Helena,
good for you. As I mentioned financial implications are a huge part of the burden, but it would also help with anyones mental health not having to worry so much. Working even for small amounts exposes you to work colleagues and possible new friends and increases your social network.

Lets hope it continues good for you.

Thanks Shane,
The political class and senior policy makers need a reality check and hopefully some of the opinions on here can only add to the debate.

Well put Brian..even the hired help from orther countries have now baled out themselves!!..:-)..

Would love to see that show, don’t think it would even last a week. If it did the politician would be looking for huge expenses so rte couldn’t afford to produce it in the first place

That’s the stark reality right there.

“or else they are jobs which seek to exploit people who are desperate offering them great opportunities at the start only to suck them in to low paid exploitative jobs in the knowledge that the worker can’t leave because it will reflect badly on them in the dole office”

This may be true in a way but you can’t expect to get plum jobs when you come out of long term unemployment. If you think that the only job worth taking is a non-stressfull, full time pensionable job with full benefits and pay that is 3 times higher (at Purchasing Power Parity) than the equivalent wage in Poland, then part of the problem is yourself.

Giovanni I am not in any way talking about as you say plum jobs. I am talking about jobs that you see advertised as “Managerial positions” working for key blue chip companies, opportunity to travel, basic plus uncapped commission (translate €200 a week then you are on your own) own transport plus broadband required expenses paid (sometime in the next year). Anyone who has applied to these jobs knows what I am talking about. No one is looking for plum jobs Giovanni they are just looking for a job. I, just this minute, applied for a job at the same scale that I was on 15 years ago but which I would gladly take in the morning. In fact I don’t even think that there is such a thing as a plum job any more. Just look at jobs.ie for example or the jobs section of your paper and you will spot the companies fairly quickly, They are the ones that in a country with massive unemployment are turning over staff at a massive rate.

That’s something i would love to see but unfortunately the government have proven time and time again that they just don’t hear us. Irish Sopa Household tax no more bank bail outs etc. Seems to me there’s not even any point protesting cause they are not one bit interested in us or our troubles. They keep announcing new jobs – its a joke at this stage. I apply for at least 3 a day but the competition is so fierce. You won’t even be considered for an admin job unless you have experience in a particular industry i.e. pharmaceutical, food, medical etc. Oh and by the way what the heck is cloud computing? The jobs the government have been announcing are the jobs they are trying to bring people in from other countries to do. If it came down to it I’d happily clean houses to get by but i would’nt even be considered for that despite cleaning my own since a child.

Very valid comments, however you are forgetting R.T.E and most of the big players in the media are either owned by the state or controlled by the politicans. they would do nothing or say anything that was not in the best interest of the politicans(of all parties)
Plus all the (ahem) lowly paid advisors each and every politican have at their disposal would certainly not santion this, where would they fit in??

Hello!

“How much did Mr.O’Snodaigh spend on ink over the last few years?
An amount more than 5 years of dole payments for some claimants

A reality check is badly needed in Dail Eireann”

Spot On!

It was spent on ensuring he gets re-elected. If I ran my household the way they run the Dail (not to mention the country) I’d be on the streets years ago. Apart from the fact that I don’t believe him.

There will be no jobs recovery for tens, if not hundreds of thousands. ‘Existing’ whilst looking at walls … sounds like a prison sentence to me.

Very well said!!

Well said! Society as a whole needs to help everyone get to work.

Discouraging those few that take advantage of the benefits is not the most important part, although I find them as galling as tax dodgers.

But let’s face it, you can’t just legislate high wages. A lot of Irish businesses have gone bust because they can’t pay the wages that their workers need to live at the standard we have grown accustomed to, while their competitors elsewhere have much lower manpower costs.

The global equalisation of income does not just mean the world’s poorer countries becoming richer, but also the world’s richer countries becoming poorer. And that is us. It means that unless an Irish factory worker is twice as efficient as a Polish one, he can’t expect to be paid twice as much.

We now have to pay for 10 years of financially engineered excess that benefited a few and will be paid for by the many. And that is very unfair. But that is a blip. The longer trend is that there is no reason for us to be richer than the Poles, and we won’t be for long.

Social Welfare payments are not above the Poverty Threshold Examples according to the EU statistics. Also comparisons with other countries is unfair if we want a balanced debate. Would you compare our public transport system to Ugandas or Sudans?

Alan: comparison with other countries is essential if we think of the economic prospects of Ireland as a whole. Nobody will buy our products and services if they cost more without being better. And that’s a fact you can’t legislate against.

I don’t understand your point about public transport. Our wages are much higher than Poland’s at Purchasing Power Parity. We just expect too much. Witness how someone here has included “Sky TV” as part of the basic standards of living that should be guaranteed by law.

I know I am opening a can of worms here, but public sector wages, being politically set rather than set by market forces, are the “hard shoulder” that prevent deflation and thus competitiveness gain in Ireland. High public sector wages mean that the same work has to be paid for with higher taxes on everything else, or that the same taxes pay for less workers resulting in a decrease in the quality of public service as well as overworked public sector workers.

@Giovanni Giusti
I agree with comparisons, but we must seek countries with similar problems, similar issues to see how they address their problems. I wont get into the export driven issue as this will bust like the property one as i have mentioned in my blog.
My point about the transport is for example comparison only e.g. lets compare like for like or similar systems as above.
We ( I )expect that the state should assist thee most vulnerable in society, otherwise their role within the constitution as the “thrid parent” does not exist. Sky comment doesnt apply to me or many, generalisation.
As for the public sector wages, well I dont view it as a THEM V US situation, although it helps some sections of the public to fight against another to protect their own, but our own should mean all of us.

You nailed it with that quote!

Thanks Eoghan,
I have offered opinions and strategic plans to tackle the issue, but because im unemployed they really dont want to be as they feel “shown up” hence they declined my approaches to discuss the matter. If I were a senior Barrister i think i might have had some say.

As for other ways to be active, I do my bit where I can, but until root a branch reform of all structures in Ireland take place, I will unfortunately be kept on the fringes.

That should have read’ We should alLshow solidarity with the UNEMPLOYED.

@Kerrysprit Chris,
Thanks. I don’t envie the wealthy, (good luck to them) however what does affect us is we have no voice or proper mechanism to air our views and to be taken seriously. When social welfare was introduced into Ireland, it was envisaged that it would provide a “safety net” for those who couldnt get employment and to assist the most vulnerable in society. This was the perception and reality of that time. Now a few people in power view it as us spongers who dont want to work.

I hope that the scheme has given you some sense of community and that you dont have to languish on te dole like many today.
Best of Luck.

You are very welcome….what we need again is community spirit and assisting each other….this is what is lacking since the boom everywhere…Me either I dont envy the rich ones but the gap is really getting more and more unreal!
http://www.mail.com/int/business/markets/1097458-europe-growth-amid-high-unemployment.html#.1097570-stage-related1-2
How can people give a thumbs down on explaining the desperate situation of one person who is also suffering…something is defenitely wrong!!!! Good luck for us all anyway from my heart! ;-)

Lads,

I volunteer for a business that I support. They are a social entrepreneurs. I love it. It gets me out. IF real small struggling Irish companies offered the ‘stuck at home and deranged by it’ cohort a chance to get out, do a bit for the economy, the business and themselves a huge pressure valve would release. Problem is social welfare payment rules.

I believe (know) there is massive untapped energy in the dole queues and it is held back by bureaucrats. If a ‘Michael O’Leary’ style character was allowed at these two groups a lot could be done for the local economy.

You are both right about community spirit. It is there and held back by rules.

In hope.

Great said Jack, like the way as you describe it – gives hope! And thats what its all about – hope, faith and community support not ONLY for family members but COMMUNITY with everyone in it! Not ALWAYS moaning moaning and complaining. Its easy to get draught into that – me included – lets stay positive as the people of the country and do something together and let the big ones do their crap = earlier or later they will get the bill anyway!!!!!! ;-)

Paul,
I agree. It should be said that not all employers are exploiting the system, but those that do wont be punished or have any negative implications as FAS cannot control the current system, nor can they adequately supervise the participants as it would mean watching the employer practices as well.

@Anne Brady
Thanks for the kind words Anne. As you may have read there is more happening for us than JUST being unemployed. When government and the powers that be realise this then maybe just maybe they might act. Reading your piece, Im saddened that people dont see us as valued members of society and ensure that we are helped. Your situation is difficult, so when i read the last line, I only thought that I can only wish that the same happens you and sooner rather that later.
Best wishes and lets HOPE that something good can come of the opinions expressed on here.

I know of people who claimed to be separated/estranged just to beat that dumb rule. Whatever about the payments issue, but to be required to be on a payment to be on a course. For that system to work everybody who goes on a course has to get a job from it, directly. Or they’d always be on courses. That doesn’t happen does it?
(tongue has punctured cheek)

@Chelseajoe
I agree totally with you. Work provides with Human interaction and a social network. As for you not having stories to tell, I’d say that you have a very important one – “the situation you face now”. Many dont want to hear your story, but many more do. Politicians and Policy Makers need to hear these stories as they dont have a proper insight into what its really like being unemployed, so maybe its up to us to TELL THEM.
My pet dog kept e sane as well haha. All i can say is that your story maybe different to mine but similarities can be more than our differences.
P.S. If you want your story to be heard use what ever means available to you and get it out there so the rest of the country & society can understand better.
Cheers Joe. P.s. Im a Liverpool fan so I also know what its like to have hard times!!!

This seems to be an excellent concept . I can understand the function of the ECB — and quite clearly there must be loads of people who would be delighted to take up JG employment . What is unclear seems to be the mechanism / agency that would link the employee to the minimum wage .The recent gross abuse of funding to help long term unemployed in UK by A4e chairman Emma Harrison implies that distribution of funding would require rigorous policing to avoid private individuals /companies making personal immense dividends for themselves . In case you haven’t read about this — A4e Chairman Emma Harrison shared £11million in dividends with her fellow directors in ONE YEAR — of which she pocketed a cool £8.6 million . Her company is being investigated over another matter — but it has been reported that “She has done nothing wrong ” Meanwhile her company failed to meet its planned objectives in finding “Work opportunities for long term unemployed !!

Mike and Rene,
good comments, however the fundamental vulnerability of the unemployed is sourcing employment that is appropriate in order to provide sustainable employment thus covering ‘ordinary living expenses’. Your point assume that if the ECB and the JG is applied that it will have an enhanced social dividend. Possibly, unfortunately the experience of Western Societies is that few if any have ever applied such theories in a regional manner to ensure that everyone had the same access, benefit and opportunity. Simple example the Average industrial wage is based on Eastern Sea Board wages, NOT western where wages which have been historically lower. Therefore any initiative must be given the same credentials across the board. Blanket policies dont work, but regional ones DO.
My overall point is that we have floundered in any initiative primarily due to the complete incapacity of proper delivery. Targeted focus on specific sectors is commendable, but the delivery often lets it down because of the inept mechanisms.
Aggregate Demand does not mean that there will be jobs for everyone, it purely can be an exercise that we have loads of jobs. Having loads of jobs might be fine, but that wont address the fact that it must be appropriate to the market and employment sector e.g. Space Station based in Athlone with jobs only accessable by American educated & based individuals.
Bit of an Oxy Moran.

@ Rene

The adminstration would be a relatively simple matter & require a very small staff which could run as a satellite office under the auspices of a central Eurozone authority or by structures within individual governments, with appropriate auditing standards. It could even be administered by existing social welfare departments. The JG wage would be the same throughout. All in all a very simple system to operate.

I see no need for some private, money skimming behemoth like A4E. That was/is a politically motivated scam right from the start.

The lead organisations would be voluntary/NGO sector organisations applying for JG workers to assist their activities, based on agreed standardised criteria. Again perodic auditing would required, but wages would be handled centrally away from the NGOs etc., direct to JG participants. Again this is quite similar to CE schemes except full time not part time, and of course financed by the ECB as currency issuing authority.

Essentially, the JG scheme puts a solid ‘floor’ under employment. No one goes without a job who wants one at a basic wage.

In practice, over the full business cycle (a few years) we might expect the numbers in JG jobs to fluctuate between, say, 1 or 2 % of the workforce, and perhaps 4 or 5 %. Not only does this give citizens considerably greater financial stability, but it will very likely give much greater stability in all other areas of the economy too.

Note that MMT economics is otherwise ‘agnostic’ on the relative size of public/private sector in the economy. (The JG is +not+ part of the either sector in the normal sense.) What it does do is to maximise productive activity by maintaining aggregate spending & jobs in the downturn part of the cycle. The question then becomes one of how we share resources among citizens, to be decided in (hopefully a much better functioning) democratic fashion.

Alan

I’m not at all clear on the points you’re making?

The point is not what JG participants do, except to work so many hours in return for a basic level (around minimum) wage, that they will inevitably spend into the economy. That spending +will+ stimulate increased private sector activity. If you are suggesting that it might not lead to enough new jobs in participants’ locality, that is partly true. But this is no different to the present anyway & would need to be addressed by similar means if we wish to tackle it. In the mean time people, as now, will often relocate to take up work, but I’d suggest for Irish people that would probably mean our main urban centres like Dublin & Cork rather than Australia or Canada.

A very serious issue is the variously historic, existing & inherent imbalances in productive ability (in money value terms) between Eurozone states, without any ability to reconcile these thru’ currency exchange rate differences. This needs tackling too. Whilst the JG is no panacea for this or other structural problems, it can produce a far quicker economic recovery, which puts us in a far better situation to begin dealing with all the other problems of a very badly designed currency union. Problems that is, except for the top few percent who have made sure they ‘win’ whatever the fate of the rest of us.

As I indicated above in reply to Rene, the question, arguably principally, for democratic government, is how we best make use of our resources. Matching the skills available in the work force to societies needs is always a part of that process. JG doesn’t change anything there except helping to get rid of extended periods of moderate to high unemployment & the complete waste that entails for all concerned. One example I alluded to above is the fact that Ireland has completely stopped infrastructure investment spending. This +will+ incur unecessary costs into the future – a false economy forced on us thru’ unecessary ‘austerity’. If we don’t upgrade our schools to be more energy efficient now, for example, we are going to be allocating more of our resources in future on importing expensive energy resources at increasing prices.

Some may still find themselves better off on benefits than JG, but I’d suggest given the demographics of unemployment in young single people for example, I think a great many +would+ take up JG. Economic growth might take slightly longer to recover, if some don’t, but I’m sure it would be enough to push the economy solidly in the right direction & in due course provide new higher paying vacancies as well.

Even our Dept of Finance, never shy of spinning an optimistic picture, are suggesting more than 14% unemployment for another 5 years at least. (I suggest a decade or more with present policies is more realistic.)

How long do you want to be unemployed, or your children for that matter?

I don’t mean to be critical, please don’t take this the wrong way. But if you think you have +any+ insights into ‘macro’ economics (of whole economies/countries) thru’ what you see as the ‘common sense’ of household or business budgetting, then you have flawed thinking straight off. Google ‘fallacy of composition’ and you will begin to know why. Probably, this is politicians’ biggest & most expensive failing (and they have many) by a big margin. Mainstream economists, who themselves bear considerable responsibility for the ongoing crisis, haven’t helped much either. (Most work, well remunerated, for the financial sector, so their might be a clue as to ‘why’ there.)

Mike,
this is where we disagree. My societal issues are based on developing our community resources (not financial) to impact on the negative aspects of economic policy. Not banner waving or anything as simple as this. your belief is that we need to create a demand to fulfil supply and implement an economic theory. This theory whilst based in circumspect thinking may work. However my concern is that many will suffer in the intervening period and even then it will not address the substantive issue facing us (the unemployed / vulnerable) i.e. lack of adequate support, lack of actual empathy and a complete change in structural policies that impinge on us.

If your theory was implemented, which in all likelihood it wont, then we remain in the same predicament. As for economists & blaming someone, we deserve more than current (filling your pocket) politicians.
Hope this is plain enough and apologies if I wasn’t overly clear earlier as I wanted to keep on topic and not into an economic (macro/micro) discussion that gets plenty of air time though other media sources!

I like your virtuous circle idea. I, for one, would happy to forfeit €50 of my wages a week in taxes for this purpose alone. Not for rubbish, but Defo for this. This is righteous thinking. It would be slow to start because of the exponential nature of it, but once it took off it would be golden. It wouldn’t have to be low end jobs either. If you’re training as whatever ya get the same. Like jobsbridge, but with some documentation to prove what ya’ve learnt. Scrap Fas, pay real third level, or plc providers instead. Properly accredited institutions will teach much more without the waste. If this is going to be a knowledge economy, people need retraining. Might as well do it now while jobs are thin on the ground, but do it right. Let me be clear, I wouldn’t advocate forced work/learning, but taking opportunities definitely would separate wheat from chaff in a natural way.

@ Aidan

Thanks for your comments.

I don’t see why training or education could not be incorporated but note that the numbers on the scheme are not intended to be permanently high (even tho’ the job ‘guarantee’ must be just that – open ended, & as you say entirely voluntary for participants).

Besides the social purpose of enhancing the work that the voluntary & charity sector does (which we cannot generally justify, financially, by any other means in normal circumstances), the important aspect is to stimulate ‘demand’ in the ‘normal’ economy by the fact of JG participants spending power (over & above what their welfare benefits would provide now).

In stimulating thus the growth of the ‘normal’ economy (& hence jobs market), it is intended that JG participants will move to ‘normal’ occupations naturally, as new jobs are created, incentivised by higher wages. (JG wages must be around statutory minimum wage for this incentive to work.)

Also, because we need to increase the aggregate spending power in the whole economy (this is what GDP growth is) we do not want to simply move spending from one place to another. Which would be the effect of you (& others), voluntarily or by taxation, shifting €50 each from your normal spending to this scheme. Do you see the circular nature of things in the ‘macro’ economy here?

Normally, ‘new’ money enters the economy, & enables it to grow, when banks, collectively, lend more than is repaid from previous loans made. (When banks make loans they ‘create’ new money – bank ‘deposits’ are irrelevant to this process. Most people do not realise this.)

But the problem we have at present is that when overall spending is going down, few private sector businesses are prepared to ‘jump’ first & kick start the process by borrowing to invest in increasing their output (hiring more workers). They (reasonably) see customers either not prepared to buy any more of their goods or actually buying less.

If we still had our own currency, our government could step in, as the sovereign currency +issuer+, and create the money needed to finance the JG scheme entirely free of debt or interest obligation. We lost this ability when we joined the Euro. But their is no reason the Euro issuing authority – the European Central Bank (ECB) – could not do it. The ECB has just ‘created’, out of thin air, ~ €1,000 billion and given it to banks (the ‘LTRO’). Nominally, the banks are required to repay it after 3 years. But 3 years is a long time. The likelyhood of these ‘loans’ being rolled over indefinitely is extremely high.

If our Euro system can look after the banks’ wellbeing, why can it not look after ‘real’ people? Who is our economic system supposed to serve? All of us, or just the banks & top few percent?

Across the Eurozone, counting both the ‘official’ (understated) unemployment & those able and seeking work, some 20% (1 person in every 5 !) have no job available to them. What good is this? Not only is it a disaster for the 1 in 5 jobless themselves, it is a disaster for the rest of us, because we lose their productive contribution to society right now, and long into the future, as skills & development atrophy.

Over the last 4 years, private sector business has demonstrated totally it is not collectively willing to stimulate & grow our economy. How much longer are we going to wait whilst our prosperity is ruined? Another 5 years? A decade? A whole generation of our children?

There is a long history of this maladministration in Ireland. There was +no+ reason to have high unemployment in the past & no reason now either. It’s purely the economic system we choose – or rather the economic system chosen for us by the top few percent who +do+ gain, at our expense from what we have now.

If we want change, we have an opportunity to open this debate by voting NO to the ‘fiscal compact’ which is just going to give us more of the same.

(Note to Alan above – this ‘theory’ is not mine, I gave the links above to the originators & extensive body of work proving its feasibility.)

@ Mike Sorry should have been clearer, €50 or so I was referring to was my Universal Social Charges. I feel that I would be much happier seeing it spent thusly. Presently I can’t see what it provides, that is, what that’s new does it provide.

@ Aidan

Yes, I appreciate what you’re saying & doubly so the sentiments & motivation you express.

What I’m trying to get across is that if you spend that €50 into the economy, or the government takes it off you & spends it, amounts to the exact same thing in terms of achieving growth in the economy as a whole? (It would of course reduce the hardship of those without jobs, but ultimately we need to provide the jobs & make the whole ‘pie’ bigger for everybody.)

To grow & get more jobs in the economy we need to get more money spent into the economy overall. This is what happens naturally as GDP grows. But the money that we would otherwise have to spend is being drained from us to repay the loans our gov took on to cover banking losses.

The only other source of spending comes from those who buy our export goods. This did rebound after the ‘crash’, but is slowing now as more austerity is applied in our (Euro & UK) trading partners’ countries. Moreover, our MNC export sector tends not to be labour intensive or buy its ‘inputs’ from within Ireland much. So, all we’ve done thus far is about ‘evens’, with our domestic economy still shrinking. Whilst at the same time our debt interest burden is still rising. This is going to be self-defeating & will inevitably spiral down away from sustainability. The more spending we lose, the more jobs we lose which again means less spending & less jobs & so it goes on.

The mainstream economics profession has a great deal to answer for in not either informing the public properly or even in many cases properly understanding banking or currency operations or how the real economy works. Unfortunately, the financial sector employs most economists & has ‘captured’ a great deal of the academic area too. I know that sounds a somewhat far fetched statement to make. But, sadly, after a great deal of studying of those few economists who forecast the global & euro system crises, I’m afraid to say it appears absolutely true.

Sky TV is not a basic human right is it?

Oh and PS I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if the payments are cut by a quarter in the next (be that mini or max) budget

@Aul Doll
Thanks for offering that side of the story. If I work 1 hour in a day then we are considered “inelligable” for payment of dole for that day.
One of the things I was calling for back in 2002/3 was that Staff in Social Welfare would be able to tell claimants exactly what they were entitled. But often they were referred to an information officer who most likely weren’t available due to only having one maybe in 1 out of 10 offices.
I dont think from my view that people hold any ill will towards the staff in Social Protection offices (even if we do get angry with staff) as its as you rightly point out the RULES that tie your hands. However this doesnt help those who need help at that time and some are put off by the constant form filling or checks or reviews or meetings. If you werent clued into what to expect then many get such a shock at the desk they all but give up. The percentage that dont claim what they can is quite large.
As for FAS well they are a completely different animal that for me are all but spent as any recognisable force of assistance.
Thanks for your perspective.

No offense but you seem to have a awful lot of time to be watching what your neighbour is up to,do you know his full circumstances.If you feel he is defrauding the system and you can prove it report him,but why post it here?

Rossa,
there is always the exception to the rule. What Im suggesting is that there are far more people suffering than is often portrayed. The arguements put out there often suggest its a “them V us” view, which needs to change. There are people in unemployment or workers who exploit the system, but they are in the minority as statistical evidence suggests. What I would like for all is Fairness applied to everyone regardless of working or not.

You’re crazy. What exactly does ‘minimised’ mean?

So that’s your answer Mark minimize benefits even more and punish everyone because of a few scroungers. You want to put the money into community based schemes. So let me get this straight. You want to take even more money off someone on €188 a week and put it into, lets say, making your town pretty for the next tidy town competition! You talk about the people who have never paid into the kitty, what about those of us who have paid for years and I would venture a guess that those people make up a very large proportion of the current unemployed. You want to beat us down even more! I mean did you even read the article?

I have a better suggestion for you, if you are so concerned about community based projects how about the State tax’s you more and puts it into the community. After all you are working and I am sure you would have no problem in sharing the burden until Ireland and it’s workforce can get back on their feet.

There were 100000 on the dole during the boom not 200000. Get your facts straight Mark before you squeak any more shite.

Just to let you know there was just over a 100k on social during the boom there is now 450k on social welfare not really 50% is it?

Also to add that there are thousands who don’t appear on the live register because they are in receipt of a payment from the social welfare but reside outside the figures. Also my wife doesn’t appear on those figures as she is not in receipt of any welfare despite been unemployed however my wages put her outside the limit of the means test.

And Mark, It would appear that we had more people in the country during the boom than we have today due to emigration.
Lets not forget the ones who emigrated to find employment. Funny thing is with St.Patricks day just over 2 weeks away, these emigrants will still celebrate the land that MADE the refugees! All because they’re not proud of what our country is going through, but of where they are from!

I wonder where you work Mark; you have an interesting attitude to this subject for someone who works with people who are ‘all about their entitlements’ but have ‘never paid into the kitty’ as you put it. It must be a really non judgemental service you provide… Entitlements are just that by the way, entitlements are conferred on people by the legislation of the state based on their circumstances. And when you say minimise benefits, what you’re actually talking about is starving people, because lets be clear, if you don’t have money to provide for yourself, you lose your ability to provide shelter and feed yourself and your family. There are food services around the country that literally prevent those with no means from starving. Is that what you think should happen to those who ‘never paid into the kitty’?

Mark you say your dealing with people looking for their entitlements… Do you think its right people have to fight for what their “entitled” too ??
You make a very valid point that more needs to be done in putting money in community based projects to help long term unemployed .

The real figure of the unemployed is far higher, look at those on Springboard schemes or Internships, they still basically get the dole but aren’t in the live register.

Also look at all those that emigrated that would of been on the dole, 76,000 left in 2011 alone.. not to mention those that have left in the previous years.

Yes I agree there was and always will be a residual amount on the dole but even in the boom times jobs weren’t falling out of the trees, plenty of people had to emigrate even then because the opportunities they wanted weren’t available in Ireland.

I think attitudes change big time when people find themselves out of work, I remember a girl giving out that those “scroungers” on the dole should reimburse her for the extra tax she was paying out, a few months later she was out on her ear and you can bet she wasn’t blasting those out of work anymore…

For nearly 5 years between 2003 – 2007 the country was at about 4% unemployment, economically regarded as full employment. We shipped people in we had that many jobs. Unemployed today ~430,000 ~14.5%. That means about 120,000 can’t or won’t work.

Jesus Mark, …….cut down on the caffeine a bit……..!

Thanks
If you are interested in this maybe have a read of my blog as it has other articles that may interest you
alanmcmenamin.wordpress.com

I agree with your comment that the discussion is frank and its something that needs to be more to the fore given we have almost half a million unemployed and many more besides. Some comments you may not agree with, but at least people are taking the time to engage and this initself is a positive move.
Pity more media outlets dont want to engage like this.
Michael Freeman Staff writer with the Journal.ie was the instigator for this and a big thanks to him for seeking these stories out!!!!!!!

For positive action to happen there are a few things that need to be motivated.

1. The individual needs to be motivated and supported (many can motivate themselves, but MANY CANT)
2. The state must provide the conditions for employer to create employment (not enough is being done at the minute)
3. The welfare system must provide a safety mechanism for those trying (unlike previous self employed who now get nothing)
4. The mindset of society and how they view, treat and accept people who are unemployed needs to change.
5. Each person who is unemployed has different skill sets, different levels of knowledge, different personal home circumstances, differing Needs, therefore a targeted approach to individualism should be adopted.

I could put another 100 points on here, but a fundamental point that nobody has mentioned yet and its, IF you dont support people who are unemployed , then dont Hinder them either.

@Lisa,
Firstly the vacancies are in sectors that I havent trained for, but have experience in a few. There isnt enough room on this website to mention all the varying jobs I have applied for, ranging from Petrol Pump attendant to Supervisory work. I have a full desk of “Regret letters” so thanks for the HELP.
I didnt make any excuses as I am sure you read the article at the top first. I dont rent as I have a mortgage and no passport. As for “…stop wasting your life” comment, thanks as this isnt a constructive comment as whilst I may be unemployed, it doesnt mean Im wasting my life or am not busy, but if you’d like to assume that fair enough.
I can see what your point is aiming at, however even the most proactive of us are still struggling, needless to say many dont want to appreciate that this is a reality for some of us. If it comes across as a complaint, well people can take it like this.
If you were in my shoes, you might see my options are limited, even those available to me are still limited and YES I am exploring them all to the enth degree.
Lastly I never said that i was PLANNING to stay on the dole and frankly I dont know of anyone who is of this ilk and for you too assume that this is what Im am doing is complete incorrect.
Regardless, thank you for your comment and best wishes.

Alan, again, you have entirely the wrong attitude. Yes, it’s horrible, hundreds of thousands of us have been there, scraping to get by, but what’s the point in writing about how hard it is? Anyone who has or is going through it knows what’s involved. What is more instructive is to do what I advised, find out where the vacancies are, pick what suits you best, of them, and then train up. If you can’t get a job now, you know you need to find a new career area. There are thousands applying for the factory, petrol pump, tesco, etc. jobs so it’s useless to wait around for something to show up. Go out there and re-train. Fas actually have lots of courses in IT, Construction, etc. and yoy can learn loads and loads and loads online, information wise. Also, bluebrick- come on, free university courses in science, IT, etc. You need to get onto something like that and get out of the rut, Hard work and action. Go for it. And like I said, I have chosen a lesser favourite area of mine BECAUSE there are opportunities there. What’s stopping you? You’re clearly not happy on the dole. Change it.

Lisa D,

I think you have totally misrepresented Alan’s article. It seems you have failed to read the article in detail and you are just taking the moral highground. You have put forward solutions that exemplifies your notion of unemployment in Ireland and how it directly affects lives- most are impracticable and very haughty.

You indicated that he is making excuses, I did not see this at all, rather his position is a reasonable argument about the failures of government policy in addressing the severe challenges that the long term unemployed people face in this country. Most attempts to get people back to work has been superficial and policies are fundamentally flawed; I will give an example: you mentioned FAS courses, even the government acknowledges that the organisation is not fit for purpose and has failed to provide the relevant courses that give participants the necesary transferable skills to increase employability and neither do they provide adequate support for trainees.

Interestingly, you suggest that Alan and other unemployed people emmigrate to other countries. You say this like it is free to travel and set up shop in another country without funds. Trust me, it can be very expensive and a very difficult experience to go to another country even if it is ‘next door’ without a reliable network.

‘Get a hostel in London’ you said- you are so full of yourself and very brash. Who would pay for it? And what is the assurance he will get a job? You make it sound as if London is awash with jobs, in fact, on the contrary the UK is struggling with unemployment as well! Even locals are finding it exponentially cumbersome in finding gainful employment; it is so easy to sit on a high horse and castigate/vilify others without providing solutions.

Alan has shared his own story. Can you share yours?

@Lisa
Lisa its pricely your attitude that doesnt help. My point is that society in general terms dont appreciate the lengths I or others in my situation are going through. I have been on many different courses covering different sectors, but you fail to recognise this. I have done online courses, free courses, fee paying courses, distance learning courses, participated in online webnars, and believe me i could keep going. Maybe it might prove to you how much i have tried if you called to see my room and the letters of regret and courses I have done then you might think, jezz he is trying, but you’d rather say my attitude is wrong. Ever considered that you may also be wrong!!!! As for a new career, Im not stuck applying for just one sector. I have had to over the years train for different ones to ensure I got a job, (Factory-Textiles, Local Government – National Departments, Retail, C&V Sector, Hospitality) and again I could keep going…….
What I dont appreciate is you comment on “HARD WORK & ACTION”, but as you assume to know me better, then I’ll give you that one (ahemm)
Best Wishes…
Alan, again, you have entirely the wrong attitude. Yes, it’s horrible, hundreds of thousands of us have been there, scraping to get by, but what’s the point in writing about how hard it is? Anyone who has or is going through it knows what’s involved. What is more instructive is to do what I advised, find out where the vacancies are, pick what suits you best, of them, and then train up. If you can’t get a job now, you know you need to find a new career area. There are thousands applying for the factory, petrol pump, tesco, etc. jobs so it’s useless to wait around for something to show up. Go out there and re-train. Fas actually have lots of courses in IT, Construction, etc. and yoy can learn loads and loads and loads online, information wise. Also, bluebrick- come on, free university courses in science, IT, etc. You need to get onto something like that and get out of the rut, Hard work and action. Go for it. And like I said, I have chosen a lesser favourite area of mine BECAUSE there are opportunities there. What’s stopping you? You’re clearly not happy on the dole. Change it