I wish you were counting. The No vote would have carried by 76 votes!

All voting should be mandatory, with strict penalties for any not voting.

Sorry Billy, dropped it in straight from the stream, hence the quotation marks. I assume author must have mistyped on the numbers. It is 5 votes in it though, that is certain.

YES or NO? WHO CARES!!!
Some say ‘YES’ will give away our sovereignty and make us German eventually … Some say ‘NO’ will ruin our chances of a financial recovery and alienate Ireland from Europe.
All of it is horse manure – the real issue is how we use the power we do have here.
Maybe we are better off being German because we have failed to run our own country correctly, we elect FF, a centre party (IMO), or a party with centrism ideals … in other words fence sitters …. our other option is a coalition of FG and LAB which is a centre-right and a centre-left party respectively …. a combination which leaves us with a government forced to concede to centrism in order to get power together.
So, at the minute we vote either a party with centrism or a coalition that compromises on centrism …. That is fact!!!
It’s a joke, until we start to listen to political ideals of the other parties, and give them a chance then we are just left with the same crap and it has been that way since the foundation of the Dail.
Political parties are not football teams, you don’t have to be a die hard supporter, they are our public servants and if they can’t do the job let’s give somebody else a chance.
We have created a monster by turning our politics into a sport and supporting your ‘team’ whether they are winning or losing.
The term ‘floating voter’ is bandied around like it’s a negative thing… the term used should be independent (and more likely informed) voter.
IT’S NOT GAA, IT’S NOT SOCCER, IT’S NOT TIDDLYWINKS AND IT’S NOT YOUR SPOUSE – YOU ARE NOT MARRIED TO A POLITICAL PARTY….. IT’S YOUR NATION, IT’S YOUR LIFESTYLE AND THE LIFESTYLE OF YOUR FELLOW COUNTRYMEN AND WOMEN!!!
Use your own thoughts and assess your own needs before you vote on anything, otherwise you are making a mockery of democracy.
God,, I could rant on this forever!

I’ll always remember this day.Its the day Ireland as a free and self-determining country died.

800 years of British rule.80 years of Papal rule.10 years of Fianna Fail corruption and a future of perpetual debt run by foreigners whom we never even get to see or hold accountable.

Good thing I’m leaving…..

Totally agree Jennifer!

I find it interesting that so many give “thumbs down” to the idea of mandatory voting. It’s good to know that democracy has support here.

Good to see the Supporters Brigade are on here in force … keep the thumbs down coming …. sheep

Perhaps those “thumbs down” for mandatory voting could offer some reasons for their choice.

Need a calculator????! Lol

Apologies, wrote that too soon, just see your answer

@Doc Democracy mean you have the right to have you’re say you also have the right to say nothing its just as valid you’re suggestion is part of the communist philosophy and Australia sadly

@Doc Plus under the literal meaning Ireland is not a Democracy it’s a Republic there different thing (not sure if it qualifies as a Republic anymore )

@Jeff…..Certainly isn’t a republic……one of the main principles of a republic is sovereignty. We don’t own our seas or its produce, we don’t own our oil and gas, and we now won’t run how our money is spent and divided in this state.Also very soon we will not own all of our forests and our water and electrical systems will be sold off.

Essentially in the space of 5 years we have become an exponentially indebted province of Europe that has foreign agents meddling in our affairs and gaining from our increased poverty.People voted about money and maintaining their own wealth and not what was best for all of the people of Ireland.

@Doc, it’s a democracy, you don’t just have the right to choose your government, you have the right not to choose them! Whilst I would never advocate non voting personally i would defend the right of someone else not to bother if that’s what they chose.

Y E S !!!!!

isn’t it mad how just under half the country couldn’t give a flying fck one way or the other…. If they got a No we’d just be asked to vote again in a few months anyway…and again…and again untill they got their precious yes. It’s all bulshit… like the guy saying political parties are not football teams… I know people who vote FF or FG just because their fathers did. BS!

The Irish electorate as a whole do not know the first thing about politics – nor are they given any motivation to get involved. It should be taught at school from an early age, even once a week and school goers should be instrumental in forming their own views on how countries should be run. They should look at how other countries run and how they govern themselves.

France & Germany for instance have presidents who run the country in conjunction with a Prime Minister who is often head of the opposition. Obama has a Democratic Whitehouse but a Republican Congress. All of these major countries have polar/bi-partisan leaderships – the greatest minds in the world – we have gangsters like Bertie and Charlie, Biffo or Enda Kenny with sole charge – what chance do we have?

We have an antiquated system which was left by the Brits in 1922 and if you look closely enough you’ll probably find that today’s politicians are grandsons and daughters of those that started the Dail back in the day when they were too lazy to set out a structured govt. It was, and still is all about personal power. Keith Lenehen is right, our choice is Centre FF or a coalistion of Centre right FG and centre left labour equalling same old same old centre with everyone afraid to upset the applecart. Do you think politicians on 95 grand a year care about austerity?

Today’s Dail is about cronyism and nepatism and untill new blood gets in that’s all we’ll ever have – the old school tie etc – It’s all bullshit!

@Jeff. I can agree that one should have the choice to Not vote for any of the candidates on the ballot, however this important rejection is not accommodated for in our current system. Spoilt votes or non cast votes are simply ignored. This I feel leaves a lot of peoples choices also ignored. In the current context 50% of those that had a vote chose for whatever reason, not to cast their ballot. So actually the decision for all has been made by 25% of the people, hardly a huge majority there. I’m not advocating a particular system, just exploring what perhaps can be done to make our system more inclusive.

The problem with mandatory voting is that the government likes to have their referendums during the week so those of us who work in a different place to our home where are vote is may not be able to get home to vote!

@ Keith Lenehan
Your so called rant is probably the best comment I have read on the Journal. Ireland has always voted a FF or FG lead government.

I believe it was Einstein that said “madness is to keep doing the same thing over and over again but each time expecting a different result.”

Having lived a good part of my life in Australia I can tell you mandatory voting is not without problems. People vote just because they have to without thought and often took their cue from tabloid media, which are owned by 2 media giants – Murdoch and packer…… So if you were in politics and had one of these fine gents as a friend, you had it made. Compulsory voting in other words has many downsides and parties who shouldn’t have been in power have got in many times because of it

Thank you Noel and Gerry … @Noel, I’m not sure it’s the best post on the journal, but to me it seems logical and it angers me that we are our own worse enemies but throw the blame at Europe or whoever seems to be walking by, when in fact we have created a mess of the nation pretty much from the formation of the state… but again thanks for the compliment…. it’s appreciated.

Thumbs up from me. I was an ardent No and congratulated the Yes. Most in fairness are gracious in victory. Some though as u say are rubbing salt in the wounds. As are some on the No side.

It’s done now. It is what it is. Let’s hope Kenny means what he said about pushing for a bank debt deal

I have mixed feelings about it. The people have spoken. I have to respect the process and the decision.

It’s too soon for congratulations though. I hope the yes side is proven right, because our course is set now.

Appreciate that Karswell.

Well it’s not like it was a massive defeat. Only 51/49 to the no side. I’d say Labour will lose one of their seats there next time anyway, but referenda give us little or no indication of party support.

the ISEQ falls and rises everyday, doesn’t mean it’s related.

The markets tend to react to large events that affect the finances of the related country. Are you suggesting that this negative reaction has nothing whatsoever to do with the referendum?

It was on a bit of an up trend in the days before the referendum. If the Yes vote is splendiferous we’d expect the markets to respond positively, would we not?

Perhaps, but it still doesn’t mean that the ISEQ dropped exclusively for that reason.

Of course if the ISEQ had been rising all day we wouldn’t be able to move for people lauding that from the Yes side.

All I’m saying is that it didn’t rally as a result of the Yes vote. In fact it has been dropping all day, even while we’ve been having this conversation.

To be fair, the markets we more interested in the non farm payroll figures. These were weak hence the markets took a hit.

I could not agree with you more…. The biggest disgrace is that less than 25 percent of irelands entitled voters made this descission

You are probably echoing the thoughts of many. I suspect that if the result had gone the other way your views would have been just as valid.

Until the governmental leaders of the EU come together and agree a vision for Europe as recommended by Mario Draghi there is no way of telling what the Fiscal Treaty will achieve.

Generally the higher the turnout for a European referendum the more likely a positive result. It would almost certainly have been a yes even if we had 70% turnout.

Tell that to the 600,000 out of 1.5 million people who actually turned up and voted no, and I highly doubt 900,000 people voted yes because they approve of the current direction (from what I’ve been hearing loosing their pension was their motivation for voting yes, what happens when their pension/social welfare rates are slashed?)

On the No side: these are people who felt that had nothing to loose even with all the scaremongering, the Taoiseach + co should be worried by this.

I could be wrong, but for other referendum Taoisigh didn’t engage in one -on – one debates? If thats the case then the whole debate ‘debate’ was just an attempt by Ourselves Alone at self-promotion. What a surprise.

referenda!

He’s not a Taoiseach in my opinion he’s a traitor

Thank God Enda did not engage in debate. We will live with result but we would never get over the embarrassment

Mick – you nailed it. Too many of us already got nothing left to lose…

Or maybe they were quiet because their reasons for voting yes are hard to defend.

The “no side” hasn’t had a monopoly on name calling and low tactics.

Both sides were not bothered as reflected in the turnout. I do think student having been able to vote would have made a big difference…
Personally I do feel that the older generation shafted their grand children by voting yes fearing the in between generation would go NO.
Then again if you have your facculties and your limbs… there was no excuse not to make it to the ballot box between 7am and 10pm.

So come Decembers cuts with sone other excuse to give carrots friends a payrise…. More than half this country should suck it up….. you had your chance to vote either way

@censored – wasn’t suggesting a monopoly but I do realise I’m making unsubstantiated generalisations

Point proven LOL @ unapologetic FG sheep…..LOL

When has that ever happened? We can all make stuff up.

Well troll, you live under a bridge with your head buried in the sand so i’m not surprised you don’t know about the salary cap breaches…obviously you have access to the internet so google is your friend…try it.

They have found another comments section to call home, one in which there are far fewer differences of opinion.

Greece, Portugal and Slovenia have ratified it. We’re next. Once 12 of 17 eurozone members ratify it, it law. Will be an odd situation if 12 weaker smaller eurozone members ratify it and germany and France do not

But all the rabble rousing and scaremongering by the yes side got them the result Angela merkel wanted.

Don’t be doing a Fine gael and translating this result as a commitment to a dying currency and an acceptance that FG’s cowardice is the way forward when it just confirms us as a laughing stock and whipping boys..Ireland – the country that takes on foreign debt and asks for nothing in return..
Enjoy your success in conning and threatening one third of the population into more secession of power to the unnamed, unelected cartels….pat yourself on the back that you and your sort have after less than a century of nationhood simply handed it away and……hold up, you’re a troll…your comments mean nothing and as usual they’re inane and unintellectual…..

Yeah they should take a leaf out of your book and sell out their country to Europe.

How do those sour grapes taste?

Donegal is part of the Border Midlands and West region which gets extra preference for EU funds because of its economic disadvantage. Their consistent rejection of EU treaties is incredibly misinformed.

@Daniel
You’ve been on here making idiotic, arrogant and gloating statements all morning. It doesn’t reflect well on you personally and it does your party a huge disservice to be associated with your attitudes.
Sorry, but someone had to say it.

@mattoid, his statements are usually based on facts and analysis. Unlike yours just now. I don’t know the guy, but he’s been perfectly reasonable, and get tonnes of abuse. Pot kettle?

yeah jerry, we should fence off the place and starve them, the cheek of them!!! Maybe make the losing no side wear some kind of badge or star? thats a real blueshirt response.

you know it’s people like you that’s got this country the way it is.What’s in it for Me…? brigade..my initial response when the results came in was disappointment.But maybe in the next couple of month’s when the sh1t really hits the proverbial wall..you Will be looking for the backing of the Donegal and the people who could see through the GOVERNMENTAL SPIN.
DUB

Id rather Donegal folk stay the same, the kindest warmest and most sincere people in Ireland.

@Donncha
Presumably also unlike yours just now too, while we’re on the subject of pots and kettles? ;)

Seriously though, here are a sample of some of Daniel’s other ‘reasonable’ comments from this morning that are ‘based on facts and analysis’:

“I know! I am loving it! I have the biggest smile on my face right now!” (about the absence of a prominent no commenter from the Journal today)…

“Off to the pub with you, if you get tired of begrudging you welcome to hang out with me and my mates, we’ll be celebrating”…

“Indeed we won, they lost. Haters gonna hate!”…

And to another no voter: “Be honest you don’t want a job, you want a hand out.”…

Thats the arrogant and gloating attitude I was talking about. I’m a yes voter myself (albeit a reluctant one), but I don’t see the yes vote as something that is worthy of happiness or celebration, far less any smugness, gloating or rubbing the no voter’s noses in the dirt. I certainly don’t see a ‘them and us’ scenario between the different ‘sides’.

The vote is now complete, the people have spoken and we must move on to a difficult future together. Whatever the outcome of the vote there was always going to be a lot of pain and austerity ahead of us, whether we like it or not. Its now time to start pulling together instead of deepening any divisions.

What the EU has taken from Donegal outweighs what it has given back in petty subsidies. The infrastructure is amongst some of the poorest in the country, so is broadband coverage and health services. This doesn’t sound like a county thats being invested in or encouraged to prosper economically.
Why are Donegal people always voting no?
You may or may not remember that Ireland generously relinquished control of its fishing grounds to the EU. Why? We were not a rich country but we were rich in natural resources. Donegal being a large coastal county was severely negatively impacted by this. In recent years Irish fishermen have been forced to stand idly by watching what used to be their waters nearly depleted by EU member trawlers. Irish fishermen faced fines and prison sentences if they went over their own meager quotas. The last time these sort of laws were in place was under British Colonial Rule and exacerbated the Irish genocide also known as the Irish Famine.
Billions of euro worth of fish have since been caught in what used to be Irish waters. Norway will not even join the EU as they are not willing to relinquish their waters.

Further EU laws now outlaw the mechanical cutting of peat for fuel on our own land as it is harming the natural habitat of protected species. I do agree that certain areas should be preserved but this leaves us with the predicament of what to do for fuel and generally the cheapest or only option is to buy it from other EU member states and corporations.

If the people of Donegal vote no it is to protect its people from further hardship and the surrendering of our political power to make our own specific laws that benefit our citizens.

Up here we have brains and are not like sheep that voted yes. Wake up and see what’s goin on around u instead of talkin rubbish. Oh. Btw can’t wait for this recovery. When does it start? After bank holiday Monday? Zzzzzzz

Well said.

Yeah real smart up there. Hence the all those thriving industries… Oh, hang on……

@Daniel, sour grapes have a habit of fermenting, this creates gas , gas can explode, dangerous situation, .

That might not be entirely incorrect in the short-term. Which of the current crop of career-politicians would you choose to run the country?

None. Am beginning to think I should have voted yes along with them – for that reason

I’ve heard the same. I’m not sure whether to cry or laugh.

They do not represent the Yes side. Nor, do they speak on behalf of the country. It was merely their opinion. Know the difference.

That was one of the main issues that changed my preference from No to Yes. If I believed that there were politicians competent and civic-minded enough to take charge and steer Ireland on a better course, my preference would have remained No. As it is, we have replaced a corrupt government for an ineffective and cowardly one. If this government collapsed, the alternatives seem to me to be only more ineffective. I do not want A government other than an Irish government administrating national policy, but any administration is better than none at all.

Go on ahead, at least they wont be bailing out the bankers

What? Because the way they voted does not agree with majority? Grow up.

We are denied funding anyway…seen the roads up here recently?

Please yes but do not tax them or their children(‘s children) for the interest

I guess Tongue In Cheek doesn’t really translate that well in TheJournal comments section…

It was a silly comment.

I bet the people of Donegal and those parts of Dublin which were smart enough to say enough is enough would only be delighted to be “denied funding”.

That funding has to be paid for you know. It doesn’t come for free.

hope you can afford the ticket bye bye !!

Did you find out why fine Gael were deleting people’s comments and opinion’s from their Facebook page, you choose to ignore me the last two times I asked you and I’d appreciate an answer.

Dublin south may brace themselves for a proportionate amount of austerity now, no point them wealthy people voting yes and still remain immune to FG’s failed austerity.

http://www.thejournal.ie/450-irish-rail-workers-to-be-asked-to-take-voluntary-redundancy-472019-Jun2012/

This must be a hoax, sure didn’t enda assure us this treaty would prevent job losses.

David?

Dermot when you say “them wealthy people”, what exactly are you trying to say? Is it meant as an insult? “Them wealthy people” forget the incorrect grammar inherent in it and lets analyse your point. “them wealthy people” so TAX PAYING CITIZENS. So, those people who pay for the (admittedly shoddy) welfare state that we have? “them people” is it?

Said with tongue firmly in cheek…ummm – whats your name?…enoughof this already..????

Thanks for the grammar lesson but you’re a new troll account so I don’t really care what you think…say or for your grammatical corrections to any of my comments.

Donegal north and south rather! Ha

Give it a rest and stop parroting Boyd Barrett. The majority have spoken…now move on

You say that like the fear side never used scare tactics, in fact the no side thrived on them.
‘ Austerity forever if you vote yes’ and other such crap was what was sceached

Just proves that stupidity really runs free on this beautiful island!

Ouch sore loser

A friend of mine said that the Irish people would never allow foreign money-lenders to makes decisions about how his country is run, he voted “yes”, now he knows the facts , he is a very embarressed young man.

what are you on about? It’s not democracy when you don’t like the result.
We’re too bloody democratic in this country if you ask me.
Barely 50% turned out in an referendum the public supposedly demanded.

Too democratic- how very FG/EU of you

How is the EU killing democracy? By forcing Ireland to have a referendum? By forced EU countries to have elections in which left-wing politicians come into power?

Yes, hang on a second, if the EU was killing democracy in Europe, would we have had a referendum in the first place? You sound a bit like a sore loser.

“The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.” Churchill.

Some of the bs put forward here (and elsewhere) is a case in point.

In 6 months we see what the arrogant ginger and his blueshirts come up with next….

The likes of DD sais enough about their arrogance.

Shepherd.

I’m still waiting on the mandatory European Army that was promised by the No side a few years back.

@seanbag
I think you’ll find that all of those issues raised by the no side were address and hence we voted again. Does it not annoy you how many lies fine Gael told us before the last election??

Ha ha. Nice one @Seanbeag

I’d say more are still waiting for all these jobs FFG promised during Lisbon, i’d say they’re still waiting patiently for the “bigger voice”…still waiting for the day when Germany and the bigger countries stop telling the rest what to do….still waiting for the stability and investment.

Directed to the seanbeag/fintan hynes jolly boys.

easy now, tiger, shhhhhhhhhh!

Worry not Gagsy, this movie is about to commence. I have my popcorn and jellies, I’ve turned off the phone and taken off my shoes.

Thankfully I can watch the show from another continent, and today I thank my lucky stars that my entire family had to leave Ireland in the eighties to make a life elsewhere. Where would I be now without dual nationality……..I’d be stuck in a fly by the seat of your pants style democracy run by unelected representatives that reside in an office block in Brussels.

What was it Joan said on the box the other night, “we’re going to pool our sovereignty”

Can’t wait, apparently they’re going to raise taxes to 150% of income, and then the Dail is going to move to Brussels, and then all Irish people are going to be kept in chains for eternity.

@William, as a Yes voter, I think we actually prised the coffin open a bit. But don’t let my opinion draw you away from your doom laden thoughts. Anyways, its the Chinese vans you need to keep an eye out for.

As a country with the one of the highest social welfare payments, I think it’s about time they were cut like every other sector has been. I think everyone is being a bit dramatic anyway, as if the yes vote means we’ll become equivalent to a third world country.

Agreed. Ireland has been sold out. Europe won’t give a damn about us. Germany is only looking out for itself. Pity we didn’t do the same. I’m ashamed of this country. Spineless and dumb to the fact that we gave our voice away. We no longer control our future

@Donncha
A van by any other name would take as much

People need to start being more grateful to Europe, instead of constantly portraying them as these totalitarian Nazis or some other BS. Ever heard of not looking a gift horse in the mouth? The fact of the matter is we need Europe to help us get out the hole we’re in, so please put aside your pride and get over this stupid, over-dramatic sentiment about how we’re gonna become the b*tch of Europe. Seriously.

@Alison… yeah lets cut the social welfare and drive the poor into further poverty,,…sure while we are at it…why don’t we just kill them…they are a burden on the state…yeah just kill them…

The yes vote has given away our economic sovereignty to a foreign power (ESM) so technically we are a third world country but I’m sure your proud of yourself anyway…you and your Pinot Grigio quaffing chums can have a good laugh and collective sigh later that you cushy jobs are still in tact…..

@Anus, or whatever your name is supposed to be. Why is it that everytime someone mentions cuts to the social welfare payments (might I add, payments FAR in excess of any other country in the EU, probably one of the highest in the world – more than the minimum wage in Spain!) that you get these lefties spouting off crap and over-dramatising your statement in order to make their point more poignant (I thought you guys disliked the use of propoganda? Hypocrite much?) Oh and I love the wine statement. Oh so relevant to the point I made.

In fact, I’m glad you replied because you’ve completely just made my point. Stop with the dramatics! Comparing cutting welfare payments to genocide? Seriously?!

Might I add that you have NO idea who I am, what I do or where I come from, and I can tell you it’s far from the cushy life you’ve envisaged so I would stop with the presumptious sh*t while you’re at it. I’m just a bit more realistic, I guess, so sorry if that makes me an elitist.

Avarus your a perfect example as to why people don’t take the no side seriously when you come out with class warfare bullshit like that.

@Alison …..getting annoyed there are we? ha ha now you’ve made me glad….

@ Anus. Very mature. Certainly the person I would come to for advice on political issues. I hope you make president some day!

You can’t diss someone for immaturity while calling them “Anus”.

Avarus, you sprout some nonsense. Above you were talking about “the day Ireland as a free and self-determining country died” when people “self-determined” to vote Yes to the Treaty.
Now you are attacking Alison for suggesting it is time to look at welfare payments. They consistently went up and up during boom time. Boom time is over, and as with benchmarking, certain spending needs to be reassessed.
That you engage in such wild conjecture as “yeah just kill them” is plainly ridiculous.

And finally, the YES vote did not “give our economic sovereignty to a foreign power” the ESM is a mechanism (clue is in the name), not a power. Neither are we a third world country, though we would be if the NOs had their way.

But your “Pinot Grigio quaffing chums” and “cushy jobs” slurs are my particular favourites. Would you perhaps like some salt and vinegar with that chip??.

Alison the abuse is standard fare. Last time Avarus couldn’t actually argue the point with me, he/she (who knows) decided instead to call me “flat-chested”*. Profound I know.

*Worth nothing Avarus afterwards claimed to have been Fraped, though judging by subsequent comments I am somewhat dubious of this.

@Jennifer I was fraped so whether you are dubious or not I couldn’t care less, your going to believe what you want anyway.

How can people make an honest decision when they were threatened with all sorts?In regards to the ESM we will see where the power lies when Ireland has to slash its way to pay the ESM and in particular French and German bondholders.You know Europe is not equal and controlled primarily by Germany yet you want to remain part of its pseudo democratic system. Some people are so naive and quite frankly I have better things to be doing so good luck.

Jennifer, if you read Articles 32-36 of the ESM Treaty (NOT the one we’ve passed a Referendum on), you’ll realise that it IS being set up as an UNLIMITED POWER unto itself (whether foreign or not), and will be utterly inviolable and immune from any judicial, legislative or regulatory process.

Ah Avarus. Have seen this before. You don’t agree, so the other is “naive”. Did it ever cross you mind that maybe you are naive?

To be perfectly honest I was really angry yesterday…probably said a few things I shouldn’t have…petty things, just want Ireland to be respected again by both outsiders and us Irish ourselves…..

The burning bush very well put sir…….

Wow, this lies could be in a story book, it’s so colourful. Please point out to me exactly where in this treaty is said power would be ceded to Europe. Please, I seem to have missed it. Your comment is pathetic.

Did u read the amendment before u voted? Clearly not. I was there in black and white in front of u.

Pathetic means a lot of things to a lot of people. Allowing a bureaucrat in Brussels to install a coin operated toll booth at your front door is kinda up there with the best of it for me this week. I love that. I enjoy electing political parties that all but break their necks to sell off parts of the constitution in exchange for an oul rub on the noggin and a croissant.

We won’t need that one. If bodies competent under the Treaty deem that necessary for is to meet the terms of the fiscal compact agreement, they have only to pass a law that says that. Article 1 and 2 are wide open under this amendment

No, Brussels would not want to take such a potential disaster under their wing. I see no annexing of Greece by a shadowy Bond-villain led cabal. If the truth would be told, they would rather wash their hands of us.

Again blatant lies. Nowhere in this treaty did it say that power would be seized by the EU. If after the no side loses they continue making stuff up, it’s pathetic.

Or Lynton, we could just keep living beyond our means? Sensible? No. Not even a little bit.

The obsolete Dail comment doesn’t warrant a rebuff.

Arch – you must be well chuffed today after your president Von Rumpey thanked all 900.000 + of you for your commitment to EU integration.

The run of stories on TheJournal.ie – as regular readers will know – is chronological. The latest breaking news is always at the top of the run and has nothing to do with its importance. At this moment in time (21.20), the theft of a priceless artefact is at the top, then the death of two people in Cork (both of which we just received notification of from the gardai) and then an analysis we have of the numbers in the vote today.
We spent 8 hours liveblogging the referendum count today which you can read back here – http://jrnl.ie/471062 – and there are several other pieces on the referendum on the site today. Go to http://www.thejournal.ie homepage to see the prominence we gave it.
We also carried out an information project to ask people what exactly they needed to understand about the wording of the treaty and spent a lot of time and effort getting answers from two independent outlets as well as from the Yes and No camp – http://jrnl.ie/467895
If you click on this link – http://www.thejournal.ie/referendum/news/ – you will see the extent and breadth of our reporting on the referendum over the past weeks.
We have never expressed any editorial preference for the Yes or No site and have prided ourselves on bringing as impartial a tone of reporting as possible to proceedings (unlike many printed outlets which all expressed preferences in editorials this week).
The Read Me section gave voice to both sides also – in fact, on Tuesday, we made an express effort to give a platform to op-eds from both Enda Kenny and Gerry Adams to make sure that the last contributions to the debate on our site were balanced.
Your slurs against my colleagues and I are not appreciated and can I suggest that if you don’t like TheJournal.ie, you save yourself the stress of reading it.
Thank you, Susan Daly, Editor, TheJournal.ie

Pressed red by accident, sorry Susan I’m awful on the iPad! TheJournal has been an excellent source of impartial advice throughout this whole referendum, providing great access to both sides of the argument that may not have been available otherwise. Thanks for that! It helped me in deciding how to vote, but I won’t be splashing that all over here, it’s done now.

Thanks Lisa – and don’t worry about the red button – I think we have them placed too closely together!

get my irish news from 2 places the journal and the BBC none of the rest is impartial or tries to sweep your attention away from what matters! Great job Susan keep it up!!

What positive result, if any, do you expect to gain with this kind of vitriol?

Our lot in Ireland improved immensely once we nit only admitted but celebrated the fact that ” romantic Ireland’s dead and gone”. Was it really better to have a wealthy landed upper class presiding over an under-educated poverty stricken peasant class? Yeats was no hero to Ireland, Yeats was a hanger-on of the elite who dabbled in the many ragged edges of his society; republican politics, elite esoteric societies, frantic imagery and ideology, but was far too venial and cowardly to ever commit to any of these causes. He was a yes-man, an archetypical crony.

Do you really think his archetypal fisherman wanted the lifestyle that he had? The swans at Coole were not wild. They were tended to by the groundskeepers of the aristocracy because they added to n aesthetically pleasing view.

Romantic Ireland is best left buried. It was not, in reality, a pleasant episode of our history.

“Was it really better to have a wealthy landed upper class presiding over an under-educated poverty stricken peasant class?”

And how things have changed :P

fecking farmers

Never going to accept, that you, Spud, are in the fringe. If that many NOs existed, they would have been out. You very basis is that YES voters care more,,,,,please tell me even you see that therein lies the fact?

YES= INFORMED AND WILLING TO VOTE
NO= RABID AGROS/ NOT BOTHERED.

I think that settles it.

So the people of Ireland exercise their democratic right and vote yes, and somehow that’s the death of democracy? Hmmmm, ok

@ sean s the Germans voted there democracy away in the 1930’s

Oxymoron of The Century

Why does every analogy eventually find it’s way back to Nazi Germany. What happened then is more akin to us voting in SF or ULA or some other relatively extremist party, and that party then riding it’s popular support and making sweeping changes of its own initiative, which in certain limited circumstances, will always be a possibility in any democracy (not just for for SF or the ULA). And in either case, the treaty is more an issue of sovereignty, not democracy, the two are not necessarily mutually inclusive.

it wasnt intentionally referring to the nazi’s i was simply stating that other countries have voted their democracy away with out realising they had done so the gremans in the 1930s just happened to be the example that came to mind

@Sean
Its a recognised phenomenon known as ‘Godwin’s Law’:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law

Domocracy? Rule by the house?

By which I mean the YES side has won the battle…but may yet regret losing the war. Which is being waged against all of us (most of us?) by the few who have just added another tool to the the kit for endebting us and enwealthing themselves.

I say this with the greatest of sadness, because in my view, the majority of YES voters and all of the NO voters are pretty much all in this together…and this referendum is among many things that prevents us from seeing that fact.

The Dubs not witting the All-Ireland between 1996 and 2011 – rigged
Willie O’Dea and his luxuriously bushy moustache continuosly topping the poll in Limerick – rigged
That promotion I didn’t get – rigged
Me not winning the lotto last weekend – rigged
Dropping my 99 just as I walked away from the ice-cream van – rigged

No, wait a minute, I’m confusing the word ‘rigged’ with ‘outcomes that disappointed me’.

Ha gagsy 99 I love it!

While we are at. The fact I was born bovine, and not human, was clearly, on balance, a rigg.

What’s the basis for this comment?

As a yes voter – I didn’t in anyway find the journal biased. I found the majority of comments were from No supporters (and us Yes voters got a lot of red thumbs for any pro-treaty comments) but that’s a different proposition than declaring the journal as biased.