Ireland, Gavan, the name of our country is Ireland. Not the republic, not the free state, not the 26 counties … Or if you prefer, Eire, which is the term used as Gaeilge.

Adrian – I’m well aware of Article 4 of the Constitution, I’m simply seeking to make it easier to discern between the two for the case in point.

Fair enough, Gavan.

I was just expressing my opinion as a former resident of Northern Ireland. I fully understand and appreciate that the article poses a hypothetical question, but I do feel that there are many here in the Republic of Ireland who have an ideology of an Irish Nation that involves the entire Island of Ireland which is rooted in history and not in the real world of today. History has not taught people that one persons ideas cannot be enforced upon another although history is full of examples of this. I was also simply pointing out that the people of Northern Ireland should have a say, not us down here. The people of Northern Ireland should get the first say in this and then, and only then, can we be asked to go to the polls to accept and ratify their decision. If it goes to the polls down here t then people are going to be voting for a proposal that they know very little about on a personal level. It is their decision to make, not ours, not our politicians and most certainly not the radicals who still, in their minds, live back in a war torn island. There is a danger in the hypothesis that the word “people” is missed or glanced over. It’s a minefield with plenty of bar stool heroes and bar stool experts ramming their uninformed and ignorant opinions upon others. We are not in any position to say whether or not there should be United Ireland because in this particular instance the majority do not know best and speak on behalf of a minority.

@ Gerri – I think its been brought up in that traditon that is behind most of the “Yes” votes. Its one of those things that, till recent decades, was part and parcel of being Irish. Woe betide anyone who differed!

Keeping the above comment in mind, I note Jr Mccarthy’s thoughtful, erudite, reasoned response to one of my posts!

You’re a little confused, 26 Counties does not constitute the ”Country ” or the ”Nation ”of ” Ireland”

@ Adrian, you know as well as anyone that the 26-county political entity which you call ‘Ireland’ is confusingly given the same name as the island upon which it sits, undoubtedly as a reflection of the republican hopes of the framers of An Bunreacht na hÉireann and its constitutional predecessor. Therefore, the terms ‘Republic’, ‘Free State’ and ’26 counties’ and inconceivably, ‘the South’ are conventionally used when discussing this political entity minus those 6 counties that are part of the UK, to avoid confusion with the geographic entity which bears the same name, whether you prefer to say it in English (Ireland) or in Irish (Éire). No matter how outdated the terms ‘Republic’ etc. may seem to you, the reality is that we will go on calling the political entity by these names to distinguish it from the eponymous geographic entity until the day comes when the two are one and the same. If there never was a case for a united Ireland, then perhaps there is now!

@ Shawn – Thanks for the reply.

All I’m doing is pointing out that the terms Ireland, or Eire, is the correct legal name for our country. I’m tired of hearing all the other designations been used, especially as if they are right name. If Ireland is too offensive, then use Eire. What’s wrong with it?

If its okay to use all those terms, why not use the correct ones?

Refer to us as Ireland or Eire, the north as Northern Ireland, and the island as “the island of Ireland”. Not difficult.

…. hmmm, now THERE’S a reason to vote Yes, lol!

I’m glad you’ve seen that we are not so bad after all steve! :-)

Fair enough, Steve. As a democrat, if an overwheleming majority both in Northern Ireland and Ireland supported it, I’d abide by it. Its just that I cannot see what good it would do to either districts, at least not for quite a long time yet. Maybbe two or three generations?

Can I ask a few questions?
1 – What was your prior views on life south of the border?
2 – “I’ve also seen how much contempt the major parties here have for Uncle Gerry. ” Surely everyone up north realises this?
3 – You think UI will put an end to divisons up north. Fair point; if I thought it realistic, I’d support it. But, maybe I’m too much of a cynic. Tell me how and why I’m wrong.
4 – What did you make of the Queen’s visit?

Cheers!

Not to point out the obvious, but the Shinners know there are Protestants in the South, there is no shortage of Protestants in Cork SF, especially in West Cork and Bandon. Also o’Snodaigh T.D. is a Protestant (a lapsed one), SO actually per capita SF would have the largest % by some degree of Protestants in the Dáil.

Hi Adrian.

1 before moving to Cork I believed the propaganda that the Catholic Church ruled Ireland and that southern Protestants were driven out during the rising and following civil war.

2 they really don’t. Since even before the agreement was signed unionists have been badgered into working with Sinn Fein. Little did they know that FF and FG wouldn’t touch SF with a bargepole.

3 I feel that the major problem up north is that from a young age the communities don’t mix. When I was younger my school had lessons with a school from the other side. Sadly my school was the exception not the rule. I learned from a primary school age Protestants and Catholics aren’t that different.

Belfast city council has 6 leisure centres just to pander to those who refuse to mix. If the money tap was turned off Northern Ireland would just have to grow up.

4 I think the Queens visit was brilliant, better than I imagined it would have been. Elizabeth made a great effort and in fairness Philip was in rare good form. A lot of people I know were expecting the worst and ended up pleasantly surprised. Anglo Irish relations do seem to be at an all time high.

Cheers for the reply, Steve.

I love playing Devil’s Advocate! Always very instructive, and every now and again, I learn something, so thanks!

1 – Well, they had what we might call “a strong advisory role” but even since my own childhood (at the height of the Troubles) that was on the way out. I’m not even sure anymore who in my fairly wide circle was raised Catholic, Protestant, or the “Whatever-yer-having-yerself” category. Some Protestants did leave, and some, especially in Cork, were deliberatly murdered, but most stayed. They were Irish; they were already home.

What I’d love to know is how prevelant those former views of your still are in the north.

2 – This baffles me. Did they not see how badly SF preformed down here until the IRA (slowly) got off the stage? Sure it took the state’s worst economic crisis for SF to get its current 10% (!) of the vote. Anyway, the only way forward for SF down here has been to become Fianna Fail Nua …

3 – “Belfast city council has 6 leisure centres just to pander to those who refuse to mix. If the money tap was turned off Northern Ireland would just have to grow up.” THIS might be the most original argument for a United Ireland I have ever heard! Seeing as I don’t agree with any of the offical ones, this might be the one that might (!) get me to vote Yes, lol!

4 – I was delighted she was here but was tense all the time in case some amadhan did something stupid. I wonder what people up nort, in both communities, made of it.

After reading though all the comments, its one’s like yours (too few!) that have me a wee bit more inclined towards unification. But it can’t happen in 2016 or anytime soon. The two jurisdictions have no business as one state until major internal problems are sorted.
I love the complexity of our history. But then I come from a family whose members included an M.P. who voted for The Union AND a president of Sinn Fein (shush! keep that to yourself!).

Dear Richard – sorry, posted the reply meant for you to Mark, but to reiterate – I never said you were not Irish. I just don’t believe Northern Ireland has any business becoming part of Ireland now or anytime soon.

Fear not Alan. That’s exactly what the people of Ireland voted for following the GFA…

Not a bad idea, Peter, if only to knock over a few stereotypes. And a day out for the kids!

You talk some shite & thanks for speaking for the newry population, the newry people were well aware of southern wealth as they saw them week in week out.

… and when was this, exactly, Derek?

Before the celtic tiger.I grew up in Dublin..everyone was relatively the same…..not wealthy but just getting along.People could afford things if they saved for them or if the credit union was obliging enough.People were not afraid to ask their neighbour for help.A bottle of milk etc.People helped out in their communities for no gain or prestige with football teams and summer camps.A foreign holiday was a massive thing.A new car was even more massive.Everyone knew everyone where I was from.Everyone knew everyone elses dog!!!!

I dont feel that today.Alot of people are up their own arses.If something doesnt have a monetary vale its not worth doing!Pride and Vanity are rife.I know less than half the people in my area now.This is my sole experience and opinion Adrian.

Well, I want to do better in life than just get along. I want to make something of myself.

But honestly, before, during, and after this Tiger bull, I found people acted just the same, and as well, as they ever did. If people get up themselves or are the type to see things just in monetary terms, then neither you nor I lose much by not knowing them!

I understand where you’re coming from, though; I just don’t want things to get as bad as they were when I was growing up. At the end of the day, all you do is be responsible for your own actions.

I’m in a really good mood today Adrian and was trying to be ever so slightly positive and inspiring in my own coarse way!:)

Id rather get along and be a happy, contented person than miserable and rich!I know this is not what you were alluding to but anyway……..Im done talking for today :P Have a good weekend!

You too! Be good – and sure if ya can’t, have fun!

More of this guy ^^. :)

Yeah, I just voted don’t know in lieu of that.

Yes I voted ‘don’t know’ but what I really would have liked was a ‘don’t care’ option.

… I thought there was only five ….

Never said you were not Irish, Richard. I just don’t believe Northern Ireland has any business becoming part of Ireland now or anytime soon.

Oops, sorry, that was meant for Richard Walsh! Apoligies, Mark.

As for your reply – what’s moronic about been opposed to murderers, who never had more than a fraction of the Irish nation supporting them?

Gerri, you seem to be unaware that the UK is also “crippling the poor to give to the rich”, as is happening in the USA and numerous other places. Bankers and banks are all that matter, you see. And I don’t see anyone “dictating” to anyone here. Don’t forget that the people of the Republic voted for the Good Friday agreement also – 94% in fact said Yes.
This here is just a hypothetical question.

I am well aware that the UK government is operating in the same way as other governments, as is the case throughout the world in neo-liberalist and capitalist societies especially since the 1980’s. However, the cost of living is on a completely different level in Northern Ireland. What I attempted to convey is that it is really not our choice down here in the Republic to say whether or not the people of Northern Ireland should be ‘integrated’ into the Republic without hearing and accepting their view and their feelings. I fear that if it ever happens it will be a deal done by politicians without resort to those who will be affected by such change and that the only thing we will be doing is simply rubber stamping a decision that really does not reflect the opinions and lives of a minority of people. The thread of my comment is a simple one really and that is, that there are people involved here, real human beings and not just statistical numbers on a page or in the clouds. Another hypothetical question is, will their voices be heard and do they count for anything?

Gerri, in 1998, the people of Northern Ireland and the Republic voted the Good Friday agreement into law through a referendum. A resounding majority (71% of Northern Ireland and 94% of the Republic) voted “yes”.
Why would you assume that any future decisions would be made any differently? Nobody is proposing that here. Relax!

Gerry, why can’t we have the right to have an opinion? Remember, if they choose to join the Republic, that is going to have an effect on us, one way or another.

what republic i dont see a republic

I cannot thing of a single good reason why Northern Ireland should become part of Ireland.

Never in its history has the island been a united soverign political unit.

If anything, disunity has been the regular theme in Irish history. The unionists have been saying for 400 years they do not want to be part of an Irish state. Before that, the Old English wanted to keep the link with England because they did not wish to be absorbed into any of the Gaelic kingdoms or lordships. And before 1169, not a single Ard Ri had managed to unite all the kingdoms into one.

A United Ireland is a dogmatic ideal that has no place in the current day, and has not stood a chance of existence since the summer of 1649.

Ireland is Ireland, and Northern Ireland is Northern Ireland. Sin-é

We did get a chance at a Scottish-like scenario with the passing of the Home Rule Bill a very long time ago via Westminster but Unionists feared what they perceived would be Catholic domination by a Parliament in the old capital of Dublin. But we all know what happened, I won’t dig up the past and here we all are today.

Adrian. An usual way of looking at it, even Paisley and Edward Carson view/ed themselves as Irish men and from Ireland. Is it not time to move on, your thinking has been rejected by a very large no. of Unionists, never mind anyone else.

@Thomas – if a majority of people, both in Ireland and Northern Ireland, want a united Ireland, okay.

People in NI can be Irish and I never said any different. How else could we have a President born and raised in another country? I think the Irish of NI have a great boon in being able to claim Irish citizenship (as well as being part of the Irish nation), and I wouldn’t dream on taking that away from them.

My point is – unification, at present, would cause more harm than good. Give it a few generations yet.

So you dont conisder people in the 6 counties iriah then? southerns dont have a monopoly on who gets to be Irish. Your arrogance and ignorance on the matter should be tonned down, remeber your only 90 years a republic and the north was gerrymandered to create a unionist hovel.

@ markmaximus finnegan – Thanks for the reply.

Of course they are Irish. Otherwise, how else could we have a head of state from Northern Ireland? Where did I say that they were not?

This is brilliant. The best comment so far. A+ Brian Fitz. Going to bed now, still laughing. Goodnight :-)

Get a grip! The UK isnt too far behind in the debt stakes! They’ve just got the ratings agencies (moody’s, Fitch, Standard and Poors – sound Irish to you??) on side and control of their own currency.

looks like a troll, writes like a troll.

Eh

Why did u feel the need to leave England just coz of the ‘Westminster crowd’ ?

What kind of trolling BS comment is that?

It does exactly what is says on the tin, Tony. I don’t support a united Ireland because I cannot think of a single good reason for it.

That comment doesn’t make sense

I don’t know how plainer to put it

I don’t support a United Ireland because no-one has yet given me a good reason to support it
and
IF it is to occour, I want it to be long after the death of the last supporter of the IRA, because they did nothing to deserve it.

What’s so hard to understand about that?

I didn’t mean the premise behind your comment I meant when you wrote I’m not in favour of Northern Ireland becoming part of Ireland til the death of the last supporter of the IRA dies. That did not make sense.

@ Ailbhe – oh right. Well, I don’t know how to put it any blunter. I hope that a UI never happens in the lifetime of any member or supporter of the IRA, because I don’t believe they deserve to live to see it, after all the atrocities they committed ‘in the name of’ a united Ireland. Does that help?

@ Jr Mccarthy – I’m entitled to say what I like. You don’t like living in a democracy? Leave.

(The IRA was the only option? Gee, I had no idea every Catholic up there was a member. Why then was the SDLP the largest nationalist political party during the Troubles? Don’t remember them supporting the IRA)

I meant from a grammatical point of view you don’t need to put dies after death of the last supporter of the Ira. I understood what you were saying.

Oh, that. Typo. Ta bron orm!

The island of Ireland has never been a single political unit. No “Ard Rí” ever ruled all over the island.

Very slim majority, Paddy. Wonder how many would still support it if it came to a real vote? I can’t think of a single good reason for unification.

Hmm, if you translate a good portion of the don’t knows into don’t cares I think toucan safely say it is not a majority that actually want a united Ireland. Abandoned our northern brothers?! I think they are a bit better off than us these days, plus are you ignoring the results of their poll? They don’t want a united Ireland so I don’t think they consider themselves abandoned.

50% plus one- wee buns- united Ireland here we come-

WHY does it always have to be Dublin or Belfast? (maybe we should do it along alphabetical lines ..?). Do Cork, Limerick, and Galway not get a say??? Yours, an Outraged Culchie!

But it never happened, and people did die. And partly for those reasons I don’t support unification. Stuff the dead who wanted it – they’re dead, and so have no futher role to play.

you don’t support a united ireland because people died? where bullets not flying the other way as well, do you oppose the status quo because people died to maintain it.

fair play to you it must be hard living my your moral compas. don’t support things that are a consequence of violence. what would that include, the ending of apartite in south africa, probably you could say the eu is a result of two world wars in the 20th century. the emanipation of slaves in america. the creation of the usa the rights that came about from the french revolution the rights that came about from the holy wars in the reformation the rights that came about from the magnacharter and so on back to when the men of cave no 8 stood up to the tyrants of cave number 11.

of course violence is horrible but its a tactic what where talking about here is an idea. its possible to support the idea and a multitude of other tactics to achieve it. the two don’t have to be automatically linked.

I’m not South African. What they do in their own country is their business. Ditto much of the rest of what you brought up, most of which happend way outside our lifetimes.

The Troubles, on the other hand, did occour in my lifetime, and over 95% of the Irish nation never supported the IRA and their murder campaign to force the north to become part of Ireland.

The day after the last IRA supporter dies, I’ll be happy to see a united Ireland. Heck, I might even vote for it. One of the reasons I don’t is because I do not believe they deserve to see it, ever. I have a major problem with people been murdered, whatever the excuse.

so the enemy of my enemy is my friend. how far do you take that logic. i heard before that IRA supportors like to breath oxygen. no to everything that IRA supporters want. people where murdered in yourlife time for a united ireland and against a united ireland. both sides in that conflict appear to have put you in a terrible morral position. maybe if all supporters of the status quo are forced into an enduced coma are kept on life support till after the last ira supporter dies then the last IRA supporters doesn’t get to see it and the status quo supporters get to suffer your form of justice.

A united ireland is a legitimate democratic idea. its about placeing the control of this country in the hands of all the people of the country. how thats achieved has had people scratching there heads for a long while. your problem is with the tactics employed by one group to attempt to achieve it. if 95% opposed the ira as you claim and support for a united ireland on this poll is at 54% then surly the two are not inexricibly linked in the publics mind as they are in yours.

Sure, I’m all for such a vote. Northern Ireland first, then Ireland. If there is an overwhelming majority in favour of a united Ireland, I’ll support it.

By the way, have you ever supported the IRA?

nah UK is yesterdays news. we need to look to the future. china india or brazil. ‘were not brazil….. you are now’

Since there’s clearly no democracy in the UK or NI.

Yeah, well the 1916 leaders are long dead and have no vote. So their concerns are not valid, only those of us who have to live with the changes proposed.

How/why so, Brandon?

Me too Brandon; I come from Tyrone where a big majority vote for SF. In that poll SF gets 11% but in the recent election they got over 27%. In all, those parties that want a united Ireland got over 45% so that “poll” is way out of line with real election results.

@ Seán – Say for a moment a majority of all people in Northern Ireland votes Yes. What will you do if the people of Ireland vote No?

Thats how much you know adrian the 26 counties dont get a vote, go read the GFA and they debate the matter.

Ireland. The name of our country is Ireland.

Actually, the people of Ireland/Eire do get to vote on this. Block capitals are mine:

“it is for the people of the island of Ireland alone,
BY AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE TWO PARTS RESPECTIVELY and without external
impediment, to exercise THEIR right of self-determination on the basis of
consent, freely and CONCURRENTLY given, North AND South, to bring about a
united Ireland, if that is their wish, accepting that this right must be
achieved and exercised with and subject to the agreement and consent of a
majority of the people of Northern Ireland;”

http://www.nio.gov.uk/agreement.pdf

At present, unification would do more harm than good. Far too near The Troubles. Give it a few generations. Not everyone supports it, and their views must be taken into consideration.

those conditions where imposed by the emu/imf. does it make the idea of a united ireland unatractive? suppose its all in the eye of the beholder. iam 30 years of age and have no intention of leaving bar the odd adventure if possible, they will have to force me out and they won’t have an easy job of it. for better or worse this is my country the last 3 years aren’t the final pages written in our history. i believe where capable of better and will see better days ahead.

p.s if your kids have the same adventurous spirit as there father then iam sure they will do alright.

@ Peter – To what do you attribute this mutal ignorance? Indifference? Insularity?

@Adrian….. don’t actually think there is mutual ignorance etc. …. but as a former resident of NI, having lived in Manchester now for about 40 years,however, I am constantly amazed by the number of people I have met from ROI who have never been to NI (Apologies for the shorthand NI/ROI … saves on typing) but i don’t think that the reverse is true … I think that NI people are well acquainted with ROI. I think that a United Ireland, National question etc.. are last century’s issues … they carry too much baggage. Basically, I like things as they are which is an Agreed Ireland (with two jurisdictions) … for myself I am perfectly happy with my dual British/Irish identity. I agree with your postings.

@ Desmond – dammit, your profile icon is cooler than mine!

Maybe not. Its one of those subject that are bound to give rise to more passion than sence. As can be seen from some posts, there are some who judge you as less than Irish if you diverge from their view on the ‘national question.’ I’ve been asking “Why?” from a Devil’s Advocate point of view, and have never been given a reason I could support it. Calling people like me a west Brit, neo-unionist, etc, is not going to help. It has not been a burning issue south of the border for decades – if it were so, SF’s support would long have passed the 10% it currently enjoys. We’re happy with the situation as is.

Well, **** it. It carries too much baggage. Everyone here has lived with two Ireland’s all their lives. We can manage a few generations longer. Let those future generations make up their own minds without the deadly dogma of the past. After all, exactly how has the pursuit of unification benifited anyone?

Six years is a long time?

Six years longer than the brit army-

Actually Adrian the IRA has been on ceasefire since 1997. It made this cessation permanent in 2005.

Don’t try and distort the facts.

Aye, and I remember the way it chose to mark the end of its previous ceasefires.

Adrian- it was only tonne bombs in england that endeded ceasefires and won wars- only the dopy people who suppurted england which got kicked out of IRAq thought they had won-

But the IRA lost the Troubles, as the did the Civil War.

I’ve never met a nordie whom I didn’t like! Sure, they’re a great bunch of lads….

What’s wrong with people from Donegal?

People are people everywhere. Whether it’s here, or in the North, or in Egypt, or Libya, or Germany or anywhere else. We have for more similarities than we have differences.

Agreed ,,LOL

So you are saying that the Queen is not british- she is just european- why did R.T.E not say this when she was over-

Of course not ….. the Queen like everyone else is a European citizen who is also the the British Monarch ..

… and you can confim the assistance from any EU Embassy on this link http://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/press/frontpage/2011/1142_en.htm

Actually I disagree with that. Ignore it sorry.