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Dublin: 11 °C Monday 20 May, 2013

Column: Why is Alan Ryan’s funeral the face of republicanism?

If politicians don’t want the masked men marching in a funeral cortege to continue being seen as the real face of republicanism, writes David McCann, they need to change the conversation.

David McCann

THE SHOW OF strength orchestrated by the Real IRA last weekend at the funeral of Alan Ryan has provoked condemnation from the Justice Minister Alan Shatter and much critical comment from many of the media outlets who ran the story with pictures of masked men paying homage to a fallen member.

But missing from all these critiques is a debate about what Irish republicanism should be about in 2012 and if other parties who subscribe to the principles set out in the 1916 proclamation have created such a void that it is now being filled by these paramilitary groups.

For decades Irish republicanism has held close the notion of blood sacrifice. Most pupils can recall from their history lessons being told of the great sacrifices made by men like Pearse, Connolly and Casement in the name of Ireland and its people. Ireland is not alone in the world for commemorating the military escapades of past generations. Similarly, this piece is not arguing that there is any link between the men of 1916 and the scenes in Dublin on Saturday. But is enough being done to modernise republicanism to fit into the circumstances in which we find ourselves in 2012?

It seems par for the course now that any meeting which includes the topics of Irish unity or republicanism must come with speakers spouting outdated quotes from revolutionaries delivered more than a century ago. While I do not seek to minimise the contribution of past generations to the development of Ireland, I do find something strange about the lack of progress in Irish republicanism that the same issues it revolved around a hundred years ago are still prevalent within its base today. So the question has to be posed: why the lack of modernisation?

Since the partition of the island, Irish republicanism made its number one priority the reunification of island. Yes, there are differing views about how to achieve this long term aim but any political party in Ireland that subscribes to the term of republicanism has this as a core aim. Yet I am poised to ask how successful have political parties that seek the reunification of Ireland been in achieving this aim?

“Why is the constituency for reunification turning away from the idea?”

Ireland in 2012 is nowhere near achieving reunification as opinion surveys from the Northern Ireland Life and Times survey to the Belfast Telegraph show just 32 per cent of voters in the North would approve reunifying with the Irish Republic in a referendum. More worryingly for Yes campaigners, less than half of Catholics surveyed said they would wish to join the south of Ireland in the next 25 years. You have to ask yourself why this constituency for reunification is turning away from joining an independent Republic.

In my view it is because republicanism in 2012 takes comfort from and holds onto ideas that are no longer valid in modern Ireland. Instead of preaching about the necessity for unity, no party that actually espouses the aim has actually bothered to explain to anybody who is interested what a united Ireland might look like.

What are the economic/social benefits and what are short-term costs? It is not enough to simply wish for positive outcome and expect results. If all the parties who support reunification genuinely want to see it then serious thought must be put into what shape that state might take. Otherwise, more and more people will simply turn away from the entire prospect altogether. As recent polls have shown, burying your head in the sand ignoring what’s going on around you does not work.

Reunification is just one example of the lack of new thinking but if Irish republicanism is to survive and even thrive in modern Ireland then it needs to seriously modernise and find new issues to champion other than the tired constitutional battles of past. Issues such as equality, the rights and responsibilities of the citizen and the structure of the government need to be at the centre of Irish republicanism going forward. As we approach a constitutional convention it beggars belief that we are not seeing in the media and among our politicians serious debates every day about how we can rejuvenate this republic for the next century.

“Stagnation is not the fault of any one party”

I believe that the main political parties in this country that espouse republican beliefs are genuine in their convictions and the stagnation is not the fault of any one political party or leader. But I do question the level of thought that has been given to modernising this ideology going forward.

If political leaders in this country truly want to make scenes like military funeral that took place last Saturday a thing of the past, then they must change the conversation about what it means to be an Irish republican. Otherwise, the scenes of masked men marching alongside a funeral cortege will continue to be the face of Irish republicanism.

The first step in solving any problem is first recognising there is one. If we continue to place the emphasis at a time when war was to the forefront of people’s minds, then how can we ever expect to create a republicanism that exists solely on the basis of peace and mutual respect? What we need today is a new proclamation for a new time that places an emphasis on our pride in the past but also confidence in the future. In writing this column, I hope I am in some small way contributing to this endeavour.

David McCann is a PhD researcher in Irish politics at the University of Ulster.

Read previous columns by David McCann>

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Comments (83 Comments)

  • Republicans of old were intelligent idealistic men, these so called republicans probably can’t even spell the word republicanism and their only ideals are to enstill fear and make financial gain through use of a name.

    Reply
  • These idiots don’t represent Republicans in Ireland…. they claim to be the Real IRA.. THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING IN THEIR SO CALLED WAR AGAINST BRITISH RULE THAT WOULD CREATE AN UNITED IRELAND… all they have done is formed a bunch of mouth pieces that think they are hard men and would not know their arse from their elbow when it comes to Republicism!!!

    Reply
  • These guys are just another criminal gang except this mob cynically wrap themselves in a flag. Their not fooling anyone.

    Reply
    • Yes, because bringing both the Twenty-Six County State AND the British State down on you is the fastest way for a criminal to make a quick buck these days!

      what advantage exactly does “cynically wrapping the flag” around them give these people exactly? If they wanted to stay below the radar and sell drugs for personal gain surely the best way would be to not join an organisation that is illegal and that they can be arrested for?

      Reply
    • @kerron good points i must admit

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    • Kerron, the mafia were so successful in the USA because the name struck fear into anyone they were dealing with. These guys use the Real IRA name for the same purpose. Having the IRA after you is a lot more scary than just some bunch of thugs. That’s the advantage. As they found out with this Ryan fella though, they are not untouchable.

      Reply
    • @ Kerron

      What is Éirígí’s position on the RIRA? Also, your micro-party seems to be leaking members like there’s no tomorrow!

      Reply
    • If you know so much about Éirígí why don’t you tell us?

      The fact is that we are expanding into new areas of the country, Wexford, South Armagh, Kildare

      Reply
    • Why so cowardly shy re your position on RIRA?

      Expanding? lol Word has it that a senior member in Donegal (we both know who I’m talking about) has bailed. Trouble in paradise. :)

      Reply
  • “Since the partition of the country, Irish republicanism has made its number one priority the reunification of the island.”

    Republicanism has nothing to do with territorial unity. The desire for a unified state is nationalism, which is not the same thing at all. Republicanism is a system of government. So-called republicans are putting actual republicanism second, that is the problem.

    Reply
  • It’s fair to say that democracy is a cornerstone of any Republic. The overwhelming majority of the people on this island support the peace process so who exactly do the RIRA represent and who gave them their mandate. True Republicans respect the views of the people, not hide behind masks.

    Reply
  • You’re not going to find any popular support for political and/or military campaign based solely on irredentism. Also, the mere physical union of territory would be pointless if the people are still divided.

    Reply
    • Intermarriage is the normal means by which populations absorb each other. The fear of this happening again was the motive for the planting of Ulster with people who had repulsive feelings towards the indigenous Irish population. Physical action would be the minor part of changing things.

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    • It is ironic, but unsurprising, that the community that introduced republicanism to Ireland would most forcefully oppose it at its birth. Faced with the options of the tyranny of the crown or the tyranny of the majority, Ireland’s minority protestant community choose the crown. The result was a mainly protestant enclave where a minority catholic community had to suffer under the tyranny of a protestant majority.
      In truth, the Irish state made short work of perverting the values of republicanism. In particular, courtesy of the most unrepublican party in the history of the state- Fianna Fail.
      While the state was still in its infancy, the state busied itself ceding sovereignty to any institution that would further the ends of the political opportunists. Initially, to the Catholic church. For most of the twentieth century Ireland was a Sharia catholic nation and particularly uninviting spectacle for moderate or non-catholics. Still today, we have the call to prayer on the state broadcaster at twelve and six o’clock.
      In the Eighties, as the churches influence began to wane, it was the social partners. Today, the ECB and Europe’s bureaucrats.
      Articles 48, 49 & 50 of the free state constitution, which enshrined direct democratic principles to cement the interests of the true sovereign (the citizenry), were removed courtesy of Fianna Fail.
      We have not seen the bottom of this economic crisis. Before we return to prosperity the still bloated financial services sectors, across western economies, will have to return to sustainable dimensions. This will have a more severe impact on Britain’s economy than ours. Although, Ireland has a difficult road ahead, in the short term, we are well placed, demographically, to bounce back more rapidly than our neighbours. If we can learn the lessons of our recent history, correct the political and economic imbalances that impede our development, the prospect of a united Ireland could yet prove a very attractive option to everyone on this island.
      A well written and timely piece from Mr McCann.

      Reply
  • Simon 12/09/12 #

    Good article, some very valid points imo. I wonder whether a united Ireland will even have the same relevance to future generations, I’m assuming an equal society in the north, more integration with other states in the EU, will the border matter so much to our grand kids? As you say it doesn’t look like happening in the next 25 year’s, maybe we’ll all be ‘Europeans’ then… maybe not..

    Reply
  • Ok, a few things.

    First of all, the dissidents are not the face of Republicanism, they are dissidents, a small fraction of a minority.

    Second, every party, EVERY one in the Dail, support the idea of reunification.
    You seem to gloss over the fact since 1922 there was an extraordinary situation in the Northern part of the country, in which the IRA grew as a reaction to attacks on the catholic community. If your theory that the incarnations of the IRA since the Civil war are the result of events at the beginning of the century, the Border Campaign in the 50′s would have been the end of it. After that IRA became known as I Ran Away. To think that just because Republicans of today are only Republicans because of 1916 is simply crazy.

    Finally, you suggest that perhaps those in favour of a Unified Republic start talking about what form it should take, they are, you simply choose to ignore it. In 2006/2007 (can’t remember, SF asked the government to produce a white paper on unification, the government defeated the motion. Several parties on the island have policies as part of their policy platform in relation to unification. Just because they aren’t in the news doesn’t mean they don’t exist, those who are interested should look at policies that are passed at party meetings more closely, this is where you see what their membership wants and you get a much better flavour of what party support for things are than simple press statements.

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  • lt is now time that people started look at what kind of country we want for the future.

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  • Jojo G 12/09/12 #

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHsoPPynIIc

    Even DATA agrees, Irish unification due for 2024, although now that we have a means of peaceful settlement it may take longer, which it must be said, is a more than acceptable trade-off to continued violence

    I don’t mind if it takes until 2050, but it’ll happen, polls change all the time, hell most of the ‘UK’ supported Irish unification during the 1980s.

    Reply
  • Excellent piece.
    I’m a proud Republican & have too long been represented by balaclava’d hoodlums!

    Reply
  • The so called ‘Real IRA’ in North Dublin are funded through extortion and drug dealing themselves. I earlier suggested that it my have been the CIRA that were involved in this man’s killing but it now looks more likely that it was another drug gang.

    Lets be clear about this, there is irrefutable evidence that Alan Ryan, the ‘Real IRA’ and the 32 County Sovereignty Movement are involved in various illicit and illegal activities to fund themselves.

    They may cloak themselves in the language of Irish Republicanism but both their funding sources and their attempts to destabilise and undermine the governments of the Irish-Republic and the Northern Ireland Executive are abhorrent to the overwhelming majority in both constituencies.

    They are cowards, fascists and fantasists.

    Reply
  • M 12/09/12 #

    Shatter is a clown, what was he doing when this funeral was taking place? Sharpening his pencil? He knew well the colour party would be there and that it would be a who’s who of republicans, but he decided to do nothing, cops saw them firing shots, did nothing.. And now after it all he condemns it? If he wants to go after then he can if he wants to, but he won’t

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  • Interesting article. It became abundantly clear through the presidential election that “Irish people” that is those living in the “free state” know nothing of our history. One famous idiot quote came from a woman who asked Martin McGuiness ‘what are you doing down here’. Clearly she was not even familiar with the good friday agreement.

    And the hypocrisy of mousy Kenny going and delivering an oration at the grave of terrorist Michael Collins whilst condemning modern day Republicanism, and FF idolising terrorist De Valera whilst denouncing Republcians shows the dysfunctional and dishonesty of not only these clowns but the Irish electorate too.

    Another reason why republicanism still holds sway in so many working class communities is that they are not represented by anyone in the Dail. This is a failed State. And the main political parties too are financed by extortion and drugs money. Our taxes, which we pay through income tax, tax on booze, tax on cigs, and then paid over to these clowns to support their parties.

    Just another day in lah lah land in Ireland. But good piece David I am not at all surprised that you are from Universtiy of Ulster, and not this backward State.

    Reply
    • censored 12/09/12 #

      Drat – I thumbed up by accident, just as I got to the bit about “this backward State”. Comparing Ireland as a “backward state” to Northern Ireland is worth a laugh at least.

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    • Really? because people in north would say the same thing about the Twenty-Six county state

      Southern partitionists may point to the Orange/Green divide, but Unionists can equally point to the Green Theocracy and the failed economy, clientelism etc etc

      The fact is that both are failed states

      an All-Ireland Republic is the solution

      Reply
    • ”condemning modern day republicanism” you say.Maybe because unlike you mary he takes into account the different society in which we now live.And don’t get me wrong i’m no fan of mr.kenny.And your point about taxes?what do you suggest we pay none and have no services whatsoever?Because that would work excellently wouldn’t it?No doubt you would be the first to complain if that was the case.

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  • Guys look at the hearse, the mourning cars – these aren’t the se as the men who fought for a better ireland in 1916. These are, in my modest opinion, business men who veil their diesel laundering, counterfeit cigarette/sports goods, protection rackets in the name of raising money to fight for a unified Ireland.
    If i walked out in to the middle of a graveyard and fired a shot i would be arrested. This country seems to have one rule for one person and one for another. I could list examples as I am sure we all could but I have better things to do with the rest of my day.

    Btw if that funeral had been in the north and if shots had been fired? Would any of those be still on the street?

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  • My aunt who’s father, my grandfather was active in the war of independence. She said to me once that those people back then were “soldiers and gentlemen”. She went on to say that the IRA (this conversation was over twenty years ago) were nothing but ” drug dealers and gangsters”- her quote. I wonder what my grandfather if he were alive today would think about the paramilitaries today.
    I have a uneasy feeling when people start talking about 1916 and think that these people are carrying on a grand tradition.

    Reply
    • Yes and the Young Irelander John Mitchell called the Fenians ‘worthless bags of gas’ and accused them being out for personal gain

      It’s nothing new for some elements in one generation of Irish Republicanism to frown on the newest one

      Reply
    • censored 12/09/12 #

      That doesn’t mean they are not right Kerron. You cannot compare the situation today with pre-1916 Ireland. It’s absolutely clear these people are criminals who’ve hijacked the republican mantle to cover their reprehensible acts.

      Reply
  • In reply to Eddie Barrett two points: 1. There is and has been no link with Republican Sinn Fein and this grouping. 2. While it is impossible to know what view Austin Stack would take today one can only judge him on his actions and the views he left on the historical record which show that he rejected British rule in all it’s guises including the neo-colonial 26-county state despite the many blandishments of Eamon De Valera and Fianna Fail

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  • The insanely baseless comments and worn platitudes trotted out by the same culprits yet again!

    On the nonsense that was the GFA two points are indisputable: 1. you can’t have a truly democratic political settlement within a nation that is partitioned to be the exact opposite, undemocratic and sectarian 2. The vote was clearly not in favour of the Stormont settlement of today where Orange and Green are locked in a constant grapple for funding are most communities are as segregated as they ever were despite being able to mix in certain areas like central Belfast. That is abnormal.

    The usual liberal nonsense definition of Republicanism as simply a system of governance is being conflated with Irish Republicanism which, at its most basic, asserts a United Ireland of united creeds. Irish Republicanism is its own philosophy. Please stop accepting some half arsed generalised definition you found on wikipedia as the meaning of a mainly Irish idea. Nationalism and Irish Republicanism are the same thing when it comes to the territorial claim. Where they differ and where we might call Irish Republicanism an ‘advanced nationalism’ is that it includes tenets such as uniting Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter and a levelling tradition of offering ‘the greatest happiness for the greatest number’. Nationalism as a stand alone idea could include the nationalism of the ruling class which is inherently unequal and it could also be exclusively Catholic in nature as O’Connell’s nationalism was. Funny how Republicanism always gets the blame for not being inclusive, when in reality in was the constitutional tendency that was the really Green Nationalism while Republicanism right through its history included Protestants in the struggle.

    As for the notion of “the Republicans of old”, this is a notion of the grand “Old IRA” idea conjured up since Partition by the likes of Fianna Fáil to discredit those who still adhered to radicalism while they had capitulated and began to suppress former comrades.

    As for the article, it is rife with misconceptions and ahistorical nonsense, this being the most laughable

    “It seems par for the course now that any meeting which includes the topics of Irish unity or republicanism must come with speakers spouting outdated quotes from revolutionaries delivered more than a century ago”

    How nonsensical is it to demean the Proclamation of 1916 (which was based on a current of thoughts dating back to 1798 and before) and the ideas of past revolutionaries as being out of no significance? Surely the point to modernising ideas and a philosophy is to take the best and most relevant parts from the past and apply them to today?

    How is Cherishing all of the Children of the nation equally outdated exactly? or the land of Ireland for the people of Ireland?

    Maybe if the anti-Republican cynics and those who clearly abandoned Republicanism since Partition and particularly during the “boom” had paid more attention to core Republican beliefs like that Ireland, north and south, wouldn’t be so pitiful today!

    Reply
    • 1916 was the biggest disaster to befall Ireland in the twentieth century. It spawned a culture of political violence that is with us to this day. It set in train the birth of a state that was essentially a theocracy and it’s malign influence on political life is still felt. Look at the sorry state (pun intended) we are in. I’m convinced that had the rising never occurred we would have been far better off. Home Rule and eventual independence – if the majority wanted it – would have come about through peaceful means and we would be living in a far healthier and prosperous society today. Pearse and his fellow fanatics deserve our contempt, not our admiration.

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    • So are you saying that these guys are in the right so? Are you saying that extorting money from innocent Irish business people with menaces is “cherishing all of the children of the nation equally”.

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    • “It spawned a culture of political violence” – really? besides the fact that every generation previously had attempted to assert Ireland’s right to political independence through the use of arms? rubbish point. Read Townshends ‘Political Violence in Ireland’ to see how much it was used in the half-century before the Rising.

      “It set in train the birth of a state that was essentially a theocracy” – LOL. The self-assertiveness of the Catholic Church and its grip on Irish life through its dominance of the education system and religious life had been set in motion by the 1840s and the Devotional Revolution following the Famine. That train stood in opposition to Republicanism constantly, repeatedly calling for its suppression as a dangerous and radical and secular philosophy which challenged the dominance of the pulpit. Another rubbish point.

      “Home Rule and eventual independence” – this is the worst point, and the most ahistorical. You are reading history backwards. If we were to place ourselves in the 1914-1916 period there was no way of knowing the British would guarantee Home Rule to Ireland following the war. The 1916 leaders were conscious that any combination of factors or draconian legislation could block it following the end of WW1. Pearse supported Home Rule up until 1914 did he not?

      “Pearse, fanatics” blah blah. Rubbish attempt to shut debate down.

      Straight out of the anti-nationalist school of Kevin Myers you are. Don’t let historical facts ever get in the way of your agenda pal

      Reply
    • Ok Kerron, just a few poins….

      ’1.you can’t have a truly democratic political settlement within a nation that is partitioned to be the exact opposite, undemocratic and sectarian’

      The GFA has a very clear explanation of the issue of partition. Irish unity is possible when the majority in both the Republic and the North vote for it. (Which thankfully, because of demography wont happen for a very long time, if ever). You, yourself may not accept the legitimacy of partition that this was based on BUT the overwhelming majority of people in the North and The Republic accept this solution the the 1998 referenda and the Irish constitution was alter to reflect this fact.

      If you do not accept the fact of partition that is ok, but to endorse violence to overturn the democratic will of the vast vast majority is fascist.

      ’2. The vote was clearly not in favour of the Stormont settlement of today where Orange and Green are locked in a constant grapple for funding are most communities are as segregated as they ever were despite being able to mix in certain areas like central Belfast. That is abnormal.’

      That depends what you mean by democracy, if you think that democracy is strictly majoritarian in character (i.e. how the unionists dominated NI) then the Northern Ireland Executive fails that test. The basis of the current institutions however is consociational powersharing, this accepts the fact that in deeply divided societies majoritarian democracy is unsuitable because it reduces the minority group to permanent opposition.

      The Northern Ireland Executive undoubtedly has issues with efficiency and representation but what it has done is shifted the conflict from the streets to the floor of Stormont. Surely you can agree that this is a good thing?

      ‘Where they differ and where we might call Irish Republicanism an ‘advanced nationalism’ is that it includes tenets such as uniting Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter and a levelling tradition of offering ‘the greatest happiness for the greatest number’. ‘

      There is n such thing as ‘advanced nationalism’, nationalism by its very definition is exclusionary, the second haf of that statement proves that by saying it wishes to offer ‘the greatest happiness for the greatest number’
      It is inherently undemocratic to force persons into a state that they have no wish to join, no matter how you justify it as ‘rectifying past injustices’

      Reply
    • Kerron,
      I’m afraid that I am one of these people that you might be referring to.
      Generations of my Family have embraced Republican ideals , yes I agree , all the way from Tone – but unfortunately the weakness in your argument is that since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement & subsequent Referendum , these game changers put the onus on every Citizen on the Island to respect and embrace the Democracy overwhelmingly given in that decision.
      Unfortunately Ryan and his Band did not show respect for this decision. In their supposed high jacking of a name, they have pretended, since then, that they are something which they clearly are not – that is Republicans or IRA .
      The Ballot Box would be the true test of your argument – Des Dalton & his Group have clearly gotten hammered in this area by a very wised up voting Electorate – North & South , East & West, on this Island of Ireland.

      It’s been a colossal progress journey since that Good Friday , now Unionism, Nationalism & Republicans are speaking , listening & debating , the future of Ireland – United in their enthusiasm for it – why not join the mighty debate ?

      Reply
    • Aslo just a quick point, Nationalism as a political ideology is rather out of fashion dont you think?

      European integration has slowly been eroding borders and the constant flow of business and people the across the continent to the point where the ‘nation state’ seems rather archaic. Admittedly the economic crisis has slowed this down but to say that it is reversible is nonsense.

      Reply
    • Kerron, any chance you can answer my question or are you afraid to since it totally derails you quite ridiculous logic!

      Reply
    • Kerron,
      I’m afraid that I am one of these people that you might be referring to.
      Generations of my Family have embraced Republican ideals , yes I agree , all the way from Tone – but unfortunately the weakness in your argument is that since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement & subsequent Referendum , these game changers put the onus on every Citizen on the Island to respect and embrace the Democracy overwhelmingly given in that decision.
      Unfortunately Ryan and his Band did not show respect for this decision. In their supposed high jacking of a name, they have pretended, since then, that they are something which they clearly are not – that is Republicans or IRA .
      The Ballot Box would be the true test of your argument – Des Dalton & his Group have clearly gotten hammered in this area by a very wised up voting Electorate – North & South , East & West, on this Island of Ireland.

      It’s been a colossal progress journey since that Good Friday , now Unionism, Nationalism & Republicanism are speaking , listening & debating , the future of Ireland – every day – United in their enthusiasm for it – why not join the mighty REAL debate ?

      Reply
    • I made no comment on the moral dubiousness of extortion from either drug dealers or small business.

      What I was pointing out was the blinkered vision of some who turn a blind eye to the way in which funding was raised by Republicans in the past but condemn those who do similar today

      One example of interest, and a group whom Michael Davitt was fairly certain formed an integral part of Fenianism and who may even have played a role later in the 19th and 20th centuries were the Ribbonmen. They were known for their extortion of not only small business but farmers and labourers too who were forced to “subscribe” a shilling or so to the Ribbon organisation aka the Board of Erin aka the Sons of the Shamrock. Apparently these criminal elements would play a pivotal role in the revolutionary movement due to the position they had maintained over a course of decades in opposition to the establishment.

      The same was true of the Republican revolution in China in which the Triads played a key role in overthrowing the Qing monarchy at the beginning of the 20th century. That doesn’t justify the criminality, but it does put it in context, something which those who are deriding Ryan as only being out for personal gain and a simple thug ought to consider.

      Reply
    • Stick to the topic at hand Kerron and stop attempting to deflect by showing off.

      Reply
    • So when the IRA of today extort money, where does it go exactly. Do they spend all the money defending Irish citizens is it?

      Your logic is silly, if these guys really cared about our nation and its people they would understand that the bigger threat to our nation right now comes from Europe and the dominance of core European countries. I don’t see any balaclava wielding men at any ECB/IMF press conferences, do you? Na, let’s hang on to the “f**k the Brits” logic as our tiny brains have been trained to “enforce” that ideal and trying to introduce something else now would just confuse us. Republicans my backside, don’t insult the memory of fallen republicans who died and fought for a cause other than to generate a few bob so they can have a drink in the pub and a widescreen TV and have an ole reputation for themselves!

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    • “It is inherently undemocratic to force persons into a state that they have no wish to join, ”

      says you, who in the same breathe trumpets the undemocratic mass integration of whole nations into a European Superstate.

      “if these guys really cared about our nation and its people they would understand that the bigger threat to our nation right now comes from Europe and the dominance of core European countries. I don’t see any balaclava wielding men at any ECB/IMF press conferences, do you? Na, let’s hang on to the “f**k the Brits” logic”

      I agree. I think their analysis is off the mark and their militarism and other activities are doing the republican struggle no favours. They would be best off directing their struggle down both avenues, the British and the Troika occupation and focusing on the social rather than a military strategy.

      Reply
    • ‘says you, who in the same breathe trumpets the undemocratic mass integration of whole nations into a European Superstate.’

      Where did I say superstate? Im taking of a ‘Europe of the Regions’, not ‘mass integration’.

      Again however, the logic of the nation state is outmoded and regressive.

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    • Kerron, there are different views of what Republicism is on this island and like all aspects of life views develop, change, merge and shift. The term ‘Republican’ seems to have been taken over by gunmen and their associates/supporters in recent decades. I support the idea of a united Ireland, an equal Ireland where green, orange, blue, black, pink, yellow or whatever you’re having yourself are equal. I can claim those to be republican views but I seriously doubt if you or supporters of RIRA would agree that I’m a Republican unless I support their views. Interestingly enough a lot of them call Adams and co west Brits or traitors and not true Republican.

      The thing is, nobody has a monopoly on Republicanism. You have a view of what it is, SF have a view, FF have a different view, as do RIRA. I don’t care for labels that much so I couldn’t care less if someone disputes an other persons claim that they are Republican or not.

      But let’s get one thing clear, the people of this
      island have decided that enough is enough in terms of war and the killing and maiming of innocent people. A few hundred people don’t have the right to drag our people back to the dark days. Let the peace process continue and use energy building bridges so that we can all live in peace on the island no matter what our background or beliefs.

      Reply
    • Im taking of a ‘Europe of the Regions’

      Yes, and what is a region a part of? a country, a state, a nation

      so Ireland being a “region” means that there has to be some larger entity i.e Europe. How would this group of regions be most likely governed; of course Federally meaning that there would be a state somewhere probably in Brussels or Strasbourg.

      “The thing is, nobody has a monopoly on Republicanism” – well yes Irish Republicans do! Just because there’s a shed load of eejits who are constitutionalist attempting to claim the Irish Republican mantle doesn’t mean that there is no objective criteria that can be applied to being an Irish Republican.

      Certainly it doesn’t mean simply being in the physical force tradition, but there are tenets such as not accepting partition, not administering for either Treaty states in Ireland, retaining social radicalism and not jumping into bed with the rich and the so-called great and the good.

      How do you think a criteria is applied to history for who was Republican and who was Nationalist? how do people distinguish between the nationalism of Parnell and the Republicanism of the Fenians that ran concurrently to the constitutional movement? do you think that ex Fenians like Joseph Biggar were still republicans after they joined the IPP? Of course he may have claimed to be, and the same argument that you’re presenting here was probably also being used i.e the different interpretations, but historians look back on that period and see a continuous tendency with the same traits in Irish Republicanism. When historians look back on this period the actual Irish Republicans of today will also be vindicated!

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    • Have you ever heard the word Obfuscation Kerron?

      ‘How would this group of regions be most likely governed; of course Federally meaning that there would be a state somewhere probably in Brussels or Strasbourg.’

      Yes, federal government that is democratically elected and devoid of national intrest.

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    • Oh god,

      If it’s a Federal Government then where is its centre? Its centre will act as a state! Unless you’re envisioning some sort of Libertarian or neo-liberal free for all, which wouldn’t surprise me

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    • Your mixing up state with nation state.

      A state is simply an administrative entity. Like the current EU commission and parliament.

      Admittedly these need some reform to increase democratic legitimacy.

      You seem to be suggesting that, for example, because Washington is the capital of the American Federation, that the Federal administration is somehow biased towards DC.\

      Which is silly.

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    • The EU is clearly stacked in favour of the larger nations like France and Germany

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  • No wonder the north wouldn’t want to join the south, have you seen the state of the kip down here?

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    • Don’t know why so many red-thumbs!?! That’s exactly the reason they don’t want to join!! You only have to look at the difference in health-care alone to make your skin crawl…!!

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    • Phill 12/09/12 #

      Have you ever been up North? At least we had a boom time, for all the good it did us. It’s always been grim up there.
      At a purely economic level look at the flow of subsidy from the UK to Northern Ireland. At a social level look at the long term unemployment and standard of living.

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    • Join the South? Reunification with the 26 counties?… If your vision of a united Ireland is simply replacing Westminster rule with Dublin rule, then you’re not putting forward much of an offer. The Irish Republic needs to abandon the limitations of two failed political entities and instead be based on broader republican principles, eg justice, equality, liberty, the right to pursue happiness, social solidarity etc.

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    • I wish we could join and avail of the best benefit system in Europe, 3 times more than us poor folk up north so bring it on.

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    • By all accounts a lot of ye already are! Joining the south currently means the North would also be forfeiting access to abortion etc. It’s all about perception and at t moment to the UK the Republic of Ireland is almost Greece, at least the UK for it’s lack of growth is a fiscally stable country!

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    • Is it? We’re having some fiscal issues in the Republic right now. Britain was forced into an IMF bailout in 1976. Stop running our country down and presenting the current situation as if it is a uniquely Irish tragedy. It’s not.

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  • Republican = a goon in a mask and black beret wearing dark glasses,holding a gun and intent on killing someone. Far removed from what true republicanism should be of course but that is the image that various “republicans” have created over the years. When I hear someone described as a republican I assume that he/she has either a criminal record or criminal tendencies. The term has been tainted beyond repair. I prefer to call myself a democrat.

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    • censored 12/09/12 #

      Well, that suits your agenda. As you said above, you’re one of those who think that 1916 was “a disaster” so I have to think you’re actually perfectly happy with these goons hijacking republicanism. I’m a republican and I believe in republican ideals. That doesn’t make me a non-democrat, or a goon.

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  • I would draw your attention to the Eire Nua programme proposing a federal Ireland based on the principle of maximum decentralisation of decision making including a parliament for a nine county Ulster. The Unionist commentator David Adams acknowledged Eire Nua as the only credible attempt by Irish Republicans to set out in real terms what a 32-county Irish Republic would mean.

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    • Des,
      What connection is there between the Party that you represent and the Ryan group of extortionists and drug gangsters? If there is a connection.
      I ask that as a lifetime Republican myself, whose Grand Uncle , Austin Stack , is turning , I’m sure , in his Glasnevin grave , that a breakaway group of individuals , who refused to accept the overall great wishes of all of the voting Citizens of All Ireland in the Good Friday Agreement and who are more intent on abusing the restored good name of Republicanism, might now please go away!

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    • Des, this has been said for forty odd years but nothing has ever come of it. Éire Nua may well have its positives and could certainly act as a starting point for discussions about the future. The problem surely, is that by continuously seeking to legitimise some form of ‘armed struggle’ RSF are themselves preventing meaningful interaction with those that they need to be in discussing Éire Nua with?

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    • Jojo G 12/09/12 #

      Eddie, your Grand Uncle was an anti-treaty IRA member. Therefore he also rejected the ‘overall great wishes of all Ireland’ I’m not saying this as a snarl, as I tend to agree that the anti-treaty side held the legal and moral high ground. My personal reasoning for that is that the treaty was voted on under the threat of immediate war, a threat made by the British monarch, and therefore, like all signatures made under duress, legally void.

      However I’m also disgusted at the current hijacking of the movement by mafia-republicanists. But even if the movement had remained pure to the ideals of the 1922 anti-treat IRA, I would tend to agree that Austin Stack and his compatriots might conclude violence is counterproductive at the present them.

      By the way, anyone notice how Marion Price is currently being interned in prison?

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    • @jojo yeah its a disgrace that marion price is still in prison.it needs to be highlighted by our media.i wont hold my breath though.

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  • I still can’t shake the feeling that they must of got some sort of go a head from the Garda. I just find it hard to believe that they would do nothing while people were shooting guns right there in front of them?

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  • I still can’t shake the feeling that they must of got some sort of go a head from the Garda. I just find it hard to believe that they would do nothing while people were shooting guns right there in front of them.

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  • At least these men stand up for what they believe in and don’t lay down to be walked upon like so many of the “law abiding citizens” of this once great state. Bow to your fuhrer.

    Reply

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