and parent body in the school are disgusted by how the school handled the situation and also management’s approach to dealing with them when the issue was raised with them. Indeed one long standing member of the school community who has served it for a number of years has resigned in protest at how the issue was treated by the school. While all articles on the incident in the school have to be concise by their nature, there is far more to the story than reported and indeed it is important to correct some misconceptions which might arise without the full facts of the case.

‘B7584 Likes This’ :D

not for a first offence. and I wonder whether the same force had been applied if this had been a fellow student …

Most of us are commenting here without knowing the real truths about the situation. To counter some of the comments here I’d like to say the following:

–a recent report about mental health among adolescents showed that they report that school is the biggest stress in their lives – why is this?
–most secondary students have very little voice or say in their educational environment, how they are taught, how they are treated – school councils have a very limited role and are largely ineffective. Students in most schools are NEVER asked about their experience of school, what they would change, what they find stressful, what is a problem for them – why is that when other countries would do regular questionnaires with each student?
–many students seem to feel they are treated with little respect in their school environments, denied a voice, and treated badly by some teachers – they have no way to address this. They themselves are punished for the smallest misdemeanour, but there are no sanctions for teachers who treat them disrespectfully – which clearly happens in every school. In my experience, there is always remarkable agreement among students about which teachers treat them unfairly and disrespectfully.
–the relationship between teacher and student is reckoned to be one of the most important factor in students’ happiness and ability to learn – how come we do not see more of a ‘whole school’ approach in more schools so we can ensure that all teachers paid from public funds are aware of how to positively manage group dynamics and treat young people with the dignity they deserve?

In this case, we need more facts – what exactly were the nature of the comments – if some are allegations, then have they been investigated?

Are we not mature enough to understand that young people in a system most of them don’t want to be in, where they often have no real voice or control over their day-to-day lives, young people who are not emotionally mature, are going to do things that more mature adults might not do. They are actually impulsive and risk-seeking by nature and find it difficult to consider the outcomes of their actions (neuroscience work on brain development of adolescents shows this).

The Idea surely is for mature adults to use the opportunity to explore with them why they do not have loyalty and love for some of their teachers, what issues they have, or why they would indulge in this kind of hurtful behaviour and what this could feel like for other people – and how they could make amends. Expelling children can lead to a really negative spiral in their lives and it is a real shame that the school have taken this option. If they are a Christian school, it is all the more shocking that they cannot be more forgiving and try to find out what is going on for the young people in their care. I see they are Christian Brothers – surely a little forgiveness from the order that beat my brothers in years past would be a nice thing?

They shouldn’t have said anything sexually abusive but as for saying that a teacher couldn’t do her job properly, this is probably true. What’s wrong with speaking your mind? What about free speech? A lot of teachers cannot or do not do their job properly and somehow they are untouchable or immune to scrutiny. It’s a bad state of affairs!

Promise you this school will ignore bullying of classmates instead of dealing with them like they have with the teachers case. ‘kids will be kids’ but once it’s the feeling and reputation of teachers on the line, that attitude goes out the window.

People are allowed to vent their anger but the question is would teachers rather the students say what was posted to their faces while in class ? no I don’t think so, so being expelled is extremely harsh I think, they should at least be warned then some kind of action taken and then last resort expulsion ! Maybe I’m the only one who see it like this but if anyone agrees then please like the post. Thank you.

Were the allegations checked out before they were expelled. There are a lot of teachers who cant do their job properly and are kept in the system for some reason. With regards to the sexual allegations were the Gaurds called to check out these allegations?/

Most definitely, without a doubt!

Its an online domain that is the zeitgeist form of communication between peers. Granted it is more public, and yes it may affect the branding of the organization. However, its the same as kids might discuss this, write on a note etc that we may have done albeit I may have done. The punishment is excessive and further pushes the point that the administration does not understand the technology or its students.

I think the kids (young men) should be given a break once they apologize and then the school should also apologize to the 40 or so who were reprimanded for clicking LIKE. Clicking an icon on a computer screen will never be an offense.
We tend to forget the mischief we caused ourselves. Once the kids know it could be more serious than they thought – the job is done. Lets not blow it out of all proportion by dragging it into perpetuity. Surprised at the readiness for vengeance aired by some. It it was responsible adults in the workplace fair enough but these are not adults and school should also be about teaching them correct values not dishing out disproportionate and possibly illegal punishment. Teachers should expect some grief, especially teachers of senior pupils. I think it comes with teh territory.

I think suspension would probably have been enough, that combined with a forced course of how to behave on the internet. Maybe a talk about how bullying has affected people,
I’m not a teacher, but I have teenage kids, and while they wouldn’t post anything like this on Facebook, it wouldn’t surprise me if they would press ‘like’ on something like it.
I do try and watch what they’re up to and talk a lot about what is acceptable and what isn’t , but you never know with 15/16 year olds and peer pressure is a big issue as well.
It seems to me other measures could surely have been taken, but that would require extra input, and maybe that’s too much to ask of teachers/ parents?

Just a reflection of our overly punitive criminal justice system – all research shows that the vast majority of people offend between the ages of 16 and 18 but it declines rapidly from then. What is the school trying to achieve? Punish them yes, but to what end? Ruining their lives?

Kids are idiots.

When students bully other students, the school usually says there is nothing that can be done. When a teacher feels they have been bullied there is a media furore. Hypocrisy as per usual. I reckon about 80% of the teachers in this country aren’t up to scratch and, whatever about the alleged sexual comments, the students should be commended for blowing the whistle on a ‘teacher’ who is not doing their job. More whistle blowing please on these parasites who are just in it for the money and the long holidays.

expelled is harsh, come on like we all b*tched and moaned about teachers, facebok is just the new way of doing so, i voted no as its not like its said directly to the teacher, if its not in the school the school should have no grounds so to speak

Very well said Michelle. I think expulsion is over the top. They are teenage boys, who probably indulged in a bit of what we adults perceive as silliness. However, it does raise the question, again, of how to deal with bullying. Verbal bullying is particularly hard to spot and deal with. I think the suspension should have been enough.

Nobody’s saying that everybody should carry on as normal. But the school has missed the opportunity to act according to values of love, peace, forgiveness, reconciliation and restorative justice – thus creating true accountability, healing, making amends and also moral development of the young people concerned. See http://www.transformingconflict.org/Restorative_Justice_in_School.htm for more about restorative justice in schools. They could use restorative justice techniques to get the students together with the teachers so the students can explain why they did it and the emotions behind it and the teachers can explain how they felt about it and how it has affected them, and then action can be decided upon by all – perhaps some kind of restoration? Revenge is just lower order thinking and will be a lose/lose situation, while restorative justice could offer a win/win situation.

I’m sorry but if we kick kids out of school for doing something like this, where are they ever going to learn (other than permanent enrollment at the school of hard knocks) why what they’ve done is a bad thing? Its up to these institutions we engage with to teach the next generation why certain things we do are considered bad or good. That generation then thinks up their own, new ways to be bad, and teaches their kids not to do it. And, I mean, we can hardly rely on those slipper clad pyjamas mums, who value their children in bill paying child support potential, to transmit those values and virtues! No, kids need to stay in school and learn that there are goods they can use to aspire to greater Common good for everyone.

A teacher doing their job well would want to show those kids why what they’ve said is bad, demonstrated through their punishment, not banishment of the kid/s in question. I think there’s a huge deficit of teachers willing to envision their own careers this way, thinking themselves instead just well paid public servants with job securities and generous benefits. It’s obvious in a country where teachers are as willing to leave the school at 3.30 before the kids can even get out the doors! Take a step up over the border and see how many teachers are leaving a school before 4, 5, even 6pm! You just wouldn’t get it here, but the Irish are damn well paying for it in taxes! So demand it!

(Sorry for using kids so much but it saves on typing children xD)

It is ridiculous that these students can face any form of punishment from the school. The event took place outside of school hours on a social networking site that has nothing to do with the school. Should they be expelled for sharing their opinions with their friend by word of mouth on the street?

Should people be censored for expressing their opinions? Hell no, lets stamp the nazi boot down on that one straight away.

Nanny state!

Teachers being bullied I find a difficult concept to accept. teachers and school management are in ninety nine percent of cases in the portion of power.Similar to other organisations example gardai they have a tendency to over react to any challenge to their authority. Deal with the slander or other offence in an unbiased forum and punish the people concerned in the appropriate manner. But unfortunately there may be no unbiased forum.

How easy it is for teachers to pass judgement on their pupils when kids are given no voice.
Education is about knowledge and responsibility. Educate our children and stop being so caught up in dishing out punishment.
As for what happens in the business world: there is an opportunity for workers to express their opinions on the performance of their leaders, no such opportunity is ever offered to kids in school. This is one reason why our school system tolerates poorly performing teachers.
If teachers want to expel (fire) pupils then teachers themselves should expect to be fired for making mistakes.
This example highlights how our schooling system is all about the teachers and never about the children we are supposed to be educating.
Teachers, please put the needs of the children you are supposed to be educating first, for once, please.

The teachers can complain to the Gardai but the school has no business interfering in this matter which is a private matter between the teachers and the kids. As usual schools think they have a say in children’s lives outside of school hours which they don’t. Teachers take them to the cleaners if they want but school BUTT OUT and MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.

luca, the poll say abusive, i know the story says sexual and i can agree with that part as it can seriously affect the teachers future, but regards other i stand by my post

No No No that’s disgraceful , what bout word of mouth and txt , teachers are there to educate and of course kids will say things vocally , whatever way they can . These teachers need to ignore things like this and do their job and educate