I predicted this on Sunday and also the name of the Union that would be the first to fully oppose cuts, the rest will follow suit. That meeting is going to be dragged out and going to be a shocking waste of tax payer money

That’s the psychiatrist, getting ready to lead all those stupid enough to pay union fees, away.

All doctors who paid subs to the IMO are voluntarily presenting themselves to psychiatric institutions around the country. It’ll be the next bed crisis….

Unite didn’t exist in 1987, or even 1997, but do carry on.

It will affect public services insofar as lazy public servants will become even lazier

The money would not “go” anywhere else. It would just mean that the government needs to borrow less to fund the running of the country.

Fine, but that’s what austerity is. If you want the government to make cuts so it doesn’t have to borrow as much, you want austerity. Whereas if you want to government to spend money to boost the economy, then you should oppose public sector wage cuts. Both are valid positions, but you can’t oppose austerity and support wage cuts because that doesn’t make any sense.

Couldn’t agree more

I presume you are being sarcastic?

Very much so

Just imagine how things might be, if we had real people in charge. Men and Women with the moral courage to do what it takes to get Ireland back on its feet. All this shower of cowards have been able to do so far is decimate the earnings of graduate teachers and nurses. Why are they scared to take on those at the top? Real savings could be achieved, and the people taking the hits would still be able to have a standard of living, most of us can only dream about!

I think it’s because they have to rub shoulders/work with these people and we can’t have uncomfortable social situations can we?

Well realistically any cut from the top would be symbolic as it wouldnt generate much revenue an all out overhaul off the administration end of the public service is whats needed and a complete overhaul of the pay scale

Job cuts. Let’s start by shedding all the dead admin wood from frontline services and The Dáil. Let’s cut the salaries to bankers in Nationally Owned Institutions who are paid over €100,000 and abolish performance related bonuses when their performance is nothing short of abysmal….

Neil Blair that is a ridiculous view to have. However many jobs you cut in the public sector you will just add to the length of the dole queue which will cost the taxpayer to fund plus redundancies packages which will cost again. Any redundancies would be at the lower end of the pay scale, taking money off normal joe soap and out of the economy straight into some bond holders back pocket. Job cuts are not the way, get real!

But banks and their workers can continue in without a euro cut, let’s not forget they are public sector now too… Ad should be targeted for savings :)

Speaking as a teacher, we have had both Neil. We have had an average 17% pay reduction since Jan 2009. A little side heading that the government are reluctant to ever mention are the job losses in education as a result of the rise in pupil teacher ratio, cuts to SNAs, reduction in DEIS teacher allocations and the incorporation of guidance counselling into the schools’ pupil-teacher ratio. All told, it is estimated that there have been approximately 3,000 job losses in education since the austerity agenda began.

Correct me if I’m wrong Jay but the proposed cuts & changes in work practices were out lined to the unions yesterday?

They were goven the proposed cuts but what normally happens whats proposed and what actually gets agreed is all dont today but unite have said they will reject ANY. Cuts

Sorry Jay. If we are to be a little pedantic then maybe UNITE would be better off saying any MORE cuts. There have been quite a few.

Simple as this if the governments spending is more than its revenue adjustments need to be made and will continue to be made untill its spending is less than its intake. If your not mature enough to see that thats fair enough but like it or not the ps wage bill is unsustainable and needs serious reducing ( wit as little effect to front line services as possible)

I agree Jay. Revenue adjustments have to be made. There is waste in the public sector which needs to be rooted out. Revenue adjustments aren’t all about cuts to public expenditure. The wealthiest 10% have seen a rise in their income during this recession while everyone else has seen their income reduce. The wealthy in this country have had a number of loopholes to hide their wealth and pay a less effective tax rate than middle income earners. Some economists like to point to the statistic that the wealthy pay the majority of tax in Ireland. What they don’t talk about is proportionality. The wealthiest 10% contribute proportionately less than a middle income earner in Ireland. Even the forthcoming property tax is designed in such a way that those who own more valuable houses will contribute proportionately less than a middle income home owner. And the argument that higher taxes on the wealthy will drive away investment is devoid of any sense as investment in this country in terms of jobs and infrastructure is not significant enough to justify this argument.

What the top 10% of the country make. Or their sucessive pay scale bares no relavence to me as long as its not paid out of my taxes the issue at hand is unioin has said its refusing to even discuss cuts today … The ps waste is in every part of it admin after admin after admin 30000 administerators in the hse to a population of 4m … I font belive people should loose their jobs but if you can see that thats to excessive and reductions in pay or increase in hours will soften the blow of the excess well then i have no chance of getting through to you

Jay, the very premise of your argument falls down on the following point; you are paying directly in the case where there is not proportionality in the tax take of a country. If a particular group don’t pay their fare share, e.g. the wealthiest 10%, other groups must make up the shortfall, e.g the lower and middle income earners. I bring it back to my point about revenue adjustment. It cannot all be on the expenditure side.

So if you are correct in what you suggest what should we do with the top 10%

I would suggest implementing a mechanism, (as I’m not an economist, I wouldn’t know what nature the mechanism would take) that would ensure that the wealthiest 10% pay an effective tax rate of 50%, (which is only 8% more than the effective tax rate of a middle income earner). I would ensure, insofar as possible, that all loopholes which allowed the wealthy to syphon off their income in order to avoid paying tax were closed. I’m not against wealth, I’m against greed. Wealth which is earned and put to the use of society is good, wealth which is there for the sake of it only ensures that somebody else has to pay. I would also look at waste in the public sector. Things like long service allowances/increments, duplication of positions, refusal to retrain or up skill, days off for the monarchy, time off to cash cheques, nonsense like that. I’m simply saying that cuts are only one side of the balance sheet. You have to raise revenue fairly and equitably.

You aay your not against wealth but realistically you clearly are ive no problem with people making money ans if they make more than me i dont expect them penalised for it and increasing the tax bracket like that wouldnt generate the savings you need..

Do you know the private sector would march side by side with the public sector id the public sector would march against its own waste and last of productivity but how it looks from te outside looking in is the ps workers that work hard dont have much of a problem with the lazy and waste ad overspend as yous dot fight against it

Or how about the workers of both private and public sector unions unite against the greed that is driving this austerity agenda?

Hmmm while you sit on thejournal.ie?!

Not all of us have cushy 9-5 desk jobs Marian.

9 to 5 cushy desk jobs? You mean like nurses and Gardai and paramedics? Think before you type Jim

No, like Marian Leydon who assumed that I was at work based solely on the time of day…

yeah, there’s nothing worse than someone making assumptions based on no evidence

Back to your point about memes so…..

It was fixed within a minute or two – an unfortunate typo!

did the union get on to you…lol

Ha! No, I spotted it myself almost immediately afterwards.
Aoife

Please tell me what the typo was. I have one idea in me head and I’m really hoping…

“oppose” was missing from the headline…..

I better not say what I was hoping but it wasn’t that, although well worth a chuckle!